Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: USRanger on May 14, 2014, 08:45:36 PM
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I've been making terrains since 2004, a butt ton of which are on the server now that get used for the AvA & other places, yet I have never made an MA terrain. I've said I was gonna many times over the years, but never got into doing it. To celebrate my 10th year in AH, I want to finally make an MA terrain for the community. Here is a 5 minute drawing of the basic concept I want to use. I would want to make the outer ring at sea level, then the next inner ring 1.5-2k higher, then the next ring the same way, etc. The center island I would want at 10-12k for a tank town resembling the one in Greebo's. I'd like to here some honest opinions of the design before I start. It would be a 256x256 mile "small" MA terrain. Keep in mind this was a quick drawing, so I don't actually know how many rings there would actually be. :)
(http://i58.tinypic.com/2dhaf6o.jpg)
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Reminds me a lot of the map we have with the Tank Town in the middle with the 15k mountain range and the air bases behind the vbases.
I don't know the name of the map, I am sure Snailman knows.
I know the P21 is at the bottom of the map I am trying to describe and there is always a furball North of P21.
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I know the water wouldn't be so wide, but big enough for CVs to maneuver. Picture it as a simple bulls-eye design with cuts through the land rings for CVs to go all over. I can't think of the one you are thinking of either Ghost.
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I can tell you what I don't like.
* I dont like maps where mountain ranges are so high that you have to climb for ever. Then once you clear the ridge you dont dare going down because you dont want to have to climb back to clear the range.
* I dont like map that dont look realistic, it kill my immersion factor before I even get into the cockpit.
The concept you propose is an un-original variation of a couple of maps we already have. Show brillance by coming up with something that doesnt look like a sandbox and yet provides all the fairness and side balancing of one. :salute
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Looks cool,,
My idea if I could build one of my own to follow based on your rendering
I'd like at least a few outer bases at 6k or so with clear paths to launch heavy bombers and the mountains around TT need to be tight in around the fight, tall and have narrow roads that could be driven on by tanks and such,, maybe 7k from one side to the other inside the TT area,, the tighter the area, the harder to get large bombers calibrated for targets,, not impossible, just harder, and new berms and bumps more suited to the hieght of the tanks we have and gentle slopes for gun depression .
I'm thinking out loud but also , all GV spawns around the map need to be equal distance from the town and no more than 4k apart, 2 k would be better
As you get closer to HQ the towns could be closer to the fields for field gun protection as well.
Strats all need to go along the outer islands near uncapturable bases, to get 20% , you'd have to capture at least two hard to capture bases or bases on the oposite side of the enemy,, the hard bass need to have nearby , high alt bases that are uncapturable to help defend
Well Im just rattling on and I can't even build one ! My complements to you and those who can and do,, and. Just my two cents!
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Looks pretty much along the lines of everything we have. need something new. DIVERS :bolt:
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Wanna drive people nuts...
Place a vbase at each repectable end of the map with a spawn directly to each enemy HQ...
If that doesn't cause a fight, nothing will...
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I'd actually prefer the outer ring "home islands" to be a good deal larger, with the uncapturable bases between the HQ / strats and the final coastline, and other bases beyond. Maybe a port tucked away in a cove right at the back on either side.
I'm all for mountain ranges offering protection to a gv town, and for making some port captures just not worth the effort, sux for the big blue fans not to have any cvs.
It really comes down to base placement I think, in terms of how close vbases are, where the ports are located, etc.
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Please make it so carriers can go anywhere there is water.
Let each country have a spawn into tank town from another base that is not in tank town. Possibly from an indestructible base.
(edit) Oh and let there be pt spawns to both sides of an island where a strat is to defend against carriers.
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Please excuse me if this is not what you had in mind. I know that you made a rough drawing to show the rings and have seen the work that you have done, so I am merely suggesting what I would like a finished concept to resemble.
- Atoll / Barrier Reef shapes and textures
- "Tank Town" (Village) on Main island
- Asymmetrical Map NOT bullseye = TT island is in upper right corner
- Barrier reef / islands deny carrier access to TT island
- Barrier Islands vulnerable to fleet attack, and provide spawns to inner islands / "rings"
- Country start either occupying the West, the Interior(with Northern fleet access) or the South as well as equal TT island bases
- Consider Hi Alt bases will be points where bombers and defenders would depart, make them uncapturable
(http://ts3.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.608016955214529447&pid=1.7) (http://ts1.mm.bing.net/th?id=HN.607987526096128985&pid=1.7)
Premise of the concept is that:
1) fleet battles would be prevalent on the outer ring / wedge,
2) airfield battles would be prevalent in the attacks aimed at interior bases
3) center portion of the Main island would promote "quality" tank battles, with good defensive positions and offensive positons at a centralized village (town) location
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I'd like to see a medium to large map made up of all small islands 95% of which were ports with no air feilds and little to no GV spawns but to maybe HQ
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I'd make the map a bit less geometric-looking, so it looks like it could be a real place. Have all the islands differently shaped and add a few wiggles in the passages between them, but without losing the essential layout or balance. Put some smaller gaps through some of the islands, too small to pass a CV through, just to break up the regularity a bit.
I know its popular but I wish I'd never put that TT into my map. It makes the rest of the spawn layout on the map redundant and reduces the number of players flying aircraft.
BTW for those suggesting hi-alt airbases, I think there's a rule saying no airbases over 4K on an MA map. Otherwise its a struggle to get heavily loaded bombers off the ground in the length of the runway.
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4k would be fine but the end of the runways need to be clear of obstructions ,, runway builders aren't supposed to build airstrips in bowls! Or with mountains at the end of the concrete !
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Reminds me a lot of the map we have with the Tank Town in the middle with the 15k mountain range and the air bases behind the vbases.
I don't know the name of the map, I am sure Snailman knows.
I know the P21 is at the bottom of the map I am trying to describe and there is always a furball North of P21.
i think your thinking of CRATERMA it's newest map we have
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I'd like to see a medium to large map made up of all small islands 95% of which were ports with no air feilds and little to no GV spawns but to maybe HQ
Is this map supposed to produce a decent fight? :headscratch:
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i think your thinking of CRATERMA it's newest map we have
Noo, its not Crater MA.
I will look it up later today. :lol
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Is this map supposed to produce a decent fight? :headscratch:
:rofl
It would produce whines as the GV boys wouldn't have anything to do. . .
Terrible idea, and we don't need anymore large maps.
:lol
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:rofl
It would produce whines as the GV boys wouldn't have anything to do. . .
Terrible idea, and we don't need anymore large maps.
:lol
:D
Well, as for my opinion on the map, the ring system is perfectly fine with me, but as for the increase in altitude, I don't think it should be included, as my opinion on it is much like Frenchy's.
I can tell you what I don't like.
* I dont like maps where mountain ranges are so high that you have to climb for ever. Then once you clear the ridge you dont dare going down because you dont want to have to climb back to clear the range.
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Three uncapturable bases.
10K apart.
No 163.
No carriers.
No AAA.
Final Destination.
(http://s28.postimg.org/qoe8wdgst/2dhaf6o.jpg)
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Re-do the Balkans map!
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I like the Balkans idea GScholz. I also like the 10-12k tank-town idea to limit the amount of ground attack aircraft.
Great idea Ranger and thanks for bringing it up. :aok
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I like the Balkans idea GScholz. I also like the 10-12k tank-town idea to limit the amount of ground attack aircraft.
Great idea Ranger and thanks for bringing it up. :aok
I agree except they need to allow the Hur IID and Ju-87g2 and IL-2 at vbases
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With careful base-placement, the real world offers a lot of interesting terrain that can be balanced for three sides.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/baltic.PNG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/east%20of%20indonesia.PNG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/greatlakes.PNG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/gulfstlawrence.PNG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/med.PNG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/persiangulf.PNG)
How cool would a Persian Gulf map be?! :aok
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With careful base-placement, the real world offers a lot of interesting terrain that can be balanced for three sides.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/baltic.PNG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/east%20of%20indonesia.PNG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/greatlakes.PNG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/gulfstlawrence.PNG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/med.PNG)
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/persiangulf.PNG)
How cool would a Persian Gulf map be?! :aok
Sweet.
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As long as it has water I'm happy. :aok
Cool concept Ranger
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Pretty ambitious USRanger, but I know you can pull it off. I have been using your sound pack for years.
You do great work. :aok
For the center island where tank town will be located, I would suggest 20k mountains. You will never
stop the players that bomb tanks in The GV'ers portion of the map, but they will have to invest some time to get there if the mountain ranges are elevated like Grebo's CraterMA (best GV map in IMHO)
I like Crabby's idea of a v base close to an enemy strats (GV's could drive in) or at the very least a v base that would be relatively easy to capture. That would make for some awesome fights as he has suggested. All maps need some focal points that make them interesting. The nearby air fields (close to strats)would be uncapturable as we see in many of the existing maps.
I would like to also see dogfight allies where you have mountains on both sides as well....... Ie. Boxed canyons. You would still see BnZ planes but they would have to extend up and over the canyon walls for a safe exit. Turn n burners will have a blast.
Bomber pilots would tend to spawn from the higher elevated fields to save time getting altitude. Strategy in there placement can go a long way.
Pt boats need rivers that give them close access to air fields and any future submarine bases.
Lots and lots of pt boat spawns. :D
If Cv's could have access to some very large rivers without that message "waypoint segment touches land" , even more strategic battles can be created.
This could be a win win map for all players regardless of preference ......GV, fighter, bomber, pt boat, ect.
:salute
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Great input everyone! I'm listening to them all. Although there will never be a "perfect" terrain that satisfies everyone, I think as long as I've been here I know the basic do's & don'ts for a MA terrain to make the majority happy. Several great ideas so far. Keep em coming! The more players' input, the better to achieve a happy medium for everyone. I ask for community opinions because I don't want this to be my map, I want it to be OUR map. :salute
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With careful base-placement, the real world offers a lot of interesting terrain that can be balanced for three sides.
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26232318/AH/greatlakes.PNG)
If we get the Great Lakes map, my first flight would be to bomb Detroit. :D
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Detroit already looks like it's been bombed out. :lol
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Is this map supposed to produce a decent fight? :headscratch:
Yep, and plenty of them think 30+ CV groups with very few places to up heavy bombers. And with little to no GV fights (which I do not constitute as a "good fight")
No place to go but up
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Yep, and plenty of them think 30 CV groups
With the numbers we currently have, that many CV's will for the most part of the day not create "many good fights" but dozens of individual base sneak attempts, except for us prime.
and with little to no GV fights (which I do not constitute as a "good fight")
Not ever going to happen for very good reasons :)
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I like GVing, so there will be plenty of spawns. It will be a desert-ish terrain for some variety.
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I like GVing, so there will be plenty of spawns. It will be a desert-ish terrain for some variety.
I'm curious about what kind of foliage you are going to put into the terrain with it being a desert theme. I think it would also be cool if there were still some non-desert areas scattered around the map. Maybe a mountain or two but with the shape of the islands, I don't think that will be happening. Will you be waiting until the new terrain engine comes out before finishing your work?
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I'm curious about what kind of foliage you are going to put into the terrain with it being a desert theme. I think it would also be cool if there were still some non-desert areas scattered around the map. Maybe a mountain or two but with the shape of the islands, I don't think that will be happening. Will you be waiting until the new terrain engine comes out before finishing your work?
For an MA terrain, it would have the default clutter set (foilage). And yes there will be green areas. That's why I said desert-ish instead of desert. I'll wait for the new engine to come out. I've got more AvA terrains to do in the meantime. I'll probably start it and get the basic land & water in, then wait for the new editor to come out before picking it back up. So light a fire under HTC's butt to get the new engine done! :D
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I've had a few ideas in the past for an MA Map. But it's so time consuming to finish one.
I find it easier to make the terrain than to place all the fields, towns and spawn points.
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/grimsfx/map321map.png) (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/grimsfx/media/map321map.png.html)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/grimsfx/map321ma.png) (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/grimsfx/media/map321ma.png.html)
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e28/grimsfx/map889900001.png) (http://s36.photobucket.com/user/grimsfx/media/map889900001.png.html)
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That's cool!! :rock
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Well first a big :salute to anyone making ANY kind of new map and for taking the time to do it. Im sure it must be satisfying too ; To see the community digging a map you made.
A map or two ago there was one that look set in the south Pacific. For me everything was perfect. Plenty of water, plenty of fights. Large but not to large to find fights. But most of all the colors. the colors were hit right on the head. Most of all the aqua blue of the water. I enjoy just flying over it and looking at it. :salute
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Please excuse my ignorance on how maps and terrains work with tis question.
Can you start this now and have it work with the new terrain stuff HTC is doing, or do maps need to be designed and built after that happens?
Suggestions:
Greebos Crater MA TT is great, maybe too great. I usually just gv when its up. It allows instant action or spawning in safe and sneaking around, lots of terrain variation and limited bombing. :aok
I like some gv spawns to strats with the ability to counter them with gvs.
1 sector or less opposing airfields in some spots with some terrain that funnels guys into some canyon/terrain fighting to promote good furballs.
Would love a desert or Fall colored map :aok
I won't complain no matter what it is. New stuff is good.
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(http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.607999204114107015&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0)(http://ts4.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.607995111008765154&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0)
(http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.608006398183277255&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0)(http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?&id=HN.608022615984311058&w=300&h=300&c=0&pid=1.9&rs=0&p=0)
More reef island eye candy :cool:
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How about real maps but not real...
Mythical lands...outta scale but
Pangea...the land that time forgot..might just be it..
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff274/lowerbrook/260px-Pangea1_zpsa141ce82.jpg) (http://s237.photobucket.com/user/lowerbrook/media/260px-Pangea1_zpsa141ce82.jpg.html)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff274/lowerbrook/10-pangea_politik_zpsc83aeb3c.jpg) (http://s237.photobucket.com/user/lowerbrook/media/10-pangea_politik_zpsc83aeb3c.jpg.html)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff274/lowerbrook/4-73896956-60a5-41e6-b0ba-55d4942856e7_zps2643f2a6.gif) (http://s237.photobucket.com/user/lowerbrook/media/4-73896956-60a5-41e6-b0ba-55d4942856e7_zps2643f2a6.gif.html)
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff274/lowerbrook/Pangea_zps10a60204.jpg) (http://s237.photobucket.com/user/lowerbrook/media/Pangea_zps10a60204.jpg.html)
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I know this will not go over well but....I would like to see more maps without a tank town. This would get the Gv guys more involved in the actual fight to take a base or defend them. Have one spawn from each side go deep into the other country's homeland this would force bombers and fighters to fly fighting all the way in to drop hangers and support the fight for the base, if the base does get captured you all know what kind of fight will ensue to get it back or to spread the fight out in the enemy's homeland. The "Alamo" type fights on any map are the most intense and fast paced fights I have ever been in.
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get the Gv guys more involved in the actual fight to take a base or defend them
Wezel,
I agree with your intent, but as a fellow Knight I think you know as well as I do, there is very little that will convince them to organize, especially for a base take. Tank Towns at least gather folks with a similar intent in a general area. I know with Knights, this is still like herding cats, but at least the "cats that are there (in TT) typically form into a fighting unit for safety's sake.
Similarly, the discussions about high altitude fish bowls, canyons, and my barrier reef idea are designs in maps that attempt to channel action. The best explanation for such an apparent need for these types of designs is that AH offers so much freedom in movement and not enough reward for country advancement. (There I said it. I love the game, but writing my name with the Carrier Group spawn can be just as entertaining as taking the last base to "win the war").
Therefore, your premise that having no Tank Town, will gather tankers into better action elsewhere, will have to involve much more in the evolution of the base take system. This is entirely in HTC's hands and there is hope that with a new terrain and field designs will come renewed interest in "The Warz" (for heaven's sake at least for Knights). Until we know what these changes are, I will assume that game play will be status quo.
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Great question:
Please excuse my ignorance on how maps and terrains work with tis question.
Can you start this now and have it work with the new terrain stuff HTC is doing, or do maps need to be designed and built after that happens?
anyone have an answer??
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IIRC HTC intend to release a terrain converter when the next version comes out. However I'd say its a bit risky doing much more on an MA terrain with the current terrain editor than the ground elevations and coastlines. The new base/town setup is going to be completely different in the next version as is the terrain mesh size. It is quite possible the strat and supply system could also be altered and there might be new stuff added (new bases, bridges etc.) So any work you do on that would likely need to be revised later.
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IIRC HTC intend to release a terrain converter when the next version comes out. However I'd say its a bit risky doing much more on an MA terrain with the current terrain editor than the ground elevations and coastlines. The new base/town setup is going to be completely different in the next version as is the terrain mesh size. It is quite possible the strat and supply system could also be altered and there might be new stuff added (new bases, bridges etc.) So any work you do on that would likely need to be revised later.
(http://i61.tinypic.com/kboz2e.gif)
I have enough terrains on the server to convert without throwing an MA terrain in the mix.
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I love the concept! I glanced at the drawing, looks like fun! :banana: