Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Triton28 on June 17, 2014, 09:25:47 AM
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I've been playing some other games recently, and was chatting on Teamspeak with another guy and the conversation shifted to WWII history, and specifically WWII aviation. He mentioned that he flew War Thunder a bit and liked it, so I say to myself, "Self, tell this dude about Aces High". So I did.
He downloads it, and we play for a bit. I set about explaining everything to him and it hits me... there ain't no way I can get this guy up to speed and hooked in two weeks. It's one thing if he can play every day for 6 hours for two weeks... and we can be on at the same time, but with jobs, families, and other games and hobby interests. No way.
How much longer is up for debate, but two weeks don't cut it.
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We pay for a monthly subscription. I think new guys should at least get 1 month free. 2 weeks is not enough time to figure out:
-How to work the text and vox
-The important dot command
-How to takeoff from fields and carriers
-How to control your plane in flight
-How to fight (this one takes several months or even years to figure out)
-How to land on a field or carrier
-How gvs work
-How to join and make missions
-How to bomb (dive bombing and level bombing)
and a whole host of other things as well
2 weeks is just barely enough time to understand how the text buffer and vox works and maybe how to get your plane airborne. 2 weeks is just enough time to realize this is one tough game with a steep learning curve and not enough time to figure out if it's worth a monthly subscription.
+1 on upping the free trial! :aok
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+1 agreed with what has already been stated and one month would be awesome or even say hours i.e your allowed 20 hours in the training areana after which you unlock the Da , with training areana still usable after 20 more hours you unlock the ma with an additional 20 hours. Total log in time is now 60 hours and should at that point be a good indication if you wish to subscribe.
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+1
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+1 to elongating the trial period to match a subscription period.
i can definitely say that my dad, who's just joined the game, is having a hell of a time with the text and vox commands. When i try to teach him via phone, he just replies with "i don't care, i want to get a kill, just let me get in the air"....
Which i've learned (like many of you i'm sure) doesn't work too well in the long run. He'll find the red dots by a base and up. This usually only helps someone pad their score... :ahand
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+1
I miss bullspit! :cry
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+1
I miss bullspit! :cry
I dont think you were around when spitbull flew...... that was in 02/03!
I agree 2 weeks arent long enough,personally I like the hours time base just like real pilots need certain amount of hours for a rating would add to emmersion if only alittle.
If my math is correct 2 weeks equals 288 hours,which would be excessive IMHO but 100 hours seems reasonable,maybe even as few as 75 hours. I also like the idea of after x hours in TA you open a new arena,etc. the only issue I see is the lack of players available to help the new guys in the TA getting started.
:salute
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I dont think you were around when spitbull flew...... that was in 02/03!
:salute
Bullspit was a user I met in August '13. He was my first friend on the game :(
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+1 :aok
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+1
A real good wish.
Make it a summer special.
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Bullspit was a user I met in August '13. He was my first friend on the game :(
I was kidding..... notice I changed the name to spitbull. That was an old handle of mine in years gone by!
:salute
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+1 I agree 100%
Two weeks isn't enough, not only to learn the game but also to become proficient enough to get kills for the simulation novices. Without the taste of the first kill in their maw, those new players will never stay.
Heck, I'd even give War Thunder refugees even more time as an introduction to help lure them over. Let War Thunder get them interested in the WWII genre, but have Aces High reap the profit.
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Heck, I'd even give War Thunder refugees even more time as an introduction to help lure them over. Let War Thunder get them interested in the WWII genre, but have Aces High reap the profit.
Good idea but likely won't work. Most of the War Thunder population plays Arcade mode....which have always struck me as being members of the "instant gratification Xbox" population. That said, there are those who are looking for a deeper experience so it can't hurt trying.
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If 2-week trial accounts were not so simple to use as a shade and revolving door free account. A 2-3-4-week arena only accessible to trial accounts and trainers would be feasible. A small map mirroring the MA with constant AI running around along with trial accounters being able to shoot each other down. As soon as you submit your credit card you are locked out of it. By then the trainers the trial accounters meet in that arena would have made sure they know to visit the TA. Or HTC would have signs and instructional videos everywhere spelling out what's waiting for them in the subscriber arenas.
The downside would probably be like the old H2H arenas after some genius figured out how to spoof creating new trial accounts. Then it would be a free to play AH arena with AI and noobs to grief by free loaders along with MA vets who found out about the trial account spoof.
A longer free trial is one solution, except you are loosing money being charitable. Another solution would be a one time incentive offer of say 2 months for $25.00 after the 2-week trial is up instead of $14.95 per month. Knowing how tough this game is on new players. I suspect the game has early frustration drop out periods for a percentage of new subscribers in the first few months. A package deal could have a salutary incentive to finish the low rate period getting some of the early drop outs over the hump.
Free is not going to support this game. The front of the WEB page is not plastered with advertisements to make up the difference. Free for many these days means free loading and entitlements for as long as they can take free stuff from the source offering it.
Consider with a longer free trial period. How many more burnt out and disgruntled players would drop their accounts and then open a trial account between taking vacations from the game. One month free with a few weeks to months off. Then back to playing AH for free for a month or so. Two weeks seems to have another purpose from a profit motive.
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A better way to look at this would be...........
Since numbers continue to dwindle since the days of 600 players online, HTC should do something to get a subtle increase.
After all, public or private, it's all about Recurring Revenue.
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A better way to look at this would be...........
Since numbers continue to dwindle since the days of 600 players online, HTC should do something to get a subtle increase.
After all, public or private, it's all about Recurring Revenue.
we get 600 players on fso and ma almost every friday.
semp
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we get 600 players on fso and ma almost every friday.
semp
Never seen it...
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Never seen it...
I have never seen you either.
semp
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I have never seen you either.
semp
He's around quite a lot, no worries try these
(http://www.coolframes.com/get_image.php?fid=8861&color=1AB1O1&alt=)
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Poison is on every time I'm on. I don't think he ever logs off. :uhoh
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Most MMO subscription based games offer a free 30 day "trial" before billing kicks in.
ack-ack
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Poison is on every time I'm on. I don't think he ever logs off. :uhoh
He logs to go on the forums lol
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Too much info to absorb in just two weeks. +1 to this wish.
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Poison is on every time I'm on. I don't think he ever logs off. :uhoh
I am not saying he isnt, just I dont see him. just like he claims he's never seen 600 players on fridays split between fso and MA. just because he hasnt seen it, it doesnt mean it's never happened.
semp
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+1
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Bustr, I'm not sure how lengthening the trial period by a couple weeks would lead to rampant abuse. I thought HTC had ways to curb that anyway.. :headscratch:
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Bustr, I'm not sure how lengthening the trial period by a couple weeks would lead to rampant abuse. I thought HTC had ways to curb that anyway.. :headscratch:
it's not really what we think is it? he's got the data and it's his call. so really we can call our +1 or -1 and it's all meaningless. the only thing that matters is hitech's +1. and if he thought it was a +1 it would have been done already.
semp
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it's not really what we think is it? he's got the data and it's his call. so really we can call our +1 or -1 and it's all meaningless. the only thing that matters is hitech's +1. and if he thought it was a +1 it would have been done already.
semp
That was very... no, incredibly insightful. Thank you.
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+1
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That was very... no, incredibly insightful. Thank you.
so when will this wish be implemented since you happen to know so much.
semp
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Don't semp my thread bro
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You missed Hitech's wish that we would know the differences between our good wishes and our bad wishes.
Barring that, we seem to only wish for ourselves or without showing we are willing to look at both sides of the wish. Which implies you believe it's Hitech's job to do that. Rather than you as the wisher to be as honest about the initial good as well as listing unintended consequences. After all, wishes are like mini business proposals since you want Hitech to change his business based solely on your word alone.
In some respects the wishlist could be separated into three sub categories.
1. - Asking for aircraft, vehicle's and toys only has the downside of fitting the inclusion requirements and if Hitech wants it in his game.
2. - Asking for modifications to rides and toys.
3. - Asking for new game functions or changes to existing functions is asking for coding changes to the game, which fit into a business proposal change. Asking for a longer free trial period fits into a business proposal change.
And business proposals in any for profit company require impact and exposure statements, since you are talking about management investing funds in your idea.
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You missed Hitech's wish that we would know the differences between our good wishes and our bad wishes.
No I didn't. This is a good wish. If I didn't think so, I wouldn't have wished for it.
Barring that, we seem to only wish for ourselves or without showing we are willing to look at both sides of the wish. Which implies you believe it's Hitech's job to do that. Rather than you as the wisher to be as honest about the initial good as well as listing unintended consequences. After all, wishes are like mini business proposals since you want Hitech to change his business based solely on your word alone.
Just tell me, in as few words as you can - How will the extension of the free trial result in rampant abuse?
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I've been playing some other games recently, and was chatting on Teamspeak with another guy and the conversation shifted to WWII history, and specifically WWII aviation. He mentioned that he flew War Thunder a bit and liked it, so I say to myself, "Self, tell this dude about Aces High". So I did.
He downloads it, and we play for a bit. I set about explaining everything to him and it hits me... there ain't no way I can get this guy up to speed and hooked in two weeks. It's one thing if he can play every day for 6 hours for two weeks... and we can be on at the same time, but with jobs, families, and other games and hobby interests. No way.
How much longer is up for debate, but two weeks don't cut it.
+1 I like this idea. This game has quite a steep learning curve. 2 weeks just isn't enough time for a new player to even get familiar with the basics of the game.
Coogan
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No I didn't. This is a good wish. If I didn't think so, I wouldn't have wished for it.
Just tell me, in as few words as you can - How will the extension of the free trial result in rampant abuse?
Simple Answer : people would abuse it.
Explanation.. of his explanation (his post before the one you replied to), if I wanted, I could make a trial account, fly for a month, make a new one and do it again. Unless HTC has some way of preventing that, then it would be abused. Someone returning like ManAWar or Midway :uhoh , it's about the only con in-game that I can think of. The only other con would be finances, HTC is sticking their neck out further, offering a longer trial, but no guarentee that the player will stay just because they extended the trial.. however, there isn't a guarentee they are going to subscribe if it's just at 2 weeks either.
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Simple Answer : people would abuse it.
Explanation.. of his explanation (his post before the one you replied to), if I wanted, I could make a trial account, fly for a month, make a new one and do it again.
This is so for a two-week intro, as well as a 24-hour intro.
As some have mentioned, interested persons fifteen or twenty years ago had already been playing Flight Simulator, Chuck Yeager, Battlehawks 1942 and SWOTL...the AW manual was explicit that the game designers assumed you knew how to take off, land and generally navigate a computer plane. I don't believe that assumption holds with the current generation of interested virtual pilots. So I think the OP is correct, and it would be nice to have a longer grace period for newbs.
- oldman
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I am assuming HTC can track IP addresses and if a player continually reups a new account, they'll be able to find out.
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Simple Answer : people would abuse it.
Explanation.. of his explanation (his post before the one you replied to), if I wanted, I could make a trial account, fly for a month, make a new one and do it again. Unless HTC has some way of preventing that, then it would be abused. Someone returning like ManAWar or Midway :uhoh , it's about the only con in-game that I can think of. The only other con would be finances, HTC is sticking their neck out further, offering a longer trial, but no guarentee that the player will stay just because they extended the trial.. however, there isn't a guarentee they are going to subscribe if it's just at 2 weeks either.
If this were true 2 weekers would abuse it as well.
Giving a new player a couple extra weeks doesn't cost HTC any money as all the systems are there and they are paying for it all ready. If they had to add more servers to accommodate longer free time then I could see your "cost" issue, but they don't need to as it has been said by HTC that the servers aren't at 10% capacity.
When Fighter Ace was closing I think HTC extended the free time to 30 days. So it can be done.
Personally I think they need two things. A training program That shows up first time you open the game. Nothing to long, but a short video explaining the training arena, how off line practice and missions DON'T count toward your free trail time and to encourage new players to get familiar with the game BEFORE logging in, along with a couple print outs.... dot commands, keyboard commands, and links for "More info" like the new videos Skuzzy is adding the trainers site ,BBS, and so on. Force feed the availability for HELP to these people.
Second, an extra couple weeks on the free ride. A way for them to fly in the training arena with out it counting toward their trial time would be good to. Keep the no damage, but at least this way they could get training without feeling like they are "wasting" their "free" time in training. They could get some time working on flying against people instead of drones, a bit more realistic taste of game play. Maybe a 30 free trail for the training area that is separate from the 30 day game trial.
They need to give these new players a chance to survive and learn long enough to get hooked.
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It might not be a small effort, but how about something like this:
40 in-game hours for free, even if it takes a player a month to use them. Time spent in the Training Arena does not count against these hours. This way, new players can spend as much time as they need to practice and get help, and still have plenty of time available for "the real thing".
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It might not be a small effort, but how about something like this:
40 in-game hours for free, even if it takes a player a month to use them. Time spent in the Training Arena does not count against these hours. This way, new players can spend as much time as they need to practice and get help, and still have plenty of time available for "the real thing".
I like this idea.
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It might not be a small effort, but how about something like this:
40 in-game hours for free, even if it takes a player a month to use them. Time spent in the Training Arena does not count against these hours. This way, new players can spend as much time as they need to practice and get help, and still have plenty of time available for "the real thing".
Works for me.
To those who responded to me : Oldman, Triton, Fugitive
That's fine, was just saying a worst-case-scenario. Since that apparently wouldn't be an issue, then I fully support it. I really like the idea of hours rather than days, because if you only fly for 1 hour, that counts as a day for the trial.
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As HTC posts more "How To" videos at their YouTube page, much of this will be moot for the getting started and game mechanics problems. If all of the future videos are as professional and to the point as the initial ones there now, new players will get through the game play and game mechanics issues quickly. The thing that keeps you coming back, is how you were treated by the community as your first impression. That ancient bit of wisdom most mothers tell their children. "First impressions count."
The OP identified the real magic in retaining a new player. Ourselves and our involvement in helping others to like our game as we do. HTC is already doing their part in the face of a new generation of potential customers not growing up with flight sims. Getting their introduction instructions and How To answers for games from videos.
So the OP has finally had that transformative realization about new player first impressions. Very similar to young adults when they start paying taxes and mortgages. And discover themselves thinking and talking just like their stogy boring parents did to them about life. Then the first thing out of their mouth, government(HTC) has got to do something about this horrible tragedy. Supported with a laundry list of why individuals "Can't" accomplish it.
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:aok
I also like ImADot's add to the point.
Great idea!
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Blustr, you really should just answer how there's going to be rampant abuse with lengthening the trial rather than typing just to hear the click of the keys. There is no metaphor between HTC and government. I haven't had a transformative experience. I've long thought this game should have a longer free trial. The only reason I brought it up was because it was fresh on my mind.
<3
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Blustr, you really should just answer how there's going to be rampant abuse with lengthening the trial rather than typing just to hear the click of the keys. There is no metaphor between HTC and government. I haven't had a transformative experience. I've long thought this game should have a longer free trial. The only reason I brought it up was because it was fresh on my mind.
<3
wont bustr telling you exactly how it can be abused will basically get him banned?
but you are still missing one basic point. bringing bustr onboard to your idea doesnt mean crap. the person you have to convince is hitech.
but in reality 2 or 4 weeks is not enough to get somebody to "learn" the game. heck I was here for a year before I found out there was a bb and for that long I thought the training room was for squads to train together.
what would really help the new player is an easy to access list of basic things. something like
-a tutorial on how to set up your stick.
-which way is the training arena and what it is for
-set up a time with a trainer while online. just something like and ingame message board "i'll be here tomorrow at 3pm will anybody be available". and hopefully an answer back in an email saying we dont have any at that time but 4pm is good.
-some really basic stuff like that that we take for granted but makes a big difference to a new guy.
semp
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+1
Anything to get the numbers up.
More may actually get bit by AH, i.e. get the fever and stay.
Takes more time in this game to become proficient enough to have fun.
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The free trial is a good idea but the way it is implemented is backward in my opinion. I've always thought that they should raise the cost of the free trial. If the free trial cost more than the subscription it would encourage more to subscribe because they would be saving.
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The free trial is a good idea but the way it is implemented is backward in my opinion. I've always thought that they should raise the cost of the free trial. If the free trial cost more than the subscription it would encourage more to subscribe because they would be saving.
Then the trial wouldn't be free.
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He downloads it, and we play for a bit. I set about explaining everything to him and it hits me... there ain't no way I can get this guy up to speed and hooked in two weeks.
Not true. I got my brother hooked within a couple of hours.
Of course, it took much longer for him to get proficient. But he was hooked pretty quick.
We do, of course, need more people who will take newbies in hand and show them the ropes..... :old:
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Not true. I got my brother hooked within a couple of hours.
Of course, it took much longer for him to get proficient. But he was hooked pretty quick.
We do, of course, need more people who will take newbies in hand and show them the ropes..... :old:
I got my brother hooked in 2 minutes, but that doesn't count because he was a sim guy to start with.
I'm not interested in hooking people who would be hooked anyway. I'm interested in bringing in people who aren't so easily sold.
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or open up WW1/ TA / DA for an entire month free, half the sub cost for access to just those arenas after trial period and keep MA full cost.
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If you are determined to go the month route coupled with free arenas and no access to the MA.
Have a free WW1 arena, and an MA arena with rotating plane sets limited to 4 different planes, and two or three different tanks each day. Just enough to get them in rides but, not enough to setup house and become free loaders in favorite rides. Have all those planes flying as AI each day on easy to medium mode with a different avatar than the players but, still red and green.
The downsides are obvious. Vets sneaking in to abuse the system and free trialers. Griefers trying to find a way to turn it into a permanent free game. And then the logistical nightmare of how to get the game pad generation up to speed with a joystick. Simply to enjoy the offering in the limited time they will give their attention span to the trial if they can't just up and go piu, piu, piu.
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Simple Answer : people would abuse it.
Explanation.. of his explanation (his post before the one you replied to), if I wanted, I could make a trial account, fly for a month, make a new one and do it again. Unless HTC has some way of preventing that, then it would be abused. Someone returning like ManAWar or Midway :uhoh , it's about the only con in-game that I can think of. The only other con would be finances, HTC is sticking their neck out further, offering a longer trial, but no guarentee that the player will stay just because they extended the trial.. however, there isn't a guarentee they are going to subscribe if it's just at 2 weeks either.
How is HTC sticking their neck out, it costs them nothing for another player, who was not paying them anyway to subscribe, drawn by the longer trial.
If they decide to stay after the trial then HTC gets the revenue from their subscription. If they leave, they have cost the company nothing, as they were never paying anything in the first place :old:
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How is HTC sticking their neck out, it costs them nothing for another player, who was not paying them anyway to subscribe, drawn by the longer trial.
If they decide to stay after the trial then HTC gets the revenue from their subscription. If they leave, they have cost the company nothing, as they were never paying anything in the first place :old:
You don't count servers for more people as a cost? IIRC one of the reasons for two main arenas awhile back was that one large arena was much more expensive than two smaller ones, the current size of LW being a compromise between prime time numbers and playability at more silent times. There's also administrative costs, someone has to keep record of players, their accounts and other similar things. The freebies will also join this forum causing possible need for moderating their posts. Rosie and Skuzzy don't work for free and I believe they wouldn't like to do extra hours either.
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You don't count servers for more people as a cost? IIRC one of the reasons for two main arenas awhile back was that one large arena was much more expensive than two smaller ones, the current size of LW being a compromise between prime time numbers and playability at more silent times. There's also administrative costs, someone has to keep record of players, their accounts and other similar things. The freebies will also join this forum causing possible need for moderating their posts. Rosie and Skuzzy don't work for free and I believe they wouldn't like to do extra hours either.
But all the administration they would have to do is being done anyway, every day with every player. You could possible put a $ value on the cost of an individual player, but in the big (and rapidly reducing) scheme of things I doubt it would add up to very much more than a couple of cents.
I also doubt that a few more guys posting on the forums and having to be moderated would result in countless hours of workload for HTC. At the very least it may prove they are sufficiently interested to stay and eventually end up paying a sub, a payment that of course would hitherto have been lining the sky rockets of WT and the like.
The simple fact is that AH is extremely difficult to learn. This, I believe, is predominantly due to the fact that there is no form of aptitude test to complete before leaping into the MA, and then :headscratch: as to why you get incessantly murdered, at least when you aren't lawndarting.
It takes much longer than 2 weeks to get someone up to being able to take off and land, never mind engage in complicated acm.
If the trial period is to remain at the 2 week mark, then there has to be a system whereby new and untried players are taught the very basics of control, in aircraft, gv's and boats.
The number of times, and recently I might add, where i have seen "how do I take off" pop up on the help channel, answered almost immediately by the ubiquitous "Alt F4". Hardly endearing to a guy contemplating spending $180 annually, plus the cost of stick, throttle, rudder pedals, upgraded PC and so on :old:
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I understand your logic about that the administration has to be done anyway. However the current personnel is optimized for the current clientèle. I bet they work full hours, HTC certainly won't pay for just sitting there. Thus a larger amount of non-paying customers would mean they would have to hire more people without getting any extra income to cover their salaries and working facilities.
Besides, AH isn't hard to learn. But I agree, it's very hard to master! Starting directly on MA is a suicide, but if you're a native English speaker the TA will get you flying within an hour. Reading the manual would also help with those "how do I take off" questions. If someone can find the download, he should be able to find the help section, too!
OTOH I've never even heard about a game that a newbie could immediately master and that covers everything starting from children's card games to board games to computer games.
BTW after umpteen years I still can't do any real maneuvers and my SA sucks.
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+1 but the 2 week did work for us apparently :joystick: :old:
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I understand your logic about that the administration has to be done anyway. However the current personnel is optimized for the current clientèle. I bet they work full hours, HTC certainly won't pay for just sitting there. Thus a larger amount of non-paying customers would mean they would have to hire more people without getting any extra income to cover their salaries and working facilities.
Besides, AH isn't hard to learn. But I agree, it's very hard to master! Starting directly on MA is a suicide, but if you're a native English speaker the TA will get you flying within an hour. Reading the manual would also help with those "how do I take off" questions. If someone can find the download, he should be able to find the help section, too!
OTOH I've never even heard about a game that a newbie could immediately master and that covers everything starting from children's card games to board games to computer games.
BTW after umpteen years I still can't do any real maneuvers and my SA sucks.
:rofl Me too :old:
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You don't count servers for more people as a cost? IIRC one of the reasons for two main arenas awhile back was that one large arena was much more expensive than two smaller ones, the current size of LW being a compromise between prime time numbers and playability at more silent times. There's also administrative costs, someone has to keep record of players, their accounts and other similar things. The freebies will also join this forum causing possible need for moderating their posts. Rosie and Skuzzy don't work for free and I believe they wouldn't like to do extra hours either.
you recall incorrectly ;)
the 1-2 arena setups have NOTHING to do with costs....
and everything to do with after a certain amount of people...it becomes a cesspool....(cesspool is my word...I don't remember the word HTC used)
thats why 2 arena's were made...and once numbers dropped they went back to 1 arena.
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Thanks for correcting. My memory isn't what it used to be and my understanding has always been, uhm, selective... :salute
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Thanks for correcting. My memory isn't what it used to be and my understanding has always been, uhm, selective... :salute
:rofl
I hear that :salute