Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Xavier on May 14, 2014, 04:26:22 PM
-
I'm making this thread because I'm curious about which one of this three german bombers would be the most liked for a new addition. It's not a direct wish! :old:
I know that a new axis bomber probably isn't high in the priority list, this is why I'm not asking for them to be modelled before x or y aircraft is released/redone :aok. Now, let's see the contenders!
Junkers Ju-188 A-2
Developed as a Ju-88 substitute, it didn't provide the Luftwaffe with a brilliantly superior airplane. But still, it had better speed, armament and bombload than its predecessor. The A-2 version was powered by a MW 50 boosted Jumo 213 and is probably the most representative aircraft of the series.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-496-3500-15%2C_Flugzeug_Junkers_Ju_188.jpg)
(http://www.airpages.ru/draw/ju188.gif)
Performance
Maximum speed: 323 mph at 19685 feet
Climb rate: 1176 fpm
Ceiling: 31000 feet
Range: 1500 miles with 3000kg bombload, 2400 miles with 1500kg bombload
Armament
Defensive:
cockpit 1xMG151/20 cannon (250rpg)
dorsal turret 1xMG151/20 cannon (250rpg)
dorsal position: 1xMG131 machine gun (500rpg)
rear of ventral gondola 1xMG131 machine gun (500rpg)
Offensive: 3000kg of bombs, both internally and externally
Dornier Do-217 M1
Initially just a further development of the Do-17, it ended up having notably superior performance and versatility. New engines, armament and a streamlined cockpit gave the Dornier a breath of fresh air. With a bombload close to that of american bombers, its versatility and carrying capacity were put to good use by their crews. The Do-217 M1 is one of the last pure bombers of the whole series, which received a new powerplant and cockpit.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101III-Pachnike-041-24A%2C_Flugzeug_Dornier_Do_17%2C_PK-Filmberichter.jpg)
(http://www.airpages.ru/draw/do217m.gif)
Performance
Maximum speed: 347 mph at 18700 feet
Climb rate: 980 fpm
Ceiling: 24180 feet (max bombload)
Range: 1332 miles
Armament
Defensive:
cockpit nose/sides 4xMG81 machine guns
dorsal position 1xMG131 machine gun
rear of ventral gondola 1xMG131 machine gun
Offensive: 4000kg of bombs, maximum of 3000kg internally
Heinkel He-177 A5
Built for a long-range bomber request by the Luftwaffe, the aircraft was plagued by engine reliability issues. It was the closest thing to a long-range heavy bomber the Luftwaffe had, and the late versions with the new DB-610 were quite capable of not bursting into flames before reching their target. The He-177 A5 was the most produced version, introducing a lengthened fuselage and better bombload.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f4/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101I-674-7767-09,_Flugzeug_Heinkel_He_177.jpg)
(http://www.airpages.ru/draw/he177_1.gif)
Performance
Maximum speed: 351 mph at 19685 feet
Climb rate: 623 fpm
Ceiling: 26246 feet
Range: 3480 miles
Armament
Defensive:
cockpit nose 1xMG81 machine gun
gondola 1xMG151/20 forward, 1xMG131 rear
forward dorsal turret 2xMG131
rear dorsal turret 1xMG131
tail position 1xMG151/20
Offensive: 7200 kg of bombs or other stores, maximum of 6000 kg internally
If you could choose one of the three to be the next axis bomber in the game, which one would it be? And why?
-
+1
Need more German bombers.
-
these are really ugly bombers.
-
these are really ugly bombers.
Here's a pretty one to rid your eyes and mind of German ugly:
(http://www.azcaf.org/images/aircraft/B-17G_FlyFort/B-17G_FlyFort.jpg)
-
Here's a pretty one to rid your eyes and mind of German ugly:
(http://www.azcaf.org/images/aircraft/B-17G_FlyFort/B-17G_FlyFort.jpg)
Its functional but not pretty.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0vtcbC0fB7Y/UGTjdkisvmI/AAAAAAAAF3s/i2ltq0ezwLo/s1600/De%2BHavilland%2BMosquito.jpg)
True Beauty.
-
Its functional but not pretty.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0vtcbC0fB7Y/UGTjdkisvmI/AAAAAAAAF3s/i2ltq0ezwLo/s1600/De%2BHavilland%2BMosquito.jpg)
True Beauty.
Ew it looks like my ex :uhoh
-
+1 to new German bombers :aok
-
The German plane set is missing a heavy bomber. The 177 would fill that gap.
-
Both the JU-188 and He-177 are beautiful planes to me. :aok
-
Ju-188 would get my vote. Right behind the Wellington, Pe-2, and Beaufighter. :aok
-
Ju-188 would get my vote. Right behind the Wellington, Pe-2, and Beaufighter. :aok
Lets just have the Ju-188 or He-177, Wellington, Pe-2, and Beaufighter. that sums up a nice bomber wishlist :)
-
Lets just have the Ju-188 or He-177, Wellington, Pe-2, and Beaufighter. that sums up a nice bomber wishlist :)
Completely agree on that list. The Wellington would give us a nice british medium bomber, ideal for scenarios and MWA. The Pe-2 is a superb ground attack aircraft that could fill nicely the soviet ground attack series.
About the german bombers, I like all of them but I really don't know which one would be most enjoyed in the game. The Ju-188 is probably the most balanced of the three, being just a tad bit slower than a Tu-2, climbing worse but having a way better defensive armament.
The Do-217 is quite fast and carries more bombload than a B-17, but has a mediocre climb when fully loaded and is lacking on the defensive armament. But it's my favourite one, and I find it quite pretty in its special way :P.
The He-177 seems like a beast on paper, but then again the climb rate is painfully low. I could see it used at low level runs just above ack range, or CV hunting. Strat runs if you have the time to let it climb to 20K, it definitely has the range and bombload for the job. The defensive armament is really good, but still no match for the tail stinger on a B-29.
-
+1 :aok
-
Possibly the climb rate of the He 177 wouldn't look quite as bad compared to the other two if it was carrying a similar load of bombs and fuel. From a scenario POV the He 177 would be the least useful of the three.
The Ju 188 might be slightly less work for HTC to do, assuming it was made part of a Ju 88 upgrade. I'd guess the rear fuselage and much of the wing including the flaps and rear half of the nacelles and gear are essentially the same. However the internal cockpit art is where a lot of the work is and that is totally different.
-
Ju-188 would get my vote. Right behind the Wellington, Pe-2, and Beaufighter. :aok
I also agree with this.
+1 For more German bombers. :aok
-
Its functional but not pretty.
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0vtcbC0fB7Y/UGTjdkisvmI/AAAAAAAAF3s/i2ltq0ezwLo/s1600/De%2BHavilland%2BMosquito.jpg)
True Beauty.
Its an Angel with wings. I wish I could ask one on a date.
The DO is probably the best bet tho it would be helpless against attacking fighters unless it could somehow out run them.
-
+1 to get more maps approved then more hardware.. :bolt:
-
Here's a pretty one to rid your eyes and mind of German ugly:
(http://www.azcaf.org/images/aircraft/B-17G_FlyFort/B-17G_FlyFort.jpg)
:aok thankyou very much
-
The posted Ju 188 range is a 'tad' wrong, with 3t of bombs (and 1680l of fuel) range was below 1000km. The first time I hear of had MW-50 use in Ju 188, that was a late 44 introduction on the Fw 190D-9 but not Ju 188. Some may have had GM-1 though. Ju 188A should be a bit faster, ~330-335 mph
-
+3 for all of these birds. We need some competitive Axis Buffs in the MA.
-
The thread title is quite misleading. It ought to read "New German bomber", not "New axis bomber".
The three listed German bombers are undoubtedly the leading candidates for a new Axis bomber from Germany. Lets also put the leading options from Italy and Japan into the mix to make the thread about a new Axis bomber.
SM.79-II:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/49/SM79_193.jpg)
Crew: 6 (pilot, co-pilot, flight engineer/gunner, radio operator, bombardier, rear gunner)
Length: 16.2 m (53 ft 2 in)
Wingspan: 20.2 m (66 ft 3 in)
Height: 4.1 m (13 ft 6 in)
Wing area: 61.7 m² (664 ft²)
Empty weight: 7,700 kg (16,975 lb)
Loaded weight: 10,050 kg (25,132 lb)
Powerplant: 3 × Alfa Romeo 128-RC18 radial engines, 642 kW (860 hp) each
Maximum speed: 460 km/h (286 mph) at 3,790 m (12,450 ft)
Range: 2,600 km (1,615 mi)
Service ceiling: 7,500 m (24,600 ft)
Rate of climb: 5.3 m/s (1,050 ft/min)
Wing loading: 165 kg/m² (33.8 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 0.173 kW/kg (0.106 hp/lb)
Guns:
2 × 12.7 mm (0.5 in) Breda-SAFAT machine gun
2 × 7.7 mm (0.303 in) machine guns in lateral "waist-gun" ports (optional)
Bombs:
1,200 kg (2,645 lb) internal bomb load or two external 450 millimetres (17.72 in) torpedoes
SM.82
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b8/Savoia_Marchetti_SM_82_Vigna_di_Valle.jpg/800px-Savoia_Marchetti_SM_82_Vigna_di_Valle.jpg)
Crew: 4
Capacity: 40 troops
Length: 22.9 m (75 ft 1½ in)
Wingspan: 29.68 m (97 ft 4½ in)
Height: 6.0 m (19 ft 8.25 in)
Wing area: 118.6 m² (1,276.64 ft²)
Empty weight: 10,550 kg (bomber 11,200 kg) (23,259 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 18,020 kg (bomber 18,410 kg) (39,727 lb)
Powerplant: 3 × Alfa Romeo 128 RC.21 9-cylinder radial engines, 708 kW (950 hp) each
Maximum speed: 347 km/h (187 kn, 212 mph)
Cruise speed: 250 km/h (135 kn, 125 mph) at 3,000 m (9,840 ft)
Stall speed: 110 km/h (59 kn, 68 mph)
Range: 2,100 km (1,134 nmi, 1,864 mi)
Service ceiling: 6,000 m (19,685 ft)
Guns:
1 × 12.7 mm (.5 in) Scotti machine gun in dorsal turret
3 × 7.7 mm (.303 in) Breda-SAFAT machine guns in ventral and lateral positions
Bombs:
4,000 kg (8,818 lb) bombload
Cant Z.1007
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/CANT_Z.1007_bis%2C_Sicily%2C_1941.jpg/800px-CANT_Z.1007_bis%2C_Sicily%2C_1941.jpg)
Crew: 5
Length: 18.35 m (60 ft 2.5 in)
Wingspan: 24.80 m (81 ft 4.5 in)
Height: 5.22 m (17 ft 1.5 in)
Wing area: 70 m² (750 ft²)
Empty weight: 9,396 kg (20,715 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 13,621 kg (30,029 lb)
Powerplant: 3 × Piaggio P.XI RC.40 radial engines, 745 kW (1,000 hp) each
Maximum speed: 458 km/h (245 kn, 285 mph)
Cruise speed: 338 km/h (183 kn, 210 mph)
Range: 1,795 km (969 nmi, 1,115 mi)
Service ceiling: 7,500 m (25,000 ft)
Guns:
2 × 12.7 mm (0.5 in) Isotta-Fraschini Scotti or Breda-SAFAT machine guns
2 × 7.7 mm (0.303 in) Breda-SAFAT machine guns
Bombs:
1,200 kg (2,645 lb) of bombs internally. 1,000 kg (2,200 lb) externally on underwing hardpoints. Or a combined load of 2,200 kg (4,900 lb) of bombs internally and on external hardpoints.
2 × 450 mm (17.7 in) 800 kg (1,800 lb), torpedoes
Ki-21-II 'Sally'
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/73/Ki-21_97juubaku_b.jpg/800px-Ki-21_97juubaku_b.jpg)
Crew: 5-7
Length: 16.0 m (52 ft 6 in)
Wingspan: 22.50 m (73 ft 10 in)
Height: 4.85 m (15 ft 11 in)
Wing area: 69.90 m² (752.12 ft²)
Empty weight: 6,070 kg (13,354 lb)
Loaded weight: 10,600 kg (23,320 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Mitsubishi Army Type 100 (Ha-101)(Mitsubishi Kasei) 14 cylinder radial engine, 1,119 kW (1,500 hp) each
Propellers: three-blade metal variable-pitch propellers propeller
Maximum speed: 485 km/h (301 mph) at 4,700 m (15,400 ft)
Cruise speed: 380 km/h (236 mph)
Range: 2,700 km (1,680 mi)
Service ceiling: 10,000 m (32,800 ft)
Rate of climb: 13 min 13 sec to 6,000 m (19,680 ft)
Guns:
4× 7.7 mm (.303 in) flexible Type 89 machine guns in nose, ventral, beam and tail positions
1× 12.7 mm (.50 in) Type 1 Machine Gun in dorsal turret
Bombs:
1,000 kg (2,200 lb) of bombs
P1Y1 Ginga 'Frances'
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/33/P1Y_Kyokkou_Aurora_or_Ginga_Milky_Way_Frances_P1Y-1.jpg/799px-P1Y_Kyokkou_Aurora_or_Ginga_Milky_Way_Frances_P1Y-1.jpg)
Crew: 3
Length: 15.00 m (49 ft 2⅜ in)
Wingspan: 20.00 m (65 ft 7¼ in)
Height: 4.30 m (14 ft 1¼ in)
Wing area: 55 m² (592 ft²)
Empty weight: 7,265 kg (16,020 lb)
Loaded weight: 10,500 kg (23,149 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 13,500 kg (29,762 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × Nakajima NK9C Homare 12 18-cylinder radial engines, 1,361 kW (1,825 hp) (take-off) each
Maximum speed: 547 km/h (295 knot, 340 mph) at 5,900 m (19,400 ft)
Cruise speed: 370 km/h (200 knots, 230 mph) at 4,000 m (13,125 ft)
Range: 5,370 km (2,900 nmi, 3,337 mi)
Service ceiling: 9,400 m (30,840 ft)
Wing loading: 191 kg/m² (39.1 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 0.20 kW/kg (0.16 hp/lb)
Guns:
1× flexible, nose-mounted 20 mm Type 99 cannon
1× flexible rear-firing 13 mm Type 2 machine gun
Bombs:
up to 1,000 kg (2,205 lb) of bombs or 1× 800 kg (1,800 lb) torpedo
H8K2 'Emily'
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/Kawanishi_H8K2_%28Emily%29_flying_boat.jpg/800px-Kawanishi_H8K2_%28Emily%29_flying_boat.jpg)
Crew: 10
Length: 28.15 m (92 ft 4 in)
Wingspan: 38.00 m (124 ft 8 in)
Height: 9.15 m (30 ft)
Wing area: 160 m² (1,721 ft²)
Empty weight: 18,380 kg (40,436 lb)
Loaded weight: 24,500 kg (53,900 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 32,500 kg (71,500 lb)
Powerplant: 4 × Mitsubishi Kasei 22 radial engines, 1,380 kW (1,850 hp) each
Maximum speed: 465 km/h (290 mph)
Range: 7,150 km (4,440 mi)
Service ceiling: 8,760 m (28,740 ft)
Rate of climb: 8.1 m/s (1,600 ft/min)
Wing loading: 153 kg/m² (31 lb/ft²)
Power/mass: 0.22 kW/kg (0.14 hp/lb
Guns:
5× 20 mm Type 99 cannon (one each in bow, dorsal, and tail turrets, plus one each in two waist blisters)
5× 7.7 mm (.303 in) Type 92 machine guns in fuselage hatches
Bombs:
2× 800 kg (1,764 lb) torpedoes or 2,000 kg (4,410 lb) of bombs or depth charges
There we go, nine prospective Axis bombers. Do217E, H8K2, He177A-5, Ju188A-1, Ki-21-II, P1Y1, SM.79-II, SM.82 and Z.1007.
-
That the Germans never developed any long-range heavy bombers is a persisting myth. They never built many of them though due to their other war needs, but a few were built for specialized purposes. Here's one that's interesting:
Ju 290A-5 Long-range reconnaissance bomber and transport (A-6)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/Ju290-A5-7.jpg)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/ju290.jpg)
Less than 100 were built from 1942 to 1944, but this would be an MA worthy addition. Model can also be re-used for the heavy transport version. This aircraft replaced the Fw 200 as the Luftwaffe's maritime reconnaissance bomber. It also served as a long-range transport and flew over the Soviet Union at night to Japan and back. After the war the Americans took one across the Atlantic.
It would be the most heavily armed bomber in the game with six MG 151/20 and two MG131.
Crew: 9
Length: 93 ft 11 in (28.64 m)
Wingspan: 137 ft 9 in (42.00 m)
Height: 22 ft 5 in (6.83 m)
Wing area: 2,191 ft² (203 m²)
Empty weight: 72,611 lb (33,005 kg)
Max takeoff weight: 99,141 lb (44,970 kg)
Powerplant: 4× BMW 801G/H 14-cylinder radial engines, 1,700 hp (1,268 kW) each
Maximum speed: 273 mph (440 km/h)
Range: 3,843 mi (6,150 km)
Guns
2 × 20 mm MG 151/20 cannons in dorsal turrets
1 × 20 mm MG 151/20 in tail
2 × MG 151/20s at waist
1 × MG 151/20 in gondola
2 × 13 mm (.51 in) MG 131 machine guns in gondola
3,000 kg (6,600 lb) of disposable stores or up to three Fritz X or Henschel Hs 293 radio-guided munitions
FuG 200 Hohentwiel radar
A-6 transport could carry 50 passengers or cargo.
(http://www.aviastar.org/pictures/germany/ju-290-s.gif)
Here's one being shot down by 14 squadron RAF:
(http://www.geocities.ws/limeydvr/images/ju290.jpg)
-
There we go, nine prospective Axis bombers. Do217E, H8K2, He177A-5, Ju188A-1, Ki-21-II, P1Y1, SM.79-II, SM.82 and Z.1007.
I'd also add the Ki-48 "Lily" to the list.
ack-ack
-
Oh HELL YES to more Japanese bombers! :x
-
Here's one being shot down by 14 squadron RAF:
(http://www.geocities.ws/limeydvr/images/ju290.jpg)
Where was that? 14 Squadron flew Wellesleys, Blenheims, Marauders and Wellingtons in WWII. The only one of those that seems like it might have a decent shot at beating a Ju290 would be the B-26 Marauder.
-
The caption said it was in the Med somewhere.
-
The caption said it was in the Med somewhere.
Would have been B-26s at that time.
-
+1 :aok