Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Tinkles on May 07, 2014, 06:07:11 PM

Title: Decent computer?
Post by: Tinkles on May 07, 2014, 06:07:11 PM
Me and my Boss looked up a computer, but I didn't get a good look at the picture. He is a partner to the website so he gets a discount, and only those with certain credentials get in (I don't meet them  :D ). But I still have the specs, but no idea if the case is big enough for the graphics card I have.

Specs are as follows

Asus Essentro Desktop PC

3rd Gen i5 3.0 GHz Processor
8 GB Ram
1 TB Hard Drive
Windows 7 Pro 64 Bit

$615-$625 USD including tax and shipping.

Does anyone know the size of the case that comes with this? Would it be big enough to hold a Nvidia GT8800?

 I seen this other computer, (link below) just browsing and wanted to know if it would be good enough / upgradeable.



http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2546170&csid=


Is it good for skyrim/Farcry 3 on high settings?  What components stand out to you as being good/bad etc.  And (for both computers) what graphics card do you recommend me upgrade to from the Nvidia GT8800?


I just wanted to get some advice from the tech gurus of these forums, since the time is looming ever closer for me to get my computer .   :D

Edit: 

Or would it be better for me to get this one?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8182698&csid=_61
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: morfiend on May 07, 2014, 07:05:04 PM
 first,


 this would be better than either you posted!

  http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8433453&Sku=I455-G1318



  If you hurry it's even cheaper than the second machine which has a next to useless 24GB ssd,wont even hold the OS..... :rolleyes:


  As for the first unit,yes you can fit a 8800 in it but why would you do that?  It also has only a 500 watt PSU of suspect quality that will limit any upgrades in the future.


   Check my link,for 850$$ that a smoking fast machine!


   :salute
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Tinkles on May 07, 2014, 07:29:47 PM
first,


 this would be better than either you posted!

  http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8433453&Sku=I455-G1318



  If you hurry it's even cheaper than the second machine which has a next to useless 24GB ssd,wont even hold the OS..... :rolleyes:


  As for the first unit,yes you can fit a 8800 in it but why would you do that?  It also has only a 500 watt PSU of suspect quality that will limit any upgrades in the future.


   Check my link,for 850$$ that a smoking fast machine!


   :salute

Confused on the mail in rebate PC trade in thing. Other than that it looks great.
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: morfiend on May 08, 2014, 01:17:44 AM
 Tink,I just did a quick search on the second link you supplied!   I didnt look at all the details,just the machine spects and the cost after rebate.

  I saw a 899$ price on the second machine you linked and thought if you're willing to spend that much I would see if anything in that price range would be better and the machine I linked to seems to have most the right stuff!

  I still think if you select the parts you want and have it assembled you can build a great machine for 800 bucks or so!


    :salute
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Bizman on May 08, 2014, 01:03:32 PM
Those brand name computers, be they aimed for gaming or less demanding purposes, always seem to be built to be used "as-is". By that I mean that the components are highly optimized to the build in question and almost any upgrading would mean changing more than just one component. They also may contain parts that are next to useless like the 24 GB SSD. I must admit that is a genial way to get rid of old hardware for a good price!

That said, you'd really save money by building or letting someone build a gaming computer from scratch, using selected components to ensure easy and affordable upgrading in the future.
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 08, 2014, 01:23:04 PM
Those brand name computers, be they aimed for gaming or less demanding purposes, always seem to be built to be used "as-is". By that I mean that the components are highly optimized to the build in question and almost any upgrading would mean changing more than just one component. They also may contain parts that are next to useless like the 24 GB SSD. I must admit that is a genial way to get rid of old hardware for a good price!

That said, you'd really save money by building or letting someone build a gaming computer from scratch, using selected components to ensure easy and affordable upgrading in the future.

The 24gb SSD may be just a cache.
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Bizman on May 09, 2014, 12:08:30 PM
The 24gb SSD may be just a cache.
You can call it what you want. I'd call it a gimmick. I may be wrong, but I think that equipping a mediocre computer with a small ssd for caching is simply a way to fool ignorant people who have heard about the ultimate speed of the ssd technology. But as I said, I may be wrong (again).
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 10, 2014, 12:57:58 AM
You can call it what you want. I'd call it a gimmick. I may be wrong, but I think that equipping a mediocre computer with a small ssd for caching is simply a way to fool ignorant people who have heard about the ultimate speed of the ssd technology. But as I said, I may be wrong (again).

No, the SSD read/write cache can improve the average throughput of a regular HDD by a large margin. They sell hybrid hdds for laptops that have 1Tb 5400rpm hdd and 8-16gb of ssd and there is a clear difference in performance for relatively low price.

The basic idea behind the cache is that usually people do not need to read/write more than a portion of their drive commonly. The caching algorithm analyses the use of the drive and stores the commonly used files on the ssd for fast access. It's completely transparent to the user so the only thing the user sees is faster access times regularly but normal speed when something out of the ordinary is done.

I mean, it's not going to be as fast as a real SSD solution but it's going to be somewhat better than no cache.
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Bizman on May 10, 2014, 04:19:27 AM
Now that you mentioned the hybrid hdd's: For what I've read, they really can make a difference, but only if you always use the same programs and files. I also can't help wondering what would happen if the ssd part broke down. Would the data on the platter be inaccessible?
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 10, 2014, 05:17:12 AM
Now that you mentioned the hybrid hdd's: For what I've read, they really can make a difference, but only if you always use the same programs and files. I also can't help wondering what would happen if the ssd part broke down. Would the data on the platter be inaccessible?

On a hybrid drive, possibly. On a software based caching like whats possible in the OPs case he will just lose the cache. I have a hybrid 1Tb drive in my older Macbook pro and a full SSD in the new one.

The reality is that most people continue using same files over and over again when they use the computer. People boot up -> boot files, people browse the internet -> browser files. People play -> game files. People do hobby (photo edit, music etc) -> application files. All that can fit in 24Gb if and when randomly accessed files such as photos, movies etc. are stored outside cache.
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Tinkles on May 10, 2014, 04:46:45 PM
*Gets in-between non-aggressive purse fight*

Just wanted to know if which of these two do you guys recommend?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8939091&CatId=114

or

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8939090&CatId=114

*ding ding*

BEGIN!
 :lol

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Bizman on May 11, 2014, 03:23:30 AM
Tough question, Tink, but here's what I think about those two:

The latter has a better video card especially thinking about the update we'll be getting in two weeks. BUT:

The former has a better breathing case which may double the life span of all of the components inside.

Does Tigerdirect allow modifications to get the best of both? There were some more tempting alternatives in the $849-899 price range, but then again they were all Windows 8 equipped...
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Tinkles on May 11, 2014, 01:19:10 PM
Tough question, Tink, but here's what I think about those two:

The latter has a better video card especially thinking about the update we'll be getting in two weeks. BUT:

The former has a better breathing case which may double the life span of all of the components inside.

Does Tigerdirect allow modifications to get the best of both? There were some more tempting alternatives in the $849-899 price range, but then again they were all Windows 8 equipped...


I know, that's the annoying thing. I loathe windows 8/8.1 with a passion. I would greatly prefer windows 7 over windows 8.

What computers caught your eye, even with windows 8/8.1  ?
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Bizman on May 11, 2014, 01:35:48 PM
If you don't really care if it's GeForce equipped, this one has the fastest processor: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8927527&CatId=1886 (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8927527&CatId=1886)
With a more powerful GeForce than what you suggested, this: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8433453&CatId=1886 (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8433453&CatId=1886)
Or this: http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8529719&CatId=1886 (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=8529719&CatId=1886)

I looked at the other brands Tigerdirect offers, but it looks like Ibuypower would give the best bang for the buck there. Anyway, I'd look for something equipped with a video card something like GeForce GTX 750 or higher with at least 2 GB of memory, and an Intel i5 @ 3 GHz or higher. Building it yourself or getting one built would give you more alternatives concerning operating system and other features within a given price range. You're on the right track with your suggestions, both price and quality wise for a longlife rig.  :aok

Oh, and if you aren't in a hurry, you might want to wait until the big update arrives. Although it is being coded and tested with quite low level equipment, the actual release will show what will be needed for smooth and solid fps with most eye candy. On the other hand, if you find a killer bargain for an ultimate rig you might as well take it now and enjoy the current game while waiting for the update, since you'll never know how long this two week waiting time will last. A good enough rig will certainly be satisfactory even after the update and the ones we've been discussing look like they would do the job.
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Tinkles on May 11, 2014, 03:51:56 PM
Thanks for the response Bizman, nice rigs.

I am confused though on the mail in rebate deal, how does that work exactly? And it says "requires PC TRADE IN", what does that mean?

Just need clarification.
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Butcher on May 11, 2014, 05:10:31 PM
If I may chime in, I built my PC from scratch 3 years ago without having built one in over 10 years. You can put together a pretty nice package yourself if you don't Ibuypower was my fathers choice.
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Tinkles on May 11, 2014, 05:51:02 PM
If I may chime in, I built my PC from scratch 3 years ago without having built one in over 10 years. You can put together a pretty nice package yourself if you don't Ibuypower was my fathers choice.


I lack the knowledge to put together a rig.  From basic component knowledge to case size. I've wanted to ask you guys to sort of 'build one' but it seemed.. inappropriate to ask.   I've went to pcpartpicker and various other sites to 'build' my own computer. But I don't know if the parts I pick are the best deal for what I picked, or if I could get better or similar components for less.   Again, I lack the knowledge to build my own computer, so I am very nervous on picking the parts.

Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Butcher on May 11, 2014, 06:13:10 PM
I lack the knowledge to put together a rig.  From basic component knowledge to case size. I've wanted to ask you guys to sort of 'build one' but it seemed.. inappropriate to ask.   I've went to pcpartpicker and various other sites to 'build' my own computer. But I don't know if the parts I pick are the best deal for what I picked, or if I could get better or similar components for less.   Again, I lack the knowledge to build my own computer, so I am very nervous on picking the parts.



If you broadcast where you live, maybe someone can help put it together. Also Tinkles do you have Skype? What is your price range? I just put together a few badass PC's for only $900, everything top except a second rate video card (pretty much what I did).
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Tinkles on May 11, 2014, 06:23:35 PM
If you broadcast where you live, maybe someone can help put it together. Also Tinkles do you have Skype? What is your price range? I just put together a few badass PC's for only $900, everything top except a second rate video card (pretty much what I did).


Price range is $700-$1000. 

I live in Hudson, Michigan. 15miles southeast of MIS Superspeedway. Right off US 127 (10 miles from Ohio border).  :D
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Butcher on May 11, 2014, 06:58:49 PM
Price range is $700-$1000. 

I live in Hudson, Michigan. 15miles southeast of MIS Superspeedway. Right off US 127 (10 miles from Ohio border).  :D

Here's what I put together for only $900
Azza Fusion 3000 Full Tower Case
Intel I7-4820k Quad-Core 3.70 GHZ 10MB Intel Smart Cache LGA2011
Thermaltake Frio OCK Cpu Cooler
Asus P9X79 LE ATX 3 way SLI
8GB DD3/1600 Squad Channel Memory
Nvidia GTX 750 2GB GDDR5 PCIe 3.0
Corsair CX500 500 Watt 80 plus Bronze power supply
1TB Sata III 6GB 7200RPM - Whatever the hell western digital has, if you want more speed you can either get another HD later and Raid 0 them, or get a SSD drive, honestly I went with two harddrives because back then the price of SSD were nuts, not sure about now. Also because its an Intel, get a SSD for the RAM cache, I have a 64GB Cache and does wonders.

Total price is around $940, the video card isn't high end, but it goes up to $250+ for the next model, another thing is you can always wait until the video card is on sale, buy another to throw inside and SLI them.

Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Tinkles on May 11, 2014, 07:20:29 PM
Here's what I put together for only $900
Azza Fusion 3000 Full Tower Case
Intel I7-4820k Quad-Core 3.70 GHZ 10MB Intel Smart Cache LGA2011
Thermaltake Frio OCK Cpu Cooler
Asus P9X79 LE ATX 3 way SLI
8GB DD3/1600 Squad Channel Memory
Nvidia GTX 750 2GB GDDR5 PCIe 3.0
Corsair CX500 500 Watt 80 plus Bronze power supply
1TB Sata III 6GB 7200RPM - Whatever the hell western digital has, if you want more speed you can either get another HD later and Raid 0 them, or get a SSD drive, honestly I went with two harddrives because back then the price of SSD were nuts, not sure about now. Also because its an Intel, get a SSD for the RAM cache, I have a 64GB Cache and does wonders.

Total price is around $940, the video card isn't high end, but it goes up to $250+ for the next model, another thing is you can always wait until the video card is on sale, buy another to throw inside and SLI them.



What games besides Aces High do you play on that computer?

As a side note: on PC part picker your CPU is a 'combo', with another motherboard. Both together are $720   :O


Went to PC part picker looking up what you posted, here is what I got.

CPU - Baggage (mentioned above).
CPU Cooler - not found
Motherboard - not found
Memory - not found
Storage - not found
Video Card - not found (was very surprised)
Power supply - $44.00 USD
Case - $170, w/ $30 Mail In Rebate, looks nice  :aok

So, yeah.. didn't find much of what you have.
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Butcher on May 11, 2014, 07:27:05 PM
What games besides Aces High do you play on that computer?

As a side note: on PC part picker your CPU is a 'combo', with another motherboard. Both together are $720   :O

I play only a few games, Diablo III and Aces, most are Real time strategy or board games, I did have Skyrim installed. Max Graphics in Aces and Skyrim are 60fps with a 30 inch POS dell monitor from 7 years ago.
I was using Tigerdirect and newegg to price out the stuff, just to put together something so you had an idea of what to put together later on. Not sure how its $720, that chip is only $310, motherboard is $260, you don't necessarily need that motherboard, if you can build off that chip you can get a decent PC.

Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Tinkles on May 11, 2014, 07:33:52 PM
What games besides Aces High do you play on that computer?

As a side note: on PC part picker your CPU is a 'combo', with another motherboard. Both together are $720   :O


Went to PC part picker looking up what you posted, here is what I got.

CPU - Baggage (mentioned above).
CPU Cooler - not found
Motherboard - not found
Memory - not found
Storage - not found
Video Card - not found (was very surprised)
Power supply - $44.00 USD
Case - $170, w/ $30 Mail In Rebate, looks nice  :aok

So, yeah.. didn't find much of what you have.

And like I said before, I have no idea what I am doing.. and with so much (at least for me) money at 'stake' I'm walking on egg shells.
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Butcher on May 11, 2014, 07:43:16 PM
And like I said before, I have no idea what I am doing.. and with so much (at least for me) money at 'stake' I'm walking on egg shells.

Tell me about it, few years ago I broke down - I had a laptop that barely ran 10FPS in Aces high with no graphics on. I ended up getting screwed having someone build it for me, so I ended up building it myself.
I was fortunate it lasted two years, except my GPU blew up and I ended up just upgrading again.

Don't rush buying it, if someone can help you locally or someone you absolutely trust - then go with them. These websites that sell PC's have been decent, my father bought one a few years ago and he still likes it, paid $900 for a facebook gaming PC LOL
I'm sorry I can't help you in picking which site is best, I haven't used them in 7 years, not sure which is better then the next or which one sucks.

Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Bizman on May 12, 2014, 10:59:34 AM
Tink, feel free to build a computer with pcpartpicker and publish your compilation here for evaluation. Others have done it before and hopefully they've got valuable advice about what to change and why. Like you noticed, Butcher's case sure looks nice but you can find a good one for one quarter of the price and use the money saved for a better video card for example. Also, for AH an i7 would be overkill. Also, as Butcher said, a trustworthy local helper is good to go with. PC-partpicker is a very good tool for planning but I'd rather let a local guy take care of ordering the parts and building the computer. An online builder shop will also do, if they have all the AH community approved parts listed.
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Tinkles on May 13, 2014, 01:21:21 PM
Tink, feel free to build a computer with pcpartpicker and publish your compilation here for evaluation. Others have done it before and hopefully they've got valuable advice about what to change and why. Like you noticed, Butcher's case sure looks nice but you can find a good one for one quarter of the price and use the money saved for a better video card for example. Also, for AH an i7 would be overkill. Also, as Butcher said, a trustworthy local helper is good to go with. PC-partpicker is a very good tool for planning but I'd rather let a local guy take care of ordering the parts and building the computer. An online builder shop will also do, if they have all the AH community approved parts listed.

Found this website yesterday. Has pre-built computers that you can change the parts depending on what tier of computer you chose.

http://buildmygamingpc.com/shop/amd-captain-class/tarf/
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Bizman on May 13, 2014, 01:41:40 PM
I'd rather choose Intel for AH, although AMD may have solved the issues it had concerning AH and some other games. Call it minimizing the risk or something like that...

I played a little with the Intel builder and noticed the price would be somewhat higher than with the AMD.

What I'd like to criticize is that they don't actually tell anything about the brands of the components. I suppose that means they try to find a cheap alternative fitting each category. So, although the idea looks nice you might step into crap knee deep. If I were you, I'd rather not buy anything from that site. Find one who tells the exact models and types of each component.

Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 13, 2014, 01:50:09 PM
Here's what I put together for only $900
Azza Fusion 3000 Full Tower Case
Intel I7-4820k Quad-Core 3.70 GHZ 10MB Intel Smart Cache LGA2011
Thermaltake Frio OCK Cpu Cooler
Asus P9X79 LE ATX 3 way SLI
8GB DD3/1600 Squad Channel Memory
Nvidia GTX 750 2GB GDDR5 PCIe 3.0
Corsair CX500 500 Watt 80 plus Bronze power supply
1TB Sata III 6GB 7200RPM - Whatever the hell western digital has, if you want more speed you can either get another HD later and Raid 0 them, or get a SSD drive, honestly I went with two harddrives because back then the price of SSD were nuts, not sure about now. Also because its an Intel, get a SSD for the RAM cache, I have a 64GB Cache and does wonders.

Total price is around $940, the video card isn't high end, but it goes up to $250+ for the next model, another thing is you can always wait until the video card is on sale, buy another to throw inside and SLI them.



There's only one problem: AH does not support SLI (or SLI doesn't have an optimized profile for AH). Your setup looked pretty good except the i7 is an unnecessary cost especially if the graphics card will be a measly 750. Much better bang for buck would be to have an i3 or i5 k-series together with a 760 or 770 for the same money.
Title: Re: Decent computer?
Post by: Butcher on May 14, 2014, 12:53:53 PM
There's only one problem: AH does not support SLI (or SLI doesn't have an optimized profile for AH). Your setup looked pretty good except the i7 is an unnecessary cost especially if the graphics card will be a measly 750. Much better bang for buck would be to have an i3 or i5 k-series together with a 760 or 770 for the same money.

Yeah thats one of the reasons I never honestly got a second video card, when my GPU blew up I went and bought a Nvidia GeForce GTX 780, I actually find it way more powerful then I actually need. I figured if Aces ever upgrades to allow SLI or the graphics improve, I can always throw a second card in.
It really depends on what a person does gaming wise, back in the old days I had two voodoo 2 cards (8MB) video cards for Quake tournaments, I haven't had two cards since then because I really don't game all that much.

Diablo 3 runs fine on all graphics, Aces and Skyrim, most of the other games I play are either board or 3D.