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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Randy1 on May 22, 2014, 01:14:35 PM

Title: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Randy1 on May 22, 2014, 01:14:35 PM
In Lusche's wish and in past threads, the two country approach keeps coming up as an alternative to the current three country setup.

Outside of the technical issues, why would two countries be a bad idea?  I assume someone with a good deal of past experience might be able to say how we got to the three country system we have now.

Seems to me two countries is the way to go but I don't have the wherewithal to be sure that is the way to go.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: whiteman on May 22, 2014, 01:21:48 PM
If the perceived hoarding now is bad, imagine the fun getting railroaded with only one option of attack.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: sunfan1121 on May 22, 2014, 01:27:31 PM
It's great fun to fight against a horde. I don't see a problem with more action. Aces high matchmaking, just like everything else, is user created. Less choice means more action.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Wiley on May 22, 2014, 01:40:18 PM
Well, you wouldn't have to worry about seeing that big juicy bardar and not being able to do anything about it because it's not on your country's front.  Even if one side did horde up and start facerolling maps, I can't see how it would be much different than what happens now.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: The Fugitive on May 22, 2014, 01:42:17 PM
HiTech tried all combinations through warbirds to aces high. He found that 3 sides works best for keeping things more even and playability. I read that some place on the boards. On my phone or I'd look it up.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Stampf on May 22, 2014, 01:43:14 PM


Two for Tuesdays.  

Give it a rip.

Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Nathan60 on May 22, 2014, 02:05:23 PM

Two for Tuesdays.  

Give it a rip.


Good compromise
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: mthrockmor on May 22, 2014, 02:58:27 PM
New motto: "Two for Tuesdays!" I give it a solid +1

A week or so ago about 40 of us ended up in the WW1 arena during a map change. The fight lasted 15 minutes or so. What was interesting is the sideswitching rapidly resulted in almost everyone one two sides, with great fights. Cleary AH is seeing a dip in the number of sticks. Going to two sides, and of course the oft discussed 12-hour rule could result in better fights.

As for AH having tried everything....I remember when they would have one Late War arena then sharply at 5PM they would close that and open two, smaller latewar arenas. When that happend 100-150 would promptly log off. It basically dumped the fight. AH changed that, kept the one arena open full-time, which is where we are at now.

Let's give two sides a try on night a week for a few hours and see what happens. Likely it would require some randomization on which chess piece you get the first time, and they may need to change the side switch rule to allow a more dynamic, organic adjustment to imbalance....

Let's see what happens!
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: FLS on May 22, 2014, 03:04:04 PM
So which country gets to rage quit Tuesday?
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: shoresroad on May 22, 2014, 03:14:59 PM
So which country gets to rage quit Tuesday?

Someone posted a good idea on this several weeks ago: two new country names such as Eagles and Falcons, etc. so no existing country feels jilted.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: TheCrazyOrange on May 22, 2014, 03:15:32 PM
I feel like auto balancing would be needed then. Resides, nothing good about side loyalty, and this would just increase that.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: shoresroad on May 22, 2014, 03:24:16 PM
...nothing good about side loyalty, and this would just increase that.

Side loyalty creates a sense of teamwork.  Many players like teamwork at both the squad and country levels.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Randy1 on May 22, 2014, 03:26:43 PM
. . . side loyalty, and this would just increase that.

Side Loyalty when there is a choice between sides is a part of one's profile I would think.  The percent of people who share that type of profile is probably fairly constant.  Meaning, in very course terms, you either are a loyalest or not. I don't think two countries would effect the number of side loyal people.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: FLS on May 22, 2014, 03:30:17 PM
What terrains would you use?

Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: BnZs on May 22, 2014, 03:32:25 PM
See rule #4
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: kvuo75 on May 22, 2014, 03:39:04 PM
Side loyalty creates a sense of teamwork.  Many players like teamwork at both the squad and country levels.

you can have teamwork without being chesspiece loyal.

chesspiece loyalty in this game is especially silly as all 3 sides are essentially identical.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: caldera on May 22, 2014, 03:42:04 PM
Someone posted a good idea on this several weeks ago: two new country names such as Eagles and Falcons, etc. so no existing country feels jilted.

The teams could be US vs THEM.

What terrains would you use?



Lots of good 2 country terrains are already made.



Two for Tuesdays. 

Give it a rip.



+1
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: shoresroad on May 22, 2014, 03:50:00 PM
What terrains would you use?

As mentioned above there are already good two sided maps used in FSO and Special Events, but also some of the large MA maps could be used.  Their size might offset any slight lack of perfect balance at the beginning of the war.  If Hitech set their mind to it I'm sure they could work out a fun solution.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: FLS on May 22, 2014, 03:53:14 PM
The teams could be US vs THEM.

Lots of good 2 country terrains are already made.


+1

As mentioned above there are already good two sided maps used in FSO and Special Events, but also some of the large MA maps could be used.  Their size might offset any slight lack of perfect balance at the beginning of the war.  If Hitech set their mind to it I'm sure they could work out a fun solution.

A lot of great maps are not designed for balanced MA base capture gameplay. Current MA maps are 3 sided.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Aspen on May 22, 2014, 04:08:40 PM
Chess piece loyalty makes life easier for larger squads that want to fly together.  I see no issue with trying a 2 country day for a while.  Heck, just something new usually spurs some activity.  I don't see chess pieces being an issue for our squad, if Knits weren't one of the countries we would just choose one thats available and all fly that.

What map is no big deal to me.  If it has a bases close enough to fly to and fight and somewhere to fight with GVs, I'm good. 

I would guess that with the new terrain work being done, modifying existing terrains for an experiment might not be on the green light list even if HTC does think the idea has merit, which they may not.

Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Bear on May 22, 2014, 04:10:00 PM
   There is two Countries!!  AvA at one time back, Squads and lots Players were in there every night.  Then 4 or 5 Persons changed Set-Up. Every One gone.  Too bad it's Sad.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: ROC on May 22, 2014, 04:14:25 PM
Upcoming Scenario has 2 countries.  Balanced event, hordes will be met with opposing hordes.

Looking forward to everyone who posted advocating 2 sides to join up  :rock
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Vraciu on May 22, 2014, 04:17:43 PM
It...the time it takes....orbit the sun.


Lmao!   :rofl  :rock  :cheers:  :aok
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Canspec on May 22, 2014, 04:44:07 PM
I feel like auto balancing would be needed then. Resides, nothing good about side loyalty, and this would just increase that.

I'm sure there was something mentioned that might make side balancing a little easier for a two sided game......I'm sure someone has mentioned it before....just can't remember...... :old:
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: lunatic1 on May 22, 2014, 04:44:24 PM
you'all would not be talkin about "TITANIC TUESDAY" would you?????????????????????????????????
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Stampf on May 22, 2014, 04:44:50 PM
Upcoming Scenario has 2 countries.  Balanced event, hordes will be met with opposing hordes.

Looking forward to everyone who posted advocating 2 sides to join up  :rock

<chuckle>

Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: caldera on May 22, 2014, 04:53:23 PM
Upcoming Scenario has 2 countries.  Balanced event, hordes will be met with opposing hordes.

Looking forward to everyone who posted advocating 2 sides to join up  :rock

Sure thing.  I love being told when, where, what and how I should fly.  :aok
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Aspen on May 22, 2014, 04:55:51 PM
you'all would not be talkin about "TITANIC TUESDAY" would you?????????????????????????????????

Was by far my favorite night to play, but I think it was still 3 sides.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: bustr on May 22, 2014, 05:13:00 PM
One night a week Titanic Tuesday style, two sides and unlimited side switching would work. But, only once a week.

As soon as it became the MA norm, 7 days a week. Human nature (we area always very bad kids gentlemen) would wring every bad thing possible out of it. Once a week the novelty factor would have us looking forward to the 24 hours of difference. ENY would have to be a ball buster to help everyone remember to side balance frequently instead of try to always be on the "winning" side of the kester whuppin.

The map would have to be some giant version of the TT and furball island mentality. Since side switching at will is greifing missions and other well laid plans to screw people for the sake of screwing people.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: ROC on May 22, 2014, 05:21:02 PM
Quote
Sure thing.  I love being told when, where, what and how I should fly.
Shoot, this entire forum would shut down if those conversations never happened  :rofl

Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Tinkles on May 22, 2014, 06:37:09 PM
One night a week Titanic Tuesday style, two sides and unlimited side switching would work. But, only once a week.

As soon as it became the MA norm, 7 days a week. Human nature (we area always very bad kids gentlemen) would wring every bad thing possible out of it. Once a week the novelty factor would have us looking forward to the 24 hours of difference. ENY would have to be a ball buster to help everyone remember to side balance frequently instead of try to always be on the "winning" side of the kester whuppin.

The map would have to be some giant version of the TT and furball island mentality. Since side switching at will is greifing missions and other well laid plans to screw people for the sake of screwing people.

Very interested in the 2 side Tuesday idea.

+1, can't hurt to try, sometimes things do change, other times not so much. At least if HTC tries it and it fails, then they can officially post on the BBS and the main page that they did it, so no more whines.  But, if it does work, then we get what we want.. more fights!  :rock
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: hitech on May 22, 2014, 07:26:01 PM
I already tried 2 counties and also 4 counties. So why must I try again?

Hitech
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: kilo2 on May 22, 2014, 07:28:16 PM
I already tried 2 counties and also 4 counties. So why must I try again?

Hitech

You see circumstances change. What didn't work yesterday may work today and vice versa.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Wiley on May 22, 2014, 07:30:06 PM
I already tried 2 counties and also 4 counties. So why must I try again?

Hitech

Was population comparable at the time?  My hunch it was quite a bit higher.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: mthrockmor on May 22, 2014, 07:57:45 PM
You see circumstances change. What didn't work yesterday may work today and vice versa.

 :aok
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: guncrasher on May 22, 2014, 08:19:22 PM
You see circumstances change. What didn't work yesterday may work today and vice versa.


curios about which circumstances changed. you need to be specific.



semp
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Oldman731 on May 22, 2014, 09:11:13 PM
As mentioned above there are already good two sided maps used in FSO and Special Events


Ranger and the other mapmakers can (and will) correct me, but AvA terrains, while beautiful and functional, will not reset in the same manner as MA terrains reset when there's a "win."

Might be able to fix that, but so far as I know that would require HTC reprogramming.

- oldman
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: phatzo on May 22, 2014, 09:23:44 PM
So which country gets to rage quit Tuesday?
Everyone defaults to Kings and Queens, no, that aint gunna work.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: hitech on May 22, 2014, 09:24:29 PM
It is not going to happen.

Hitech
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Vraciu on May 22, 2014, 11:04:20 PM
It is not going to happen.

Hitech

What if we wind up down to only two players like Warbirds?


(Just kidding!)

Two-sided map isn't a panacea, obviously.   But can't we just shrink the maps when the player numbers are lower?  It seems rather ridiculous to have twice as many bases as players.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: FLS on May 22, 2014, 11:41:09 PM
Any time 2 to 32 players are looking for a fight they can set up a custom arena with no icons, crosswind landing, night time, free for all, air spawns etc. on any terrain they want to use. The only thing they won't have is MA score.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: lunatic1 on May 23, 2014, 07:53:09 AM
Was population comparable at the time?  My hunch it was quite a bit higher.

Wiley.

yes--back then we had way more people
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: McShark on May 23, 2014, 08:13:06 AM
Any time 2 to 32 players are looking for a fight they can set up a custom arena with no icons, crosswind landing, night time, free for all, air spawns etc. on any terrain they want to use. The only thing they won't have is MA score.

Errr... would love to... yet>

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,361085.msg4816619.html#new (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,361085.msg4816619.html#new)
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Mister Fork on May 23, 2014, 09:36:11 AM
Errr... would love to... yet>

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,361085.msg4816619.html#new (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,361085.msg4816619.html#new)
or fly the AvA...
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: matt on May 23, 2014, 10:33:48 AM
 :rofl
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: BnZs on May 23, 2014, 11:02:59 AM
Horseapples! Da 'mishunz' exist to landgrab or toolshed while avoiding combat with other humans like the plague. Anytime a 262 or a Tempest appears over a mishun the game is being done a favor. The poor misguided souls who get shot out of their 110 or buff are also being done a favor, they now have the chance to up and head towards a red bar instead of avoiding it.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: captain1ma on May 23, 2014, 11:32:23 AM
Every Tuesday night the AVA does Staff squad night. its 2 sided.... bring a squad or 2 or 3 or more.... see how it works out! MA's have 3 sides, the AVA, the SEA and the FSO have 2 sides, give it a whirl!  take your pick!!
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Mongoose on May 23, 2014, 11:33:02 AM
Horseapples! Da 'mishunz' exist to landgrab or toolshed while avoiding combat with other humans like the plague.

  And what if it is?  It then becomes the mission of the opposing team to find the mission and defend against.  That is part of the fun.  

  Besides which, I have seen missions that were set up specifically to draw players into a dogfight.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: FLS on May 23, 2014, 12:14:45 PM
Errr... would love to... yet>

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,361085.msg4816619.html#new (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,361085.msg4816619.html#new)

I had trouble a couple of weeks ago but I was able to make and join an arena after that and I've seen other custom arenas since so it doesn't appear to affect everybody.

Edit: I just made a custom arena, no problems.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Randy1 on May 23, 2014, 12:22:43 PM
I already tried 2 counties and also 4 counties. So why must I try again?

Hitech

I figured there was a good reason but I was really interested in what the advantage of the three country system is compared to a two country.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Wiley on May 23, 2014, 12:30:43 PM
I've come to the realization that what I actually want by supporting this wish is for there to be more of a chance of opposing action for me to work against.  Number of countries doesn't matter, I just want to be able to get in on whatever action is available rather than watching a red bardar on the other front from across the map.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: BnZs on May 23, 2014, 12:33:08 PM
A mission designed to draw opposition cannot be harmed by the spiez the paranoiacs grouse about. Otherwise, if someone wishes to say that super-secret sneak missions are part of warfare, I will say so are spies, and I say may the cartoon gods bless them.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: uptown on May 23, 2014, 12:42:20 PM
I already tried 2 counties and also 4 counties. So why must I try again?

Hitech
:aok
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Vraciu on May 23, 2014, 12:55:01 PM
I already tried 2 counties and also 4 counties. So why must I try again?

Hitech

Because things have obviously changed.

"I already tried landing off the ILS and couldn't see the approach lights at minimums.   Why must I try again?"    Because the RVR has gone up.   You can get in now.   American and Delta just made it and they said they had the runway at 500 feet.   (Or you can head to your alternate if you so choose.  Whichever is safer.)
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Vraciu on May 23, 2014, 12:55:53 PM
I've come to the realization that what I actually want by supporting this wish is for there to be more of a chance of opposing action for me to work against.  Number of countries doesn't matter, I just want to be able to get in on whatever action is available rather than watching a red bardar on the other front from across the map.

Wiley.

I am with you on this one.   Chasing Dar Bars is boring.

Shrink the map in relation to player numbers and leave it three sided then.     I am guessing three sides dampens the volatility of the battles.   Only reasoning I can think of.  But the maps are way too big.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: lunatic1 on May 23, 2014, 01:24:16 PM
ok hitech said no---so thread needs to stop here, not 23 pages later
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: bozon on May 23, 2014, 02:22:20 PM
I am guessing three sides dampens the volatility of the battles.   Only reasoning I can think of.  But the maps are way too big.
On small maps three countries often produce three sided battles near the 3-borders point. Those are fun! You get twice the number of targets and it is funny to see one red guy shooting the other red guy off your 6 :)

Target rich environment for all 3 sides!
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Randy1 on May 23, 2014, 03:42:24 PM
My best guess is three countries is like what an old boss told me a long time ago about hiring women.  Never have them work in threes.  Two of them will always join together and fight the third.  I followed his advice.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: FLS on May 23, 2014, 03:44:19 PM
I figured there was a good reason but I was really interested in what the advantage of the three country system is compared to a two country.

Given the nature of the business I think you can safely assume that Hitech chooses the setup that maintains more subscribers.

Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Randy1 on May 23, 2014, 03:47:50 PM
Given the nature of the business I think you can safely assume that Hitech chooses the setup that maintains more subscribers.



I can't argue with that point.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: mthrockmor on May 24, 2014, 02:05:09 PM
HiTech is as fallible as anyone.

Again, it used to be one, late-war arena that would promptly close and open two more at the strike of 5PM. The one main had room for 600 sticks and would frequently have 400-500. When it closed at the magic strike and open to two, 100-150 would leave altogether. It took AH forever to figure out it was impacting the game. Maybe years past having this change from one to two worked, but life and business is dynamic. Things change. And if you don't change with it you are on a path to death.

I like the idea of doing a two-country setup in the MA on Tuesday nights for a period of time. Let it go on for 5 hours over 6-weeks and see what happens. One thing for certain, our numbers are slowly declining and in part this is due to the lack of fights. Increase fights, fewer will leave and if it works well, more will return.

Times change, get with the times or go home....old business saying.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: guncrasher on May 24, 2014, 02:23:13 PM
mthrockmor you are wrong.  when the two arenas would open there would be one that was full and it was hard to get in and the other had 200+ players.  everybody wanted to get into the arena that had the most players but was full, you would stay there sometimes for 10 or 15 minutes waiting to get in, but you got in.

I dont think many people logged off just because two arenas opened up.  the reason many people quit later on was because of the economy.  I had a lot of friends who lost their jobs and had no reason but to quit the game.  I remember because I and a few others who were lucky to have a job payed for other squadies's subscriptions.

numbers are increasing now, that can be clearly seen on fridays during fso.  btw there's lots of players who only do fso or special events.

btw we already have a two country set up.  it's called the ava and it sits empty.  they can change settings to allow for all different things just contact them.  easiest way to test your theory that it would increase fights.


semp

Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Lusche on May 24, 2014, 02:25:09 PM
Again, it used to be one, late-war arena that would promptly close and open two more at the strike of 5PM. The one main had room for 600 sticks and would frequently have 400-500. When it closed at the magic strike and open to two, 100-150 would leave altogether. It took AH forever to figure out it was impacting the game. Maybe years past having this change from one to two worked, but life and business is dynamic.


This was a transitional system between the "two LW arenas all the time, with arena caps" and the current one LW arena setup. It lasted for about half a year.

Single Main Arena - up to tour 80
2 LW arenas with caps (+ addition of EW, MW and later WW1) - tour 80 to tour 130
On/Offpeak LW arena system - tour 130 to tour 137
Single LW arena - since tour 137
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Vraciu on May 24, 2014, 03:48:12 PM
Given the nature of the business I think you can safely assume that Hitech chooses the setup that maintains more subscribers.




I would argue against that.  He may choose the setup he BELIEVES keeps the most subscribers, but since numbers are falling regardless, I don't know how you can determine what causes what.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: kvuo75 on May 24, 2014, 04:20:51 PM

I would argue against that.  He may choose the setup he BELIEVES keeps the most subscribers, but since numbers are falling regardless, I don't know how you can determine what causes what.

I'm pretty sure he has access to more information than us..

Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Lusche on May 24, 2014, 04:25:29 PM
I'm pretty sure he has access to more information than us..



Because he's a subscriber to Lusche's Premium Statistical Bulletin  :old:




 :D
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: FLS on May 24, 2014, 05:09:42 PM

I would argue against that.  He may choose the setup he BELIEVES keeps the most subscribers, but since numbers are falling regardless, I don't know how you can determine what causes what.

Equally inexplicable is the decline in housing and new car sales. Imagine how delusional Hitech would be  without the constant correction he receives here on the BB.   :lol
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: guncrasher on May 24, 2014, 06:10:32 PM

I would argue against that.  He may choose the setup he BELIEVES keeps the most subscribers, but since numbers are falling regardless, I don't know how you can determine what causes what.

I have been here for 8 years and since I got here I am reading about how the number of subscribers is dropping and the game is on the decline.  I just spent another 400 bucks in hardware not needed but I want, to play this game, what the hell am I thinking  :furious.


semp
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Tinkles on May 24, 2014, 07:10:32 PM
HiTech is as fallible as anyone.



Yet all wishes have to be approved by him before they even get considered to be implemented.

No one is perfect, and while I can't say I agree with every little thing that any company does or how people act. I have to admit, that how HTC has run their company, and how they respond to their customers both foam-at-the-mouth and peachy-keen, is very respectable. 

Just because I pay a subscription doesn't mean that I have the right to nag for this or that. What attracted me to the game back in 2007 is why I am here today. Not because of anything new that is added, that is just icing on the cake.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: ROC on May 24, 2014, 07:33:34 PM
Quote
I like the idea of doing a two-country setup in the MA on Tuesday nights for a period of time. Let it go on for 5 hours over 6-weeks and see what happens.

You don't need to re-write the foundation the Main Arena is built on.  Simply do this in the AvA.  Why does everyone want HTC to redesign something that is working for most players when they already have the tools in front of them to set up exactly what they want? 

The AvA is empty while the MAs are stuffed with a few hundred people.  Seems pretty clear to me.  The main arena has a few hundred players while FSO is going on with another few hundred players, and the AvA is still empty.  Take your 2 front war and make it happen. HTC needs to do nothing for this to occur. The AvA group, I am sure, would love to see a reason to keep the staff busy and set this up for you.  As it is, you guys are looking for a 2 front war and the people who can make it happen are flying in the Main Arena because their arena is empty.  And you want HTC to redesign the main arena because some of you think it's a good idea?  Doesn't look so good to me. 

If it's a great idea, then you can make it work in the AvA.  Try it there, if it's wildly successful you now have some facts to show HTC.  Some of you have spent more time in here wishing it were so, and could have simply made it so.

Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: FLS on May 24, 2014, 07:46:15 PM

Why does everyone want HTC to redesign something that is working for most players when they already have the tools in front of them to set up exactly what they want? 


I'm guessing it's because of the MA score. If 2 or more players "can't find a fight" they aren't going outside the MA.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: ROC on May 24, 2014, 08:10:29 PM
Quote
If 2 or more players "can't find a fight" they aren't going outside the MA.
Hmm, you might be right. I keep forgetting about score. Getting old, haven't thought about score in so long, it just doesn't register.  If I'm looking for a fight, it's for the fight.  That's what I thought these guys have been asking for this whole time.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: BaldEagl on May 24, 2014, 08:19:03 PM
All the base takers would congregate in one country and roll the map.  May as well go with a one country set-up.  Then they can log on feeling all warm and fuzzy since they already own the map.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: FLS on May 24, 2014, 08:22:47 PM
Hmm, you might be right. I keep forgetting about score. Getting old, haven't thought about score in so long, it just doesn't register.  If I'm looking for a fight, it's for the fight.  That's what I thought these guys have been asking for this whole time.

It's like the no HO issue "making fights more challenging" except it makes them easier if you know what you're doing. But I digress.  :lol
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: shoresroad on May 24, 2014, 08:33:30 PM
Equally inexplicable is the decline in housing and new car sales. Imagine how delusional Hitech would be  without the constant correction he receives here on the BB.   :lol

 :lol
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: USRanger on May 24, 2014, 08:40:56 PM
You don't need to re-write the foundation the Main Arena is built on.  Simply do this in the AvA.  Why does everyone want HTC to redesign something that is working for most players when they already have the tools in front of them to set up exactly what they want? 

The AvA is empty while the MAs are stuffed with a few hundred people.  Seems pretty clear to me.  The main arena has a few hundred players while FSO is going on with another few hundred players, and the AvA is still empty.  Take your 2 front war and make it happen. HTC needs to do nothing for this to occur. The AvA group, I am sure, would love to see a reason to keep the staff busy and set this up for you.  As it is, you guys are looking for a 2 front war and the people who can make it happen are flying in the Main Arena because their arena is empty.  And you want HTC to redesign the main arena because some of you think it's a good idea?  Doesn't look so good to me. 

If it's a great idea, then you can make it work in the AvA.  Try it there, if it's wildly successful you now have some facts to show HTC.  Some of you have spent more time in here wishing it were so, and could have simply made it so.



Thank you ROC.  Sadly most won't listen.  They don't even realize they are missing out on half the terrains on the server.  Tuesday & Thursday nights we are getting around 20 players, so I invite all of you, yet again, to at least come in and check it out on one of those nights. :salute
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Randy1 on May 24, 2014, 10:10:39 PM
The more I think about two countries, the more I see the flaw.  With two countries, inevitably, one side would become dominate and stay that way.  With three countries, the chance of that is more remote.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Shifty on May 24, 2014, 10:30:54 PM
The more I think about two countries, the more I see the flaw. 

Everybody should have seen the flaw by page 3 when this was posted..


It is not going to happen.

Hitech


Why anybody thinks they need to ponder the subject another three pages
is the real mystery.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Vraciu on May 24, 2014, 10:38:34 PM
Equally inexplicable is the decline in housing and new car sales. Imagine how delusional Hitech would be  without the constant correction he receives here on the BB.   :lol


This ain't cars and houses, bruh.


This is a market segment in decline.   Other games in this genre have slogged this death march already.  It remains to be seen if AH will go the same route.   I am hoping not.  We shall see.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Vraciu on May 24, 2014, 10:40:34 PM
The more I think about two countries, the more I see the flaw.  With two countries, inevitably, one side would become dominate and stay that way.  With three countries, the chance of that is more remote.


Not true.  The only way that might happen is if switching sides is too hard.  In WBs people switched sides for balance regularly.  The movement of the battle lines was dynamic and exciting.   It went back and forth. 
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: FLS on May 24, 2014, 10:51:01 PM

This ain't cars and houses, bruh.


Thanks for the heads up. You cut straight to the point. I don't know what I was thinking.  :D

I should have remembered you made a similar point earlier. Where you pointed out that landing an aircraft is nothing like choosing between 2 and 3 sides in the MA.
Let me try to find it.

Because things have obviously changed.

"I already tried landing off the ILS and couldn't see the approach lights at minimums.   Why must I try again?"    Because the RVR has gone up.   You can get in now.   American and Delta just made it and they said they had the runway at 500 feet.   (Or you can head to your alternate if you so choose.  Whichever is safer.)

Oops, sucks to be old, I remembered that wrong.

Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: ROC on May 24, 2014, 11:39:38 PM
Quote
In WBs people switched sides for balance regularly.
 

Odd.  Reading the posts on WBs right now.  I don't think you really meant to bring this up ;)  It won't help your argument at all.  Their big concern?  The horde steam rolling the bases, unacceptable odds, 5 hours of fighting for the under dog and this has gone on for 6 months.  It's so bad, that one side even had enough players on that they could send 2 to 3 bombers onto the other sides field and level them.  7 to 2 at around 10pm eastern. 
Like I said earlier, you should make it happen instead of trying to convince everyone in here it should happen.  I think it's possible that HTC has enough sense to not model this game after one that in prime time has the audience of a Wednesday night snapshot.

This isn't a dig at you Vraciu, it's clarification.  You have at your fingertips a game that will support you with tools we have in place to create the game you want.  Quit waiting for HTC to do something that doesn't need done.  Use the AvA and make it happen.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Vraciu on May 25, 2014, 02:33:46 AM
 

Odd.  Reading the posts on WBs right now.  I don't think you really meant to bring this up ;)  It won't help your argument at all.  Their big concern?  The horde steam rolling the bases, unacceptable odds, 5 hours of fighting for the under dog and this has gone on for 6 months.  It's so bad, that one side even had enough players on that they could send 2 to 3 bombers onto the other sides field and level them.  7 to 2 at around 10pm eastern.  
Like I said earlier, you should make it happen instead of trying to convince everyone in here it should happen.  I think it's possible that HTC has enough sense to not model this game after one that in prime time has the audience of a Wednesday night snapshot.

This isn't a dig at you Vraciu, it's clarification.  You have at your fingertips a game that will support you with tools we have in place to create the game you want.  Quit waiting for HTC to do something that doesn't need done.  Use the AvA and make it happen.

A horde in WBs these days is five players--essentially the entire country.   Behold the future if past is prologue.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: FLS on May 25, 2014, 03:47:58 AM
A horde in WBs these days is five players--essentially the entire country.   Behold the future if past is prologue.

This ain't WB, bruh.   :aok
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: lunatic1 on May 25, 2014, 07:29:42 AM

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Re: Two countries vs Three 

« Reply #54 on: May 23, 2014, 12:55:53 PM »
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Quote from: Wiley on May 23, 2014, 12:30:43 PM

I've come to the realization that what I actually want by supporting this wish is for there to be more of a chance of opposing action for me to work against.  Number of countries doesn't matter, I just want to be able to get in on whatever action is available rather than watching a red bardar on the other front from across the map.

Wiley.


I am with you on this one.   Chasing Dar Bars is boring.

Shrink the map in relation to player numbers and leave it three sided then.     I am guessing three sides dampens the volatility of the battles.   Only reasoning I can think of.  But the maps are way too big.

 
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 12:57:33 PM by Vraciu »  Report to moderator    Logged 


A worthy cause for a childhood hero of mine....   http://www.AlexVraciu.net.
 
 
 
 

lunatic1 
 
 
you can never satisfy everybody--big map people whine that the map is too big--smaller map--people whine it's too small
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: lunatic1 on May 25, 2014, 07:36:24 AM
I tell you what  randy1--go to the ava and set up a 2 country ma type map do it for-lets say 2 nights advertise it--let people know what you are doing...and see how it turns out.......I won't be there....I already have fun in the ma.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Randy1 on May 25, 2014, 07:49:51 AM
I tell you what  randy1--go to the ava and set up a 2 country ma type map do it for-lets say 2 nights advertise it--let people know what you are doing...and see how it turns out.......I won't be there....I already have fun in the ma.

Keep in mind my Original Post did not advocate a two country system nor do I now.  I was trying to understand the bases for the current three country system.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: BaldEagl on May 25, 2014, 09:31:55 AM
Keep in mind my Original Post did not advocate a two country system nor do I now.  I was trying to understand the basis for the current three country system.

Fixed
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Vraciu on May 25, 2014, 10:41:04 AM
This ain't WB, bruh.   :aok


Pretty much is.  WB circa 2008.   You can see where they are.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Vraciu on May 25, 2014, 10:44:01 AM

 
you can never satisfy everybody--big map people whine that the map is too big--smaller map--people whine it's too small


Which is why dynamic map scaling would please everyone.   There is no need for 250 bases when you have 25-50 players total.   Or even with 200 players.  Too big.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: kvuo75 on May 25, 2014, 01:29:35 PM
All the base takers would congregate in one country and roll the map.  May as well go with a one country set-up.  Then they can log on feeling all warm and fuzzy since they already own the map.


 :aok

I have advocated the one country setup myself before!

just log in and let it kick you back to desktop "your side has won the war"

Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: FLS on May 25, 2014, 02:19:28 PM

Pretty much is.  WB circa 2008.   You can see where they are.

False comparison. You can compare WB today with AH today or WB in 2008 to AH in 2008. Your choice.

The critical difference will always be that Hitech wrote WB in 1995 then he quit to make a better flight sim.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Rich46yo on May 25, 2014, 02:33:10 PM
The more I think about two countries, the more I see the flaw.  With two countries, inevitably, one side would become dominate and stay that way.  With three countries, the chance of that is more remote.

Well said.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Vraciu on May 25, 2014, 02:53:23 PM
See rule #4
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: FLS on May 25, 2014, 03:24:28 PM
See rule #4



Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Vraciu on May 25, 2014, 06:07:58 PM
See rule 4
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Vraciu on May 25, 2014, 06:09:10 PM
False comparison. You can compare WB today with AH today or WB in 2008 to AH in 2008. Your choice.

The critical difference will always be that Hitech wrote WB in 1995 then he quit to make a better flight sim.

Same game, essentially, with minor tweaks. Same timeline...so far.   I am hoping it lives another fifty years.   It is the last of its kind.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: lunatic1 on May 25, 2014, 06:50:36 PM
Keep in mind my Original Post did not advocate a two country system nor do I now.  I was trying to understand the bases for the current three country system.

Sorry
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: lunatic1 on May 25, 2014, 07:00:09 PM

Which is why dynamic map scaling would please everyone.   There is no need for 250 bases when you have 25-50 players total.   Or even with 200 players.  Too big.

Only ti.e ive ever seen 25 to 50 players on is the early am--- thats not hitechs fought.

And why r we still dissuing this, hitech already said no--
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Vraciu on May 25, 2014, 07:05:39 PM
Only ti.e ive ever seen 25 to 50 players on is the early am--- thats not hitechs fought.

And why r we still dissuing this, hitech already said no--

Who is at fault then?   Are those players less important than the prime time horde?   As it stands an entire continent is basically being written off.  People are getting frustrated and logging off.  There should be a way to accommodate them.

I dare say most players have no idea what the other 21 hours of the day they DON'T play are like...
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Tinkles on May 25, 2014, 07:43:16 PM
Who is at fault then?   Are those players less important than the prime time horde?   As it stands an entire continent is basically being written off.  People are getting frustrated and logging off.  There should be a way to accommodate them.

I dare say most players have no idea what the other 21 hours of they day they DON'T play are like...



While that might be the case, 2 sides isn't the way to do it.

When I think of games that have two sides, I think of Call of Duty. For those who don't know, it's typically matches of 12 v 12 .  Sometimes you would have players switch to make a slightly lobsided match like 9 v 15 .  However, quite often, it was 18 v 6 or better, and the players did it for various reasons. Being a jerk, score (win/loss ratio  :rolleyes: ), etc.   

I personally think a good solution would be to limit what bases players could take off from, and make it so they could only take off from bases more on the front lines or closer to each other. Making the bigger maps 'smaller', by limited the bases you could take off from, would make finding fights at late hours (or off peak times) easier. 

Edit:  Interesting, while looking for an old post of mine with screenshots of the idea. I found this.

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,300387.0.html

While this was discontinued if I am not mistaken. I think it has merit here for this topic. (Note: not my intention to hi-jack but to me it relates to the topic and is a possible solution.)

Instead of 3 areas, like in the link, why not have 1 'off peak' arena, and one 'prime time' arena, that run on a similar clock to the link above. The 'off peak' arena would have small maps only, or small/medium maps. And the other would be what the rotation is now.     

While I can see some cons to it, I won't bother writing an article on it, but I'll let you guys munch on it now that I thrown some potential new meat.. but what do I know, it could be just air *shrug*  .

 :salute
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: FLS on May 25, 2014, 08:31:57 PM
Same game, essentially, with minor tweaks.

You must have some notion of property rights even if you can't tell the difference simply by playing.
Title: Re: Two countries vs Three
Post by: Vraciu on May 25, 2014, 08:49:07 PM
You must have some notion of property rights even if you can't tell the difference simply by playing.

And Copyrights.   Doesn't matter.   Frankly I am surprised IEN and HTC didn't sue each other out of business. Probably agreed to disagree and do their own thing.   (I don't blame Hitech for leaving, fwiw.)