Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: kilo2 on May 20, 2014, 04:25:42 AM
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The Ki-84 is OP and should be nerfed.
The wep is OP.
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or down with OPP?
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The Ki-84 is OP and should be nerfed.
The wep is OP.
:headscratch:
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QUAH!!!!
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Hey Jeffers!!! How ya doing man? Get back into the game!!!
QUAH!
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The Ki-84 is OP and should be nerfed.
The wep is OP.
How so? The use/cooldown ratio is the same as on many other fighters, except instead of 10 minutes use/5 minutes cooldown it is only 1.5 minutes use/ 45 seconds cooldown. If the Ki-84's WEP is OP, then the Bf109K-4's and Ta152's (as examples) are also OP. Those all have four times the WEP recharge rate of British aircraft.
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What's the difference between the TA and Dora recharge rates?
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What's the difference between the TA and Dora recharge rates?
Both should be 10min run / 5min recharge.
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ok what do you mean buy "nerfed" and the the "heck" is op?????????????
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nerfed = downgraded,
OP = over powered,
my only comments on the ki-84 is it's ability to soak up more rounds than other planes but I guess that is a different can of worms.
In short it is a spit 16 in drag minus the ability to pull G at high speed but gaining in the stall.
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yeah i fly the p-51d and the only way i can kill a ki-84 is if he's chasing someone and i'm chasing him. :joystick:
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I feel an avatar is in order if you really think it is OP..
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I fly the KI84 a lot and think it is a great plane. I'm surprised its not more popular. It needs some attention when diving to avoid shedding parts, but it seems under utilized for how capable it is. Maybe just because I fly it a lot, there are some faults I don't notice as much or maybe Lusche will chime in and show its just my perception that it doesn't get used a lot.
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I fly the KI84 a lot and think it is a great plane. I'm surprised its not more popular. It needs some attention when diving to avoid shedding parts, but it seems under utilized for how capable it is. Maybe just because I fly it a lot, there are some faults I don't notice as much or maybe Lusche will chime in and show its just my perception that it doesn't get used a lot.
been trying to stay out of this as I am biased...
but I have noticed far more 84's around then ever before.
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The Ki-84 is definitely on my short-list of planes not to mess with for too long in a 51. That thing will very quickly equalize when its at a slight E disadvantage and can crawl up your 6 seemingly effortlessly. Those Ho-5's are no joke either.
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I've started messing around in it.. Seems to be able to get on just about anythings six quickly and stay there. I have to figure the guns out still.. coming from flying 51s and 47s for a long time the slower rate of fire makes me miss alot.
Fun plane that's been useful in base defense so far.
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I've started messing around in it.. Seems to be able to get on just about anythings six quickly and stay there. I have to figure the guns out still.. coming from flying 51s and 47s for a long time the slower rate of fire makes me miss alot.
Fun plane that's been useful in base defense so far.
the Ki IIRC has some of the fastest firing guns.... :headscratch:
set convergence at 300...land your hits at convergence.
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The plane is tough for me to kill so therefore it is over powered and should be nerfed.
Who made the flight model George Lucas?
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Why was this moved? It was a very general discussion?
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Why was this moved? It was a very general discussion?
Was probably interpreted as a wish for the ki84 to be nerfed.
I personally think it is fine in the gun department, while it surprises me at how much damage it can take, I still think it's fine the way it is.
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if you want to do something for the ki-84....add the 4x20 option...they made them in ww2 and used them. we did it for the f4u-c and they made less corsairs then ki-84 4x20mm
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Don't nerf, please buff. :)
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Who made the flight model George Lucas?
And the gun barrels will be swapped for walkie-talkies! :old:
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Im becoming rather fond of this airplane. I'd like to see the 4 20mm model as well.
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Don't get me started on realistic WEP or I might ask why aircraft who use an additive like Methanol or Nitrous for WEP have any regeneration at all outside a rearm pad.....
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Im becoming rather fond of this airplane. I'd like to see the 4 20mm model as well.
it would be more then just that.... :t
it was faster...handled better....climbed better.....AFAIK
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meh. Spitfire for guys who aren't out of the closet yet.
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A great fun plane to fly and fight in, once mastered .. :)
But yes they seem rather impervious to damage :(
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In my opinion it takes damage nicely. By that I mean if u play ur cards right you take small shots hesr or there but a good concentrated shot will still kill a 84. But if ur shots are out of convergence or an extreme deflection u will cause small damage.
Ussually that damage is more debilitating then u think. A stuck flap. An oil hit. A pw. Even the loss of an aileron limits the plane. Not every shot will be cripiling. And I like the ki and still have lots to learn. When I get a chance to fight ink 1v1 and walk away with his nod will I feel I am some what competent. The key to the ki not being the best in one area but good at a few is use ur few good trates to an other's disadvantage. I feel it is right where it needs to be.
"If you dont like the 84 fly it and learn its weaknesses so as to better fight it."
Im currently using the 51 just for that reason.
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Ki84 look funny when it lose the elevators at high speed.
The 4*20mm would be a nice perked option.
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Ki84 look funny when it lose the elevators at high speed.
The 4*20mm would be a nice perked option.
:lol Do this and it would be the best ride in the game. As it is now the Hayate is easily in the top 5, maybe the top 3 most capable. The hi speed handling issue is a "NON ISSUE" for a plane that can equalize E so efficiently and quickly.
It is possibly #1 in rides when facing multiple or "horde" threats.
JUGgler
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:lol Do this and it would be the best ride in the game. As it is now the Hayate is easily in the top 5, maybe the top 3 most capable. The hi speed handling issue is a "NON ISSUE" for a plane that can equalize E so efficiently and quickly.
It is possibly #1 in rides when facing multiple or "horde" threats.
JUGgler
I always admired the Hayate, I usually flew 2-3 main rides per tour, the Ki-84 was always one of them, whether I was in the c.205 or P-38 the Ki-84 was my "Go to" ride.
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The Ki-84 was my trainer ride. It is already very capable and doesn't need any more cannons.
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The Ki-84 was my trainer ride. It is already very capable and doesn't need any more cannons.
bad news for you, the Ki-84c flew in combat strength with 4x 20mms.
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bad news for you, the Ki-84c flew in combat strength with 4x 20mms.
b, not c. c would have had two 20mm and two 30mm cannons, but that one never saw combat. Seems to have never seen testing with two 30mm cannons even.
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bad news for you, the Ki-84c flew in combat strength with 4x 20mms.
How is that bad news for me? :rolleyes:
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The Ki-84 is OP and should be nerfed.
The wep is OP.
I may be wrong but i thought Hitech said that planes would not be changed without evidence that says it is wrong
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b, not c. c would have had two 20mm and two 30mm cannons, but that one never saw combat. Seems to have never seen testing with two 30mm cannons even.
I always thought it was the C, i get those mixed up, there was a prototype built, problem was the 30mms were not developed so it eventually converted back to 4x 20mms for homeland defense.
ironically there is a photo out there that shows a destroyed japanese airfield with the C model in the background, far as I know it was never flown in combat.
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While I do like the Ki-84 and don't think anything is wrong with it, although it can take a beating. I think that the 4x20mm would, obviously, be perked. As for the price, I would say between 40-75 perks. I'd think that as fair. Considering the tempest has 4 20mm and packs a punch, but isn't on the 'same level' as the ki84 for dogfighting.
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While I do like the Ki-84 and don't think anything is wrong with it, although it can take a beating. I think that the 4x20mm would, obviously, be perked. As for the price, I would say between 40-75 perks. I'd think that as fair. Considering the tempest has 4 20mm and packs a punch, but isn't on the 'same level' as the ki84 for dogfighting.
Tempest can escape, Ki-84 cannot from many free aircraft. The inability to escape is what made the Spit XIV such a poor perk plane.
I have no objection to the Ki-84-Ib being perked, but it ought to be in the 2 to 5 perk point range.
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Tempest can escape, Ki-84 cannot from many free aircraft. The inability to escape is what made the Spit XIV such a poor perk plane.
I have no objection to the Ki-84-Ib being perked, but it ought to be in the 2 to 5 perk point range.
*shrug*
I guess I'm not really qualified to speak on matters such as these really, having been out of the game for nearly 7 months now. :salute
:airplane:
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(http://www.professor-plm.com/ProfPlum72.jpg)
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Tempest can escape, Ki-84 cannot from many free aircraft. The inability to escape is what made the Spit XIV such a poor perk plane.
I have no objection to the Ki-84-Ib being perked, but it ought to be in the 2 to 5 perk point range.
Shouldnt be perked no more then the C-Hog.
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Shouldnt be perked no more then the C-Hog.
A Ki-84 is the better of a C/D Hog is most respects related to dogfighting. If anything, a 4-cannon should have a higher perk price.
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The Ki84 is a Spit16 with a Japanese logo. Anyone who says otherwise is either deluding themselves or being intentionally dishonest.
One could argue the Ki84 is a better plane in many respects. Consider the following:
- Ki84 guns are less accurate but have more ammo.
- Ki84 is far better than the Spit16 in the durability department
- Both have similar handling characteristics. Turn and roll rate slightly favors the Spitteen but its slight.
- Speed is almost identical between the two below 10K (i.e. where most MA fights take place).
- The Spittteen climbs better, but it's not like the Ki84 is a P39 in that department.
Thus why I chuckle when I hear Ki84 regulars rip pilots who fly the Spitteen. Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas.
So why would we want a plane like this to have four 20mm cannons instead of two? So the chest-pounders can have yet another ride to fly regularly, reap kills on baby seals and feel fantastic about themselves?
Sorry. But there are far more interesting planes out there I'd personally rather HTC spend time modeling than working on "supercharging" an already dominant plane.
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+1 to the four cannon 84.
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KI84 is not a Spit16. It is a great dogfighter and fits the same sort of slot as the 16, but its different enough that players choose it way less. The 16 out climbs it by a little, out turns it before flaps, out accelerates it and out dives it.
It takes more damage than a Spit, but that doesn't seem to offset the other stuff for most folks.
A 4 cannon would be popular and probably warrant a perk price.
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How so? The use/cooldown ratio is the same as on many other fighters, except instead of 10 minutes use/5 minutes cooldown it is only 1.5 minutes use/ 45 seconds cooldown. If the Ki-84's WEP is OP, then the Bf109K-4's and Ta152's (as examples) are also OP. Those all have four times the WEP recharge rate of British aircraft.
Correct, as I recall it, almost. Soda's eval page for AH states it to be 3 seconds on for 1 second off. But I believe it cycles quickly, and this corresponds to historical reality. I don't understand the beef.
Oh, wait, I guess I do. Schen shot me down the other night from his ki. Nerf that cheating POS aircraft and cut off one of Schen's fingers while you're at it. Then call me a waaaahmbulance so that they can pack my sore pink Petey in ice to get the swelling down.
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C Hog should have a higher eny then KI84 with 4 20s.
C Hog has Hispanos
C Hog can carry 4 rockets and 2x1000
KI can out "knife fight" a C Hog but in the MA a C Hog can be a lot more proficient killer when it's at a fight where all it's doing is BnZ because of the high speed handles, dive speed, and the guns of the C Hog.
Even in a knife fight any of the Hogs can do well against KI if they are CO E.
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Correct, as I recall it, almost. Soda's eval page for AH states it to be 3 seconds on for 1 second off. But I believe it cycles quickly, and this corresponds to historical reality. I don't understand the beef.
Oh, wait, I guess I do. Schen shot me down the other night from his ki. Nerf that cheating POS aircraft and cut off one of Schen's fingers while you're at it. Then call me a waaaahmbulance so that they can pack my sore pink Petey in ice to get the swelling down.
I feel humbled to even be mentioned, that being said I would agree if a 4 hispano 84 came to the game it would warrent a perk price, where to place that I'm sure htc would have an idea.
As for the 84 to a spit xvi there are differences as mentioned in previous , posts but what has yet to be mentioned is that in the hands of a competent player, understanding acm, energy and knowing their opponent the Ki is a great aircraft and can compete with a spit but is not on par with it. Thou if you were to take a new player and put him in the spit and then a ki , he/she has a better chance for success in the spit, it is a more stable and much more friendly airframe to fly.
Edit: The spitfire xvi has the ki 84 to attribute to 2.6% of its losses as of now tour 173. Compared to 10% by the p-51 and arguably the spitfire can out turn and out climb the 51 under 10k. Thou that's a diff class of aircraft, how bout 3% losses to the nikj or even 4.2 % by other spit 16s. These are just stats and u can take them them as you will but to say the spit is outclassed by the 84 is really not the case, of course that is my opinion.
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Spiteen is a better fighter then the KI. It wins in everything but speed and range. It can out turn and out climb the KI and I think its "roll" is a little better then you give it credit for. Im sure the 16 can out dive the KI but I have no hard numbers before me.
They are both so close it comes down to the Pilot. The KI is a marvelous fighter for a 20 eny airplane. The Spiteen is so good at everything it gets boring to fly.
Im starting to like the KIs 2 250 kg bombs you can carry. For base defense its a nice little enabler when you have GVs running around. The KI-84 deserves all its accolades to be sure. A perked 4 Ho5 version would be a nice touch, tho I certainly wouldnt give it the edge over the C-Hog I think it would be a nice match up.
The Ki84 is a Spit16 with a Japanese logo. Anyone who says otherwise is either deluding themselves or being intentionally dishonest.
One could argue the Ki84 is a better plane in many respects. Consider the following:
- Ki84 guns are less accurate but have more ammo.
- Ki84 is far better than the Spit16 in the durability department
- Both have similar handling characteristics. Turn and roll rate slightly favors the Spitteen but its slight.
- Speed is almost identical between the two below 10K (i.e. where most MA fights take place).
- The Spittteen climbs better, but it's not like the Ki84 is a P39 in that department.
Thus why I chuckle when I hear Ki84 regulars rip pilots who fly the Spitteen. Vanitas vanitatum omnia vanitas.
So why would we want a plane like this to have four 20mm cannons instead of two? So the chest-pounders can have yet another ride to fly regularly, reap kills on baby seals and feel fantastic about themselves?
Sorry. But there are far more interesting planes out there I'd personally rather HTC spend time modeling than working on "supercharging" an already dominant plane.
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They are both so close it comes down to the Pilot.
If this statement is true then one cannot reasonably say the Spixteen is "better" than the Ki-84. What you have essentially said here in fact is that the Ki is a plane with superior speed and range on the Spixteen (and also much greater ammo load and durability, Ink claims it is about as tough a P-47) that can dogfight the Spixteen on an equal footing.
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For any who might be confused by my earlier statement, <clearing throat>
In no way do I think the KI-84 warrants nerfing nor do I honestly wish that Schen, a reasonable and honorable soul, as far as I know, deserves to lose a finger. I was merely making mock of the OP who, no doubt, has had a bad combat experience or two in opposition to the KI-84. My sincere apologies go to anyone who construed my comment as a desire to do bodily harm to Schen or, worse, to nerf the KI-84.
BTW, imj, he's pretty good in that KI opposite a Spit 16. I've killed higher ranking pilots from that Spitty who were a good deal more clueless.
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For any who might be confused by my earlier statement, <clearing throat>
In no way do I think the KI-84 warrants nerfing nor do I honestly wish that Schen, a reasonable and honorable soul, as far as I know, deserves to lose a finger. I was merely making mock of the OP who, no doubt, has had a bad combat experience or two in opposition to the KI-84. My sincere apologies go to anyone who construed my comment as a desire to do bodily harm to Schen or, worse, to nerf the KI-84.
BTW, imj, he's pretty good in that KI opposite a Spit 16. I've killed higher ranking pilots from that Spitty who were a good deal more clueless.
:salute sir and I am truly honoured to be referred to in such context, I hope to see you in the ma again, I enjoy a good fight.
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If this statement is true then one cannot reasonably say the Spixteen is "better" than the Ki-84.
Except you can pretty much say it about ANT two fighters in the game. Most of all the closely matched, of which there are many. What you have essentially said here in fact is that the Ki is a plane with superior speed and range on the Spixteen (and also much greater ammo load and durability, Ink claims it is about as tough a P-47) that can dogfight the Spixteen on an equal footing.
Nix the ammo load part. The 16 isnt weak enough on ammo to make that a factor. And the Hispanos are terrific guns. Nix the range part cause that is, 99% of the time, irrelevant. I dont know about the toughness part. Tho I'd say the KI-84 is the toughest Jap fighter that isnt saying much. I'd call it "competitive tough".
I do think the KI-84 can compete with the Spiteen on very close footing. I also would call the Spiteen superior. But not by a wide margin at all. The Spiteen is VERY easy mode. Personally I prefer the KI.
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N1k2is, I believe, the toughest Japanese fighter, but the ki84 ain't bad. As for fighting the ki from the sixteen, I seem to recall that badboy generated an e-m chart between the two and the spit has s lightly better turn performance. Usually, I feel pretty confident against most ki's in the spixteen, but occasionally, a good pilot can pen you from one. Meanwhile, with the 109g-14, I always feel disadvantaged opposite the ki. As for its durability: it's a radial. Also, parts, especially ailerons, seem to come loose at in opportune times. That said, my anecdotal read is that it's pretty robust.
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Except you can pretty much say it about ANT two fighters in the game. Most of all the closely matched, of which there are many.
Nix the ammo load part. The 16 isnt weak enough on ammo to make that a factor. And the Hispanos are terrific guns. Nix the range part cause that is, 99% of the time, irrelevant. I dont know about the toughness part. Tho I'd say the KI-84 is the toughest Jap fighter that isnt saying much. I'd call it "competitive tough".
I do think the KI-84 can compete with the Spiteen on very close footing. I also would call the Spiteen superior. But not by a wide margin at all. The Spiteen is VERY easy mode. Personally I prefer the KI.
the only time the 16 is a danger is when a fighting vet is in one.(talking 1vs1 in MA)
I do feel me vs me 16 vs Ki84 16 would win every time.
it is just so damn responsive....the only thing I don't like about it is.... it is fragile.
the Ki84 is definitely tougher then the N1K....
and leagues above the spits in that area.
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Not speaking to AH, but I do recall reading that the Ki-84 was designed and built to greater strength factors than any other Japanese plane.
I am, frankly, puzzled at its control surface shedding in AH.
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Not speaking to AH, but I do recall reading that the Ki-84 was designed and built to greater strength factors than any other Japanese plane.
I am, frankly, puzzled at its control surface shedding in AH.
Don't exceed 496mph indicated then, and my best guess is the fabric covered control surfaces at that speed, again best guess,
I remember my first time losing both ailerons in a 2v1 me being the one, I held on with a rudder and elevator for 2 mins before eating dust lol.
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Sounds pretty good this KL-48, I might have to give it a try.