Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Kingpin on May 21, 2014, 12:43:46 AM
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Hello all,
I've run what I think was a successful gunnery training course for VF-17 and am going to be doing so again. This time I will open up a few slots to the general public. I generally like to have no more than 6-8 people at once, so space may be limited. PM me if you are interested in attending, and I will let you know if there are slots open. I'll likely run another one of these and a continuation of the course, depending on interest, again in June or July.
The first night will be Wednesday, May 28th starting in the TA at 7:30 Central time and wrapping up around 9:30 Central time (in the DA.) It will be in two parts, roughly 1 hour each (roughly a 2 hour session total), with a short break in the middle to refill your beverage of choice. Again, a PM to me is required to participate, as I cap the number participants to allow for individual questions/issues.
This session will focus mostly on characteristics of the 6-gun 50-cal package, using the F4U-1A as the training aircraft for this session. I feel the F4U has some unique quirks that make it interesting, and getting kills with 50-cals has it's own nuances, so we'll use that aircraft specifically and discuss those things in this session. That said, many of the concepts discussed and practice methods demonstrated will apply to any/all aircraft and gun packages.
The specific layout and topics of the course are as follows:
Part 1a - Basics (Ground School, TA)
Convergence and Sights
Using the .target Command
Understanding and Visualizing the Bullet Stream
Effects of Range, Dispersion
How to Kill vs. How to Hit
Part 1b - Initial Practice (In Flight Training, TA)
Getting Concentrated Hits
Maneuvering and Unloaded Firing
Minimizing "Nose Bounce" (as needed)
"Shoot Around the Clock" Practice Method/Test I
"Shoot Around the Clock" Practice Method II
Break
Part 2a - The "Sight Picture" (In Flight Training, TA)
Inside Convergence Shooting Nuances
"One Wing" Shooting
Aiming vs. Leading
"Aim Small, Miss Small"
Part 2b - "Live Fire" Partner Practice in the DA
"Remove the Mossie's Gear I" Exercise - Level flight, Dead Six
"Remove the Mossie's Gear II" Exercise - 30% bank, Lead required
If time permits, I will discuss how some of the things learned in this session apply to different types of shots (Snap Shots, Tracking Shots, Dead Six Shots, etc.). Those topics will be covered in more detail in a follow-on Part 3: Deflection Shooting to be run later, which will be open to those who complete this first course (Part 1 and 2).
Feedback/suggestions for other gunnery related topics are welcome.
Again, please PM me if you are interested and I will let you know if there are slots open.
<S>
Ryno
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I'm working then Kingpin.. :mad:
but If you could record said class & upload it... I'd really be thankful & would name my next puppy after you..
thx
Wrngway
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I'm working then Kingpin.. :mad:
but If you could record said class & upload it... I'd really be thankful & would name my next puppy after you..
thx
Wrngway
Much of the first section of the class utilizes the .target command, which does NOT show up in AH recordings sadly (something I suggested as a Wishlist item a while back along with allowing someone who is attached to see your target as well). Unfortunately that means a recording will not do you much good, as you will not be able to see a good deal of what we are doing and what the participants can see live.
That said, I'll be scheduling another one of these sessions in the future and will make sure you are invited WW. If I do the future one on another night of the week, like a Monday, would that work any better for you?
<S>
Ryno
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Nice! :aok
Maybe record the session and post the films here afterwards for those who can't make it? :salute :cheers:
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Much of the first section of the class utilizes the .target command, which does NOT show up in AH recordings sadly (something I suggested as a Wishlist item a while back along with allowing someone who is attached to see your target as well). Unfortunately that means a recording will not do you much good, as you will not be able to see a good deal of what we are doing and what the participants can see live.
That said, I'll be scheduling another one of these sessions in the future and will make sure you are invited WW. If I do the future one on another night of the week, like a Monday, would that work any better for you?
<S>
Ryno
I have the weirdest work week of anyone I know..
You'll see me on any where between 2am & 5am until approx 9am est Sat thru Wed.. My days off are with the squad & starts around 9pm est..
Lots of stuff in the real world happening as well..
as much as I'd love to sit in, <shrug>
Wrngway
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Nice! :aok
Maybe record the session and post the films here afterwards for those who can't make it? :salute :cheers:
Hey Latrobe,
As I told Wrngway, some of what I do in this course uses the .target command, which does not show up in AH films, unfortunately. (Wish they would add that at some point.) I also spend the first few minutes in tower explaining the convergence and gunsight setup I use for the course. So, that wouldn't be in the film either.
If someone wants to come film it using some external software that can capture all that, then you are more than welcome.
Also, an update: I have a couple squaddies who can make Wednesday and a couple who can make Thursday next week, so I am going to run the course BOTH NIGHTS. I am therefore opening up the THURSDAY, May 29th 7:30 Central session to the public also. Please PM me to RSVP. Thanks!
<S>
Ryno
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Film records in the tower. You can start film in the tower, go flying, end flight, and still be recording back in the tower.
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I could maybe try and hop in to be a "cameraman" and record it with FRAPS. I could even then upload it to YouTube as a gunnery tutorial if you want me to or I can just upload the Mpeg file here. The problem is if I can actually make it. I'll have to see how real life plays out for me so I can't guarantee that I can make it.
If someone could get in there and record it that would definitely help out anyone who couldn't make it.
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I could maybe try and hop in to be a "cameraman" and record it with FRAPS. I could even then upload it to YouTube as a gunnery tutorial if you want me to or I can just upload the Mpeg file here. The problem is if I can actually make it. I'll have to see how real life plays out for me so I can't guarantee that I can make it.
If someone could get in there and record it that would definitely help out anyone who couldn't make it.
@FLS: You know, I complete forgot about that, as I use "auto-record" so it always starts and stops with flight. However, that still doesn't solve the issue of not being able to see the target and the results I'll be discussing.
@Latrobe: You are welcome if you can make it Latrobe! One of these days I'll take the time to learn how to use FRAPS and make films -- just so many other things on my plate.
<S> Gents
Ryno
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I was planning on recording our session on Thursday (Part 2) with FRAPS and putting that video on my channel. As for Part 1, I was going to put together a "review" video using the notes that I took when we did that session back in the day. I'll definitely run both videos by you, Ryno, before I make them live on my channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/AlexsFlyingClub/).
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I was planning on recording our session on Thursday (Part 2) with FRAPS and putting that video on my channel. As for Part 1, I was going to put together a "review" video using the notes that I took when we did that session back in the day. I'll definitely run both videos by you, Ryno, before I make them live on my channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/AlexsFlyingClub/).
Cool deal. Bonus points for you. :)
<S>
Ryno
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so.. unless that public school system scarred me for life.. that's 8:30 est.. on the 29th.. yeah I'll do my best to be there..
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so.. unless that public school system scarred me for life.. that's 8:30 est.. on the 29th.. yeah I'll do my best to be there..
Correct! Glad you can make it that night WW! See you then.
<S>
Ryno
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There is ONE more slot available for the Wednesday night session of the Gunnery clinic.
I am now also running the course on Thursday the 29th, also starting at 7:30 Central time in the TA. I have a few slots open yet for that night.
Please PM me if interested.
<S>
Ryno
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What about players that dont know of or belong to the forums?
There's many players that dont get the imfo from the BBS but they sure could benefit from the help.
:salute
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What about players that dont know of or belong to the forums?
There's many players that dont get the imfo from the BBS but they sure could benefit from the help.
:salute
Take the course Morf, then you can teach them. ;)
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Someone teach a class in not losing your cool when you die. I know of a LOT of people that could use that class. :lol
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Someone teach a class in not losing your cool when you die. I know of a LOT of people that could use that class. :lol
Step 1: Drink more. :cheers:
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:rock :cheers:
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What about players that dont know of or belong to the forums?
There's many players that dont get the imfo from the BBS but they sure could benefit from the help.
:salute
If there is anyone you want to recommend the gunnery course to, Morf, feel free to invite them and maybe PM me to let me know. Only recommendation is that they can use in-game voice comms, as that does make things easier. I have mentioned it to a couple of the new players I've run into in the TA recently, so they know about it and are welcome. I've factored the possibility of a couple "drop ins" into my numbers.
If I still have slots open, I was also thinking of making an announcement in the MA before the course starts, time permitting. I just don't want to get overwhelmed numbers wise, especially running though it again for the first time in a while.
If you just want to tell people I can run them through some gunnery basics, and to just look for me in the TA or MA (in game: RynoRush), that's cool too. Often I like helping new players more than I like flying in the MA anyway.
Let me know if you have any other ideas.
<S>
Ryno
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Take the course Morf, then you can teach them. ;)
:rofl :rofl :rofl If it was only so simple! :aok
I make no bones about telling players I'm the last guy to ask for advice on shooting,as my only advice is to get in close and once close,get closer! :lol
Maybe 1 day I'll have a monitor big enough to see the planes that I'm trying to shoot.
The only reason I asked about those not on the BBS is because I know alot of players who never read the forums and I didnt want to see them being excluded from a chance to participate.
:salute
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Good Evening Kingpin,
I just sent you a personal message regarding your 2 upcoming Gunnery Courses , tomorrow night and Thursday night, Sir!
would you mind if I sat in on your Gunnery Course for Weds night and Thursday night as well
I applaud you for stepping up and offering this to the AH Community! ~SALUTE~
TC
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WTG offering your help to others and give back to the community.
Wish I could do it, schedule too erratic atm, hopefully if you decide to do another one.
:salute
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Rotbaron, I'll try to shoot you a PM when I run another one in the future.
Thanks for the positive feedback gents.
<S>
Ryno
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Ill step in and run FRAPS for you sir. I should be wide open at that time.
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Ill step in and run FRAPS for you sir. I should be wide open at that time.
Cool Vudu! Thanks, bud.
Hopefully you'll pick up something useful in the exchange.
<S>
Ryno
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Ill step in and run FRAPS for you sir. I should be wide open at that time.
Awesome-Sauce..
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Yea till you see my shooting LOL that business will test you. :D but great training non the less.
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Yea till you see my shooting LOL that business will test you. :D but great training non the less.
A snappy salute to Vudu15, who took the time to run through the course, film it and discuss topics with me afterword.
Thanks for your dedication to helping the AH community!
<S>
Ryno
p.s. I really think you'd have been able to take the gear off that Mossie if ya turned your tracers on, ya sneaky devil. :)
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This was a very helpful and informative class. If he offers it again I highly recommend anyone to take it. Thanks for all the work you put in to do this for us Ryno. :airplane: :salute
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Heya KingPin,
Thanks for hosting this Gunnery Course, Sir!
my apologies for not being able to make it last night.......
I can't wait to see Vudu15's Fraps work with it
<S> and Thanks for Volunteering to step up and do this!
cheers
TC
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This was a very helpful and informative class. If he offers it again I highly recommend anyone to take it. Thanks for all the work you put in to do this for us Ryno. :airplane: :salute
You're very welcome. Thanks for the feedback Medic! I'm glad you liked it and got something out of it. I look forward to having you attend Part 2: Deflection Shooting when I get that organized.
By the way, Medic is the FIRST player I've run through the Gunnery Course to successfully complete the "Aim Small, Miss Small" test in his FIRST try -- the test is shooting to hit the bottom half of the left engine nacelle (only) on a Mossie VI in order to shoot the landing gear off but no other parts, then repeating that on the right side engine nacelle, without shooting the Mossie down. Not as easy as it sounds, especially in a Corsair, but after practicing a bit in the TA he did it on his first try in the DA! Kudos Medic18!
<S>
Ryno
Heya KingPin,
Thanks for hosting this Gunnery Course, Sir!
my apologies for not being able to make it last night.......
I can't wait to see Vudu15's Fraps work with it
<S> and Thanks for Volunteering to step up and do this!
cheers
TC
Thanks again TC for attending on Wednesday. We had even a few more players in Thursday's session, which went very smoothly. I think I was even better at conveying the information the second night.
Running the course was fun for me and I was glad to hear the positive feedback and the "oh, that's cool" comments, even during what I think are the kind of the "boring bits". I'm looking forward to running it again in the future and hope even more players can attend.
I had a squad-mate attend the last half of the course last night, who also ran film and will be posting that as well.
I'll share the links for films when they are ready.
<S>
Ryno
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I want to thank you also Ryno, it was time well spent.
Everyone knows I complain about having the worst aim in the world due to lack of practice time. However the time spent listening to the hows and whys of gunnery made a lot of sense and may have clicked something "on" in my head.
I got to fly about 6 hours Saturday, and even though fights were hard to find and its the end of the month and the "numbers" don't change much my hit percentage went up a point and a half. Thats a big jump for the end of the month! Most of it was "how" I was aiming. Your tips and explinations help me see where I was going wrong and those small adjustments zeroed me in a bit better.
Thanks again for taking the time and I look forward to Part 2!
Anyone looking to improve their aim should definitely make the time to attend this class when Ryno gives it again.
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Did anyone record it? Even though my gunnery is fairly good enough as it is, I wouldn't mind learning something new!
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Did anyone record it? Even though my gunnery is fairly good enough as it is, I wouldn't mind learning something new!
Search for vuduvince on youtube I believe he released his first of 6 vids of the night
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Search for vuduvince on youtube I believe he released his first of 6 vids of the night
Unfortunately, you may notice that Vudu's video doesn't show all of the .target commands we were discussing in Part 1 and 2 of the films, as it appears to stay on the 325 yard bullet pattern the whole time. So you aren't actually seeing all the bullet dispersion patterns we were discussing. In other words, what you'll see won't coincide exactly to what I'm talking about in the course.
That said, the purpose of the first section of the course is to demonstrate how to see what your bullet stream(s) look like at various ranges and how the bullet stream(s) are affected by convergence settings. If you listen to the distances (.target commands) being discussed, I think you can still get that concept out of the films 1 & 2.
<S>
Ryno
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Kingpin - :salute
I've just finished watching your Gunnery Course on Vudu's YouTube library. Filled up a dozen Post-Its. :)
For years I've relied on 'luck' for any air-to-air success and I lacked the imagination to invent anything more than rudimentary drills for offline practice.
Your series talks to fundamentals and building confidence. It's smart to practice, but damned hard to practice "smart".
Thanks for the effort of doing the course. It has helped me greatly. I have a method now for making better use of my practice time.
Ratsy
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Kingpin - :salute
I've just finished watching your Gunnery Course on Vudu's YouTube library. Filled up a dozen Post-Its. :)
For years I've relied on 'luck' for any air-to-air success and I lacked the imagination to invent anything more than rudimentary drills for offline practice.
Your series talks to fundamentals and building confidence. It's smart to practice, but damned hard to practice "smart".
Thanks for the effort of doing the course. It has helped me greatly. I have a method now for making better use of my practice time.
Ratsy
Thanks for the feedback Ratsy. That's great stuff to hear! I couldn't agree more with your point on "practicing smart".
I believe very much in the saying that "Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect." (Vince Lombardi) Cal Ripken Sr. is attributed with expanding the thought to: "Don’t just practice. Practice right, and you’ll do things right in the game. Practice doesn't make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect." I bet Cal Jr. heard that a lot growing up, and it probably helped make him a great ball-player.
To continue the baseball analogy: if you ever played little-league, hopefully the coach didn't just start hitting ground balls at you and hope you figured out how to field them. A good coach would first show you the fundamentals of how to field a ground ball, and then start hitting them at you. But much of our early experiences in Aces High are like a little league kid jumping into a game (sometimes against pros!) and hoping to figure it out, without really knowing what to do. Unfortunately, that means a lot ground balls getting by you and taking a few bruises in the process as well. It can be frustrating.
So, what I'm trying to do is come up with a methodical approach to gunnery, where you first focus on basic fundamentals. It might seem boring or tedious at first, but I have found some of these fundamentals are an eye-opener, even for experienced players. I've had veteran players discover flaws in their stick setups they were unaware of, just from running through the exercises in the basic course. These fundamentals such as understanding your bullet stream, convergence settings and gunsight; flying smoothly to the shot; shooting while unloaded (when you can); thinking "aim small, miss small" and flying to set up the proper sight picture before pulling the trigger are all things I feel are important before even starting to practice shooting.
I'll glad you took the time to review the videos and are putting them to use in your practice. Hopefully this initial stuff lays a good foundation for you and will pay off in more accurate shooting. I'll also keep you in mind when I start offering more advanced shooting courses later.
<S>
Ryno
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the test is shooting to hit the bottom half of the left engine nacelle (only) on a Mossie VI in order to shoot the landing gear off but no other parts, then repeating that on the right side engine nacelle, without shooting the Mossie down.
As the self appointed president of the Mosquito Preservation Society I thank you for your work on educating corsair players in methods of how to not shoot down a mosquito. :salute
:D
But seriously, I just wanted to thank Kingpin for making this course happen. It is extremely valuable to the community and in welcoming new players to the game/community. It is endeavors like this and members like Kingpin that make this game and community so great. We need the occasional blast of positive attitude to wash out the usual petty whining that a new plays may encounter when entering these boards.
:salute