Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Vraciu on April 08, 2014, 09:30:59 PM

Title: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Vraciu on April 08, 2014, 09:30:59 PM
How do you blur them if they curve down?

I got some fuel stains on my my mustang using layers.   Man I am glad you guys taught me that trick.  It makes skinning a million times easier.

I haven't looked it up for accuracy....   I see a lot of red stains for wings aft of the fuel cap.  Is that accurate or conjecture?

Edit in: http://www.eaa.org/autofuel/avgas/grades.asp

Purple, but I presume that is the modern color, not what was used in WWII....     ???
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Devil 505 on April 08, 2014, 09:56:52 PM
What I do is only possible if you have a USB drawing pad with stylus. Stop reading if all you have is a mouse.

On a new layer, I take my selected exhaust color. I use a relatively small brush: circle fuzzy (07) and I set an opacity to about 40%. I then start with small strokes at the source, gradually building up color as I work rearward and in the direction of airflow with longer and more curving strokes. I make swirling strokes on the edges to add texture. The final effect should be longer and more fanned out than you want initially. It will blend together nicely once you reduce the total layer opacity to between 70 and 85 percent, depending on how stark you want the stains.

here is a screenie to illustrate the final effect. Please note the effect in the top profile is exaggerated.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Smokecomparison.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/Smokecomparison.png.html)
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Vraciu on April 08, 2014, 10:42:44 PM
Pretty awesome.   :)

Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Vraciu on April 08, 2014, 11:52:22 PM
Are the stains flat on the Spec Map?
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Saxman on April 09, 2014, 12:58:53 AM
I think the specularity of the stains is going to vary depending on what kind of stain it is:

Staining around the muzzles of the guns and shell casing ejector ports under the wings is probably going to be fairly matte, while oil stains will be a bit more specular.

As with the gun ports, engine exhaust would likely be more matte.

Leaking fuel appears to eat away at the paint (see my F4U-1A skin, White 883 from VMF-214. You can see where fuel leaking from the tank has eaten away at the paint), so would expose any bare metal underneath unless touched up or kept clean.
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Vraciu on April 09, 2014, 07:15:29 AM
Saxman,

In this case I am thinking NMF, so I trust the fuel and engine stains would still follow your suggestions?

What color should a fuel stain be?   Seems most Pony skinners use red...
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: colmbo on April 09, 2014, 09:15:47 AM
I've fueled a lot of airplanes, haven't noticed fuel eating the paint.  Was does happen is the paint gets worn by the fuel nozzle and hose.
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Saxman on April 09, 2014, 10:44:43 AM
I've fueled a lot of airplanes, haven't noticed fuel eating the paint.  Was does happen is the paint gets worn by the fuel nozzle and hose.

(http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/images/e/ec/883.jpg)

That's not fuel nozzle and hose wear.
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Greebo on April 09, 2014, 01:15:31 PM
A natural metal finish will tend to show less staining than a painted surface. WW2 aircraft camouflage paint was generally made with a matt or satin finish to avoid reflections. To get a matt finish the paint has a powder mixed into it which gives it a rough texture and this tends to collect dirt. The exhaust stain is a mixture of oil and other combustion byproducts like lead. Oil stains tend to be a dark red brown, but lead stains are very light. Sometimes planes have just dark staining and sometimes both light and dark. For instance F6Fs tend to have a pale centre to their exhaust stains with a dark border. Lancs have a lot of pale lead staining. You should always start by looking at as many WW2 photos of your plane as you can and examine the staining and other weathering. Be wary of modern warbird photos as those planes tend to be way more pampered than RL service aircraft.

I paint my stains pretty much the same way as Devil does, although I do use a mouse. I have a drawing pad, but have never really got on with it. I set my airbrush tool to say 15-30 pixels diameter, about 60% hardness, 50% density and 5-10% opacity. Then I make lots of strokes in the direction of the airflow building it up thicker near the exhaust but fading as it runs back along the fuselage and to the edges of the stain. On some aircraft the staining can run right back to the tail, you can often see faint discolouration running across rear fuselage markings. If the exhaust stain has both light and dark areas I might make a seperate layer for each. That way, if I decide I don't like one of the colours, it is easy to change it later.

Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Vraciu on April 09, 2014, 02:14:21 PM
These stains are so subtle as to be almost invisible.  My attempts to duplicate are just missing the mark somehow...

My skin has the D on the tail.
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Vraciu on April 09, 2014, 02:39:26 PM
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/wiki/images/e/ec/883.jpg)

That's not fuel nozzle and hose wear.

Indeed.  Corsairs were notorious for minor fuel leaks, hence the white tape on the upper fuselage ahead of the cockpit on many (like VF-17's)...at least that's how I remember reading about it decades ago.
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Greebo on April 09, 2014, 02:51:35 PM
Just make the stain too heavy to start with and turn the opacity of the layer down until it matches the photo.
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: colmbo on April 09, 2014, 03:52:28 PM
Indeed.  Corsairs were notorious for minor fuel leaks, hence the white tape on the upper fuselage ahead of the cockpit on many (like VF-17's)...at least that's how I remember reading about it decades ago.

I'd read that it was oil blowing back through the seams is why they were taped.  Oil on a windshield really messes up the view forward.
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Vraciu on April 09, 2014, 04:17:00 PM
I'd read that it was oil blowing back through the seams is why they were taped.  Oil on a windshield really messes up the view forward.


Or that.  Lol!   :aok
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Saxman on April 09, 2014, 05:09:26 PM
I'd read that it was oil blowing back through the seams is why they were taped.  Oil on a windshield really messes up the view forward.

It was fuel. Some of the early Corsairs had cowl flaps that went the fully circumference of the cowl, which led to oil thrown by the R-2800 spraying across the windshield, but when you see the fuselage taped, that's always around the fuselage fuel tank.
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Vraciu on April 09, 2014, 09:14:12 PM
It was fuel. Some of the early Corsairs had cowl flaps that went the fully circumference of the cowl, which led to oil thrown by the R-2800 spraying across the windshield, but when you see the fuselage taped, that's always around the fuselage fuel tank.

Glad I remembered it correctly.  Also recall the cowl flap thing.    So grateful senility hasn't set in just yet.   WHEW.  :)  :banana:
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Vraciu on April 10, 2014, 12:02:18 AM
?????????????????????????????????
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Greebo on April 10, 2014, 05:06:31 AM
The level of stain looks right but maybe make it extend rearwards more.
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Vraciu on April 10, 2014, 09:33:51 AM
The level of stain looks right but maybe make it extend rearwards more.

Do the photos support that?   The color pics on page one of this thread...    Or is it a matter of artistic license?  A necessary evil to make the plane look realistic...?

Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Devil 505 on April 10, 2014, 12:43:02 PM
A little of both, really. Skinning is like plastic model building when it comes to making a realistic finish, it's always better to over-weather vs under-weather the paint. The key is finding that balance. What your trying to avoid is unifority in the finish. Uniformity looks fake, that is why weathering is so important. The key is making the weathering effects blend into the skins.
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Vraciu on April 10, 2014, 12:44:30 PM
Okay then.  Will try to extend the exhaust residue and see what happens....

Layering makes fixing mistakes so much easier!
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Puma44 on April 14, 2014, 04:02:04 PM
Here's an exhaust stain for reference.

(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/17c74739e699e053264918af5c45b693_zps904692f0.jpg)

 :salute
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Vraciu on April 14, 2014, 07:35:42 PM
Wow what a picture!   :salute
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Puma44 on April 15, 2014, 12:35:50 PM
Thanks!  It was fun making it.   :salute
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: -ammo- on April 15, 2014, 12:39:01 PM
That picture of Crazy Horse is awesome.  That guy needs to eat some meat and potatoes though.
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Puma44 on April 16, 2014, 11:12:33 PM
He's a college senior with aspirations of being a Navy fighter pilot.
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Vraciu on April 17, 2014, 08:36:00 AM
I actually managed to duplicate that rainbow effect just aft of the stacks but I am not sure what key combo I pressed.  It was a complete accident.  Ahhhhhh!!!!
Title: Re: Exhaust Stains
Post by: Puma44 on April 18, 2014, 12:52:01 AM
Very cool!  :aok