Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: zack1234 on June 23, 2014, 04:35:33 PM

Title: headphones
Post by: zack1234 on June 23, 2014, 04:35:33 PM
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/sennheiser-g4me-zero-premium-closed-back-professional-headset-with-noise-cancelling-microphone-black


Are these headphones any good?.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 24, 2014, 12:05:25 AM
Sennheiser is a good brand. I read a Sennheiser G4ME Zero gaming headphone review recently which gave quite good remarks about it. They mentioned that the sound was a bit too hi-fi for games, meaning there was no boosted bass and exaggerated spatial sound that may be desireable while gaming. The cost was only high, around 300 bucks.

The verdict was that the Sennheiser was a good overall headphone for both music and games. It was compared to Creative Soundblaster headphones which were around 70 bucks cheaper, those were better suited for games but not so good for listening music.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: zack1234 on June 24, 2014, 01:24:31 AM
Is there a proper surround headset?

I have been informed that my G35 are simulation 7.1 :old:
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: guncrasher on June 24, 2014, 01:39:32 AM
it looks like its a stereo sound.  so no.



semp
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 24, 2014, 01:49:29 AM
Is there a proper surround headset?

I have been informed that my G35 are simulation 7.1 :old:

There is something that can make your headset sound like 3D even with only regular 2 channels. It's called head tracking. Once the sound starts to follow your head movements it stops being fixed between your ears.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/dspeaker-headspeaker-headphone-virtual-surround-system
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: McShark on June 24, 2014, 03:33:56 AM
Will receive a Turtle Beach Z Seven today from Amazon....

Very curious if 7.1 makes such a difference...

Will report back on that.

Serious $$$ tho but you only live once  :D
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 24, 2014, 03:39:35 AM
Will receive a Turtle Beach Z Seven today from Amazon....

Very curious if 7.1 makes such a difference...

Will report back on that.

Serious $$$ tho but you only live once  :D

Without head tracking headphones can never produce a truly believable sound stage. The brain needs slight head movements to interpret the directions of the sounds due to the time misalignment of your ears. That's why the sound is located inside your head while using headphones even though in a sense your ears get fed the same sound as from a surround system.

The most problematic of all sounds (when using headphones) is sound eminating directly in front of you.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: Charge on June 24, 2014, 04:20:24 AM
Creative soundcards have a system that will simulate 3D soundscape with stereosound. I think it works OK, at least on old SB Titanium.

-C+
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: McShark on June 24, 2014, 05:04:21 AM
Without head tracking headphones can never produce a truly believable sound stage. The brain needs slight head movements to interpret the directions of the sounds due to the time misalignment of your ears. That's why the sound is located inside your head while using headphones even though in a sense your ears get fed the same sound as from a surround system.

The most problematic of all sounds (when using headphones) is sound eminating directly in front of you.

Track IR?
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 24, 2014, 05:19:52 AM
Track IR?

In the case of headspeaker 'Track ultrasonic' :) It works like Track IR but uses ultrasonic audio to track changes in the direction of the sound when you move your head. Naturally for TrackIR users it would start to look ridiculous with a maze of antennas on top of your head!

(http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/styles/600_wide/public/DSpeaker_HeaDSPeaker_Photo_Main.jpg?itok=7zOr7hGI)
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: save on June 24, 2014, 10:08:11 AM
It is.

Is there a proper surround headset?

I have been informed that my G35 are simulation 7.1 :old:
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: zack1234 on June 24, 2014, 11:23:30 AM
So what is a good set of speakers, seems the only way for surround sound :old:

http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-audio/razer-tiamat-71

What about these headphones?
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: guncrasher on June 24, 2014, 12:25:53 PM
So what is a good set of speakers, seems the only way for surround sound :old:

http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-audio/razer-tiamat-71

What about these headphones?

 :x :x



semp
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 24, 2014, 01:30:33 PM
So what is a good set of speakers, seems the only way for surround sound :old:

http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-audio/razer-tiamat-71

What about these headphones?

A good 'set of speakers' for computer use will be a set of active near field monitors such as Adam audio A8X:s, Behringer 3031A:s or if you have money, Genelecs. Regular bookshelf speakers are usually not meant to be used for close listening so they won't work so well.

The Behringers have an insane price/quality ratio, you can get a set of 8 Behringers for the price of 1 pair of Genelec 8080s for example.

(http://www.bswusa.com/assets/product_images/large/behr_b3031a.jpg)
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: guncrasher on June 24, 2014, 09:08:59 PM
So what is a good set of speakers, seems the only way for surround sound :old:

http://www.razerzone.com/gaming-audio/razer-tiamat-71

What about these headphones?

think I am gonna order this one withing the next two weeks.  reviews arent that great on the mike itself but I am tired of holding up my old headset with tape.   if i was using redtape the goverment would have sure investigated me by now :).



semp
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: zack1234 on June 25, 2014, 01:51:08 AM
think I am gonna order this one withing the next two weeks.  reviews arent that great on the mike itself but I am tired of holding up my old headset with tape.   if i was using redtape the goverment would have sure investigated me by now :).



semp

I will wait until you have have given them a proper testing :)
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: guncrasher on June 25, 2014, 02:31:10 AM
I will wait until you have have given them a proper testing :)

you got the money, you pay the euros :).


semp

gonna get them anyway.  just waiting for when I get a day off so i can pick them up at newegg.  I am by myself now so no one here to receive packages as I live in an apartment.

semp
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: zack1234 on June 25, 2014, 12:14:50 PM
We still use pounds in GB :old:

I am going to get some on saturday :)

I cannot live on my own i would starve :old:
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: guncrasher on June 25, 2014, 01:51:53 PM
We still use pounds in GB :old:

I am going to get some on saturday :)

I cannot live on my own i would starve :old:

there's about 10 food places and 3 liquor stores within a block or two from my house. .  I'm never hungry or thirsty :).


semp
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: zack1234 on June 25, 2014, 04:59:18 PM
Awesome :)
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: guncrasher on June 25, 2014, 10:52:22 PM
Without head tracking headphones can never produce a truly believable sound stage. The brain needs slight head movements to interpret the directions of the sounds due to the time misalignment of your ears. That's why the sound is located inside your head while using headphones even though in a sense your ears get fed the same sound as from a surround system.

The most problematic of all sounds (when using headphones) is sound eminating directly in front of you.

you mean 7.1 or 5.1 is best used with trakir?  however I do agree that sounds coming from in front of you dont sound right.  then again those are from airplanes I can see.

more than once I have been saved because with m 5.1 system I can tell that an airplane was coming in fast behind me while chasing another airplane.  or heard the plane moving behind me from right or left clearly.


semp
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 25, 2014, 11:53:05 PM
you mean 7.1 or 5.1 is best used with trakir?  however I do agree that sounds coming from in front of you dont sound right.  then again those are from airplanes I can see.

more than once I have been saved because with m 5.1 system I can tell that an airplane was coming in fast behind me while chasing another airplane.  or heard the plane moving behind me from right or left clearly.


semp

Does TrackIR bind your sound information to your head movements? If so, yes it can have a small effect. But because TrackIR needs to have scaling (the monitor doesn't move with your head) your brain will realize that the sound is 'dislocated' from your head movements and the illusion breaks again. The human ear (brain) is used to having a bit distorted sound when sound arrives to your ears. This is because the same sound arrives a fraction of a second later to your second ear usually. So the brain does all sorts of fancy stuff to 'fix' the sound before you actually hear it. One of those 'fancy' tricks is that your brain will try to use the time differential and phase changes (some of which happen when the sound hits your ear lobes) in the sounds to determine the location of the sound. Because we have only two ears, in some cases the sound source can be hard to pinpoint by just listening statically. That's why every person subconciously moves their head around while they hear sound. The movements are miniscule but they're enough to cue your brain about the direction of the sound.

When you listen with headphones, those miniscule head movements do not correlate with the sound received and also the phase etc. information doesn't match. That's why your brain will reject the cues and the audio appears to play inside your head.

When you listen to stereo speakers that produce audio very accurately, the illusion works because the head movement correctly matches with the sound source. With multi channel it becomes all that more convincing - even though the overall summed sound is basically the same that plays out from the headphones. Funnily enough if you have a good enough speaker, you can 'sense' space in sound even with just a mono channel!

The system is very high tuned so the head tracking has to be pretty much instantaneous and the phase effects added to the sound just exactly right. That's why also 'headspeaker' DSP has multiple different settings for different types of people, you can try which setting comes closest to your own anatomy.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: guncrasher on June 26, 2014, 12:05:55 AM
but the wonderful thing about the human brain is that it adapts easily.  I can turn my head and hear which directions the airplanes are coming only exception is from the front as you have already explained.  not sure why.

the effect is clear when you are flying with a friendly and he gets behind you and moves around or he's on your left or right.  but sound doesnt really sound right when it's in front of you.

many times I have saved myself in a furball because I can clearly hear an engine coming from a certain direction or as he's firing.  well if he's firing I normally talk on vox saying I am dead before my airplane falls apart, but at least I heard him and could tell the direction first based on engine.

if there's too many many planes then it wont really matter as all you hear is a constant whining of engines all around.

but all sounds really is an illusion in the game, the only advantage is if you can adapt to it.


semp
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 26, 2014, 12:32:03 AM
but the wonderful thing about the human brain is that it adapts easily.  I can turn my head and hear which directions the airplanes are coming only exception is from the front as you have already explained.  not sure why.

the effect is clear when you are flying with a friendly and he gets behind you and moves around or he's on your left or right.  but sound doesnt really sound right when it's in front of you.

many times I have saved myself in a furball because I can clearly hear an engine coming from a certain direction or as he's firing.  well if he's firing I normally talk on vox saying I am dead before my airplane falls apart, but at least I heard him and could tell the direction first based on engine.

if there's too many many planes then it wont really matter as all you hear is a constant whining of engines all around.

but all sounds really is an illusion in the game, the only advantage is if you can adapt to it.


semp

Front sound is surprisingly the most problematic of all. When you add head tracking to headphones, the sound moves out of your head to your front so it feels like you're listening to a set of speakers again.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: zack1234 on June 26, 2014, 01:50:28 AM
You have head tracking headphones?
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 26, 2014, 02:27:23 AM
You have head tracking headphones?

Unfortunately no, the head tracking system costs 400 bucks (headphones not included) and I'm not exactly a fan of headphones. They bother me on long use sessions.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: guncrasher on June 26, 2014, 09:59:48 AM
You have head tracking headphones?

I have trakir with surround headset.



semp
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: Bruv119 on June 27, 2014, 01:22:01 PM
Unfortunately no, the head tracking system costs 400 bucks (headphones not included) and I'm not exactly a fan of headphones. They bother me on long use sessions.

you must have big ears like me.   
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on June 27, 2014, 03:12:22 PM
you must have big ears like me.   

Maybe, I also have very short hair so the band presses my hair stubs. Feels like acupuncture.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: Bizman on June 27, 2014, 04:23:03 PM
The materials matter much, as does the size of the earcups. The artificial leather coating of the strap of my headphones just stripped off, leaving a nice velour like material similar to that of the earcups. Doesn't press my hair stubs at all, not even on a Friday evening when I fly the most and my hair is at the longest after a Saturday night sauna shave.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: McShark on July 02, 2014, 05:59:51 AM
As mentioned earlier I received a Turtle Beach Seven surroud hedset.

It sits a bit tight, but that will wear off me having a big head  :D Earcaps are very comfy, hand stitched leather, nice and soft.

Comparing to an ordinary stereo headset, it is a big difference. Yet there are some issues making it hard to get used to it.

I hear a bandit's engine on my 6 from 825 yds. I can tell if he is straight, left or right behind me. Even difference in altitude is audible. When I look straight forward. And here the trouble starts.

The headset tries to interpret the sound to your view ( me using Track IR here ). So when a bandit is on my 6 and I look around to spot the bandit, sound comes from the front as well.

That makes it rather confusing to think about angles as you receive contradictuary information. View says rear ears say in front. I hope it only takes time to get used to it.

Also an issue, in a furball with multiple cons you hear everybody, which can be a lot of sound. And an airplane engine is an airplane engine, you have to look at the source to confirm it is hostile or friendly.

Gives you a better SA somehow but often you end up dodging friendlies....

It gets even worse when gv's are around. I hear any gv engine beyond Icon range ( that is 1,5 k I believe? ), mixed up with airplane engines, guns on ground and in the air is a lot of information to handle.

In the end it means to sit down and finetune all available sounds in game to get the information you need. Also you have a lot to fiddle regarding surround angles, speaker volumes and so on.

Does anyone have a surround headset who would like to share his advanced sound settings? Would be appreciated!

To be continued.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on July 02, 2014, 07:25:48 AM
As mentioned earlier I received a Turtle Beach Seven surroud hedset.

It sits a bit tight, but that will wear off me having a big head  :D Earcaps are very comfy, hand stitched leather, nice and soft.

Comparing to an ordinary stereo headset, it is a big difference. Yet there are some issues making it hard to get used to it.

I hear a bandit's engine on my 6 from 825 yds. I can tell if he is straight, left or right behind me. Even difference in altitude is audible. When I look straight forward. And here the trouble starts.

The headset tries to interpret the sound to your view ( me using Track IR here ). So when a bandit is on my 6 and I look around to spot the bandit, sound comes from the front as well.

That makes it rather confusing to think about angles as you receive contradictuary information. View says rear ears say in front. I hope it only takes time to get used to it.

Also an issue, in a furball with multiple cons you hear everybody, which can be a lot of sound. And an airplane engine is an airplane engine, you have to look at the source to confirm it is hostile or friendly.

Gives you a better SA somehow but often you end up dodging friendlies....

It gets even worse when gv's are around. I hear any gv engine beyond Icon range ( that is 1,5 k I believe? ), mixed up with airplane engines, guns on ground and in the air is a lot of information to handle.

In the end it means to sit down and finetune all available sounds in game to get the information you need. Also you have a lot to fiddle regarding surround angles, speaker volumes and so on.

Does anyone have a surround headset who would like to share his advanced sound settings? Would be appreciated!

To be continued.

I think this is because you have multipliers in your trackir, your head movement is exaggerated 'on screen' so the sound doesn't match your head position.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: Bizman on July 02, 2014, 10:09:02 AM
I think this is because you have multipliers in your trackir, your head movement is exaggerated 'on screen' so the sound doesn't match your head position.
I don't think so. If there's someone on your six and you look left, you should hear him with your left ear no matter which method you're using for turning your virtual head. A thumb on a hat switch is just as exaggerating as a boosted head movement.

The multipliers in TrackIr would cause issues only if also your headset had movement sensors and if the sensors were out of sync.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: guncrasher on July 02, 2014, 01:13:45 PM
If somebody is on my six and I look left I hear them on my left ear.   I think some people may hear sound from different directions and they move their heart to fast or use the thumb switches too fast then there's that small delay between what you see and what you hear.



semp
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: Chalenge on July 03, 2014, 03:06:33 AM
Best use I came up with for Turtle Beach Surround was as a projectile as featured for hit #6 & #7 for tanks.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: McShark on July 03, 2014, 07:41:31 AM
Best use I came up with for Turtle Beach Surround was as a projectile as featured for hit #6 & #7 for tanks.

Did not try vehicles yet but I expect it to be good fun when you can pinpoint noises in a better way than simplified stereo.

The sound moves. I did a test on ( soooorrryyy  :D ) WarThunder, same issue. Looking straight I hear someone approach, look straight at bandit to identify, sound moves to front speaker.

Any of the Logitech 35 owners that can tell of similar experience?
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on July 03, 2014, 09:39:54 AM
Did not try vehicles yet but I expect it to be good fun when you can pinpoint noises in a better way than simplified stereo.

The sound moves. I did a test on ( soooorrryyy  :D ) WarThunder, same issue. Looking straight I hear someone approach, look straight at bandit to identify, sound moves to front speaker.

Any of the Logitech 35 owners that can tell of similar experience?

The sound is supposed to move to the front speaker when you look at the enemy. Your front faces the enemy where the sound originates from.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: Bizman on July 03, 2014, 01:38:20 PM
The sound is supposed to move to the front speaker when you look at the enemy. Your front faces the enemy where the sound originates from.
Exactly. That's what would happen in real life, too. If you turn your nose towards a sound source, you'd hear it with both ears. I somewhat understand your concern, though, because IRL you can also just move your eyes to find something you hear in which case your ears won't move, nor does the sound direction. That feature hasn't been modelled in games yet. If you have problems with that, imagine you'd be using binoculars all of the time while playing.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: 715 on July 03, 2014, 02:27:37 PM
I think he wants it to work like a backup camera in a car.  He hears something behind him and when he looks at the "backup camera", i.e. the view behind him, he still wants the sound to come from behind him.

That's not how it is set up.  It is simulating you turning your body and head around to look behind you, so under that scenario the sound properly should come from in "front", i.e. what you're looking at, as everyone has pointed out.  Obviously, you can't really turn around as you'd be looking at the back wall and not your display monitor.  It's a frame of reference thing.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on July 04, 2014, 03:16:33 AM
I think he wants it to work like a backup camera in a car.  He hears something behind him and when he looks at the "backup camera", i.e. the view behind him, he still wants the sound to come from behind him.

That's not how it is set up.  It is simulating you turning your body and head around to look behind you, so under that scenario the sound properly should come from in "front", i.e. what you're looking at, as everyone has pointed out.  Obviously, you can't really turn around as you'd be looking at the back wall and not your display monitor.  It's a frame of reference thing.

This is exactly what I meant by TrackIR having a multiplier. What you see doesn't match your natural head movement and hearing.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: McShark on July 07, 2014, 09:53:43 AM
This is exactly what I meant by TrackIR having a multiplier. What you see doesn't match your natural head movement and hearing.

Good thoughts alltogether here,

My "multiplier" is set at 0.5 as I am not to keen at jumping all over the place to keep my eyes on a bandit.

As I can cover my screen with my eyes I do not have to move a lot, only looking like over your wing or 5 and 7 oclock positions really make you "move" . Also, moving too much really kills any gunnery ....

The sound yet seems to be setup in not very fine steps. Look at your 1:30 position and sounds moves to 3 oclock more or less. I would have expected a bit more "finetuning"

I do believe they are available ( a program that comes with it ) but it has like thousands of options so it's gonna take a while to get it figured out I am afraid.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: Reschke on July 13, 2014, 07:34:58 PM
I personally love my Sennheiser PC360 headset; the sound quality is great and the microphone is clear and doesn't garble when I am talking; unless I am drunk. Since I don't play flight sims as much anymore I love the sound within ArmA3 and using the JSRS sound mod there. It allows me to track all the sounds of the battlefield without having to turn my head to tell that the snap crack of a round hitting close to me is coming from my right or left and the same for the crunch of feet on gravel when laying up in ambush for an enemy squad walking down a path or road.
Title: Re: headphones
Post by: zack1234 on July 14, 2014, 01:45:24 AM
Info about Trck Ir Multiplyer was interesting :old:

When someone explains obvious its always a good thing :old: