Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: pervert on April 16, 2014, 01:29:48 PM
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Tanks killing planes by shooting HE into the ground, filmed one today, maybe its lag on my part but looking back at the film I am more than 220 odd feet away from the explosion and traveling at 257 mph away from the blast? Anyone else think this is quite gamey?
Heres a link to the film
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=361289.0;attach=19110 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=361289.0;attach=19110)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/1z5q2hh.jpg)
When I die is about half a sec later, I am 120 odd feet away from the site of the blast and travelling at 257 odd mph away from the blast? Seems odd to me that this can be so effective, anyone know the mechanics of this?
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That Stuka doesnt shoot HE.
Just watched it. A perfect hit to the weakest part of the T34 with a special anti-armor shell the Germans equipped that Stuka model with. Ive blown up plenty of T34s hitting that rear engine hatch.
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That Stuka doesnt shoot HE.
Just watched it. A perfect hit to the weakest part of the T34 with a special anti-armor shell the Germans equipped that Stuka model with. Ive blown up plenty of T34s hitting that rear engine hatch.
:headscratch:
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T34s do that phaggotry all the time. It's one of the things that is so off putting in AH.
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T34s do that phaggotry all the time. It's one of the things that is so off putting in AH.
Hes shooting into the ground hes actually nowhere near shooting my actual plane? What kind of destructive range do these shells have?
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:headscratch:
http://books.google.com/books?id=ayoncdaxYkQC&pg=PA178&lpg=PA178&dq=stuka+anti+tank+shell&source=bl&ots=rQMSklLwYO&sig=nym-mqV2XLQZyVKi0JyIjdFiMlY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=S9ZOU4PcLZKNyATq6YKYBQ&ved=0CH4Q6AEwCw#v=onepage&q=stuka%20anti%20tank%20shell&f=false
Hes shooting into the ground hes actually nowhere near shooting my actual plane? What kind of destructive range do these shells have?
Your saying he shot you down by shooting into the ground with an HE shell? At no time in the film do I see your plane going down, or even him shooting.
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Hes shooting into the ground hes actually nowhere near shooting my actual plane? What kind of destructive range do these shells have?
SMAG Shells, otherwise known as;
Sooper Mega Awsum Gheyness Shells
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http://books.google.com/books?id=ayoncdaxYkQC&pg=PA178&lpg=PA178&dq=stuka+anti+tank+shell&source=bl&ots=rQMSklLwYO&sig=nym-mqV2XLQZyVKi0JyIjdFiMlY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=S9ZOU4PcLZKNyATq6YKYBQ&ved=0CH4Q6AEwCw#v=onepage&q=stuka%20anti%20tank%20shell&f=false
Your saying he shot you down by shooting into the ground with an HE shell? At no time in the film do I see your plane going down, or even him shooting.
Using the film viewer pause and then slow the film down now go to external and look were he is acually shooting and play it.
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Interesting, that kills a plane but not even an M3 or M8 when the round is put just as close. Blast radius is more out than up.
I'd imagine this is a bug you've uncovered, unless you are <~30ft off the ground. Furthermore, the round's explosion appears to be behind you, of course on his FE you could be closer to the blast. What was your alt?
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In the defense, a plane's skin isn't proof against a butter knife, while an M3 is supposed to be armored against infantry weapons fire and shell fragments, and the M8 has the armor of an actual tank, albeit an EW light tank.
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Interesting, that kills a plane but not even an M3 or M8 when the round is put just as close. Blast radius is more out than up.
You can't judge by the victim's film how close the plane was to the round going off. You need to see the shooter's film, as it's his FE on which a 'hit' is determined. The inherent lag means you see the tank shoot later than he actually did.
Just as on many of my films enemy bullets strike empty space behind my plane, yet I am hit. That's not a result of a bug, that's just the effect of combined lag.
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Tanks killing planes by shooting HE into the ground, filmed one today, maybe its lag on my part but looking back at the film I am more than 220 odd feet away from the explosion and traveling at 257 mph away from the blast? Anyone else think this is quite gamey?
Heres a link to the film
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=361289.0;attach=19110 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=361289.0;attach=19110)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/1z5q2hh.jpg)
When I die is about half a sec later, I am 120 odd feet away from the site of the blast and travelling at 257 odd mph away from the blast? Seems odd to me that this can be so effective, anyone know the mechanics of this?
Reminds me of the collision model in a way. He probably seen you much closer to the round than you seen yourself. Explaining why he got the kill and you got the "WTF" moment.
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Reminds me of the collision model in a way. He probably seen you much closer to the round than you seen yourself. Explaining why he got the kill and you got the "WTF" moment.
I actually thought he had reverse gunned me IV is a decent enough shot, I have seen other guys doing this HE thing but never actually filmed it.
Does anyone know how its modelled the blast? I have never heard of people doing this in RL except maybe for Bismarck shooting its main guns into the sea against the swordfish bombers.
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I'm aware it's on an opponent's FE that hit/kill is determined. That's why I wrote 'the round's explosion appears to be behind you, of course on his FE you could be closer to the blast...'
What is at issue to me is Pervert's alt. What would be the maximum effective range in altitude (upward blast) of the T34 (85mm, ircc) HE shell be? If for example it is 30ft (upward) and Pervert was at 31ft, then...
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I'm aware it's on an opponent's FE that hit/kill is determined. That's why I wrote 'the round's explosion appears to be behind you, of course on his FE you could be closer to the blast...'
What is at issue to me is Pervert's alt. What would be the maximum effective range in altitude (upward blast) of the T34 (85mm, ircc) HE shell be? If for example it is 30ft (upward) and Pervert was at 31ft, then...
Thats even if dispersion is modeled at all on HE, knowing AH it will be a box of some sort, I kinda wondered the same when I was being bombed in a GV guys were missing me by miles with the bombs and I still got blown up :headscratch:
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I actually thought he had reverse gunned me IV is a decent enough shot, I have seen other guys doing this HE thing but never actually filmed it.
Does anyone know how its modelled the blast? I have never heard of people doing this in RL except maybe for Bismarck shooting its main guns into the sea against the swordfish bombers.
Perv,
I believe the Japanese did this to US navy planes also,the large calibre guns would blast a wall of water several hundred feet high and the torpedo bombers had to dodge them both comming in and going out.
Pretty sure dogfights had an episode where they explained this.
If you could get IV's film,if he has 1,you'd likely see a much different point of view!
As Lusche has said you need his film to see what actually happened on his end.
:salute
PS: I cant tell you how many times I've been shot where the other guy's nose wasnt even pointing at me yet. It's like it says on the sideview mirror,things maybe closer than they appear! :devil :devil
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Perv,
I believe the Japanese did this to US navy planes also,the large calibre guns would blast a wall of water several hundred feet high and the torpedo bombers had to dodge them both comming in and going out.
Pretty sure dogfights had an episode where they explained this.
A P-38 pilot in the SWPA was credited with a kill on a Zeke from the resulting water geyser caused by his bombs.
ack-ack
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For GV-ers, it is a known tactic. Thus the need to always take some HE rounds. :D
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You can't judge by the victim's film how close the plane was to the round going off. You need to see the shooter's film, as it's his FE on which a 'hit' is determined. The inherent lag means you see the tank shoot later than he actually did.
Just as on many of my films enemy bullets strike empty space behind my plane, yet I am hit. That's not a result of a bug, that's just the effect of combined lag.
Ok so lets account for that, perfect scenario directly over the blast
(http://i61.tinypic.com/2i6ngg5.jpg)
Went an flew a storch over there got the alt, subtracted it from my alt its still 143 ft distance from the ground to my plane, I would like to know how the blast is modelled, personally speaking I think its a cube and anything in that cube is dead regardless of its position relative to the centre, I had guys bombing me in a GV an not even being close and an instant death. 143 ft is a bit much sorry :rolleyes: how much explosive can you put in an 85mm shell that will when fired into the ground produce an instant death to an aircraft 143 ft away from it, seems quite far fetched to me.
Couldn't find any info on the HE shells the 85mm fired that would be helpful if anyone knew that info.
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A T-34 has the smallest HE blast in the game, aside from the M4A3-76 which has a reduced HE charge. It will not hit you at that altitude unless his gun actually hits you. That said, if he mounts a berm (I can see a berm) and he has the barrel elevated to smack you as you go by, there is a bug in the film viewer and in the game that makes it look as if he shot the ground even when he shoots you directly.
By the way, the HE blast of an actual tank round is about three times bigger than it is portrayed in Aces High. I think the blast radius effect is probably correct, but the smoke and visual effect appears too small.
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A T-34 has the smallest HE blast in the game, aside from the M4A3-76 which has a reduced HE charge. It will not hit you at that altitude unless his gun actually hits you. That said, if he mounts a berm (I can see a berm) and he has the barrel elevated to smack you as you go by, there is a bug in the film viewer and in the game that makes it look as if he shot the ground even when he shoots you directly.
By the way, the HE blast of an actual tank round is about three times bigger than it is portrayed in Aces High. I think the blast radius effect is probably correct, but the smoke and visual effect appears too small.
I didn't even know there was a blast effect but I run rubbish graphics settings? :headscratch:
Some more info on the HE would be helpful, were is your source for this? Its the perked T34 btw with the bigger gun. He definately wasn't on the berm as I shot him on my attack run.
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the M8 has the armor of an actual tank, albeit an EW light tank.
I say otherwise on that.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/icyy6q093alt5v2/m3+killing+m8+50+cal_1858.ahf
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I didn't even know there was a blast effect but I run rubbish graphics settings? :headscratch:
Some more info on the HE would be helpful, were is your source for this? Its the perked T34 btw with the bigger gun. He definately wasn't on the berm as I shot him on my attack run.
My source is online experience in this game, because the more you play both sides of the game (air/ground) the more you learn. Still, you can look up the shelling of infantry by armor units in nearly any armor book. High explosive rounds (HE) were designed as anti-infantry ammunition. Tanks are designed to support infantry. There are many action reports of infantry in WWII getting hit with HE rounds exploding in the tops of trees. It's actually one of the most famous events in WWII Europe; 6th Corps Italy comes to mind but there are many, many others. You can also look at reports of our troops in Okinawa, but the most effective fire in that case was against civilians. I believe I have even seen footage on youtube of HE exploding in the trees on Okinawa and you can see immediately that a 300-ft diameter blast would be pretty close for a 75mm HE shell out of a Sherman. That against infantry would be the worse case, but airplanes are not much better protected.
You should also know that any explosion in AH only affects objects above the impact point. If the tank is below a bomb crater it will not be touched. This is why you hear so many accounts of bombs landing right beside tanks and it does not even track the tank, because the bomb hit the top of a berm or elevated terrain.
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T-34/85 is actually tied for the largest blast, not the smallest, at 234lbs of destructive force. Not sure about the T-34/76.
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Yes, for some reason I thought his Stuka was bombing a T34/76.
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I believe the Japanese did this to US navy planes also,the large calibre guns would blast a wall of water several hundred feet high and the torpedo bombers had to dodge them both comming in and going out.
Im pretty sure this is what they did with their super-battleships and the 18" guns since their beehive rounds were so ineffective and damaging to the guns. Of course one had to wonder why anyone on Yamato would have been worried about damaging the guns on their last sortie. This was a bit of a disappointment in the, otherwise, great movie "Yamato". that they didnt show this tactic used as the USN torpedo planes bore in. I still recommend the movie for anyones "foreign" collection.
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At least during the Battle off Samar, the Yamato didn't use that tactic when attacked by TBMs from Taffy 3 and Taffy 2, nor did the Musashi (Yamato's sister battleship) the day before during the Battle of the Sibuyan Sea.
ack-ack
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I didn't even know there was a blast effect but I run rubbish graphics settings? :headscratch:
Some more info on the HE would be helpful, were is your source for this? Its the perked T34 btw with the bigger gun. He definately wasn't on the berm as I shot him on my attack run.
I'd like to know how come you can drop a 500 lb bomb 15ft from a tank and nothing happens and IV can shoot his little 85mm gun and knock a plane out of the air well above the tree tops going^ 275mph. :O
It's not your graphics Perv I just watched my film ... IV deliberately lowers his gun and shoots into the ground ... he says he has been able to do it since 2006 ...so its okay... I can clearly see in my film that I am past his shot at 275mph and I'm well over the trees his cannon round registers on my front left wing. Almost as if I'm at his level right in front of his gun.
On approach
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/2ac8f8ad-ff1f-4eba-a27a-064263b44e93_zpsc384bcc6.png)
IV Shoots
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d0350e48-9742-4eb0-948d-5018d9f6e9f8_zps6d1b2d9d.png)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/f676080c-cbad-4675-8e16-638136000d2c_zps751463d3.png)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/8ab06c30-f28a-4dab-b838-21b5955e33ce_zps06c735f2.png)
Shot registers on wing front and blows off wing
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d03f2538-0caf-4b48-b89b-7e5b6543dbbf_zpsf2113aac.png)
(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/4527a73d-d22f-442d-8df5-8b0c5934f058_zpsb3c10d6e.png)
I examined the film from several different angles and views sure looks buggy to me.. At the least the HE ords need to be looked at.
:cheers:
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I'd like to know how come you can drop a 500 lb bomb 15ft from a tank and nothing happens and IV can shoot his little 85mm gun and knock a plane out of the air at over 100ft+ going^ at 275mph. :O
Because your plane doesn't have 45mm of armor, and doesn't weigh 35 tons. And lets be honest here; a lot of those "15foot misses" are close to 100yds away.
It's not your graphics Perv I just watched my film ... IV deliberately lowers his gun and shoots into the ground ... he says he has been able to do it since 2006 ...so its okay... I can clearly see in my film that I am past his shot at 275mph and I'm well over the trees his cannon round registers on my front left wing. Almost as if I'm at his level right in front of his gun.
Lag. On his screen (which is the one that counts when HE is the one who is shooting), you're not past the tank, simple as that.
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I'm sorry but that's some gamey crap right there.
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I'm sorry but that's some gamey crap right there.
:aok
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Fin you are 69 feet above IV's elevation. I've asked in this thread, what is the maximum effective damage of the upward blast in AH? I don't think anyone has stated on that. Pervert was at ~140 ft, double your altitude. I see it more likely to happen at 69ft than 140ft, however I'd imagine it should be more like 30 or 40 feet, just a guess there. I say max effective, in that AH only counts strikes when you fire gun/cannon when you actually hit, so max effective range in this case should be a blast that would cause some damage everytime.
We know this doesn't happen at 500ft so it's obviously coded into the game.
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A while back several squad members conducted an experiment with the various GV's & HE rounds. We had one of us park in a GV backed up against a bomber hanger & we shot rounds at the hangar at various heights & distances along the wall. We were surprised at how big a blast radius he took hits from even though none were shot at him directly.
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Fin you are 69 feet above IV's elevation. I've asked in this thread, what is the maximum effective damage of the upward blast in AH? I don't think anyone has stated on that. Pervert was at ~140 ft, double your altitude. I see it more likely to happen at 69ft than 140ft, however I'd imagine it should be more like 30 or 40 feet, just a guess there. I say max effective, in that AH only counts strikes when you fire gun/cannon when you actually hit, so max effective range in this case should be a blast that would cause some damage everytime.
We know this doesn't happen at 500ft so it's obviously coded into the game.
Actually re watched the whole video from that sortie, prior to my getting killed it turns out I had a 'near miss' with him doing the same thing you can hear the explosion 'clipping' the aircraft as it exits. You can actually see here in my screenshot something striking the plane. IV himself told me that he trys to shoot exactly as the plane is over his tank, in this video you can see him reacting to me making my run, he tries to get his gun elevated high enough, sees that I am coming in to steep and turns the tank to avoid the shot, this is no FE lag.
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2cz38mo.jpg)
alt seems to have less bearing as width, this is a box a cube around the explosion, this means someone can fire even if a plane has passed them and there is a chance the plane will get caught in the box.
Here is another film with the near strike.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=361289.0;attach=19114 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=361289.0;attach=19114)
Watch it, IV is reacting to what I am doing in his attack run, this is nothing to do with lag or FE
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Finn how many attempt did it take him to take your wing off? I see a couple of craters there?
On my film at the point of impact this is what I was
Kill
alt - 68 ft
distance - 61 ft
Near miss
alt - 105 ft
distance - 41 feet
Anyone fancy setting up a custom arena to test any of this? It should be reproducable to get an idea of what shape the explosion is modelled at
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Finn how many attempt did it take him to take your wing off? I see a couple of craters there?
One ......the craters are from tanks shooting at IV.
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alt seems to have less bearing as width, this is a box a cube around the explosion, this means someone can fire even if a plane has passed them and there is a chance the plane will get caught in the box.
Sorry, but it's more like a sphere, as it should be. You can ask Hitech or Pyro directly and they will tell you that the damage falls off with distance. You will have the same effect when you shell hangars. You do not need to hit the hangar to kill it, but the amount of damage drops off with distance and so the number of tank rounds required to kill a hangar increases as more rounds miss. At some point the damage is zero because the distance is too long. Also, HE rounds from tanks work slightly different than bombs. Bombs also have a blast radius, and so the blast radius works the same and AH is consistent in that regard. However, if a bomb does not carry enough damage to penetrate the armor then the tank survives. It should be obvious to you that you are (ridiculously) requesting that an aircraft be capable of absorbing more damage than a tank and still survive every time you (whoever is making the request) suggest that an HE round should not damage your plane.
Just ask yourself if you think that buzzing the ground through an artillery barrage is a good idea. It's not gamey. You are fighting physics.
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It should be obvious to you that you are (ridiculously) requesting that an aircraft be capable of absorbing more damage than a tank and still survive every time you (whoever is making the request) suggest that an HE round should not damage your plane.
When did I request that?
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I did not specify you (pervert). That's why that part (whoever is making the request) bit is in there. But let's be intellectually honest here. If you start off saying "that's gamey" or "no tank ever did that," what you are asking for is that an airplane to either absorb the damage, or to be transparent to it.
Now THAT would be gamey.
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I did not specify you (pervert). That's why that part (whoever is making the request) bit is in there. But let's be intellectually honest here. If you start off saying "that's gamey" or "no tank ever did that," what you are asking for is that an airplane to either absorb the damage, or to be transparent to it.
Now THAT would be gamey.
Who did make the request then? Oh you just made that part up didn't you?
I am asking for facts, thats all I am interested in, since your the only one commenting on the shape of the discharge and you have just proven to me that you have a tendency to steer towards assumption before waiting for facts...I will have to discount your opinion as unreliable :)
Probably the best thing to do is for me to test it myself ingame.
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Anyone else think this is quite gamey?
Proof that it's you that is unreliable. Just keep making things up as you go. That's a safe play.
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Proof that it's you that is unreliable. Just keep making things up as you go. That's a safe play.
^ Shh...you hear that?...that, is the sound of an assumption! :D you should copyright that and stick it your next soundpack :D
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It's a conclusion, not an assumption. You lost the argument and now you have nothing. Your thread has now devolved into a purse fight between you and semantics. You're losing that too.
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It is gamey if the modeling is oversimplified, for instance a shot delivered with considerable lateral velocity producing a perfectly vertical blast column / sphere what-have you. Presumably there is some real-world restraint precluding this tactic that AH does not model.
Seems to my untrained eye to be as gamey as rocket jumping in quake.
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If challenged would even bother reading the posts or even watch the films, he thought I was dropping bombs, and didn't even bother to look at the film to see what model of tank it was :lol I do have a problem with getting hit by a blast after I pass it, as you can see in the 2nd video the guy is clearly reacting to dodge me, it adds up to not being to much of condescending c$%t that you actually read people's posts rather leap to wild assumptions :rofl.
Challenged you list your source as your own experience in game, show me the post that says the blast are spherical, I'm not saying they aren't but you do have a bit of a rep for spoofing so I'm not kidding when I say I want to see some more hard evidence.
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(http://i836.photobucket.com/albums/zz281/Megalodon2/d0350e48-9742-4eb0-948d-5018d9f6e9f8_zps6d1b2d9d.png)
That close to 85mm HE shell going off SHOULD mess you up.
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Actually re watched the whole video from that sortie, prior to my getting killed it turns out I had a 'near miss' with him doing the same thing you can hear the explosion 'clipping' the aircraft as it exits. You can actually see here in my screenshot something striking the plane. IV himself told me that he trys to shoot exactly as the plane is over his tank, in this video you can see him reacting to me making my run, he tries to get his gun elevated high enough, sees that I am coming in to steep and turns the tank to avoid the shot, this is no FE lag.
(http://i62.tinypic.com/2cz38mo.jpg)
alt seems to have less bearing as width, this is a box a cube around the explosion, this means someone can fire even if a plane has passed them and there is a chance the plane will get caught in the box.
Here is another film with the near strike.
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=361289.0;attach=19114 (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=361289.0;attach=19114)
Watch it, IV is reacting to what I am doing in his attack run, this is nothing to do with lag or FE
There is always lag, which means on his end you were at a lower alt and farther away from him. I can't be the only one who's seen planes fly under ground before pulling up when lag is high. I don't know about artillery shells but back in AHI bomb explosions were modeled so that damage to ground objects diminished with distance from the explosion. Can you get iraqvet's film of the event?
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Blast radius collision are simply a sphere. And damage varies with the square of the distance.
Armored vehicles will take damaged just like being hit by a weapon in that if it doesn't penetrate, no damage is applied.
HiTech
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According to wikipedia the gun that the t34/85 is armed with shot down over 4,000 aircraft. :lol
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According to wikipedia the gun that the t34/85 is armed with shot down over 4,000 aircraft. :lol
And not 1 of those while it was mounted on the tank.......... :lol
Buffoon,
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Blast radius collision are simply a sphere. And damage varies with the square of the distance.
Armored vehicles will take damaged just like being hit by a weapon in that if it doesn't penetrate, no damage is applied.
HiTech
There you go, pervert. Everything I said is now verified. You can now end the shreckless attack on vehicles in the game.
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Buffoon,
:rofl
There you go, pervert. Everything I said is now verified. You can now end the shreckless attack on vehicles in the game.
Only the spherical blast model, which was a reasonable assumption. What about the real world limitations?
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Does anybody know the historical minimum arming distance for such a tank HE shell?
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Does anybody know the historical minimum arming distance for such a tank HE shell?
Exactly. Or where the fuse is, how it's triggered (abrupt deceleration or an actual impact of the fuse), does the casing favour a spherical blast or a directed one, is the blast also displaced sideways as a result of the high lateral velocity of the round etc...
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And not 1 of those while it was mounted on the tank.......... :lol
Buffoon,
For reals??
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For reals??
The 85s gun was one of the main Russian anti aircraft guns, bit like the German's 88
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Blast radius collision are simply a sphere. And damage varies with the square of the distance.
Armored vehicles will take damaged just like being hit by a weapon in that if it doesn't penetrate, no damage is applied.
HiTech
(http://i59.tinypic.com/119vujp.jpg)
Which one of the 3? If it is a true spherical blast (no1) then a good strategy would be to go low onto the deck right after an attack run? 2 would seem a strange shape for a blast, 3 seems a more likely blast for a shell fired into the ground?
And can you accumulate blast damage in a plane, ie a near miss on one will lead to a greater likelyhood of failure on the next pass?
There you go, pervert. Everything I said is now verified. You can now end the shreckless attack on vehicles in the game.
Ahem, I am trying to talk to someone who has actually made a flight sim...thats not you btw, fake sims don't count, go sit in the corner there like a good girl.
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Quirky things with the blast radius I took a screen shot moments after the flack survived a round from a shore batt. Notice where it landed the flack was right beside the building at the time of inpact.
(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/ahss85_zpsa0a3f7ba.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/ahss85_zpsa0a3f7ba.jpg.html)
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I just toyed around with tank HE shells in offline mode. I could not test for the damager radius vs planes (would take two players and a custom arena to do this), so I tried to find out the radius of the kill zone vs a Jeep (the only unarmored ground vehicle in game).
It seems that the instant kill radius vs an undamaged Jeep is ~45 yards for a T-34/85 or a Tiger I HE shell and ~30 yards for a T-34/76 or a M4(76)w HE shell.
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/hedmgradius_zpsabd23567.jpg)
Of course it doesn't mean the kill zone against planes has the same exact size (not entirely unlikely it's even smaller), but it may give a hint. A more elaborate test in a CA could easily give more meaningful results.
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I am looking around for some sort of reference site for burst patterns but the best I could find was a tripod site :( dunno how good a source that would be but its quite an interesting read.
http://nigelef.tripod.com/wt_of_fire.htm#The%20Effects%20of%20HE%20Shells (http://nigelef.tripod.com/wt_of_fire.htm#The%20Effects%20of%20HE%20Shells)
It has a burst pattern for ww2 British HE shells depending on the angle of entry.
Lusche do you think that is the correct shape for what we have in game? Like the semi spherical one you have illustrated?
If you see me online give me a shout I will go and help you run any tests you need
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There you go, pervert. Everything I said is now verified. You can now end the shreckless attack on vehicles in the game.
Hardly ......the can of worms just opened.
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(http://i59.tinypic.com/119vujp.jpg)
Which one of the 3? If it is a true spherical blast (no1) then a good strategy would be to go low onto the deck right after an attack run? 2 would seem a strange shape for a blast, 3 seems a more likely blast for a shell fired into the ground?
And can you accumulate blast damage in a plane, ie a near miss on one will lead to a greater likelyhood of failure on the next pass?
Ahem, I am trying to talk to someone who has actually made a flight sim...thats not you btw, fake sims don't count, go sit in the corner there like a good girl.
I take #3 for 2000 alex ....because it happened the 1st time it must be right...... :rofl
Hmm a square that seems inconsistent with the science of WWII combat. Shouldn't the blast radius be modeled a little more precise? Hmmm........I mean especially when you traveling 275mph in the opposite direction of and past the blast?
The shots blast would project forward, up and out not backward and straight up and not straight up. How high is the blast?
Whats the blast radius sphere square <I got ya range> on a 1000 lb bomb? I mean we should be dropping buffs at 800 ft or so with eggs if that's the case...> gamey crap here.
IV has done this to me before I had always assumed he was hitting me with the main gun as I went by and just chocked it up to the main gun crap ...... as this gamey feature is also in the game.
So we have 2 main gun issues now..... maybe that's the problem with the planes getting shot... the blast radius sphere square thingy :rolleyes: is to dallgon big you don't have to hit them just get the projectile close enough and it will explode.
To me..... it's just more concession to the GV'ers.... they need it! At any rate, things going the way they are, will be here all by them self's soon gaming the game some more by turning all those pretty graphics just made off for a better shot through the trees.... :rofl
:cheers:
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I take #3 for 2000 alex ....because it happened the 1st time it must be right...... :rofl
Hmm a square that seems inconsistent with the science of WWII combat. Shouldn't the blast radius be modeled a little more precise? Hmmm........I mean especially when you traveling 275mph in the opposite direction of and past the blast?
The shots blast would project forward, up and out not backward and straight up and not straight up. How high is the blast?
Whats the blast radius sphere square <I got ya range> on a 1000 lb bomb? I mean we should be dropping buffs at 800 ft or so with eggs if that's the case...> gamey crap here.
IV has done this to me before I had always assumed he was hitting me with the main gun as I went by and just chocked it up to the main gun crap ...... as this gamey feature is also in the game.
So we have 2 main gun issues now..... maybe that's the problem with the planes getting shot... the blast radius sphere square thingy :rolleyes: is to dallgon big you don't have to hit them just get the projectile close enough and it will explode.
To me..... it's just more concession to the GV'ers.... they need it! At any rate, things going the way they are, will be here all by them self's soon gaming the game some more by turning all those pretty graphics just made off for a better shot through the trees.... :rofl
:cheers:
Well to be fair I still have no clue what the blast should look like in RL, it seems there are a lot of factors fuzing, angle of entry, what the shell is hitting, to be fair to the GVers some of the 'bombing' in the game is quite gamey as well, lancs flying 50ft of the ground in F3 mode, when I was in a GV I have been killed by a bombs that I can see have missed by a country mile and wondered about it.
Failing that perhaps understanding how the blast works will help me avoid it in future.
I reuploaded the diagram from the tripod site
(http://i58.tinypic.com/149a8uw.jpg)
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Interesting stuff........
What about when a shell is fired at a tree?
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Interesting stuff........
What about when a shell is fired at a tree?
In AH it should always simply be a sphere centered on where the shell exploded on the firer's front end.
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In AH it should always simply be a sphere centered on where the shell exploded on the firer's front end.
......such that a shell exploded in some AH foliage presents a blast radius centred near tree top height.......
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......such that a shell exploded in some AH foliage presents a blast radius centred near tree top height.......
Indeed.
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Given this blast radius is being used agin fairly high speed objects ( aircraft ) then the blast characteristic (v time ) modelling comes into play.
How quickly does the blast sphere take to expand and subsequently decay?
Is AH damage incurred inside the volume of an instant sphere or is it incurred as objects penetrate the expanding surface of the blast sphere?
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How quickly does the blast sphere take to expand and subsequently decay
My guess would be: Instant. Observe the effect of a large bomb cookie on a town, there's no "blast" expanding. All objects that are destroyed are beign so at the very same moment.
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I just toyed around with tank HE shells in offline mode. I could not test for the damager radius vs planes (would take two players and a custom arena to do this), so I tried to find out the radius of the kill zone vs a Jeep (the only unarmored ground vehicle in game).
It seems that the instant kill radius vs an undamaged Jeep is ~45 yards for a T-34/85 or a Tiger I HE shell and ~30 yards for a T-34/76 or a M4(76)w HE shell.
(http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o507/Snaildude/hedmgradius_zpsabd23567.jpg)
Of course it doesn't mean the kill zone against planes has the same exact size (not entirely unlikely it's even smaller), but it may give a hint. A more elaborate test in a CA could easily give more meaningful results.
Interdasting.
I did the same test some time ago but have since lost the notes. :frown:
I'm wondering why HTC has given the same blast radius to the T34/76 and M4/76???
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My guess would be: Instant.
At the instant of detonation they likely just calculate the distance between the vector representing the shell and that representing the aircraft position. It's very quick to do with vector calculus. There isn't any escape except for keeping distant. The gameyness lies in the simplistic hemispherical blast shape.
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I'm wondering why HTC has given the same blast radius to the T34/76 and M4/76???
My test showed it's just approximately the same. There were a few feet difference between them, but my way of testing was not precise enough for a definite measurement.