Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Coalcat1 on June 20, 2014, 06:55:58 AM

Title: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Coalcat1 on June 20, 2014, 06:55:58 AM
    There are some aircraft in the game, such as the I16, Brew ( no this is not linked to my hate of said AC) and a few other early war AC. I would like to see that if one of these AC goes above 10k for more than 3min that the pilot will start to black out as if the pilot had a PW and die with in 10min.

                                                               :salute Coalcat1
                                                                   Have at it
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Lusche on June 20, 2014, 07:38:45 AM
What makes yuo think early war planes had no oxygen systems?
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Coalcat1 on June 20, 2014, 07:55:30 AM
Not all early war birds had oxygen systems, the I16 being one of them. The Brew had no oxygen system as far as I know, but please correct me.
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: FLOOB on June 20, 2014, 08:18:44 AM
He may be right. What year was oxygen invented?
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: kvuo75 on June 20, 2014, 08:26:40 AM
I want to know where the 3 minutes at 10,000msl comes from..  :huh

I took the gondola up to the summit of mammoth mountain in California (11,060msl) and could have sat there indefinitely.


Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Lusche on June 20, 2014, 08:28:35 AM
Not all early war birds had oxygen systems, the I16 being one of them.


By the beginning of WW2, oxygen was pretty much standard with all fighters, including the I-16. AFAIK the Finnish Brewsters had oxygen systems as well.

Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Coalcat1 on June 20, 2014, 09:28:57 AM
I was under the impression that the I16 didn't have any oxygen systems, but I'm still pretty sure the US and Brit brews didn't have oxygen systems so if both where added this would be an interesting thing to see.  :devil It could also be a breakable system in other AC perhaps and if hit, you would need to stick around 10k or so. By the way, it was a typo, was supposed to say around 10k.
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Zimme83 on June 20, 2014, 09:48:17 AM
Lack of pressurised cabins should be a bigger concern. W/o it u are not able to go above 30k even w 100% oxygen. so the B-29 should be pretty much unchallenged above 30k.
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Puma44 on June 20, 2014, 10:07:15 AM
I was under the impression that the I16 didn't have any oxygen systems, but I'm still pretty sure the US and Brit brews didn't have oxygen systems so if both where added this would be an interesting thing to see.  :devil It could also be a breakable system in other AC perhaps and if hit, you would need to stick around 10k or so. By the way, it was a typo, was supposed to say around 10k.

"around 10K" still isn't accurate.  Here's a Time of Useful Consciousness (TUC) chart for reference.  :salute

(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/f69d97243c9f913d468ea4112c436749_zps485671db.jpg)
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Coalcat1 on June 20, 2014, 10:58:41 AM
You know what I mean, at 10k you don't have to worry about blacking out  :bhead
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Someguy63 on June 20, 2014, 11:37:28 AM
You know what I mean, at 10k you don't have to worry about blacking out  :bhead

However, some may become dizzy at 10,000 feet. :old:
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Dragon Tamer on June 20, 2014, 12:08:03 PM
Go ahead and add it, the P-47 has 2 oxygen systems! If you knock one out, I'll still be up there bullying your aircraft!  :devil
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: LCADolby on June 20, 2014, 01:23:32 PM
What year was oxygen invented?

:lol

Oh that tickled me

 :lol
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 20, 2014, 03:01:34 PM
All Brewster Buffalo models (including export models) were equipped with two oxygen tanks mounted in a wire mesh enclosure (to protect from fragments in case O2 bottle shot) mounted aft of the pilot. An oxygen regulator and mask were mounted on the starboard side of the pilot, within easy reach.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Ack-Ack on June 20, 2014, 03:07:38 PM

By the beginning of WW2, oxygen was pretty much standard with all fighters, including the I-16. AFAIK the Finnish Brewsters had oxygen systems as well.



Towards the end of WW1 (1918), air forces on both sides started to experiment with using oxygen in their planes.  I believe that the RAF started to include in either the Dolphin or the Snipe an oxygen system for the pilot, however, pilots frequently complained that the oxygen bottles were so small that it only contained enough oxygen for a few 'gulps'.  After WW1, it became more common to include oxygen systems in planes.

WW1 RAF oxygen system.
(http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/15/7d/89/157d8981353b8ded5c94cddcfb55489f.jpg)

(http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk256/RobLangham/oxygen2.jpg)

WW1 German oxygen system
(http://forum.keypublishing.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=155231&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1183483914)

ack-ack
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: pembquist on June 20, 2014, 05:55:39 PM
+1 for euphoric hypoxia, everything gets rosey, the sound of the engine mutes away to be replaced by gentle harp music and a feeling of well being and invicibility is simulated accurately, suffusing your entire consciousness and lulling you into a nice warm nap.

Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Puma44 on June 20, 2014, 07:05:27 PM
You know what I mean, at 10k you don't have to worry about blacking out  :bhead
Actually I don't/didn't because your 3 minute and 10,000 feet reference doesn't correlate with anything realistic.

It would be interesting to have the black out occur at an appropriate altitude for aircraft that didn't have oxygen systems.
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Lusche on June 20, 2014, 07:08:53 PM
It would be interesting to have the black out occur at an appropriate altitude for aircraft that didn't have oxygen systems.


Good luck getting your Storch that high... ;)
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: colmbo on June 20, 2014, 10:50:50 PM
Lack of pressurised cabins should be a bigger concern. W/o it u are not able to go above 30k even w 100% oxygen. so the B-29 should be pretty much unchallenged above 30k.

Says who?  It's around 50K where you need a pressure suit, not 30k.
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Lusche on June 20, 2014, 11:04:04 PM
And beyond that fact, we actually do have a high altitude fighter with a pressurized cockpit in game... ;)
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: xPoisonx on June 21, 2014, 12:00:47 AM
Lack of pressurised cabins should be a bigger concern. W/o it u are not able to go above 30k even w 100% oxygen. so the B-29 should be pretty much unchallenged above 30k.

Meet the Ta-152  :ahand
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Puma44 on June 21, 2014, 01:40:48 AM
Says who?  It's around 50K where you need a pressure suit, not 30k.
In the USAF, we were restricted to 50 and below without a pressure suit, in a pressurized cockpit.
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Karnak on June 21, 2014, 07:01:09 AM
Lack of pressurised cabins should be a bigger concern. W/o it u are not able to go above 30k even w 100% oxygen. so the B-29 should be pretty much unchallenged above 30k.
Ta152H-1 and Mosquito Mk XVI are also pressurized.

Unpressurized Spitfires were flown to altitudes over 40,000ft though, so unless you can think of a way to model the increased crew comfort of the three pressurized aircraft in AH I can't see a reason to concern ourselves about it in AH.
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: FLOOB on June 21, 2014, 12:57:20 PM
In WWI the germans used pressurized bombers when they bombed Britain.
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Lusche on June 21, 2014, 01:07:17 PM
In WWI the germans used pressurized bombers when they bombed Britain.


How do you pressurize an open cockpit? ;)


But more seriously, I don't know of any operational WWI planes utilizing cabin pressurisation at all. Which type you refer to?
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: earl1937 on June 21, 2014, 01:10:59 PM
    There are some aircraft in the game, such as the I16, Brew ( no this is not linked to my hate of said AC) and a few other early war AC. I would like to see that if one of these AC goes above 10k for more than 3min that the pilot will start to black out as if the pilot had a PW and die with in 10min.

                                                               :salute Coalcat1
                                                                   Have at it
:airplane: Now, I believe in immersion in the game, but what you are asking for is a pressurized cockpit, because I don't think there are enough Army/Navy surplus stores in America to supply all the oxygen masks we would need in the game!
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: FLOOB on June 21, 2014, 01:11:25 PM
Matter of fact, incendiary tracer ammo was invented in WWI in britain for the very purpose of depressurizing german bombers.
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Lusche on June 21, 2014, 01:13:26 PM
Oh, please...
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Zimme83 on June 21, 2014, 01:26:37 PM
Ta152H-1 and Mosquito Mk XVI are also pressurized.

Unpressurized Spitfires were flown to altitudes over 40,000ft though, so unless you can think of a way to model the increased crew comfort of the three pressurized aircraft in AH I can't see a reason to concern ourselves about it in AH.

You are probably right. I stand corrected.
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Zimme83 on June 21, 2014, 01:37:07 PM
Matter of fact, incendiary tracer ammo was invented in WWI in britain for the very purpose of depressurizing german bombers.

The Germans were primary using zeppelins for long range bombing. And depressurizing in this case mean that they were making holes in the zeppelin cases and hopefully ignited them. Its a completley different thing than what we discuss here.
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: FLOOB on June 21, 2014, 01:51:56 PM
Oh, please...
For reals yo.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/military/zeppelin-terror-attack.html

Go to about 38:00
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Lusche on June 21, 2014, 01:53:30 PM
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/military/zeppelin-terror-attack.html

Go to about 38:00



I am not living in the United States...
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: FLOOB on June 21, 2014, 01:53:56 PM
The Germans were primary using zeppelins for long range bombing. And depressurizing in this case mean that they were making holes in the zeppelin cases and hopefully ignited them. Its a completley different thing than what we discuss here.
I bet you're the life of the party.
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: FLOOB on June 21, 2014, 01:57:21 PM

I am not living in the United States...
I apologize I had no idea that PBS was ran by a bunch of jackboot nationalists.

Basically it explains that regular machine gun ammo in 1916 wasn't making big enough holes in the bombers to bring them down so they invented a bullet that would set fire to the bomber's skin.
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Zimme83 on June 21, 2014, 02:53:51 PM
But still. It was zeppelins, not aircrafts. And it has nothing to do with pressurised cabins.
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: FLOOB on June 21, 2014, 04:03:05 PM
But still. It was zeppelins, not aircrafts. And it has nothing to do with pressurised cabins.
Everyone's a comedian..

Wo wohnst du?
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Chalenge on June 21, 2014, 05:14:41 PM
I think Airco had the first true pressurized cockpit around 1920 (maybe shortly after). The effects of Hypoxia can hit people differently and may take effect upon people as low as 5,000 feet. A very small percentage of WWII pilots washed out because they could not maintain normal coordination above 5,000 feet. I think the US tested pilots at 8-12,000 early on in their flight program. Some brilliant engineer had calculated how much oxygen the average person would need over a set amount of time, and the gear was calibrated to deliver that amount. If you could not maintain normal function without oxygen below 12,000 feet, then you would not survive the average mission because you would be consuming too much of your supplied oxygen. Meanwhile, there would be plenty of oxygen for someone that could breath easy, as it were.

The amount of oxygen available increases with altitude. The ability to maintain a pressure altitude of 8,000 feet decreases as altitude increases above 23,000 feet (actually varies from aircraft to aircraft).
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: fbEagle on June 22, 2014, 09:57:15 AM
Meh..

http://www.authorsden.com/categories/article_top.asp?catid=73&id=36665



"Germany was one of the earliest nations involved in the First World War to recognize and address the need by aviators of aircraft and dirigibles for supplemental oxygen. The great Zeppelin dirigibles, by virtue of their ability to fly at higher altitudes, were the first war craft outfitted with aircrew oxygen systems, which were at first of the conventional compressed gas type, contained in iron storage flasks. Soon, however, the heavy storage flasks were replaced by early liquid oxygen generating systems. These systems were devised and produced by the Draeger Company, a company long associated with respiratory and resuscitation equipment for mining use. Other systems were produced by the Ahrend and Heylandt Company. It wasn’t long before some higher flying German bombers and fighters were equipped with these small, lightweight liquid oxygen systems. Oxygen could be breathed from these small ‘personal’ liquid oxygen systems through use of a mouthpiece (frequently called a ‘pipe stem’) that could be held clenched in the mouth of an aviator. The tube providing the oxygen was attached (on the German systems) to a large rebreathing bag positioned nearer the unit than the ‘pipe stem’, so that although the oxygen flow rate was continuous, more of the gas could be saved and reused in the process that would have otherwise been wasted."
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Cthulhu on June 23, 2014, 02:38:00 PM
Matter of fact, incendiary tracer ammo was invented in WWI in britain for the very purpose of depressurizing german bombers.

You obviously typed that after your "Time of Useful Conciousness" had run out.
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: FLOOB on June 23, 2014, 05:22:35 PM
You obviously typed that after your "Time of Useful Conciousness" had run out.
Are you saying that Nova got it wrong?
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: danny76 on July 02, 2014, 02:59:05 AM
Floob actually made me laugh, just not as much as the rush of replies to discount his post.

Everything he said was true, he was just being a little facetious. :aok
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: Ack-Ack on July 02, 2014, 02:03:49 PM
Are you saying that Nova got it wrong?

Yes, if they are claiming the tracers were specifically developed to counter the Zeppelin threat.

ack-ack
Title: Re: Oxygen equipment
Post by: lunatic1 on July 02, 2014, 05:38:41 PM
don't worry coal your cartoon pilot won't suffocate and die in you cartoon plane