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Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Lucifer on March 27, 2014, 03:33:17 PM

Title: blackout system bugged
Post by: Lucifer on March 27, 2014, 03:33:17 PM
<S>

After hitting 3-4 times the "blackout" zone when doing several high speed manovers, u suddenly cant get out of it for 30s instead of 1-5, even if u stopped turning. Seems "touching" several times the blackout zone (slightly and for 1 sec), it fulfill some kind of arcade gauge that suddenly decides its full and send u 30s in blackout instead of 1-3 sec...

 :bhead
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: FLS on March 27, 2014, 03:37:47 PM
That's not a bug it's a feature. AH models tunnel vision, blackout, and G-LOC. Blackout is just vision and has a quick recovery. G-LOC, loss of conciousness, takes longer to recover.
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Zoney on March 27, 2014, 03:43:15 PM
<S>

After hitting 3-4 times the "blackout" zone when doing several high speed manovers, u suddenly cant get out of it for 30s instead of 1-5, even if u stopped turning. Seems "touching" several times the blackout zone (slightly and for 1 sec), it fulfill some kind of arcade gauge that suddenly decides its full and send u 30s in blackout instead of 1-3 sec...

 :bhead

Very good, you have observed and described what happens with High G maneuvers.  Now that you know how it works, it should be easier to avoid those prolonged blackouts.

Does anyone else smell sulphur?              :devil
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Skuzzy on March 27, 2014, 03:54:51 PM
The amount of time the black out lasts is commensurate with the amount of stress the pilot has endured.
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Lucifer on March 27, 2014, 04:14:22 PM
Agree, except its illogic 3 times x 1 sec lil blackout -separated ofc- suddenly leads to 30 s.... irl blackout is the blood pressure in brain : how comes suddenly, with same manover, its rising by 600% ingame ?!  :lol

The amount of time the black out lasts is commensurate with the amount of stress the pilot has endured.
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: FLS on March 27, 2014, 04:27:59 PM
Agree, except its illogic 3 times x 1 sec lil blackout -separated ofc- suddenly leads to 30 s.... irl blackout is the blood pressure in brain : how comes suddenly, with same manover, its rising by 600% ingame ?!  :lol


You are comparing two different things. The visual blackout and unconciousness. They occur separately irl.

Also consider pilot fatigue. Repeated high g lowers your limits.
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Wiley on March 27, 2014, 04:47:50 PM
You are comparing two different things. The visual blackout and unconciousness. They occur separately irl.

Also consider pilot fatigue. Repeated high g lowers your limits.

Is that actually modeled?  I was always under the impression it went more along the lines of 5.9G's ok, as many times as you want to.  6G's short blackout 6.2G's long blackout (number specifics pulled directly from Thin Airtm).

I can't say I've ever noticed the guy actually getting tired.  The one thing I have noticed is if you have a short blackout and immediately pull a high G maneuver you get a long blackout pretty much every time.

Wiley.
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Skuzzy on March 27, 2014, 05:00:58 PM
Is that actually modeled?  I was always under the impression it went more along the lines of 5.9G's ok, as many times as you want to.  6G's short blackout 6.2G's long blackout (number specifics pulled directly from Thin Airtm).

I can't say I've ever noticed the guy actually getting tired.  The one thing I have noticed is if you have a short blackout and immediately pull a high G maneuver you get a long blackout pretty much every time.

Wiley.

Basically, a pilot gets X amount of time in a blackout condition (this is cumulative).  Once that time has been exceeded, the pilot goes unconscious.  Recovery is based on the amount of time not in a blackout condition.

Each time the pilot blacks out, the recovery can be longer if you do those blackouts close together.
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Arlo on March 27, 2014, 05:09:54 PM
So .... when ya gonna fix this 'bug?'  ;)
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: FLS on March 27, 2014, 05:29:56 PM
Is that actually modeled?  I was always under the impression it went more along the lines of 5.9G's ok, as many times as you want to.  6G's short blackout 6.2G's long blackout (number specifics pulled directly from Thin Airtm).

I can't say I've ever noticed the guy actually getting tired.  The one thing I have noticed is if you have a short blackout and immediately pull a high G maneuver you get a long blackout pretty much every time.

Wiley.

Pilot fatigue is not modeled in the sense that the pilot gets tired but the G stress is cumulative.  Blackout and unconciousness look the same but are different conditions. That's why you can maneuver blacked out but not when unconcious. AH models tunnel vision, blackout, and G-LOC.
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Wiley on March 27, 2014, 06:31:26 PM
Basically, a pilot gets X amount of time in a blackout condition (this is cumulative).  Once that time has been exceeded, the pilot goes unconscious.  Recovery is based on the amount of time not in a blackout condition.

Each time the pilot blacks out, the recovery can be longer if you do those blackouts close together.

Thanks!  One related question- looking through the "tunnel" count or only when the acreen is completely dark?

Wiley.
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: XxDaSTaRxx on March 27, 2014, 07:46:49 PM
So .... when ya gonna fix this 'bug?'  ;)
Two Weeks.  :)
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: BnZs on March 27, 2014, 08:15:59 PM
I think they are trying to penalize constant heavy G in some small way because you don't feel what a real pilot does under such stress: Pain. That is a limiting factor even before G-loc/loss of vission is reached.
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: TequilaChaser on March 27, 2014, 08:20:42 PM
Thanks!  One related question- looking through the "tunnel" count or only when the acreen is completely dark?

Wiley.

Hey Wiley,
What we call "riding the tunnel" or more specifically pulling high G maneuvering without completely blacking out the screen... Say 3" down to even a 1/2" diameter size eyehole / window to see through, will not count towards AH's accumulating effect....
 
One has to pull into a full screen blackout, then do it again and again for G-Loc to take affect...

FLS and Skuzzy both have explained how it works and how it can be a short few seconds blackout all the way upwards of even 20, 30 or more seconds... More often then not, a player who pulls to many excessive G's, in quick or rapid succession will likely regain conciousness while looking out the tower windows...

Hope this helps

TC
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Lucifer on March 27, 2014, 08:37:02 PM
Here comes the arcade gauge i was talkin about and suspecting :5x lil blackout = 6th becomes 30s sleep, even if the blackouts werent sustended (for me) : i only TRIGERRED 5 times the blackout system, so the gauge considered next time it was sleeping time : il2 and even WT got realistic blackout systems : it might be time for AH to upgrade their system too and get rid of the arcade gauge.... :rock

Basically, a pilot gets X amount of time in a blackout condition (this is cumulative).  Once that time has been exceeded, the pilot goes unconscious.  Recovery is based on the amount of time not in a blackout condition.

Each time the pilot blacks out, the recovery can be longer if you do those blackouts close together.
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: TequilaChaser on March 27, 2014, 09:12:48 PM
Here comes the arcade gauge i was talkin about and suspecting :5x lil blackout = 6th becomes 30s sleep, even if the blackouts werent sustended (for me) : i only TRIGERRED 5 times the blackout system, so the gauge considered next time it was sleeping time : il2 and even WT got realistic blackout systems : it might be time for AH to upgrade their system too and get rid of the arcade gauge.... :rock


I recommend that you provide a film of your testing/experimenting with figuring that AH has what you call an arcade gauge... It is not a gauge at all...

Post a link to your film here for us to review...

Also, if you think there is a bug or problem, HTC can take your film and pull probably 99% more data from it than what any of us can get by visually reviewing it....

Hope this helps

TC
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Arlo on March 28, 2014, 01:18:05 AM
Here comes the arcade gauge i was talkin about and suspecting :5x lil blackout = 6th becomes 30s sleep, even if the blackouts werent sustended (for me) : i only TRIGERRED 5 times the blackout system, so the gauge considered next time it was sleeping time : il2 and even WT got realistic blackout systems : it might be time for AH to upgrade their system too and get rid of the arcade gauge.... :rock


Lucy .... pay attention:

"a pilot gets X amount of time (which you confuse for number of times) in a blackout condition (this is cumulative).  Once that time has been exceeded, the pilot goes unconscious.  Recovery is based on the amount of time not in a blackout condition (which means your virtual pilot's body will recover if G stress stops - over a period of time."

(If only your true physical body could be measured and individually applied to an algorithm. You may be more frustrated than you are now.)

Now read:

http://avstop.com/AC/AC91-61.html

Then feel free to keep going on about the 'arcade gauge' you're imagining. (Or, better yet, swallow that pride and admit the thread you're trying to defend was baseless.)  :aok

P.S. IL2 forums have the developers admitting that they play with the G-Loc settings in a rather haphazard and arbitrary manner (even going so far as to turn them off, entirely). WT basically panders to the arcade customer.
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Lucifer on March 28, 2014, 02:27:57 AM
Yes it is, whatever name u ll use, its the same system : its called an arcade gauge.

Try IL2 or WT, u ll understand what i mean.

I recommend that you provide a film of your testing/experimenting with figuring that AH has what you call an arcade gauge... It is not a gauge at all...

Post a link to your film here for us to review...

Also, if you think there is a bug or problem, HTC can take your film and pull probably 99% more data from it than what any of us can get by visually reviewing it....

Hope this helps

TC
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Vudu15 on March 28, 2014, 02:40:25 AM
IL2 is random at best there is no set way the blackouts occur it just happens. You don't ease into greyout then tunnel vision you just black out. and Warthunder.....please bud that game and "realism" should almost never be used in the same sentence. Except in the instance Warthunder is not realistic.
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Skuzzy on March 28, 2014, 06:33:35 AM
Thanks!  One related question- looking through the "tunnel" count or only when the acreen is completely dark?

Wiley.

The "tunnel" does not count towards g-loc (unconscious).
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Mongoose on March 28, 2014, 12:52:04 PM
   Skuzzy's explanation makes sense.  Blackout is caused by lack of oxygen to the brain, which is caused by the g forces pulling blood away from the brain and into the lower body.  Blackout long enough, and you lose consciousness, until enough blood flows back to the brain to replenish the oxygen, and you wake up.  The more time you spend out of a blackout condition, the more oxygen gets back into the brain.   There is a formula in the game that mimics this effect.

  Picture a tank with oxygen in it.  When you pull heavy g's, past a certain point, the oxygen gets pulled out of the tank.  When the g's are relaxed, the oxygen flows back into the tank.  When the tank is empty, or nearly so, the pilot blacks out, until enough oxygen flows back into the tank, and the pilot wakes up again.  Tunnel vision does not pull oxygen out of the tank.  Blackout does. 

 
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: TequilaChaser on March 28, 2014, 12:59:41 PM
Yes it is, whatever name u ll use, its the same system : its called an arcade gauge.

Try IL2 or WT, u ll understand what i mean.


1st off- I have played damn near every online aerial combat mmog there has been for the last 20+ years, including being an alpha & beta tester for numerous flight Sims....

I alpha and beta tested "world of planes" recently being retitled as "War Thunder"
I also have played IL2 along with many of the different variants and add-on expansion packs...

Now, if you are so sure of yourself and so knowledgeable about what you think you are certain of regarding AH's accumulative blackout effect.... Please show us all your AH film of what you are arguing is arcadic, or what you believe is wrong or inaccurate....

Although the film might not show us the screen blacking out, it will show us how many times and how often/how quickly you are pulling pass the 6.1 +G's and how long you are holding your pull while blacked out....
Your question of it being wrong causes it to fall on you to provide us and HTC with proof via ah film, that their is a bug or something wrong...

No need to try telling me to go fly/play any other flight game... I already have many times over...

FLS, Skuzzy and Arlo, have already explained this to you...

Where is your film?    No film? Then you are just blowing hot air....

Hope this helps

TC
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Warmongo on March 28, 2014, 05:23:10 PM
Lucy! I'm home!
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Zoney on March 28, 2014, 05:34:35 PM
Here comes the arcade gauge i was talkin about and suspecting :5x lil blackout = 6th becomes 30s sleep, even if the blackouts werent sustended (for me) : i only TRIGERRED 5 times the blackout system, so the gauge considered next time it was sleeping time : il2 and even WT got realistic blackout systems : it might be time for AH to upgrade their system too and get rid of the arcade gauge.... :rock


You have failed sir.

Yes it is, whatever name u ll use, its the same system : its called an arcade gauge.

Try IL2 or WT, u ll understand what i mean.


twice
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Lucifer on March 29, 2014, 03:47:25 AM
Your post is really usefull and constructive, tyvm ! :rock

Btw, the current system IS a gauge system, but it's pointless to continue arguing here : Yes Vs No + Trolls now posting = No more interest. :aok



You have failed sir.

twice
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Arlo on March 29, 2014, 08:25:30 AM
Your post is really usefull and constructive, tyvm ! :rock

Btw, the current system IS a gauge system, but it's pointless to continue arguing here : Yes Vs No + Trolls now posting = No more interest. :aok

You were using the phrase 'arcade gauge.' Feel free to describe your phraseology in detail. If you're using 'gauge' and 'code' interchangeably I would recommend using the latter. 'Arcade' has negative connotation (which most of us appear to have noticed and which appeared to be your intent). You made comparison to other games with an air of authority (which you were challenged on). Now you are resorting to a claim that trolls have invaded your thread so you have no more interest in it (which is weak, in spite of your prefacing you latest post with feigned appreciation).

I see room for growth. This community as well as official sources (Skuzzy taking the time to offer accurate insight) can help you with that.

 :salute
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Traveler on April 05, 2014, 02:49:50 PM
Basically, a pilot gets X amount of time in a blackout condition (this is cumulative).  Once that time has been exceeded, the pilot goes unconscious.  Recovery is based on the amount of time not in a blackout condition.

Each time the pilot blacks out, the recovery can be longer if you do those blackouts close together.

Question, isn't blackout and unconscious the same thing.   Medically when a patient has blacked out, they are unconscious in the real world.

Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: FLS on April 05, 2014, 03:00:18 PM
In this case blackout refers to losing vision while still conscious.  The progression is grey out, tunnel vision, blackout, then loss of consciousness. AH models tunnel vision, blackout, and unconsciousness. A notable difference between blackout and unconsciousness in AH is the loss of control input.
Title: Re: blackout system bugged
Post by: Skuzzy on April 06, 2014, 06:51:23 AM
Question, isn't blackout and unconscious the same thing.   Medically when a patient has blacked out, they are unconscious in the real world.

Not in the context of g-force induced blackouts. 

What FLS said.