Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Someguy63 on May 02, 2014, 07:50:33 AM
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Which is your favorite, and tell me why! :)
:salute
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109E - Art Deco of the Sky
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109F - Nippy little sports car of the sky. Best of the breed.
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When I was new I flew the K-4 a lot, I got away from the whole Luft set here because they are subtle and challenging, couldn't fly em and have any fun.
After more than a year I came back and started flying the G-14, I've figured a few things out and absolutely love it, it took me awhile to figure out how to handle to the subtleties and challenges that much earlier frustrated me out of the plane. Anyhow you're a better stick than I am, so I know you know all that, but maybe some of the Spit/Pony guys could try a challenge if they knew where to start. :airplane:
K-4 spud gun is what keeps me out of it, spud guns are best for lobbing a tater into general direction of a late night gangbangers bass boomin deafening, window rattling party at 2am when I have to work the next day. :devil or so I've heard
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A squaddie of mine swears by the G6, but I have more luck in the F model.
I think the 109's are some of the best planes in the game, but I'm nowhere near where I'd like to be with them... I'll need several more Dolby lessons at least..
<S>
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F4, because it's the best dogfighter ever designed!! :D
G2 would be second as it's very similar to the F4.
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g14 because its got a whole lot of:
(http://x1.fjcdn.com/thumbnails/comments/His+face+when+he+lets+go+and+uses+his+hips+_31ad32e5b00d63430152966557c94ee9.jpg)
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Friedrich for it's turning ability
Emil just because :)
Gustav 14 better maneuverability than the Kurfurst, and carries a 30mm, and/or the 2 20mm pods AND a bomb
Kurfurst for it's speed.
110 G2 2 30mms, 4 20mms and it's a damned good plane.
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These are interesting, I knew the F4 and G14 would be a favorite.
However we do have the Dolbmeister up there with his Emil :D
I have yet to mention my favorite 109, which is the one and only K4 :banana:
Surprised to see no other K4 yards to join me though :lol
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Friedrich for it's turning ability
Emil just because :)
Gustav 14 better maneuverability than the Kurfurst, and carries a 30mm, and/or the 2 20mm pods AND a bomb
Kurfurst for it's speed.
110 G2 2 30mms, 4 20mms and it's a damned good plane.
:)
+1 K4 dweeb
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109F - Nippy little sports car of the sky. Best of the breed.
What he said (109F-4) :aok
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109K
Because I'm an alt monkey.
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F-4 or the G-6...love em both
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109K
Because I'm an alt monkey.
[/quote
+1 :)
F-4 or the G-6...love em both
I like the F4 better! :aok
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Which is your favorite, and tell me why!
G6. Most challenging of the lot (with the Emil a close second), so more gratifying when you manage to hold your own.
- oldman
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G6. Most challenging of the lot (with the Emil a close second), so more gratifying when you manage to hold your own.
- oldman
I'd have to agree, after all I get my butt kicked without getting a shot in that thing.
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I like all 109s. The look so pretty I'm my gun sight. I also like them with sweet mustard.
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The best Mossie is a Mossie with a tater in the fuselage :old:
:devil
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K, G14, F, G6, G2, E in that order. They are all sexy. :cheers:
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K, G14, F, G6, G2, E in that order. They are all sexy. :cheers:
:cheers:
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Liked the G6 but the D9 is much prettyer :aok
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I love the Dora too....if it wasn't for that darn glass radiator.
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I love the Dora too....if it wasn't for that darn glass radiator.
yup. Shes still lovely though ;)
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glass radiator is much reduced thanks to Pervert's investigation and proof that a spinner hit was a hit on the radiator
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F4, because it's a compact piece of kick-ass.
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In terms of flight handling the Bf109F-4 was the pinnacle of Bf109 development. Obviously the later Gs and the K are better warplanes, but they are much less pleasant to fly.
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In terms of flight handling the Bf109F-4 was the pinnacle of Bf109 development. Obviously the later Gs and the K are better warplanes, but they are much less pleasant to fly.
Yep, and it was the favorite of most Luftwaffe men who flew them all as well.
I like them all in game.
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glass radiator is much reduced thanks to Pervert's investigation and proof that a spinner hit was a hit on the radiator
Wouldn't that almost always require a hit to the prop?
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The later models were interceptors :( and no fun
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G-2 by a hair over the F-4.
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G-2 by a hair over the F-4.
Same here, G2 has a better engine :)
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K-4 because of the
(http://www.realmenlifestyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/power.jpg)
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109F-4 and 109G-2 respectively... My two favorites.
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It depends:
E-4 because it's the prettiest and most fun to land kills in
F-4 because it's a wicked good turnfighter
G-2 because its good all around
K-4 because I play in the LWMA
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109E, No German fighter can match the looks of the early 109s.
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It depends:
E-4 because it's the prettiest and most fun to land kills in
F-4 because it's a wicked good turnfighter
G-2 because its good all around
K-4 because I play in the LWMA
:aok
K-4 because of the
(http://www.realmenlifestyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/power.jpg)
Now Brooke, both the power in the guns and engine? Or one or the other? :)
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109E, No German fighter can match the looks of the early 109s.
I think every 109 with the curved wingtips look better. :old:
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K-4 because of the
(http://www.realmenlifestyle.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/power.jpg)
You stole my saying :(
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My favorite is the G2, as I feel it's the most balanced of the set, then I go the the two extremes F4 and K4. 109's are only second in my comfort zone to the F4U series, especially the 3 mentioned.
:salute
BigRat
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:aok
Now Brooke, both the power in the guns and engine? Or one or the other? :)
I was thinking more the power of its vital essence, of which engine and guns are only two physical manifestations. :aok
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You stole my saying :(
Apologies. If you are ever in the Seattle area, let me know, and I will buy you a beer as recompense. :aok
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All you 109 pilots are tards who need big engines to run.
The Brewster is clearly superior to all, anyway.
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All you 109 pilots are tards who need big engines to run.
The Brewster is clearly superior to all, anyway.
Yes, and they've got square canopies to accommodate block heads :old:
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any 109 model spiraling to ground after i blast its wing off :bolt:
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any 109 model spiraling to ground after i blast its wing off :bolt:
lynch this dude (like a chelsea fan in a united sector) :devil
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Favorites are the G2 w/ gondolas and the G14 with the 30mm. The G2, becouse it turns almost as well as the F, even with the gondolas and the G14, becouse it has the 30mm and can fight other is easier to fight in than the K4.
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I'll have you know that my block head fits nicely under many canopies, not just 109's; and my running skill is great enough to work even in some planes without big engines.
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any 109 model spiraling to ground after i blast its wing off :bolt:
Well, ray....
All Japanese aircraft < 109's :rock :D
lynch this dude (like a chelsea fan in a united sector) :devil
:lol
Favorites are the G2 w/ gondolas and the G14 with the 30mm. The G2, becouse it turns almost as well as the F, even with the gondolas and the G14, becouse it has the 30mm and can fight other is easier to fight in than the K4.
Gondies decrease agility and speed :old:
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Much as I loved trying to learn the 109, I was never good as vOid or the Muppets when it comes to the Tater.
The view is simply just to terrible for me to even say I had a favorite model, if it was anything, the 109-G2.
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The K4, although it is a love/hate relationship. Some days I'm a sniper with the tater and other days I couldn't hit a barn from the inside. :cry
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ki84 > 109s
a6ms > 109s
ki43 > 109s
p38 > all WW2 and present aircraft (yep even that fancy f22)
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ki84 > 109s
a6ms > 109s
ki43 > 109s
p38 > all WW2 and present aircraft (yep even that fancy f22)
??Could we get an explanation? I'm thinkin your saying 109's eat those other planes and everyting eats the P-38.
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The K4, although it is a love/hate relationship. Some days I'm a sniper with the tater and other days I couldn't hit a barn from the inside. :cry
Close the barn doors dude!
ki84 > 109s
a6ms > 109s
ki43 > 109s
p38 > all WW2 and present aircraft (yep even that fancy f22)
Illogical Captain.
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109f and K4 :)
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G6 for me. Kind of squirrely handling. It seems for lack of a better word, "pointable".
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109f and K4 :)
:aok
G6 for me. Kind of squirrely handling. It seems for lack of a better word, "pointable".
Yay another G6 pilot! :aok
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G6. Once you've gotten familiar with it, she's a monster. Gun package is the sales pitch.
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The K4 is an interesting airplane. Get anything to co-E with you and you pretty much own it cause it cant climb with you. I dont have much experience with them but a week ago I went fast into a group of 24's and boy that 30mm makes an impression. I went in fast and just waited till the bomber filled my gun sight and "Boom"! Pretty impressive.
Never flew the G14. Never even knew it could climb with the K4.
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The K4 is an interesting airplane. Get anything to co-E with you and you pretty much own it cause it cant climb with you. I dont have much experience with them but a week ago I went fast into a group of 24's and boy that 30mm makes an impression. I went in fast and just waited till the bomber filled my gun sight and "Boom"! Pretty impressive.
Never flew the G14. Never even knew it could climb with the K4.
Yup the K4 has a great engine and great gun (if you can get a hit :)), and outclimbs pretty much anything, and it stalls at a rather slow speed since it can hang up there for a good while.
And on that G14, it has a rather similar engine to the K4, just a slight bit inferior, and it isn't too noticeable at most times.
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Only real difference is the blower. If we had a G-14/AS (high altitude version) the engine would be identical except for designation. The rest of the aircraft would be almost identical too.
Bf 109G-14/AS
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/109G-14-AS.jpg)
Bf 109K-4
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/109K-4.jpg)
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Only real difference is the blower. If we had a G-14/AS (high altitude version) the engine would be identical except for designation. The rest of the aircraft would be almost identical too.
Bf 109G-14/AS
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/109G-14-AS.jpg)
Bf 109K-4
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/109K-4.jpg)
We'd need a G14 ASM as our G14 has MW50 for boost and the reason it will climb with the K4 up to about 6k or so.
I'd really like to see a G6AS and a G14ASM,this would balance out the 8th airforce events nicely!
:salute
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ASM yes. Forgot about the MW50. Brain fart.
I have advocated for the inclusion of AS models for a long time now. They're really needed for just about every 1944 scenario and campaign set in Western Europe.
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ASM yes. Forgot about the MW50. Brain fart.
I have advocated for the inclusion of AS models for a long time now. They're really needed for just about every 1944 scenario and campaign set in Western Europe.
We'd need a G14 ASM as our G14 has MW50 for boost and the reason it will climb with the K4 up to about 6k or so.
I'd really like to see a G6AS and a G14ASM,this would balance out the 8th airforce events nicely!
:salute
+1 Is like to see these.
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I like them all, and fly them all so its very difficult to pick a favorite.
+1 to adding the AS models.
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I like them all, and fly them all so its very difficult to pick a favorite.
+1 to adding the AS models.
[/quote
Same thing here! I only picked the K4 as my 1st favorite and G14 as my 2nd because I fly those most often, and I greatly appreciate the awesomeness that comes with them. :)
But out of all, I can't say which is best or which is truly most fun to fly. :(
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^^^ :bhead
I like them all, and fly them all so its very difficult to pick a favorite.
+1 to adding the AS models.
Same thing here! I only picked the K4 as my 1st favorite and G14 as my 2nd because I fly those most often, and I greatly appreciate the awesomeness that comes with them. :)
But out of all, I can't say which is best or which is truly most fun to fly. :(
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But out of all, I can't say which is best or which is truly most fun to fly
That's a good thing.
When I can pry myself from the 190's I fly them(109's) mission specific.
F-4/G-2 - short notice base defense - defending against enemy carrier close offshore - close base/short flight proximity furball actions.
G-6 - when you want to challenge yourself, and look sexy doing it.
G-14 - love this plane. Really enjoy smacking bombers with the 3x20mil guns.
K-4 - anything.
Willie's finest for sure.
:airplane:
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I flew a G14 for the first time yesterday. I didnt get a shot at anything but I didnt find the heavy gun package particularly cumbersome. The fighter seemed agile.
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I flew a G14 for the first time yesterday. I didnt get a shot at anything but I didnt find the heavy gun package particularly cumbersome. The fighter seemed agile.
I have been flying the P-38 and before that the Spitfire's, recently I started messing around in the BF109's and I am shocked by the nimblness of them all (havent tried the K yet though), the 109's seem amazingly responsive especially over the top of a loop, Im suddenly understanding how they beat me there all the time. The other thing I like is having the guns in the nose, thats where they should be in my opinion. The last couple nights I have been in the G14 and I love the maneuverability/quickness ratio you get with it. Amazing birds!!
What do you more knowledgable fellas think about the flight modeling? Is it accurate, and where the 109's really this good? Everything I have ever read descriobes them as less than they seem to be here.
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What do you more knowledgable fellas think about the flight modeling? Is it accurate, and where the 109's really this good? Everything I have ever read descriobes them as less than they seem to be here.
AcesHigh has got the 109 series pretty much as I'd expect.
I've always found the slats inaccurate to what I have seen, heard, read.
I'm of the opinion that they didn't just snap out, especially on later models.
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I've read that they went "bang" when deploying or retracting.
They were free-sliding, so they snapped out or in depending on the air-pressure distribution over them.
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If the pilot was gentle they deployed with the air pressure slowly.
They were ball bearing slats, they only go BaNg! in hard G where the air pressure is changing rapidly.
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If the pilot was gentle they deployed with the air pressure slowly.
They were ball bearing slats, they only go BaNg! in hard G where the air pressure is changing rapidly.
The main aspect of the physics of it is that there is no damping in the mechanism. Think of an ice cube in a glass tray. It starts at one end. You tilt it. As you hit a particular angle, the ice cube slides across the tray and goes "tink" into the other side, and vice versa when you tilt it the opposite way. If you were exceedingly careful and increased your tilt a miniscule bit at a time, you might be able to get the ice cube to slide slowly to the other side, but I don't think the 109 pilot would be that incremental and delicate in practical cases of maneuvering.
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ASM yes. Forgot about the MW50. Brain fart.
I have advocated for the inclusion of AS models for a long time now. They're really needed for just about every 1944 scenario and campaign set in Western Europe.
I noticed in the pix you posted that the AS version is rated for C3 fuel but the K4 is rated for B4 fuel.
I thought the K4's used C3 but I'm not totally sure,just seems strange,I guess the C3 fuel was used to resist detonation at higher alts???
:salute
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Your ice cube analogy is ok, but without the aerodynamic air pressure changing, utterly irrelevant.
Regardless of anything you want to argue me on, it should absolutely be possible to gently deploy the slats in flight, which it isn't in the realm of AcesHigh.
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It seems to me like the air pressure itself would be the dampening mechanism for the slats.
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G-2 was the best 109.... k4 most practical for the MA.
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Your ice cube analogy is ok, but without the aerodynamic air pressure changing, utterly irrelevant.
Regardless of anything you want to argue me on, it should absolutely be possible to gently deploy the slats in flight, which it isn't in the realm of AcesHigh.
Anyone with a background in engineering or physics would disagree with you on your first point. The math of the dynamics is the same.
As for the second point, regardless of any analysis of the physics of the situation (which I am very comfortable with), there are lots of quotes from 109 pilots about the slats popping open. Do you have any descriptions on the slats moving gradually, or is that your own feeling that they should?
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E: poor response to the controls, feels heavy and sluggish, so much different from anything else
F: nimble little killer, balanced all around and flies like a dream. The torque is a bit weak though.
G2: just like an F on steroids, somewhat heavyer though
G6: steadier and heavier G2.
G14: G6 with a huge wep. Never could fly it, the huge torque kick when engaging the wep makes the post-stall moves difficult.
K4: meet the monster. The most predictable, also it can do some torque moves other planes cannot even dream about. Its snap-stall is unmatched.
D9: K4 with less turn rate
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I noticed in the pix you posted that the AS version is rated for C3 fuel but the K4 is rated for B4 fuel.
I thought the K4's used C3 but I'm not totally sure,just seems strange,I guess the C3 fuel was used to resist detonation at higher alts???
:salute
The vast majority of K-4s used B4 fuel simply because the BMW powered 190A's needed the C3 so they got priority. The 109's Mercedes Benz could run on B4 at lower boost pressures, so they had to make due with the lower grade fuel. The K-4's DB 605D engine could use both B4 and C3 fuel; changing between fuels was just a matter of tuning the engine and could be done by the squadron mechanics. In AH we have the B4 variant with 1800 hp. With C3 fuel it would have had 2000 hp.
I've long advocated the inclusion of C3 fueled 109s, as well as 150 octane fuel for select allied late-war rides. They would all be perked of course, but it would be very nice to have them anyways. In addition Bf 109E-4/N with C3 and Spitfire I/II with 100 octane would be nice to have.
C3 was very resistant to detonation yes, close to or on par with allied 100/150 octane avgas. Altitude is not relevant, only the boost pressure. With C3 the engine could be run at higher manifold pressures. I.e. more fuel and air per piston stroke makes more hp. MW50 (50/50 water and alcohol) injection was also used as an anti-knocking agent allowing higher boost pressures.
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E: poor response to the controls, feels heavy and sluggish, so much different from anything else
F: nimble little killer, balanced all around and flies like a dream. The torque is a bit weak though.
G2: just like an F on steroids, somewhat heavyer though
G6: steadier and heavier G2.
G14: G6 with a huge wep. Never could fly it, the huge torque kick when engaging the wep makes the post-stall moves difficult.
K4: meet the monster. The most predictable, also it can do some torque moves other planes cannot even dream about. Its snap-stall is unmatched.
D9: K4 with less turn rate
A lot less?? :D
I can't fly 190's very we'll at all. :old:
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Anyone with a background in engineering or physics would disagree with you on your first point. The math of the dynamics is the same.
As for the second point, regardless of any analysis of the physics of the situation (which I am very comfortable with), there are lots of quotes from 109 pilots about the slats popping open. Do you have any descriptions on the slats moving gradually, or is that your own feeling that they should?
My engineering background ended 10 years ago. The problem with your analogy is that is momentum, which is why I believe it to be irrelevant, the aero dynamics involved are missing.
Yes pilots do mention the pop, but it's always the same, during combat. In combat the pilots pushed the plane around reducing the air pressure dramatically.
Either way, as I said, it should absolutely be possible to gently deploy the slats in flight, which it isn't in the realm of AcesHigh.
Have you ever seen the film of the slats being maintained? There's a chap sliding them.
Have you seen a film of the slats in a wind tunnel? They don't just pop out when tilted.
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blabla....
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Slats deploy purely in response to AOA. G load is not a factor. The air pressure at the slat changes with increased AOA and the slats pop out.
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Thanks FLS, the sky is blue.
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The only exception I've seen to quick deployment is Franz Stigler saying that at high altitudes near the stall there is partial deployment.
Slat deployment is often associated with speeds and radial g but it's just the critical AOA that would otherwise cause a stall that causes the slats to suddenly pop out and increase max AOA and CLmax.
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The real problem with the slats on the 109 is not modeled in AH. That issue being asymmetric deployment. In turns at low speeds, the forces on each wing are different and the slats extend independantly and unpredictably, which can have severe effects on the handling. In Aces High, the slats extend and retract in unison.
Of course this is true of any aircraft with unpowered slats. In fact, when the Blue Angles converted to the A-4 Skyhawk they bolted the slats closed to prevent unexpected deployment while in close formation.
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The problem with your analogy is that is momentum, which is why I believe it to be irrelevant, the aero dynamics involved are missing.
No. Both have mass and momentum. Both are governed by F = m * a - Fr, where Fr (friction) is exceedingly small. That was the point of my analogy. The only way these things move slowly is if F is approximately equal to Fr, and hence nearly zero. In the case of the slat, that happens when the pressure differential across the slat is balanced at nearly zero, which of course isn't the case during maneuvering, although you could probably manage it with precise control of conditions in a wind tunnel.
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In Aces High, the slats extend and retract in unison.
It is possible to get them to extend independently.
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G-14. I dont always want taters, and the gondies make for fun furball fights :devil
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Asymmetric slat deployment was only a problem in the 109E because it led to aileron snatching. In later models it didn't.
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A few years ago when I flew as Madman I made a video showcasing the 109F:
http://vimeo.com/65754842
:joystick: :cheers:
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A few years ago when I flew as Madman I made a video showcasing the 109F:
http://vimeo.com/65754842
:joystick: :cheers:
Some of us know this is a film by Rogerdee.
Are you passing off his work as your own?
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Lol? ... I hope that's a joke. :huh
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I certainly hope you are joking.
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I made that video when i was flying as Madman, or rather uvwpvW.
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I downloaded it and have had a file of it on my PC since April 2012, which I got from here http://www.rogerdee.co.uk/id2.html
Look closely, he credits a film he didn't create, but not the one you say is your own. I for one am baffled.
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Rogerdee hosts my video on his site. That's OK by me, but it doesn't make it his.
Here:
ok i up loaded this to my web site for you to down load i hope the maker doesnt mind
http://www.rogerdee.co.uk/films/Old_School_German_Iron.wmv (http://www.rogerdee.co.uk/films/Old_School_German_Iron.wmv)
feel free to browse my site and let me know what you think
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,191001.15.html
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And to be blunt why would you think Rogerdee would make a video and use the name uvwpvW in it? :huh
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And to be blunt why would you think Rogerdee would make a video and use the name uvwpvW in it? :huh
Easy; the page top is "My Films" no credit like one next to it. People/things change names, I for one will not be carrying on the 20Dolby10 banner for much longer.
Good film though :)
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Thanks :)
Made this one back in AH1 days before Scholzy got Skuzzyfied the first time (Iraq war O'Club mayhem): https://vimeo.com/58005024
I've been in 109s for... ... 12 years now. I'm old. :frown:
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I've been in 109s for... ... 12 years now. I'm old. :frown:
Your virtual 12 year old is only a teenager! ;)
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In reality, for the 262, did the slats also extend independently or were they improved?
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K4 !
DB 605 is a beast, climbs like a V2, and the machine remains very controlable, even at 28k...
Ofc, over 28k, the 152 remains the king -of fighters-... :salute
(http://i57.tinypic.com/34z0jlz.jpg)
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In reality, for the 262, did the slats also extend independently or were they improved?
They were independent. No need to improve them as they worked well. Aileron snatching caused by asymmetric deployment of the slats was a problem on the Emil, but they redesigned the wing on the Friedrich.
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They were independent. No need to improve them as they worked well. Aileron snatching caused by asymmetric deployment of the slats was a problem on the Emil, but they redesigned the wing on the Friedrich.
I see I thought maybe the jittering in one direction caused by independent deployment was something they'd wanna fix, but like you said, nope! :)
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Common mistake. Slats don't add lift, so there is no "jittering" if one deploys and not the other. Slats just delay stall allowing higher angles of attack before stalling.
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Common mistake. Slats don't add lift, so there is no "jittering" if one deploys and not the other. Slats just delay stall allowing higher angles of attack before stalling.
Ok, now I truly understand. But I'm confused as to that movement caused by them when they deploy in AH is unrealistic?
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Ok, now I truly understand But I'm confused as to that movement caused by them when they deploy in AH is unrealistic?
As to how it works in real life.
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I can't say I've noticed any movement of the aircraft in AH when the slats deploy.
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I can't say I've noticed any movement of the aircraft in AH when the slats deploy.
You haven't??
That's why I used the word "jittering" to describe it when the slats deploy.
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It's been a while since I've played, but I can't remember noticing it. Perhaps I'm just used to it.
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It's been a while since I've played, but I can't remember noticing it. Perhaps I'm just used to it.
Makes sense, I don't recall it happening to me in the past few days either, know it has of course.
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In real life there was a shock from the mass of the slats suddenly being slammed against the stops, and that was felt in the stick (and probably the whole airframe) and the sound could be heard over the engine's roar, but the aircraft didn't change direction in any way.
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Makes sense, I don't recall it happening to me in the past few days either, know it has of course.
didnt notice it happening in the 109g6 yesterday either u know before u guys rudely ganged it and blew it to a million pieces :cheers:
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In real life there was a shock from the mass of the slats suddenly being slammed against the stops, and that was felt in the stick (and probably the whole airframe) and the sound could be heard over the engine's roar, but the aircraft didn't change direction in any way.
Oh yeah it doesn't change direction at all it simply causes the wings to rock side to side when they deploy/retract. It can only momentarily mess up one's aim.
didnt notice it happening in the 109g6 yesterday either u know before u guys rudely ganged it and blew it to a million pieces :cheers:
:D :)
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OK I have to ask. You P-38 experts come across a 109K4 who is as good as you. Co-Alt, Co-energy....ect
How do you fight them? You K4 experten? Feel free to explain your tactics visa-versa.
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Oh yeah it doesn't change direction at all it simply causes the wings to rock side to side when they deploy/retract. It can only momentarily mess up one's aim.
:D :)
https://vimeo.com/94453103
At 0:45 you can see the slats open. It's not that big an event really. Great film btw.
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I always get a minor wobble when the slats open, if they don't open at the same time. Pretty smooth when both open at the same time.
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I always get a minor wobble when the slats open, if they don't open at the same time. Pretty smooth when both open at the same time.
Scholz showed me via that video that the slats cause no movement of the aircraft upon deployment. And I'm still supposing that this feature in AH is incorrect since they deploy only a split second before/after each other.
OK I have to ask. You P-38 experts come across a 109K4 who is as good as you. Co-Alt, Co-energy....ect
How do you fight them? You K4 experten? Feel free to explain your tactics visa-versa.
I'm no P38 pilot, but to be in a K4 the last thing I'd want to do is try and out turn him. I'd rather get the fight to slow speeds where that heavy 38 doesn't fare so well.
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Scholz showed me via that video that the slats cause no movement of the aircraft upon deployment. And I'm still supposing that this feature in AH is incorrect since they deploy only a split second before/after each other.
I'm no P38 pilot, but to be in a K4 the last thing I'd want to do is try and out turn him. I'd rather get the fight to slow speeds where that heavy 38 doesn't fare so well.
Out climb
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I'm not sure what tactic the P-38 can employ to defeat the 109K. It seems very one sided from a performance perspective. Pilot skill can make a difference of course, but with equal skill and initial E-state the P-38 is at an almost insurmountable disadvantage. There probably are a few tricks the P-38 can use given its torqueless engine setup, but he would have to be very good and very lucky. If caught in a bad situation the 109 can just disengage at will and reset the encounter.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=1&p2=18&pw=1>ype=0&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=1&p2=18&pw=1>ype=2&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
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I'm not sure what tactic the P-38 can employ to defeat the 109K. It seems very one sided from a performance perspective. Pilot skill can make a difference of course, but with equal skill and initial E-state the P-38 is at an almost insurmountable disadvantage. There probably are a few tricks the P-38 can use given its torqueless engine setup, but he would have to be very good and very lucky. If caught in a bad situation the 109 can just disengage at will and reset the encounter.
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=1&p2=18&pw=1>ype=0&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
(http://www.hitechcreations.com/components/com_ahplaneperf/genchart.php?p1=1&p2=18&pw=1>ype=2&gui=localhost&itemsel=GameData)
After the P38 is slow the 109 basically has the fight IMO, the 38 just doesn't have better handling. Especially when it's heavy on fuel.
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The P38 can hang on the props and ruin the K4s day. Always be wary of that fact.
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idk whenever im in a p38 vs a k4 i try and get the fight slow becuase if they try and turn there dead and what most k4 pilots do is try and go up but the p38 can really hang so i just go up with them and shoot them down
After the P38 is slow the 109 basically has the fight IMO, the 38 just doesn't have better handling. Especially when it's heavy on fuel.
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So theres nothing you can do in a particular speed envelope, using the 38s flaps, to gain and advantage? Or at least a snap shot?
Actually Ive been spending a little time in K4s. The thing can accurately be described as a BEAST!
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So theres nothing you can do in a particular speed envelope, using the 38s flaps, to gain and advantage? Or at least a snap shot?
If u kick out the 1st flap in the 1st immelman of the merge sometimes you can get an oppurtinity for a good snapshot
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idk whenever im in a p38 vs a k4 i try and get the fight slow becuase if they try and turn there dead and what most k4 pilots do is try and go up but the p38 can really hang so i just go up with them and shoot them down
109K-4 out turns the 38. However most K-4 pilots aren't very good.
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So theres nothing you can do in a particular speed envelope, using the 38s flaps, to gain and advantage? Or at least a snap shot?
Actually Ive been spending a little time in K4s. The thing can accurately be described as a BEAST!
It all depends on pilot skill. Most K-4 pilots aren't very good, but you have the odds stacked against you. If you're in the 38L you have better roll rate and control authority at high speed, but it is difficult to use that offensively.
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The P38 can hang on the props and ruin the K4s day. Always be wary of that fact.
Well I never knew that, I thought it was a fat pig like jugs. :old:
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109K-4 out turns the 38. However most K-4 pilots aren't very good.
Never seen a 109k4 outturn a p38 hell i havent seen any 109 besides the F model do it (possible g2)
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Never seen a 109k4 outturn a p38 hell i havent seen any 109 besides the F model do it (possible g2)
P-38J/L is one of the worst turning aircraft in the game. All the 109s out turn it. The following is the sustained turning performance of the P-38L vs 109K:
BF 109K-4 25% fuel
Radius: 706 feet / 534 feet (full flaps)
DPS: 19.6
P-38L 25% fuel
Radius: 820 feet / 630 feet (full flaps)
DPS: 18.9
The 109K-4 even out turns the P-38G, albeit by a smaller margin.
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never trap myself in a huge long turn fight with them because within the time it takes to drop down to 180-200 mph had plenty of time within there turn to shoot them down. I believe full flap turns with the p38 makes it a worse turner then with 1-2 flaps out could be wrong though
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Yeah, I think you're wrong.
Edit: Sorry if I'm a bit abrupt. No offense intended. :)
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I believe full flap turns with the p38 makes it a worse turner then with 1-2 flaps out could be wrong though
That's correct. Flaps generally add more lift than drag for the first 50% of deployment after which it's more drag than lift. The maneuvering setting for the P-38 was half extended. With 2 notches of flaps the P-38L in AH will turn over 20 dps at 180mph and with 3 notches over 20 dps at 165mph.
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The turn radius will be bigger. Try it.
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A few years ago when I flew as Madman I made a video showcasing the 109F:
http://vimeo.com/65754842
:joystick: :cheers:
Very good video thanks for posting. I love the 109s. :aok
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109E, No German fighter can match the looks of the early 109s.
I also think the 109E models were the prettiest of all the 109s. The 109E the Spitfire and the P51s were the best looking planes of WWII in my humble opinion. :)
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Oh yes! GScholz, I forgot to ask! What was the name of that movie in the video??
:salute
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K4
Fastest 109, so you can run down the ponies, spits, F4Us, yaks, Lalas, and everything else.
Will out climb everything in the game, so getting to alt to get the buffs is short work.
30mm makes everything go boom. Best weapon in the air.
Best visibility of any 109.
:salute
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K4
Fastest 109, so you can run down the ponies, spits, F4Us, yaks, Lalas, and everything else.
Will out climb everything in the game, so getting to alt to get the buffs is short work.
30mm makes everything go boom. Best weapon in the air.
Best visibility of any 109.
:salute
+1. My favorite also!
Although the G14 and K4 have visibility equivalent to each other :old:
:salute
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Oh yes! GScholz, I forgot to ask! What was the name of that movie in the video??
:salute
If you mean the one with the 109 slat deployment is is Dark Blue World. It follows a couple of Czech pilots that join the RAF after Czechoslovakia is invaded by Germany.
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Very good video thanks for posting. I love the 109s. :aok
:)
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The turn radius will be bigger. Try it.
That's correct. The P-38 will improve it's turn rate but it's smallest radius with flaps is close to the K4 clean. The K4 has the clear advantage in the one circle fight and the vertical two circle. The P-38 advantage is the balanced torque that let's you maneuver against the K4 torque in a stall fight.
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Although the G14 and K4 have visibility equivalent to each other :old:
(http://i1114.photobucket.com/albums/k526/rwrk2/G-14--K-4-Bulges.gif) (http://s1114.photobucket.com/user/rwrk2/media/G-14--K-4-Bulges.gif.html)
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I love 'em. All of them! :lol
Besides being darn pretty, it's quite a complete family of aircraft. For the occasional furball I take the G2 without gunpods, or the F4 if I want something more nimble. To defend strats I usually take a G-14 with a drop tank, 75% fuel and the 3x20mm. The taters are more lethal but don't share the 20mm's ballistics, and I really can't shoot taters... :uhoh
When there's a bomber formation nearing an airfield I'll take the K4 for the fast climb, this beast simply can't be out-climbed by anything other than a 163! But then again, if the cons aren't B-24s there's a big chance they'll make it home :bhead
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But then again, if the cons aren't B-24s there's a big chance they'll make it home :bhead
I prefer Lancasters as the most fun and easiest to shoot down. :)
I also like how you choose each 109 based on what their purpose was. But me... I just used the K4 and G14 for anything. :)
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G-14... It's got the erla haube hood, the flexible weapons packages, good speed, a decent turn rate, excellent vertical performance and 20mil ballistics...
I like the f-4, too, but why, oh why can I not have an historically accurate field mod to junk that damn headrest?
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That's a good thing.
When I can pry myself from the 190's I fly them(109's) mission specific.
F-4/G-2 - short notice base defense - defending against enemy carrier close offshore - close base/short flight proximity furball actions.
G-6 - when you want to challenge yourself, and look sexy doing it.
G-14 - love this plane. Really enjoy smacking bombers with the 3x20mil guns.
K-4 - anything.
Willie's finest for sure.
:airplane:
+1
:salute,
Stampf
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I found this which I am sure most of you have already seen, but I enjoyed the read and think it is quite informative.
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/articles/109myths/
Makes good sense to me as well. Considering the aces this aircraft produced it couldnt have been as bad as "popular history" claims.
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I found this which I am sure most of you have already seen, but I enjoyed the read and think it is quite informative.
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/articles/109myths/
Makes good sense to me as well. Considering the aces this aircraft produced it couldnt have been as bad as "popular history" claims.
Thanks for sharing! :aok
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I found this which I am sure most of you have already seen, but I enjoyed the read and think it is quite informative.
http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/articles/109myths/
Makes good sense to me as well. Considering the aces this aircraft produced it couldnt have been as bad as "popular history" claims.
Excellent link! Thank you. :aok
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I'm finding myself flying more and more the K-4, it's a real beast! After setting the convergence to 350 it's easier to score hits...sometimes :P. Having a rudder would help a lot, but my aging X-52 is on its last legs :cry.
By the way, didn't the K-4 carry gondolas and a bomb rack? I remember reading Galland's account of the G-10 being a better fighter, since its lack of gondolas made it more nimble. Or I could be entirely mistaken.
I probably am.
Lumumba for breakfast wasn't the best choice.
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I want to present you the greatest of all aviation abominations. What happens when you mix this ingredients, in a post-war dictatorship country where the latest fad is the autogyro? :uhoh
Bf-109G airframe
Merlin 500/45
2 Hispanos
Rocket launchers
413mph
5577ft/min climb
33K ceiling
I present you...the Buchón!
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lNnYTuGnxg8/T_WIu14BFnI/AAAAAAAAT50/MV1pvMJ9lbE/s1600/HA-1112M-1L+Buchon+C.4K+6.jpg)
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EW EW EW, kill it quick! ME no likey :cry
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And if Dora and Gustaf had a child it would be this bastard...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Avia-S199-hatzerim-2.jpg)
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And if Dora and Gustaf had a child it would be this bastard...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Avia-S199-hatzerim-2.jpg)
Oh geez! :lol
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They're all sexy :aok
:cheers: Oz
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just getting around to reading that article now Nimrod.
Did you happen to notice this: Me 109 D:
"The longer one is at the flying business, the more firmly convinced he becomes that he knows very little about it. I must say, however, the Messerschmitt Me109 is the finest airplane I have ever flown.
Along with its delightful flight characteristics, the visibility in this Messerschmitt is all that a fighter pilot could reasonably ask. There are a great many single-seater fighters in the world that I have not flown, but I had formed my opinion of the flight characteristics of the Messerschmitt after studying it on the ground and before flying it. And those estimates were confirmed in flight. I had made my own estimates of the performance and maneuverability characteristics of a lot of other single-seater fighters, and I'd be willing to wager that none of them represent the general, all-around flight and fighting characteristics possessed by the Me109."
- US Marine Corps major Al Williams. Source: Bf 109D test flight, 1938. [/u][/color]
A Dora in '38 :headscratch:
edit: ehhhh nevermind, my brain not working...
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A dead 109 :)
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One thing 109G-series should be able do, but don't in AH: they had higher terminal speed than the P51d (not B), many American pilots confirmed the bubble canopy disturbed airflow, and made the plane so unstable they had to break off, before they could catch a 109G.
Another note : the flaps deployment speed of the 109G is much higher than in AH.
One story was when the Finnish 109G pilot (Edvald Estama) pulled out of a 950km/h dive using flaps to be able to pull out of a dive ( since it does not have steps, like in AH).
The 10% flaps could be deployed beyond 500km/h and 20% at 450km/h
Here is a link to the flaps chart for the 109G6 :
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2086/2274853909_9421e9bf85_o.jpg
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G6 is by far my favourite, after that it's the G2
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And if Dora and Gustaf had a child it would be this bastard...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Avia-S199-hatzerim-2.jpg)
What is that?
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What is that?
Avia S-199 " for use during the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Czechoslovak pilots nicknamed it Mezek ("Mule"), while in Israel it was officially known as the Sakeen ("knife" in Hebrew). In practice, the aircraft was more often called Messerschmitt or Messer (which also means "knife", in German and Yiddish)"
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Not sure if this has been posted before, https://www.flickr.com/photos/28092068@N03/
4568 photos, mostly of 109s
also some interesting photos of construction
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Excellent post Milo. :aok
Lots of skinning potential in there. :rock
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I want to present you the greatest of all aviation abominations. What happens when you mix this ingredients, in a post-war dictatorship country where the latest fad is the autogyro? :uhoh
Bf-109G airframe
Merlin 500/45
2 Hispanos
Rocket launchers
413mph
5577ft/min climb
33K ceiling
I present you...the Buchón!
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lNnYTuGnxg8/T_WIu14BFnI/AAAAAAAAT50/MV1pvMJ9lbE/s1600/HA-1112M-1L+Buchon+C.4K+6.jpg)
That frankenstein creation takes the 109s beauty and just butchers it, but you just can't argue with that performance! Imagine if they used a 109F airframe! :devil
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The thread has returned... :noid
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The thread has returned... :noid
:x
:banana:
Now if only it were about 190s :D
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:x
:banana:
Now if only it were about 190s :D
I wanna start one on 190's now. :cry
Should I? :old: