Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Midway on April 16, 2014, 03:27:28 PM
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From standstill, unpowered flight to over 450 mph in a few minutes using dynamic soaring with no onboard propulsive power.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfoxjNg-eg0 :O
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Here is another video of dynamic soaring. Not as fast, but gives you an idea of the technique. These films are not sped up in any way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFBPZszQiE8
I have done this with r/c sailplanes, not nearly as fast as my plane wasn't built for this. When you get in the groove, the plane will just keep accelerating
until it explodes from the G forces or the pilot chickens out!
The current record is 498 MPH. The engineers that designed the airfoils for DSing say the theoretical limit for the airfoil is (IIRC) ~ 515 mph. To be that
close to the limit is some smooth flying.
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Here is another video of dynamic soaring. Not as fast, but gives you an idea of the technique. These films are not sped up in any way.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFBPZszQiE8
I have done this with r/c sailplanes, not nearly as fast as my plane wasn't built for this. When you get in the groove, the plane will just keep accelerating
until it explodes from the G forces or the pilot chickens out!
The current record is 498 MPH. The engineers that designed the airfoils for DSing say the theoretical limit for the airfoil is (IIRC) ~ 515 mph. To be that
close to the limit is some smooth flying.
Albatross use this technique to fly hundreds of miles a day in any direction they choose, even tacking against the wind. With us only recently (in the last couple of years) figuring out how they do it, I wonder if in the near future we can use something similar to travel the skies for free too. :airplane:
"Albatross's Effortless Flight Decoded—May Influence Future Planes"
"Airplane designers are getting new ideas from the albatross, long considered a master of efficient flight".
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/09/120912-albatross-flight-airplane-design-traugott-science/
The video only shows the aeroplane going in circles, but I'm sure that's only because of the pilot being on the ground and needing to maintain radio and visual contact. This pilot has also put a video camera on one of his models to show the in-flight view.
I'd love to see him travel over several miles in any direction with a camera onboard geting up to the 300 to 400mph airspeed and deliver a small cargo to a destination (maybe by parachute drop) and then improve from there.
Free multi hundred mile flights that gain energy as you go sounds really awesome, happens in nature, and is beginning to be explored by modelers, the USAF, and NASA. That is really exciting, to me at least. :aok
Here are the gps tracks of three albatross flying in every direction and then home again on food foraging trips. The wind direction was obviously irrelevant to them.
(http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/htmlsite/1004/images/1004feature_map.jpg)
http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/htmlsite/1004/1004_feature.html
Re: the Albatross:
"Those excursions can cover vast loops more than 9,000 miles long—as if birds nesting in New York City flew to the shores of Italy to forage and then returned to their nests."
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Albatross use this technique to fly hundreds of miles a day in any direction they choose, even tacking against the wind. With us only recently (in the last few years) figuring out how they do it, I wonder if in the near future we can use something similar to travel the skies for free too. :airplane:
The video only shows the aeroplane going in circles, but I'm sure that's only because of the pilot being on the ground and needing to maintain radio and visual contact. This pilot has also put a video camera on one of his models to show the in-flight view.
I'd love to see him travel over several miles in any direction with a camera onboard geting up to the 300 to 400mph airspeed and deliver a small cargo to a destination (maybe by parachute drop) and then improve from there.
Free multi hundred mile flights that gain energy as you go sounds really awesome, happens in nature, and is beginning to be explored by modelers, the USAF, and NASA. That is really exciting, to me at least. :aok
Here are the gps tracks of three albatrosses flying in every direction and then home again on food foraging trips. The wind direction was obviously irrelevant to them.
(http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/htmlsite/1004/images/1004feature_map.jpg)
http://www.naturalhistorymag.com/htmlsite/1004/1004_feature.html
The only problem is that Albatroses can flap when they hit a dead spot in the wind ;)
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The only problem is that Albatroses can flap when they hit a dead spot in the wind ;)
And we can turn on a small jet engine then too. :)
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I Use to do this back in the early 90's down in Southern California. I flew a 60 inch wingspan carbon fiber plane we clocked out at 150 on a small Slope. The amazing part is its fastest going up hill....flying a roter is a total rush.... full scale glider pilots avoid the roter on a mountain...leave it to R/C to come up with this ... amazing what can be done when no human life is involved.
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I don't think we have sufficient Midway posts about Albatrosses, I read a book once too :old:
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What the albatross does is not dynamic soaring. .. It's thermaling. Dynamic soaring needs a roter and that can only exist on the backside of a mountain/hill.
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If I hear the word albatross again I'm going to wring his scrawny neck. :furious ( The Albatross's) :ahand
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What the albatross does is not dynamic soaring. .. It's thermaling. Dynamic soaring needs a roter and that can only exist on the backside of a mountain/hill.
:huh
A quick search of the web would help you see the inaccuracy of your statement.
http://blogs.bu.edu/bioaerial2012/2012/09/30/the-albatross-the-master-of-dynamic-soaring/ :aok
"The albatross is one of nature’s most interesting creatures. They seem to fly for hours and hours and yet they only flap their wings on rare occasions. The instinct and evolutionary advantage that permits the albatross to decrease the flapping needed to stay in flight is called Dynamic Soaring. The albatross is perhaps the most famous example among nature’s creatures to use and apply this flying technique."
http://blogs.bu.edu/bioaerial2012/2012/11/17/flying-without-flapping/ :aok
"Dynamic soaring offers incalculable lessons for the aeronautical community. Engineers at NASA are already designing a UAV based upon the Wandering Albatross able to stay aloft for months at a time. Dynamic soaring is truly a lesson in the unharnessed power of nature that humanity has yet to realize. Unlimited and omnipresent, the power of nature surrounds us, and humanity must learn to use it just as the Wandering Albatross and many others already have."
Your own search will find many more proofs of the awesome dynamic soaring skill of the beautiful and extremely skilled Albatross, my favorite bird.
Please read some more and then when you're ready to say you stand corrected, I'll be proud that you too, like some of us, will belong to the higher cult of mortals for having seen the Albatross. :)
(http://cr2chicago.weebly.com/uploads/9/5/9/4/9594564/8475229_orig.jpg)
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If I hear the word albatross again I'm going to wring his scrawny neck. :furious ( The Albatross's) :ahand
Albatross :) :bolt:
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Same name but 2 different processes...the albatross also uses ground effect which has nothing to do with the type of flying done to accomplish that record. Plus the albatross doesn't use the back side of a roter which is a vertical downdraft created by the wind curling under as it goes over the mountain / hill...
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Same name but 2 different processes...the albatross also uses ground effect which has nothing to do with the type of flying done to accomplish that record. Plus the albatross doesn't use the back side of a roter which is a vertical downdraft created by the wind curling under as it goes over the mountain / hill...
http://www.dynamic-soaring-for-birds.co.uk/
"Dynamic soaring is soaring without a vertical component of air movement. The albatross uses the horizontal wind to keep itself in the air."
Neither a roter nor ground effect are needed for either the albatross or the rc models. All that is required is a horizontal wind gradient... a difference in horizontal velocity of the wind at two different altitudes. I can be done at any altitude (even by the jet stream). Dynamic soaring only needs that one variable (a material difference in wind speed above and below a given altitude).
Ground effect, roters, thermals or any rotating vertical wind patters have nothing to do with it for either the albatross, a sailplane, an rc model or any other flying being or object.
Just turn, go into, turn and come out of the boundary layer between the horizontal wind gradient. Simple as that. :aok
If you'll reread your original post on this re thermals and such you'll see that it makes no sense with respect to the technique used by the albatross:
What the albatross does is not dynamic soaring. :huh .. It's thermaling. Dynamic soaring needs a roter :huh and that can only exist on the backside of a mountain/hill. :huh
"A thermal column (or thermal) is a column of rising air." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal
Now, more than nuff said. :)
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The dynamic soaring you posted about does require a roter... I've done this many times ... go back to the birds ... your comparing an apple an orange.
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The dynamic soaring you posted about does require a roter... I've done this many times ... go back to the birds ... your comparing an apple an orange.
It requires no such thing. :bhead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xlPI0AOj5MI :aok
"Quite different physical principles underlie the soaring flight of seabirds, such as albatrosses, large petrels, and shearwaters. There are no thermals or updrafts over large bodies of water, only horizontal gusts of wind. The air masses that these gusts drive before them are slowed by friction at the water surface, and their speed is consequently slower than in higher altitudes. These seabirds have developed a type of soaring and gliding that does not depend upon the presence of either thermal or obstruction currents."
http://www.paulnoll.com/Oregon/Birds/flight-dynamic-soaring-diagram.html :aok
DYNAMIC SOARING
The latest and fastest development in RC! (radio controlled aeroplanes)
Dynamic Soaring increases an aircraft’s airspeed by exploiting differences in velocity of two adjacent air masses.
http://www.rcspeeds.com/dynamicsoaring.aspx :airplane: :aok
Please, sir, consider your way. :old:
Now, way more than nuff said. :)
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According to wiki, Midway is correct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_soaring
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..., Midway is correct.
...
:banana:
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The dynamic soaring you posted about does require a roter... I've done this many times ... go back to the birds ... your comparing an apple an orange.
Midway is actually correct in his description of dynamic soaring. It doesn't rely on a rotor at all; as a matter of fact the rotor would make things less efficient.
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Nice middy, I like sitting out back watching the birds and local glider club come and do some turns overhead.
Something really cool about the glider with no engine noise! :) seems to be more with nature.
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Midway is actually correct in his description of dynamic soaring. It doesn't rely on a rotor at all; as a matter of fact the rotor would make things less efficient.
Hola MM when you coming back?
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Nice middy, I like sitting out back watching the birds and local glider club come and do some turns overhead.
Something really cool about the glider with no engine noise! :) seems to be more with nature.
:aok
:salute FPH Bruv119 :rock
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Hola MM when you coming back?
Hiya Bear! I think about coming back on a regular basis, I just never seem to drag my gear out and log on. Maybe one day soon...
This is a pretty good explanation of how birds or gliders can use the variance in wind speed at different altitudes to dynamic soar, even the absence of ground features or rotors:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3zAZpWFsuU
The first minute or so is kind of hokey, but after that it gets better...
When we dynamic soar in the hills, in close proximity to (or even flying in or through a rotor) this is probably a better description:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVN-oF6tPLc
And just for the record, I do find the albatross to be a goofy-lookin' but magically gifted flyer, but much prefer to envision and emulate the turkey vultures (another master-level dynamic soarer) or redtails when I'm out flying my Xplorer 3500 or Spider-Sixty!
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I hear that there is a lost manuscript of Ayn Rand's that is going to be published soon titled "The Albatros Shrugged."
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wow thats crazy, I see on 1000 ways to die a guy was into this and if I remember right the sun blinded him and the plane speared him at like 200 mph. I thought the AMA had a speed limit of like 190mph or something like that imposed on airplanes? crazy how they build up that much energy :rock
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I hear that there is a lost manuscript of Ayn Rand's that is going to be published soon titled "The Albatros Shrugged."
We, as well as flight scientists, would lose much if the Albatross where to shrug. :old:
Honour and admire the Albatross for
- it's extreme flight efficiency skills,
- able to travel thousands of miles in one foraging trip...
- in any direction, even against the wind, with hardly ever flapping a wing,
- living a human life span,
- mating for life,
- raising their one chick every two years or so with extreme care and love,
- both parents participating equally in said chick rearing,
- no infidelity,
- able to live in the air for months and even years at a time.
Look what we've already learned from the beautiful Albatross... see the original post, a human being able to propel an unpowered aeroplane from zero to almost 500 mph in a few minutes while climbing to an altitude above the starting point. :airplane:
We have much more to learn from the awesome Albatross. NASA and the USAF have seen the light. :aok
Honour, respect, admire and learn from the awesome Albatross indeed. :salute
Now, way way more than nuff said. :)
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So Midway, the real question is "Is it better than your beloved Spitfire"?
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So Midway, the real question is "Is it better than your beloved Spitfire"?
They are both awesome... different, and yet both awesome.
The man that designed the mighty Spitfire, you must admit, is an awesome man indeed. :aok
"The Spitfire looked as if it should fly." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW7bzlXuiq8
I'm proud to know that the best pilot in Aces High (we all know whom he is) flies the mighty Spitfire with substantial frequency, and I got to ride along one time to see what it was capable of in the hands of said awesome pilot (the only triple TOC winner). A day I will remember always. :salute Bruv119 :rock
:salute R. J. Mitchell, a brilliant engineer who helped design it while fighting cancer, which took him early in life before he got to see the results it produced. He helped us much. :rock
Let it be known and let there be no doubt. :old:
PS: If you search "Bruv Aces High" on youtube, you too will see an example of how in awe people are of the awesomeness of a highly skilled pilot in a mighty aeroplane built by a brilliant engineer. :O
Bruv lands 9 and 10 victories in one sortie, with substantial frequency, in the mighty Spitfire. "He can't be that good, can he?" "Watch what it looks like from inside his plane. It will blow your mind." "...and he's in Spit8!" "How can a Spit8 climb that good?" -- youtube video about Bruv in the mighty Spitfire MK VIII.
The Albatross, the mighty Spitfire engineer/designer, and an awesome Aces High pilot are obviously all very different, but they all have one thing in common. Great skill.
Honour great skill, whether it be the best pilots in Aces High, an engineer fighting cancer while helping the world, or an awesome Albatross. :aok
Honour, admire, and learn from them all indeed. :cheers:
Now, way way way more than nuff said. :)
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wow thats crazy, I see on 1000 ways to die a guy was into this and if I remember right the sun blinded him and the plane speared him at like 200 mph. I thought the AMA had a speed limit of like 190mph or something like that imposed on airplanes? crazy how they build up that much energy :rock
AMA has a 200 mph restriction on turbine powered models in the US. There are no restrictions on IC, Electric powered or sailplanes.
I saw that episode of 1000 ways, the Dynamic Soaring community is pretty small and IIRC no one is aware of this incident.
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I saw that episode of 1000 ways, the Dynamic Soaring community is pretty small and IIRC no one is aware of this incident.
This made its way around the RC forums last year:
http://translate.google.com/translate?depth=1&hl=nl&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=de&tl=en&u=http://www.stuttgarter-zeitung.de/inhalt.stuttgart-weilimdorf-folgenschwerer-unfall-mit-modellflugzeug.82ef0028-d125-4702-b43d-beaadce20b96.html
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They are both awesome... different, and yet both awesome.
The man that designed the mighty Spitfire, you must admit, is an awesome man indeed. :aok
"The Spitfire looked as if it should fly." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW7bzlXuiq8
I'm proud to know that the best pilot in Aces High (we all know whom he is) flies the mighty Spitfire with substantial frequency, and I got to ride along one time to see what it was capable of in the hands of said awesome pilot (the only triple TOC winner). A day I will remember always. :salute Bruv119 :rock
:salute R. J. Mitchell, a brilliant engineer who helped design it while fighting cancer, which took him early in life before he got to see the results it produced. He helped us much. :rock
Let it be known and let there be no doubt. :old:
PS: If you search "Bruv Aces High" on youtube, you too will see an example of how in awe people are of the awesomeness of a highly skilled pilot in a mighty aeroplane built by a brilliant engineer. :O
Bruv lands 9 and 10 victories in one sortie, with substantial frequency, in the mighty Spitfire. "He can't be that good, can he?" "Watch what it looks like from inside his plane. It will blow your mind." "...and he's in Spit8!" "How can a Spit8 climb that good?" -- youtube video about Bruv in the mighty Spitfire MK VIII.
The Albatross, the mighty Spitifre engineer/designer, and an awesome Aces High pilot are obviously all very different, but they all have one thing in common. Great skill.
Honour great skill, whether it be the best pilots in Aces High, an engineer fighting cancer while helping the world, or an awesome Albatross. :aok
Honour, admire, and learn from them all indeed. :cheers:
Now, way way way more than nuff said. :)
I really know that I shouldn't reply but HOW CAN YOU BE SO TEDIOUS :bhead
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I really know that I shouldn't reply but HOW CAN YOU BE SO TEDIOUS :bhead
Tedious???? :huh
That's but a brief summary in a few words. The effort to get to this level of skill can take up books! How much do you know about what made RJ Mitchell great? How much do you know about the Albatross? How much do you know about dynamic soaring? How much do you know about what it takes to pwn like Bruv in Aces High, consistently land more victories than just about anyone else and win three TOCs? :joystick:
My little summary is nothing compared to the years of effort to acquire that level of skill...
...and get through the information and practice required. :old:
Nothing indeed. :salute
Now, quit asking me questions about all this since way way way way more than nuff's been said. :bhead
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Tedious???? :huh
That's but a brief summary in a few words. The effort to get to this level of skill can take up books! How much do you know about what made RJ Mitchell great? How much do you know about the Albatross? How much do you know about dynamic soaring? How much do you know about what it takes to pwn like Bruv in Aces High, consistantly land more victories than just about anyone else and win three TOCs? :joystick:
My little summary is nothing compared to the years of effort to acquire that level of skill...
...and get through the information and practice required. :old:
Nothing indeed. :salute
I know a lot about RJ Mitchell, I couldn't give a toss about Albatrosses, but I know that they don't strive to better their 'skill' at flying, my 8 yr old stepson says pwn'd and Bruv's outstanding at playing this computer game.... and you misspelled consistently. :aok
Now, quit asking me questions about all this since way way way way more than nuff's been said. :bhead
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I know a lot about RJ Mitchell, I couldn't give a toss about Albatrosses, but I know that they don't strive to better their 'skill' at flying, my 8 yr old stepson says pwn'd and Bruv's outstanding at playing this computer game.... and you misspelled consistently.
Fixed your pointed out misspelling. :aok
Watch a young Albatross try to fly and then tell me they don't try to better their skill. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2H9PQ6jt9us
Feel free to watch and read about said topic(s) on your own. :old:
There will be no more posts from Midway in this thread since way way way way way more than nuff's now been said. :salute
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A tribute to Midway's beloved Spitfire (quite beautifully done):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-kPoOoVrfc