Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: skorpx1 on May 18, 2014, 02:12:53 PM
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My friend recently got a gun from a relative that had been sitting in a leather holster for about 20-25 years. Along with that was some ammo and over time the bullets started to tarnish and leave a green residue in the holster/on the bullets themselves. The question I have is how would one go about removing the tarnish, and are those bullets even going to fire after sitting for that long? The bullets are made out of brass and most of them are birdshot.
As far as I know they probably wont fire and they most likely will be a PITA to clean up.
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the bullets should still fire, its just oxidation (I think) that is on them. As long as its not pitted or anything I would shoot them :D But not seeing them I dont want to tell ya to shoot them. I had som 22 lr that was almost 23 years old that I shot last year. hows the gun itself? rusty, pitted?
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The gun is perfectly fine, no issues with it whatsoever other than the fact that the safety doesn't always work. I'll see if I can get a picture of the bullets. From what I know they're not rusting/pitted.
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They should be fine. You would only have to fool with cleaning them up with the residue on them prevents them from being chambered.
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I suggest firing the ammo out of a bolt gun and not an auto loading pistol or even a revolver. Odds are there isn't any issue. I found some very old, as in 1950's vintage .22 shorts in an ammo can that belonged to my grandfather. I put them in to the bolt action .22 rimfire and fired them all off without a hitch.
I advise using a bolt gun for the strength. If there are elevated pressures for whatever reason the bolt action will handle the stress where as an auto-loader may not. Either way.... just fire the ammo. Just make sure someone holds your beer while you do it. ok? :D
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I suggest firing the ammo out of a bolt gun and not an auto loading pistol or even a revolver. Odds are there isn't any issue. I found some very old, as in 1950's vintage .22 shorts in an ammo can that belonged to my grandfather. I put them in to the bolt action .22 rimfire and fired them all off without a hitch.
I advise using a bolt gun for the strength. If there are elevated pressures for whatever reason the bolt action will handle the stress where as an auto-loader may not. Either way.... just fire the ammo. Just make sure someone holds your beer while you do it. ok? :D
Neither of us have a bolt gun but there is a semi-auto .22 rifle that I have. Would that be just as good or bolt rifle only for this?
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If they're badly corroded the case could split. Getting a split case out of the bore is a pain in the butt. And sometimes they might spit debris as the case comes apart, and the slug might get stuck in the barrel if it is a slow fire or misfire. You'll need to check the barrel after any shot that doesn't sound or look right.
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Neither of us have a bolt gun but there is a semi-auto .22 rifle that I have. Would that be just as good or bolt rifle only for this?
IT shouldn't hurt it, regardless. You almost can hold that .22 in your hand and have it go 'boom and not get an injury. If you do that, again be sure someone holds your beer and you say "here, watch this".
Seriously, though, just put the rounds in the rifle, auto loader or not, and just fire them. If you hear the "click" and no "bang", then wait 30 seconds and then unload the cartridge. It wouldn't be a bad idea to fire 1 round at a time, too. If it were me, I'd fire it and if I didn't see an impact from the fired round I'd check the bore. Otherwise, just go shootin'.
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The gun is perfectly fine, no issues with it whatsoever other than the fact that the safety doesn't always work. I'll see if I can get a picture of the bullets. From what I know they're not rusting/pitted.
Safety fails? What is the model?
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Safety fails? What is the model?
I have no clue and neither does my friend. I have some pics of it. I looked at the only markings on the gun (which are in the pics) and couldn't find a model/brand name of any kind.
I took another look at the gun and couldn't even find a single serial number marking.
Gun.
(http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad333/Skorpx1/20140518_190819_zpscfd80ab5.jpg)
Gun.
(http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad333/Skorpx1/20140518_190833_zps121daa62.jpg)
Ammo.
(http://i949.photobucket.com/albums/ad333/Skorpx1/20140518_190934_zpsc9608a4a.jpg)
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The ammo is bird shot. Very low pressure. Shoot it at pop cans from about 5 yards away and enjoy! :aok
btw... forget about any "safety" on that rifle. Just use the 10 basic rules and you'll be fine.
1. Always Keep The Muzzle Pointed In A Safe Direction
2. Firearms Should Be Unloaded When Not Actually In Use
3. Don't Rely On Your Gun's "Safety"
4. Be Sure Of Your Target And What's Beyond It
5. Use Correct Ammunition
6. If Your Gun Fails To Fire When The Trigger Is Pulled, Handle With Care!
7. Always Wear Eye And Ear Protection When Shooting
8. Be Sure The Barrel Is Clear Of Obstructions Before Shooting
9. Don't Alter Or Modify Your Gun, And Have Guns Serviced Regularly
10. Learn The Mechanical And Handling Characteristics Of The Firearm You Are Using
Common sense rules the day.
If it were me, I'd shelve that ammo and go get some typical .22 LR ammo and use that. The bird shot is for rats and black birds "up close", and really isn't wort a hoot for much else. Heck, I'd be tempted to toss it in the trash, really.
EDIT: a quick search shows that firearm, a "Mod. Tex .22 LR", to be worth $30 to $100, probably made in Germany and imported via Miami, FL. The company is long defunct.
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I don't see the action but from the barrel it's a copy of a SSA "cowboy" pistol. They generally don't have a safety other than a notch for the hammer and/or a transfer bar ignition. There should be a half cock position for loading. I'm still concerned about your safety comment. Those pistols were generally "safed" with an empty chamber.
Btw it's the .22 Tex model from FIE as listed on the barrel. The serial number is on the frame somewhere.
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Yep, rat shot. It may be perfectly fine, but you don't know anything about it. Personally I'd throw it away and get fresh ammo. It's not that expensive. Your friend probably should take a gun safety course, too. Neither of you sound like a Gunner's Mate.
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Yep, rat shot. It may be perfectly fine, but you don't know anything about it. Personally I'd throw it away and get fresh ammo. It's not that expensive. Your friend probably should take a gun safety course, too. Neither of you sound like a Gunner's Mate.
Agreed. Or at least get to a reputable gun shop (buy some ammo), and ask a few questions. Be wary of the former Navy SEAL trying to sell you jerkey of some sort. Get out of that gun shop and go somewhere else.
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Yep, rat shot. It may be perfectly fine, but you don't know anything about it. Personally I'd throw it away and get fresh ammo. It's not that expensive. Your friend probably should take a gun safety course, too. Neither of you sound like a Gunner's Mate.
He's never really been one to own a gun, and neither have I, but he got it from a relative that passed away so he couldn't just say "no" and leave it in a house for someone else to find. Iv'e taken my hunter safety course for both gun and bow hunting but for some reason the markings on this gun just confused me. I didn't know if the Mod Tex .22LR was just the ammo required or the actual make of the gun.
I honestly have only shot a real gun 3 times in the course of 5 years. I simply just don't have the experience to know about the ammo and if it's useful or not. My friend said he won't be using the bird shot but the other standard rounds will be going through my .22 rifle. If nothing happens and they don't work, then so be it.
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The ammo is bird shot. Very low pressure.
Two of those rounds are not bird shot. Don't treat them the same as the others.
- oldman
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you'll also find .22lr to be stupidly expensive compared to what it should be. if you can find it that is.
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you'll also find .22lr to be stupidly expensive compared to what it should be. if you can find it that is.
Around here ammo is fairly easy and cheap to come by. Wisconsin (or at least the city I live in) isn't being hit with this ammo shortage that everyone else is dealing with.
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The ammo is bird shot. Very low pressure. Shoot it at pop cans from about 5 yards away and enjoy! :aok
btw... forget about any "safety" on that rifle. Just use the 10 basic rules and you'll be fine.
1. Always Keep The Muzzle Pointed In A Safe Direction
2. Firearms Should Be Unloaded When Not Actually In Use
3. Don't Rely On Your Gun's "Safety"
4. Be Sure Of Your Target And What's Beyond It
5. Use Correct Ammunition
6. If Your Gun Fails To Fire When The Trigger Is Pulled, Handle With Care!
7. Always Wear Eye And Ear Protection When Shooting
8. Be Sure The Barrel Is Clear Of Obstructions Before Shooting
9. Don't Alter Or Modify Your Gun, And Have Guns Serviced Regularly
10. Learn The Mechanical And Handling Characteristics Of The Firearm You Are Using
Common sense rules the day.
If it were me, I'd shelve that ammo and go get some typical .22 LR ammo and use that. The bird shot is for rats and black birds "up close", and really isn't wort a hoot for much else. Heck, I'd be tempted to toss it in the trash, really.
EDIT: a quick search shows that firearm, a "Mod. Tex .22 LR", to be worth $30 to $100, probably made in Germany and imported via Miami, FL. The company is long defunct.
This is some of the best advice you will get in this thread
Id just like to add.....Finger off the trigger until you are ready to send a round down range. You should be lining up the shot before your finger comes even close to the trigger.
EVERY gun is loaded....period Weather there is bullets in it or not, or weather the saftey is on or not....Treat it as if it were loaded...end of the bbl in a safe direction and FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER (not yelling just empasizing)
Example...this is my 13yrold son (10 at the time this pic was taken) Note where his finger is...i didnt have to tell him to do this..for him its muscle memory...its from dad telling him to "keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot"..... every time we went to the range (still do)
Heck i now catch him when hes playing airsoft keeping his finger off the trigger of his airsoft guns. Its natural reaction now
Not trying to sound preachy....just want you and your friend to be around for another 80 odd years :aok
(http://i888.photobucket.com/albums/ac82/mbailey166066/IMG_7304.jpg)
Found this for ya as well.....I already googled it for ya :D
https://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&aq=&oq=Wisconson+nra+saftey+course&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGHP_enUS438US438&q=Wisconson+nra+saftey+course&gs_l=hp....0.0.0.6281...........0.g_-G5wIQWXk
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Around here where I live in Vermont, I cant find 22 at all. My daughter inherited my chipmunk 22 so decided we could go shoot it. no stores had 22 ammo. hence the reason I shot OLD ammo :lol
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THIS is the way to do it :rofl https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5TggMyoVL4
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Definition of a firearm safety: "A safety is a mechanical device that can fail."
Your real safety is located between your ears.
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Around here ammo is fairly easy and cheap to come by. Wisconsin (or at least the city I live in) isn't being hit with this ammo shortage that everyone else is dealing with.
we got his last year during "the scare". i was stocking up on 30-06 for my garand and my 1903, while they were plentiful and cheap. .45, .40, 9mm, .223, and 5.56 were scarce as $%$^% for a bit around here, but .22lr wasn't. now, they've caught up on all of the other calibers, and they're plentiful and cheap....but i've seen .22lr selling for as high as $75 for a 500 round brick. that's crazy prices right there. that brick should sell for $25 at MOST.......thankfully i've got a summers worth of it.
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Definition of a firearm safety: "A safety is a mechanical device that can fail."
Your real safety is located between your ears.
this is the reason that i don't carry my 1911 locked and cocked. i've been timed when doing training courses. it takes me less than a second longer to present and fire than it does the guys using their glocks in the class. when i transition from rifle to pistol, both hands are already there, to clear clothing out of the way, so it's a very simple task to rack/present/shoot.
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this is the reason that i don't carry my 1911 locked and cocked. i've been timed when doing training courses. it takes me less than a second longer to present and fire than it does the guys using their glocks in the class. when i transition from rifle to pistol, both hands are already there, to clear clothing out of the way, so it's a very simple task to rack/present/shoot.
Um.... the 1911 was designed to be loaded, then cocked, then locked. Even Mr. Browning said so himself. How a gun is enabled to fire is not the same from one model to the next. If you're familiar with the 1911, Gluck, Sig 226, and Beretta 92, and a SW Mod 10 revolver for good measure, you'll know that in each gun the actions needed to enable or disable the fire function is different.
A 1911 is far more safe if it is cocked-n-locked on a loaded chamber than when the hammer is down. Same goes for the Hi-Power. ;)
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Um.... the 1911 was designed to be loaded, then cocked, then locked. Even Mr. Browning said so himself. How a gun is enabled to fire is not the same from one model to the next. If you're familiar with the 1911, Gluck, Sig 226, and Beretta 92, and a SW Mod 10 revolver for good measure, you'll know that in each gun the actions needed to enable or disable the fire function is different.
A 1911 is far more safe if it is cocked-n-locked on a loaded chamber than when the hammer is down. Same goes for the Hi-Power. ;)
i know it was designed to be carried that way. safetys can fail. if there's nothing in the chamber, it cannot discharge. when drawing, both hands are right there anyway, to move clothing out of the way. it is a very very simple matter to clear clothing, with right hand, as i release the pistol from the holster. as i'm drawing, right hand on top, rack the slide as i present, and if necessary fire. i've done it this way in training classes, and am nearly as quick from draw to fire as the glock guys. less than a second difference.
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Whatever works. :aok
I wouldn't be confident enough that I'd always have both hands free.
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I have had the safety on my hunting rife get pushed off while going through timber and whatnot, so what I do with my winchester model 70 is to load it and put 1 in chamber then I pull the trigger and close the bolt on the round in the chamber, this releases the pressure on the firing pin and can only be fired by raising the bolt and closing it back down. It only takes a second to open and close it if you see an animal.
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Um.... the 1911 was designed to be loaded, then cocked, then locked. Even Mr. Browning said so himself.
He should have mentioned this to whoever wrote the original manual, then.
"2. Do not carry the pistol in the holster with the hammer cocked and safety lock on, except in an emergency."
http://books.google.com/books?id=hs9BAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA16&dq=second+finger+on+trigger&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1#v=onepage&q=second%20finger%20on%20trigger&f=false
- oldman
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I thought the internet had moved on from which condition is proper to carry a 1911 in.
A single action pistol is supposed to be single action.
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He should have mentioned this to whoever wrote the original manual, then.
"2. Do not carry the pistol in the holster with the hammer cocked and safety lock on, except in an emergency."
http://books.google.com/books?id=hs9BAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA16&dq=second+finger+on+trigger&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1#v=onepage&q=second%20finger%20on%20trigger&f=false
- oldman
You left half of number 2 back at the link. Where it says, if you carry condition 1 don't knock the safety off accidentally when drawing.
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You left half of number 2 back at the link. Where it says, if you carry condition 1 don't knock the safety off accidentally when drawing.
My guess is that's the principal reason they advised you not to carry the piece cocked and locked.
Hey, I'm not standing in the way of progress, but I don't think that John Browning intended people to carry in Condition One. It works that way, but that wasn't the point of the post.
And frankly, I'm with Cap1. I carry mine with an empty chamber and the hammer cocked. If I had it in a hip holster I might choose differently, but in a shoulder holster I always worry about what's behind me.
- oldman
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When I read a warning that your personal defense weapon should be carried unable to fire I assume it was written by a liability lawyer.
I'm not disputing your choice. You know your situation best.
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He should have mentioned this to whoever wrote the original manual, then.
"2. Do not carry the pistol in the holster with the hammer cocked and safety lock on, except in an emergency."
http://books.google.com/books?id=hs9BAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA16&dq=second+finger+on+trigger&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1#v=onepage&q=second%20finger%20on%20trigger&f=false
- oldman
If I have to go in to details as to why you read what you did, and the differences of design and purpose, then the point will miss you regardless.
As for those who make mention of not carrying a round in the chamber on a hunting rifle, there are no issues with that and I for one do the same. Empty chamber, with striker/firing pin cocked, and round in magazine. Upon the beginning of a stalk I'll load the chamber and keep the safety on. Hunting rifles are an entirely different monster than a combat handgun. Another monster even yet is a varmint rifle with a "target" trigger, meaning a trigger so light that barely touching it will release the striker. The trigger on my Savage 112FV/.223 built in 1994 has an adjustable trigger and even slamming the bolt home (very) hard will set the rifle off. So, unless I'm on a bench or on top of a prairie dog mound sending varmints every which way but down, there is no round in the chamber. Thankfully, after years of use and thousands of rounds (yes, 1000's) the action is as smoooooth as glass and a slam fire has not happened in years. My coyote gun is a Rem 700 ADL/.22-250 and that trigger is set to factory weight. That too keeps an empty chamber until I'm in my spot to call in the 'yotes. My antelope/deer rifle is a Rem 700 Mt Rifle in 7mm-08, an that too keeps an empty chamber until the stalk begins. I HIGHLY recommend the use of the safety in hunting rifles while in the act of hunting. Learn the rifle, that means investing in ammo, range time, and function time (act of hunting).
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If I have to go in to details as to why you read what you did, and the differences of design and purpose, then the point will miss you regardless.
Try me, sharp guy.
- oldman
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Try me, sharp guy.
- oldman
.... if you can't distinguish between design and function, vs application... then what difference would it make for me to spell it out?
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.... if you can't distinguish between design and function, vs application... then what difference would it make for me to spell it out?
...why...you would educate the ignorant, always a worthy goal.
- oldman
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...why...you would educate the ignorant, always a worthy goal.
- oldman
Ignorance isn't what you have, perhaps confusion maybe? Hence me spelling out the three terms in which I was describing in my original statement.
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Ignorance isn't what you have, perhaps confusion maybe? Hence me spelling out the three terms in which I was describing in my original statement.
It's good for reasonable people to think differently and have different points of view. You often learn something new.
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My guess is that's the principal reason they advised you not to carry the piece cocked and locked.
Hey, I'm not standing in the way of progress, but I don't think that John Browning intended people to carry in Condition One. It works that way, but that wasn't the point of the post.
And frankly, I'm with Cap1. I carry mine with an empty chamber and the hammer cocked. If I had it in a hip holster I might choose differently, but in a shoulder holster I always worry about what's behind me.
- oldman
i carry mine in a blackhawk cqb holster. i'm in/out of cars a lot, and worry about bumping the safety to the off position...and you know how the trigger is on a good 1911. :D
that said, as mentioned, when i've taken courses, we've practiced transitioning from rifle to pistol, and it is honestly amazing just how easy/quick it is to have the pistol drawn, racked, and presented.
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Guilty of not reading every post so I apologize if this is a repeat. Many of those F.I.E single actions do not have a transfer bar. What this means is that when the hammer is down on a loaded chamber it engages the firing pin. More modern designs use a transfer bar that transfers the hammer blow to the firing pin when fired, but allows dropping the hammer slowly on a loaded chamber with no hammer to firing pin contact.
Short version is that with no transfer bar, its best to carry with the chamber under the hammer empty. So on a 6 shooter you load 5. Otherwise you have a firing pin resting against a primer.
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Guilty of not reading every post so I apologize if this is a repeat. Many of those F.I.E single actions do not have a transfer bar. What this means is that when the hammer is down on a loaded chamber it engages the firing pin. More modern designs use a transfer bar that transfers the hammer blow to the firing pin when fired, but allows dropping the hammer slowly on a loaded chamber with no hammer to firing pin contact.
Short version is that with no transfer bar, its best to carry with the chamber under the hammer empty. So on a 6 shooter you load 5. Otherwise you have a firing pin resting against a primer.
I cant even begin to think of when transfer bars were standard for revolvers, too. I know my Mod. 10 made in 1967 has a "hammer block safety", or transfer bar as most know it as. Ditto for my newer Mod 67 and 686+. Also, iirc, it is the 1911A1 and later models that all have the hammer block safety. So I'm guessing all of the 1911's models post 1920's will have a hammer block.
Even my Ruger Vaquero single action revolver has a hammer block transfer bar.