Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: artik on July 10, 2014, 09:03:25 AM

Title: Bombing sights for fighter or CAS aircraft development.
Post by: artik on July 10, 2014, 09:03:25 AM

During WW2 the most accurate bombing was due using almost 90 degree dive put the cross on the target release bomb at around ~3,000 feet or less (depending on type of bomber/guts) and the job is done.

Today, if you want to drop a simple gravity bomb there are many complex computerized aids to help you like CCIP that would display an exact location of the bomb you are dropping (+/-). The system is considered very accurate, not as a smart bomb but good enough for practical reasons. Of course there are more bombing techniques and aids to do the job like toss bombing, rockets and more.

The HUD side had developed from a simple "cross" or "dot" to something much more accurate. It happened during long period of time. For example Skyhawks and Phantoms had some advanced systems and yet F-16's sight was considered a major leap forward in accuracy.

What I can't find is any kind of a reference to the development of sights, HUDs and others during that period. There is very little information about them.

Does anybody has a good reference about the sights and HUD development history or can share the information?

Thanks

Title: Re: Bombing sights for fighter or CAS aircraft development.
Post by: Puma44 on July 10, 2014, 10:00:15 AM

The USAF F-4s had "iron sights" that were used as the primary aiming resource.  

(http://i906.photobucket.com/albums/ac270/puma44/82a3ee8312841ce9c48983eefe0d8208_zps6e014be1.jpg)

There was also the Dive Toss system that had a less than sterling reputation and wasn't depended upon by air crews.

http://combatace.com/topic/36842-let’s-get-serious-about-dive-toss/

Title: Re: Bombing sights for fighter or CAS aircraft development.
Post by: artik on July 10, 2014, 03:33:39 PM

Thanks for the link. To summarize what is written:

In short Phantoms had a dive toss system that allowed to calculate a drop point bases on a radar and exact target sighting: popup, look straight to the target, lock radar (measure distance, etc) press the pickle and pull until the bombs released automatically. The system considered very problematic in operational use and wasn't used in reality. Only after Vietnam en efficient methods were found to use it as sort of "stand-off" weapon.

What is interesting, that from what I've read about Yom Kippur War, the Phantoms and Skyhawks actually trained to use these system to smash the SAMs. i.e. the bomb-tossing was one of the procedures in the SAM destruction plan used by Skyhawks and IIRC Phantoms as well.

The operation failed but for quite different reasons.

Title: Re: Bombing sights for fighter or CAS aircraft development.
Post by: Puma44 on July 10, 2014, 06:03:06 PM

You are welcome.  The dive toss system was very maintenance intensive to keep "tuned up" and rarely worked as advertised.  As such, most of us wouldn't ever trust it even when dropping BDU-33s for quarters on the range, let alone live bombs in close contact.  A lot of times it would drop them in pretty nicely and then on the next pass with the same parameters it would throw one out in the south forty.   :x Not much of a confidence builder.   :salute

Title: Re: Bombing sights for fighter or CAS aircraft development.
Post by: bustr on July 11, 2014, 04:57:29 PM

You can contact this gunsight collector at his email addy.

aircraftgunsights@gmail.com

Otherwise, if you search game blogs, fighter\bomber group sites, and historical queries for specific sights and HUDS. You can go the same route I went with for years doing the research on all of the gunsights used in ww2 to create my historic packs.

A4 SkyHawk went from pure reflector to a HUD style in the A4M.

Here is a picture of one type of early gunsight used in A4D SkyHawks. It was made by the Librascope Co. which provided most of the reflector gunsights for A4D.

(http://www.warbirdsite.com/Skyhawkgunsight.jpg)

A later semi HUD type gunsight.

(http://a4skyhawk.org/sites/a4skyhawk.org/files/images/imported/2c/a4parts/bullseye.jpg)

Link here for good A4M HUD pictures.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/awa01/001-100/awa026-A-4M/00B.shtm