Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: earl1937 on June 18, 2014, 02:37:09 PM
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:airplane: s should be OK for now, still 1 and 1/2 hours of daylight left, almost on top at 10,000.
By Juno intersection now, climb to 20,000, should be good ride from here on.
Always enjoy watching the Sun set after frontal passage, air is clean and clear up here and you can see forever, a lot of dark looking stuff ahead about my 10:00 O'clock, better get the AVQ55 radar going and the storm king, see if there is anything to worry with.
5904 Poppa Mike, Washington Center, be advised, Delta and United flights ahead of you reporting CAT, (editors note, CAT is "clear air turbulence"), in the area around Montebello, do you need divation around that route?
04 Poppa Mike, sure would, have had enough bumps today!
Roger, Poppa Mike, fly heading 260 degrees, will turn you back to J22 in about 20 minutes.
Roger Washington center, thank you very much.
Darn, what else is going to happen today, right engine EGT(editors note, EGT is "Exhaust Gas Temperature), running about 15 degrees centigrade higher than the left engine, wonder what that's all about, have to report it to Danny, ( our mechanic), getting a light chop now, must be coming into the area of CAT, hope it doesn't get any worse, maybe I better slow up a little until we get by Montebello. Man, look at that DME, 324 knots ground speed, must be getting a lot of tail wind now out of the North, as advertised by the people in weather at this altitude. That's a 64 knot tail wind, hope it holds till we start down south of Chattanooga.
5604 Poppa Mike, contact Atlanta Center 133.55, good day sir, I have explained to him what you are doing.
Roger sir, thank you very much for your help!
Atlanta center, King Air 5604 Poppa Mike with you, squawking 7115.
Roger Poppa Mike, turn left, fly 180 degrees to re-intercept J22, I need you to descend to flight level 180 for about 10 minutes sir!
Roger, Poppa Mike descending to flight level 180, turning to heading 180 degrees, just go ahead and leave us at that altitude all the way to Choo Choo, where I plan on starting my descent into PDK.
OK, Poppa Mike, new altitude OK to Choo Choo, how's the ride where you are right now?
Poppa Mike is doing fine, just a very light chop, nothing to speak of.
Atlanta Center, 04 Poppa Mike by Choo Choo, intercepting J89, requesting 10,000 to Wudee, then direct PDK.
Roger Poppa Mike, cleared as requested, report by Wudee intersection at 10,000
Poppa Mike, roger, cleared to descend to 10,000, report by Wudee. Anything new on the weather around Atlanta?
PDK still reporting IFR, but improving, 800 overcast with 2 miles in light rain showers, thunder to the North and West.
Poppa Mike, thank you sir. Crap, might have know, this front hasn't passed by Atlanta enough to stay out of the crap, going to have to shoot the approach. 55 is showing a pretty good coverage about 11:00 O'clock to me, must be the thunder they are reporting. Need to check approach plate and get ready to earn my dough!
Atlanta Center, 04 Poppa Mike by Wudee!
Roger Poppa Mike, contact Atlanta approach 126.55, expect lower in 10 miles.
Roger Atlanta
Atlanta approach, 5604 Poppa Mike with you now by Wudee.
Roger Poppa Mike, descend to 7,000, radar vectors for ILS approach, runway 02.
Roger, approach, ILS 02, I'm getting a pretty good chop now, request deviation to Dobbins, then to PDK, looks like we have a small echo just East of me at 11:00 O'clock.
Roger sir, turn right to 180 degrees, expect lower in 5 minutes.
I can see some ground lights here at 7,000, but don't let that lull you into thinking you are not going to have to shoot a tough approach!
04 Poppa Mike, turn left heading 090 degrees, will bring you in on about a more shallow angle as you get closer, descent to 3,000.
04 Poppa Mike, out of 7,000 for 3, fly heading 090 degrees.
04 Poppa Mike, you are 8 miles from localizer course, turn left heading 040 degrees, descend to 2500, expect left turn into localizer 2 miles from outer marker.
Roger, approach, 040 degrees, let me review the missed approach to make sure I haven't over looked anything, climb to 3,000, 023 degree heading to Sucgo, left turn to Quarr and on track 311 degrees to Babby and hold Northwest, 1 minute legs. Pretty good rain shower, got to turn on the wipers, Minimum descent altitude 1745MSL, looking good, 2500 and I can see the lights on 285, ah, there is the rabbit, 110 knots over the fence, power back, a little back pressure and hey, a grease job. Now to get home in one piece on I-85 and I will have had a pretty good day.
SUCH IS THE LIFE IN A DAY FOR A CORPERATE PILOT!
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l488/05263739/Kingair200.jpg)
A typical Kingair 200
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l488/05263739/200instrumentpanel.png)
The "Office"
(http://i1120.photobucket.com/albums/l488/05263739/200cabin.jpg)
Cabin area for passengers
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Corporate is the word you need in the subject my good fellow.
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Corporate is the word you need in the subject my good fellow.
He don't need no stinkin' spelling. He's a pileit.
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The Reply button works wonders too.
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Corporate is the word you need in the subject my good fellow.
:airplane: "aw shucks", wish yu hadn't noticed
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If you don't mind some constructive criticism, google 'Neptunus Lex' and have a read of some of his stories of corporate flight. With the greatest of respect, your postings so far aren't so much stories as they are a transcript of ATC transmissions.
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If you don't mind some constructive criticism, google 'Neptunus Lex' and have a read of some of his stories of corporate flight. With the greatest of respect, your postings so far aren't so much stories as they are a transcript of ATC transmissions.
To the uninitiated like me it made a revelation that man "you don't just get a clear for takeoff and clear for landing message" from the ATC. I was onboard with Earl1937 as he negotiated the "empty Sky". :aok
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If you don't mind some constructive criticism, google 'Neptunus Lex' and have a read of some of his stories of corporate flight. With the greatest of respect, your postings so far aren't so much stories as they are a transcript of ATC transmissions.
:airplane: I do appreciate your comments, but for a qualified pilot, its boring reading, but for someone who aspires to be a pro pilot someday, its good educational material to add to their aviation knowledge. There is a lot more to the book, which is not finished, I purposely picked a "technical" chapter for that reason.
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If you don't mind some constructive criticism, google 'Neptunus Lex' and have a read of some of his stories of corporate flight. With the greatest of respect, your postings so far aren't so much stories as they are a transcript of ATC transmissions.
And we don't talk like that on the radio. Neither does ATC. Way too much verbiage in there. Listen to Liveatc.net sometime...
N-number one digit too long. 9-0-4 Papa Mike. When shortened would be 4 Papa Mike.
N904PM
"King Air Nine-oh-four Papa Mike..." Or Falcon, Legacy, Citation....whatever...
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"King Air Four Papa Mike, Fort Worth Center, climb maintain Flight Level 2-0-0, cleared direct Cowboy."
"Leaving one-two thousand for Flight Level 2-0-0, direct Cowboy, Four Papa Mike."
Very crisp. Short.
"King Air Four Papa Mike, contact Houston Center one-three-five point four-five."
"Thirty-five forty-five, Four Papa Mike, good day, sir."
"Good day."
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And we don't talk like that on the radio. Neither does ATC. Way too much verbiage in there. Listen to Liveatc.net sometime...
N-number one digit too long. 9-0-4 Papa Mike. When shortened would be 4 Papa Mike.
N904PM
"King Air Nine-oh-four Papa Mike..." Or Falcon, Legacy, Citation....whatever...
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"King Air Four Papa Mike, Fort Worth Center, climb maintain Flight Level 2-0-0, cleared direct Cowboy."
"Leaving one-two thousand for Flight Level 2-0-0, direct Cowboy, Four Papa Mike."
Very crisp. Short.
"King Air Four Papa Mike, contact Houston Center one-three-five point four-five."
"Thirty-five forty-five, Four Papa Mike, good day, sir."
"Good day."
Don't mind this, was going to say something but ah, forget it. :salute
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And we don't talk like that on the radio. Neither does ATC. Way too much verbiage in there. Listen to Liveatc.net sometime...
"We're not SUPPOSED to talk like that" might be closer to the truth. There's plenty of excess chatter even in NYC's Class B airspace. Depends on what traffic is like at the moment.
- oldman
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"We're not SUPPOSED to talk like that" might be closer to the truth. There's plenty of excess chatter even in NYC's Class B airspace. Depends on what traffic is like at the moment.
- oldman
Nothing like in the story above. Never heard that in 25 years of flying. The phraseology, tempo, and content are all very wrong.
Again, the OP needs to listen to liveatc.net for about an hour then go back and rewrite it.
"Four Papa Mike, turn left heading zero-four-zero, maintain 3,000 until established, cleared ILS Runway Eight Left."
"Zero-four-zero, three thousand, cleared ILS Eight Left, Four Papa Mike."
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Don't mind this, was going to say something but ah, forget it. :salute
Just trying to help the OP. :salute
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Whats the experience of this "curporite" pilot?
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He's a former B-29 pilot (post WW2) who turned to commercial aviation after he got out of the Air Force. How do you not know about Earl1937?
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Actually I think he got his in the USAF flying 106's and F-4's.
I don't know much about ATC chatter so I can't comment as to that.
IOE is airline-, seat-, and type-specific.
Rhino driver. Nice. Gotta' love old Double Ugly.
Spend a few hours listening in on the scanner or an archive online. Self-evident truths there, even for a non-pilot... :cheers:
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If you don't mind some constructive criticism, google 'Neptunus Lex' and have a read of some of his stories of corporate flight. With the greatest of respect, your postings so far aren't so much stories as they are a transcript of ATC transmissions.
I wanted to say that but didn't want to be rude. Now that you said it, I can however second the thought.
And as for the chatter, if Earl flew WW2 he's probably been out of active piloting for some time now and the radio traffic culture may have changed a lot in a couple of decades.
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I enjoyed readin the OP's story just the way it is.. silly me :)
I have 18hrs of dual instruction in a number of different aircraft
(including an hour in Crazy Horse with Lee Lauderback ..to this day he doesn't beleive I only had 17 hrs in my log after what we did :)
.. solo'd at the 7hr mark in a beater Cessna 172 we affectionately called 'snaggletooth' due to the dual exhaust stickin out the bottom of the cowl.
I had an example of controller-pilot interaction initiated by me one fine day near Edwards AFB long ago that prolly does not fit Vraciu's 'correct dialogue'
..yet it still happened.
Four-Zero Romeo was our call sign on that particular day..
Wife, Instructor, and I were motorin at altitude on the way to the Porterville Moonlight Fly-in.
We had taken off from Apple Valley airport and the route was a steep climbout to get over min alt above George AFB then skirt southern edge of Edwards airspace
followed by a hook North to Porterville for a weekend of airplane fun.
Uneventful to cruise alt, then I setup for cruise speed right at the yellow line on airspeed indicator,
it was smooth air and I wanted to see if I could make 4-0-Romeo actually go that fast without hurting anything :)
The space shuttle was going to be landing at Edwards in about an hour.
As we came to the southern border of Edwards airspace Edwards ATC comes on demanding to know who we are.
I replied 'Edwards tower Four Zero Romeo is a Cessna 172 at (whatever our cruise alt was .. I think we were 2k AGL or about 5500'.. don't remember) ..
..on the way to Porterville Ca for the fly-in.'
Edwards tower informed us not to enter their space ..and then it got strange..
..he said they were scrambling an F-16 to check us out.
'Edwards tower does the F-16 want to engage in a dogfight, just to keep his skillset up?' I asked.
I mean .. I was an Air Warrior after all.
The ATC guy in the tower actually laughed .. on the radio.
A moment went by.
'Four Zero Romeo the F-16 pilot says you are probably too tough for him, he is on your six
and you are cleared to your destination, do not enter Edwards airspace.'
'Roger Edwards tower, hope you have a nice day.'
Yes .. I had my map out, our course was half a mile or so south of Edwards airspace boundary,
..and I never saw the F-16 .. I suck.
Wife didn't think it was funny, my instructor looked like he had swallowed a pumpkin,
and I had a good laugh ..it was a good flight :)
When we got to Porterville is a whole other story ..my first field buzz job, bombing contest, an all :)
-Gray Eagle aka Frank
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Great story Grayeagle! Nice example of reality and how it occasionally comes across on the radio. :salute
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See Rules #2, #4
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I enjoyed readin the OP's story just the way it is.. silly me :)
I have 18hrs of dual instruction in a number of different aircraft
(including an hour in Crazy Horse with Lee Lauderback ..to this day he doesn't beleive I only had 17 hrs in my log after what we did :)
.. solo'd at the 7hr mark in a beater Cessna 172 we affectionately called 'snaggletooth' due to the dual exhaust stickin out the bottom of the cowl.
I had an example of controller-pilot interaction initiated by me one fine day near Edwards AFB long ago that prolly does not fit Vraciu's 'correct dialogue'
..yet it still happened.
Four-Zero Romeo was our call sign on that particular day..
Wife, Instructor, and I were motorin at altitude on the way to the Porterville Moonlight Fly-in.
We had taken off from Apple Valley airport and the route was a steep climbout to get over min alt above George AFB then skirt southern edge of Edwards airspace
followed by a hook North to Porterville for a weekend of airplane fun.
Uneventful to cruise alt, then I setup for cruise speed right at the yellow line on airspeed indicator,
it was smooth air and I wanted to see if I could make 4-0-Romeo actually go that fast without hurting anything :)
The space shuttle was going to be landing at Edwards in about an hour.
As we came to the southern border of Edwards airspace Edwards ATC comes on demanding to know who we are.
I replied 'Edwards tower Four Zero Romeo is a Cessna 172 at (whatever our cruise alt was .. I think we were 2k AGL or about 5500'.. don't remember) ..
..on the way to Porterville Ca for the fly-in.'
Edwards tower informed us not to enter their space ..and then it got strange..
..he said they were scrambling an F-16 to check us out.
'Edwards tower does the F-16 want to engage in a dogfight, just to keep his skillset up?' I asked.
I mean .. I was an Air Warrior after all.
The ATC guy in the tower actually laughed .. on the radio.
A moment went by.
'Four Zero Romeo the F-16 pilot says you are probably too tough for him, he is on your six
and you are cleared to your destination, do not enter Edwards airspace.'
'Roger Edwards tower, hope you have a nice day.'
Yes .. I had my map out, our course was half a mile or so south of Edwards airspace boundary,
..and I never saw the F-16 .. I suck.
Wife didn't think it was funny, my instructor looked like he had swallowed a pumpkin,
and I had a good laugh ..it was a good flight :)
When we got to Porterville is a whole other story ..my first field buzz job, bombing contest, an all :)
-Gray Eagle aka Frank
:rofl :aok Don't think they scrambled the Jet, but kept you on your toes.
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I felt the need to detail that I only have 18hrs of dual instruction to this date ..because I know, on this board,
..someone would ask with the intent of sayin I am but a grasshopper in the sky (to put it kindly)
When it came to flyin Crazy Horse (a P-51D converted by Cavalier to TF-51D specs .. see www.stallion51.com )
..I felt a lot like that lootenant in Aliens when asked how many combat drops he had done.
In the early years of Air Warrior I used to have a routine.
I would fly the Mustang for a month, then choose another type to fly for the next month.
Then back to the Mustang ..etc.
I wanted to become proficient in the Mustang
..and yet learn all the strengths and weaknesses of the other types.
Back then you paid by the hour for being online ..
..being in Victorville, I paid GEnie 6$/hr plus a $2/hr surcharge
..so $8hr was what it cost me to fly the friendly skies.
My average montly bill was in the $1500/mo range.
Every month.
Comes out to about 187hrs a month online.
I didn't spend a lot of time on the 'forums' altho..
..after several years, Kesmai let me open a sort of welcome wagon area
because I tried to help new players 'get into' Air Warrior a bit.
In any case ..figure about 150hrs 'flight time' per month.
Works out to 900 hrs Mustang time a year.
I had at least 5 solid years of that ..long before getting hired by Kesmai as Lead Artist.
So when Lee Lauderback asked me how many hours I had, total .. I asked him:
'Simulated or actual?' with a huge grin.. it was a Kodak moment :)
After we did the hour in Crazy Horse doing everything I had ever dreamed of doing in a Mustang,
he let me land it. Even with crazy wind shear on final it was almost a non-event.
I mean ..no one was shootin at me the entire time. Skate.
And .. the frame rate was great, sound was just right, no jerkiness in horizon when doing a roll or loop,
..and the textures were spot on. -evil grin-
Even simulated strafing runs followed by pop-up and roll onto target matched the numbers in Air Warrior's Mustang.
(we were over Naval Weapons Training Center, Florida ..even spent a bit of time at tree top *and lower* near 400 indicated)
When it came to land, final was full flaps, gear, steady rate of descent, and over the fence at 100ias,
80ias on the flare, and she greased in on the mains with the tail settling smoothly as we slowed.
Done that more than a few times in Air Warrior.
Usually with someone in the pattern tryin to shoot me :)
So ..durin debrief Lee asks: 'No roadkill, how many hours have you flown?'
I replied: 'Counting this one, 18 actual'
He said I did better than a lot of pilots with thousands of hours and I seemed to 'wear the airplane.'
I told him I flew the Mustang a *LOT* in Air Warrior ..for years.
Yes .. a sim with decently accurate numbers for a type will teach you enough to be 'comfortable' about what to expect in the real thing.
ie: sight picture for what a good approach looks like .. just for one.
Even if you just have 18hrs actual :)
Since Lee is CFI in type, it's in my logbook ..1.0 hours of aerobatics, TF-51D
He said I could solo Crazy Horse the next time I went up.
I am a Dweeb, but .. not as much as some like to think.
I also have two years of college level aeronautics from Embry-Riddle, 4.0 GPA
I learned why my R/C scale Spitfire would torque roll on takeoff seemingly at random even.
Same reasons the real ones do ..and we still lose them that way occasionally :(
Seems the stall wave propagation on the elliptical wing blanket ailerons long before the wing actually gives up flying.
High angle of attack with high throttle setting is a recipe for disaster in a Spit.
(like .. for a missed approach or go around, f'instance)
I also designed and flew my own gliders, U-control, and R/C aircraft from grade school on up.
-just sayin (tm Pasha)
-Frank aka GE
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He's a former B-29 pilot (post WW2) who turned to commercial aviation after he got out of the Air Force. How do you not know about Earl1937?
:airplane: No on WW2, Korean war eara!
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I wanted to say that but didn't want to be rude. Now that you said it, I can however second the thought.
And as for the chatter, if Earl flew WW2 he's probably been out of active piloting for some time now and the radio traffic culture may have changed a lot in a couple of decades.
:airplane: Aw, what the heck, didn't mean to cause an uproar! Let set the record straight on a couple of things: Soloed in 1948, 66 years and 22,400 flight hours ago. As far as ATC text in chapter, in the 50's, 60's, 70's, and 80's, it was pretty much like that, or at least from my perspective, but all that changed with the advancement of electronics and improved air to ground and ground to air ATC conversations.
The book, if I ever finish it, is intended solely for the pleasure of the flying novice public and is not intend as a training tool for "kerosene" jocks! Mostly is about how I started, what I did to learn to fly, (washed 4 a/c, from tub in back of daddy's 1946 Plymouth). Did not know you had to be age 16 to solo, with a student pilot ticket from a rated instructor, all I had to help me where 2 old WW2 pilots, who if they knew, never said anything. I had about 120 hours by age 16, soloed the PT-19, Luschome 8A, J-3 and a PA-12A Super Cruiser.
Still get to fly a Cessna 182 and a Model 58 Beech Baron every once in a while. Retired from instructing 2 and 1/2 years ago because of bad left eye! This game has been important to me, as it lets an old "codger" like me still fly with out killing anyone! LOL
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I was ATC in the 70's Earl and you described it perfectly. We were humans, the pilots were humans and you got to know each other after awhile if you flew the same routes. "Chatting" was never discouraged and strict protocol was always used in an emergency. Heck, I would hear fellow ATC workers talking to someone I knew and would ask them to hand them off to me many many times.
Don't let the mindless fools discourage you Earl, they weren't there, they probably aren't there now, and they will unlikely be there tomorrow, just pretenders.
And Earl, I'm really glad you are here, with us, playing as we do. Truly a pleasure sir, keep the stories coming.
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I was ATC in the 70's Earl and you described it perfectly. We were humans, the pilots were humans and you got to know each other after awhile if you flew the same routes. "Chatting" was never discouraged and strict protocol was always used in an emergency. Heck, I would hear fellow ATC workers talking to someone I knew and would ask them to hand them off to me many many times.
Don't let the mindless fools discourage you Earl, they weren't there, they probably aren't there now, and they will unlikely be there tomorrow, just pretenders.
And Earl, I'm really glad you are here, with us, playing as we do. Truly a pleasure sir, keep the stories coming.
:airplane: A color never hurt any forum, I suppose! I have other stories which I think some would find interesting , but am sure some would have something negative to say, but that's OK, like you said, I was there and they weren't!
Some stories are funny and some not so funny, but had good ending anyway, or I probably would not be here now!
Prop blade lost was doing approach to landing stalls with a student one day, full flaps and power off and we lost 18 inches of one of the prop blades., Had it happened in cruise or power on stalls, which we had been doing, I doubt if I would be here today. Landed the bird, with engine shut down and holding 60MPH IAS all the way to touchdown in a cow pasture. School mech brings out prop with AI in tow, installs prop, signs it off, the Feds wouldn't let student fly back with me, so did a short field takeoff, but kept hitting something and finally got it in the air. Landed back at flight school, and "cow" dung all over the bottom of aircraft as I was hitting dung piles. Aircraft, after that was know as "stinky" one!
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Great story Earl! Keep 'em coming! :aok
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:airplane: A color never hurt any forum, I suppose! I have other stories which I think some would find interesting , but am sure some would have something negative to say, but that's OK, like you said, I was there and they weren't!
Some stories are funny and some not so funny, but had good ending anyway, or I probably would not be here now!
Prop blade lost was doing approach to landing stalls with a student one day, full flaps and power off and we lost 18 inches of one of the prop blades., Had it happened in cruise or power on stalls, which we had been doing, I doubt if I would be here today. Landed the bird, with engine shut down and holding 60MPH IAS all the way to touchdown in a cow pasture. School mech brings out prop with AI in tow, installs prop, signs it off, the Feds wouldn't let student fly back with me, so did a short field takeoff, but kept hitting something and finally got it in the air. Landed back at flight school, and "cow" dung all over the bottom of aircraft as I was hitting dung piles. Aircraft, after that was know as "stinky" one!
Lol, did you have to clean it up afterwards?
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Lol, did you have to clean it up afterwards?
:airplane: No!
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YOU WERE AT PDK AND DIDNT TELL ME!?!?! I live in newnan just 30 minutes south we need to meet up earl!
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:lol
Page 2 is nothing but See Rule #4
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YOU WERE AT PDK AND DIDNT TELL ME!?!?! I live in newnan just 30 minutes south we need to meet up earl!
:airplane: I used to be based out of PDK, but I have lived in the Chattanooga area since 98, when I retired from being an active cooperate pilot. If you ever see that you might be in this area, let me know and we can have lunch or something!
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Will do! :joystick: :joystick: :joystick: