I'd like to see an option for the 15mm in the hanger for the 109F-4. :aok
The MG151\15 had everything from solid ball rounds, AP with Karbid core, to HE with fuse. So can you research a bit farther into what the early 109 F2 was loaded with? The Hs129 had these using AP rounds with karbid core.I'd bet HE. That makes the most sense against aircraft. The Brits even tried to load the .303s with HE, to some mild success.
I've always...Wanted to fly the 109F-2 with the MG-151/15.
I'd bet HE. That makes the most sense against aircraft. The Brits even tried to load the .303s with HE, to some mild success.
| Caliber Nominal | 15 mm (0.591 in) | Length (overall) | 75 1/2 in |
| Bore | Barrel | ||
| No. of grooves | 8 | Weight | 23 lb 14 oz |
| Pitch | 1 turn in 16in | Length (Overall) | 49 1/4 in |
| Direction | Right Handed | Rate of fire; | |
| Weight Including Electronic Control Device | 84 lbs 1 oz | AP | 740RPM |
| HE | 640RPM |
| [th][/th] [th]MG151/15[/th] [th]MG151/20[/th] | ||
| Lenth (Barrel) | 49 1/4 in | 43 1/2 in |
| Weight (Barrel) | 23 lb 14 oz | 22 lb 14 oz |
| Pitch (Rifling) | 1 turn in 16in | 1 turn in 23 in |
| Groove (Width) | .157 in | .210 in |
| Groove (Depth) | .009 in | .0105 in |
| Length (Overall) | 75 1/2 in | 69 5/8 in |
| Weight (Overall) | 84 lbs 1 oz | 93 1/2 lb |
Didn't JG 11 in FW190 A5 use R1 twin MG151/15 under wing packs for awhile in 1943? That would be an interesting bomber destroyer over towns, and a heck of a snap shot window to fly through on the deck. If you like those kinds of lufty thingies.
I do not speak fluent German, but I did notice a section devoted to the conversion process between the two (It is more complex than a barrel swap, but from the looks of things still pretty easy to do.)
Bf109G-4 with center-line, fuselage mounted Mg151/20E Gondola
Why not the /15, but pl who wants it must remember how unefficient it will be against 1942-1945 planes (not mentionning 95% of bombers) ! :salute
I think it's efficiency will depend on what part of the planes you usually aim for. According to the charts, even the Standard AP munitions have better armor penetration than Hispano 20mms. If you are like me and aim for people cockpits I would argue that Armor Penetration is more important then Explosiveness. However for things like taking of somebodies wing or control surface, explosiveness is much much better. As far as engines go (For bombers), I think its a toss up, with the AP more likely to cause damage, but the more explosive 20mm more likely to make that thing well...Explode.
If they modeled in the Hartkernmunitions, you could probably hit a B17 in the tail, and your bullet would go straight through the cockpit (Okay I lied, it probably wouldn't, but a man can dream!). 48mm at 100 yards, is nearly 2 inches of armor penetration, at 300m you are still getting over 1.5 inches of armor penetration. As far as I know, that will blast through any Pilots Armor Plate and place his brains all over the windscreen, as well as provide a potent and deadly accurate Anti-Tank weapon. At 1,030m/s you are looking at a straighter arc than the American .50 Cals, with nearly double the armor penetration.
There is no doubt in my mind that the Mg151/15 was an absolute beast. The reasons for the Mg151/20 superseding the /15 is most likely because of the reason I stated above, most aircraft wings and control surfaces weren't heavily armored, so having more explosive power would have a much more devastating shot, also coupled with the fact that most WWII pilots most likely had worse aim than most players with 200,000 hours of flight in this game, made the 20mm a better choice.
As the war continued, Allied Armor on planes increased. I have a hunch that back in 1940, and 1941, the /15 variant was prone to over penetration, and it may have actually performed better on the better armored late war bombers.
Another thing to note is that the 109F series does not make use of the 13mm Mg131, it is equipped with the Mg17 which has a muzzle velocity of 900m/s, which is almost perfectly harmonized with the Mg151/15 HE rounds carrying a muzzle velocity of 960m/s. Yes, I understand that the Mg17 is fairly useless, but that near perfect harmonization could have actually given the 15mm cannon a slight edge over its 20mm counterpart. All and all, I think the Germans jumped the gun a bit on abandoning the 15mm for the 20mm.
Just imagine 4 Mg151/15's on a FockeWulf, it would be like having 6-8 American .50 calls at your disposal because the even more accurate (Heavier with equivalent or greater velocity) with twice the armor penetration (Don't know about the HE properties of the American .50cal.. Did they even have HE's?) but it is likely even superior in that aspect as well, not to mention the firing rates of the Mg151/15 and the AN/M2 are nearly on par with one another, the AN/M2 having a slight advantage. Like I said, I think the Germans jumped the gun on their decision to switch over to the Mg151/20.
All in all you are probably right however. The Mg151/20 was probably a better fit for the Bf109 without Rüstsatz modifications, or later war series with the 13mm Mg131 (For Harmonization Purposes). But I think the Mg151/15 would have been a better choice for the multiple cannon configuration seen in the FW190s, or a Gondola equipped 109. But really, I think it would come down to a pilots preference on which gun he liked more, and would still like to see the option available for the 109F, even if it does prove to be inferior to the 151/20
And there were also pilots who were extremely dissatisfied with the MG151/15's poor firepower coming from the Bf 109E, despite its vastly superior ballistic properties. It was simply much too much underpowered going past.... about the time it was phased out, at the latest.
In AH, aircraft armor does not exist, as far as i know. Each part has an amount of hit moint and each round decreases those hit points - if they hit. A part with 0 hp falls off.
Again, as far as i know.
It would be lackluster with any modeling that was anything like realistic. It was a lackluster weapon, hence its rapid replacement in service by the Germans.
On the subject of penetration, do you have any documentation that puts the MG151/15's relevant air-to-air rounds as having a significant advantage in penetration over the MG151/20, let alone any other 20mm autocannon, or are you just making judgments based on muzzle velocity (compare to, for example, the Hispano 20mm, which fired a much, much heavier round at even higher velocities)?
Also, as far as aircraft armor goes, I don't believe that much of it went any further than having a small several-millimeter-thick steel plate in front of particularly-vulnerable components (such as the pilot) from particularly-vulnerable angles. Old 1940s aircraft engines, especially radials, were fairly rugged though.
Having said that, I have to mirror this statement.