Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Blinder on June 21, 2014, 03:00:15 PM

Title: The AVG and the Tomahawk
Post by: Blinder on June 21, 2014, 03:00:15 PM
I've been reading a truly magnificent account of Claire Chennault and his American Volunteer Group penned by Daniel Ford.

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51E49TQSY5L.jpg)

I'd like to share a small excerpt from page 145 that really showcases Mr. Fords attention to detail when conducting his research and interviews for this piece:

The alarm howled again at 12:30 pm. Each man ran to his plane, climbed the wing, slid into the cockpit, and buckled his seatbelt and parachute harness.  His fingers danced across the toggles and rotary dials: ignition switch on battery – fuel tank on reserve – generator on – propeller circuit breaker on – selector switch automatic – throttle open – mixture control idle cutoff – carburetor cold. Coolant flaps open, stroke the priming pump and press the master switch to send current to the inertia starter. Hear the flywheel whine faster, faster. Ignition switch from battery to both magnetos. Engage the starter. Hear the flywheel slow as it takes the load, followed by the coughing and spitting of the big Allison engine, belching smoke from the twelve short exhaust pipes.

The clatter smoothed to a mellow roar, and the Tomahawk began its perilous roll, weaving past the soft spots where bomb craters had been filled by coolie labor, while other fighters competed for the same small bits of airspace, gray phantoms in the general storm of dust. At 100mph the planes lifted off, wheels retracting and canopies closing as they broke free …… To an onlooker, the Tomahawks seemed both fragile and brave – little more than hummingbirds – bouncing and jittering in their eagerness to leave the earth.


I've always thought the Curtiss P-40 family to be a beautiful series of planes. Especially with the shark mouth adornments. I always wondered what would have happened had Curtiss opted to install the Rolls Royce Merlin in this machine and possibly equip it with a 4-bladed prop. Even possibly cut down the fuselage and give it a bubble canopy like the Mustang and Thunderbolt. Would this incantation have been a viable war winner? What sayest though Aces High fighter gurus?

Anyway I highly recommend this book for anyone who would really enjoy a good and detailed read. Some of the parts about Greg Boyington had me in stitches.
Title: Re: The AVG and the Tomahawk
Post by: Widewing on June 21, 2014, 04:02:45 PM
I've known Dan for a long time. Going back to his pissing contests with Erik Shilling on what type P-40 the AVG actually flew (no, they were not Tomahawk IIs, the AVG received a unique hybrid model).

Visit Dan's website for more reading....
http://www.warbirdforum.com/ (http://www.warbirdforum.com/)
Title: Re: The AVG and the Tomahawk
Post by: Widewing on June 21, 2014, 04:15:46 PM

I've always thought the Curtiss P-40 family to be a beautiful series of planes. Especially with the shark mouth adornments. I always wondered what would have happened had Curtiss opted to install the Rolls Royce Merlin in this machine and possibly equip it with a 4-bladed prop. Even possibly cut down the fuselage and give it a bubble canopy like the Mustang and Thunderbolt. Would this incantation have been a viable war winner? What sayest though Aces High fighter gurus?

Anyway I highly recommend this book for anyone who would really enjoy a good and detailed read. Some of the parts about Greg Boyington had me in stitches.


XP-40Q...
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn134/PabloSniper/NovoaImagemdebitmap15.jpg)

(http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/PippinBill/5590L-4.jpg)

Went racing post war... Was crashed...
(http://www.airrace.com/images/82%20%20Ziegler%20.jpg)

(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/375/pics/3_113.jpg)

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/P-40/P-40Q_42-9987_Eng-47-1660-A.pdf (http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/P-40/P-40Q_42-9987_Eng-47-1660-A.pdf)
Title: Re: The AVG and the Tomahawk
Post by: Blinder on June 21, 2014, 04:23:40 PM
XP-40Q...
(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn134/PabloSniper/NovoaImagemdebitmap15.jpg)

(http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/PippinBill/5590L-4.jpg)

Went racing post war... Was crashed...
(http://www.airrace.com/images/82%20%20Ziegler%20.jpg)

(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/375/pics/3_113.jpg)

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/P-40/P-40Q_42-9987_Eng-47-1660-A.pdf (http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/P-40/P-40Q_42-9987_Eng-47-1660-A.pdf)

Now that is one fine looking machine! I admit I never knew they built it. How did it fair, performance wise, against the Republic and North American competition?
Title: Re: The AVG and the Tomahawk
Post by: Blinder on June 21, 2014, 04:42:05 PM
I've known Dan for a long time. Going back to his pissing contests with Erik Shilling on what type P-40 the AVG actually flew (no, they were not Tomahawk IIs, the AVG received a unique hybrid model).

Visit Dan's website for more reading....
http://www.warbirdforum.com/ (http://www.warbirdforum.com/)

Next time you speak with him, please pass on my accolades and thank him for producing an honest account of history despite the backlash he has received. I believe in finding the pure truth in history and not the watered-down politically correct modern viewpoints of how someone thinks it should have happened.
Title: Re: The AVG and the Tomahawk
Post by: Brooke on June 21, 2014, 06:02:37 PM
The P-40 does quite well in scenarios against A6M's.
Title: Re: The AVG and the Tomahawk
Post by: MiloMorai on June 21, 2014, 11:45:21 PM
Now that is one fine looking machine! I admit I never knew they built it. How did it fair, performance wise, against the Republic and North American competition?

Not perfect but....
http://www.joebaugher.com/uscombataircraft.html
Title: Re: The AVG and the Tomahawk
Post by: artik on June 22, 2014, 04:28:01 AM
I've been reading a truly magnificent account of Claire Chennault and his American Volunteer Group penned by Daniel Ford.
...

If you loved it I'd suggest you to read the story from the 1st person perspective: "Way of Warrior" by Claire Lee Chennault... (I talked about it recently (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,361826.msg4809608/topicseen.html#msg4809608))

What is especially interesting in this book is that is totally "politically incorrect" one - Chennault does not spare the criticism from the high command.
Title: Re: The AVG and the Tomahawk
Post by: bortas1 on June 22, 2014, 09:59:40 AM
 :salute I have long admired the p-40s. just wished I could fly it good.  :cheers:
Title: Re: The AVG and the Tomahawk
Post by: TonyJoey on June 22, 2014, 10:24:31 AM
The P-40 does quite well in scenarios against A6M's.

A major part of that is obviously we've put in many more hours fighting Zekes than the real pilots and know beforehand what it took many lives to figure out.
Title: Re: The AVG and the Tomahawk
Post by: Widewing on June 22, 2014, 11:26:57 AM
Next time you speak with him, please pass on my accolades and thank him for producing an honest account of history despite the backlash he has received. I believe in finding the pure truth in history and not the watered-down politically correct modern viewpoints of how someone thinks it should have happened.

My last conversation with Dan was when Erik passed away, and that was via email.

Dan has a Facebook page, so you can post your gratitude there directly... Dan does read it often and replies to posts.

Go here: https://www.facebook.com/danfordbooks (https://www.facebook.com/danfordbooks)
Title: Re: The AVG and the Tomahawk
Post by: FLS on June 22, 2014, 11:58:00 AM
A major part of that is obviously we've put in many more hours fighting Zekes than the real pilots and know beforehand what it took many lives to figure out.

From what I've read Chennault had figured out effective tactics prior to the AVG becoming active.
Title: Re: The AVG and the Tomahawk
Post by: Blinder on June 22, 2014, 12:39:01 PM
From what I've read Chennault had figured out effective tactics prior to the AVG becoming active.

Yup. It is well documented in this book. Many times he would stand outside with some of his staff and observe Japanese tactics from the ground. Sometimes with bombs from Sallys and Lilys falling around him. He would then send his reports to Marshall in Washington who would promptly dismiss them as rubbish because the prevailing notion in the west was of Japanese inferiority.
Title: Re: The AVG and the Tomahawk
Post by: Rich46yo on June 23, 2014, 12:19:45 PM
Yup. It is well documented in this book. Many times he would stand outside with some of his staff and observe Japanese tactics from the ground. Sometimes with bombs from Sallys and Lilys falling around him. He would then send his reports to Marshall in Washington who would promptly dismiss them as rubbish because the prevailing notion in the west was of Japanese inferiority.

Figures. Never fail to overestimate our ability to underestimate.