Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: 49MERLIN on July 21, 2014, 02:01:10 AM
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This is an excerpt from a proposal I previously sent to AH High Command. I wanted to get some opinions on my ideas.
First Person Shooter
Section 6: First Person Shooter (Rudimentary Concepts)
First Person Shooter
The introduction of a First Person Shooter option to AHII would introduce amazing new tactical options to the WWII simulator! The operational options open to the player are almost endless and would be exponentially enhancing to all players in their use and in defending against them. The ease at which this type of system could be implemented seems almost mind numbing.
Adding ground level individually combat effective troops into the game as if they were ground vehicles could lead to increased player satisfaction with the addition of new tactical arenas of war, increased player base due to the new form of warfare, and the creation of entirely infantry driven player initiated squads! Knowing that graphics are not as strong a driver as arena ability and options it is hard to see where expanding this seemingly simple and greatly enhancing option to the simulator could be bad.
Infantry
Infantry, in a rudimentary yet very capable form, already exists within AHII. The bailed pilot already acts as a perfect infantryman; needing only a few new guns to render, and a few new ways to enter the game. Like the pilot, all infantry would be killed with one shot.
It would seem that the pilot is already capable of walking, running, and stopping; as well as aiming and firing a weapon. He has also already been rendered. (However a new rendering may be able to be easily made from the uniform of the troops in the hanger.) New guns would need to be rendered and added to the pilot model to account for different types of weapons sets, and the pistol could be set as a secondary weapon. One other option that may be introduced, but is not necessarily needed would be the ability for the pilot/infantryman to kneel. Much like flaps are actuated in a plane the kneeling position would merely be the same view as standing, but from the waist level and could be toggled with the “k” key. This would serve only to give the infantryman a lower profile and enhanced game-play. In reality nothing on the pilot/infantryman needs to move except the right arm.
The Infantryman would act as though he were a GV in relation to another player’s ability to view him considering icons and ranges when spawned from the hanger. Weapons would be selected by the “1, 2, or 3” keys to mimic the positions of a GV while only changing the gun in the hand considering the view of the player. The infantryman’s arm would act as it does now mimicking the turret barrel of a GV.
Hanger Options
The infantryman would be accessible from the hanger and may be dependent upon the availability of barracks or the vehicle hanger at the spawning field. Once entering the hanger there would be an infantryman in view as a troop is currently rendered in the hanger, but he would be positioned in the middle of the hanger. There would also be different rows for primary, secondary, and tertiary weapon sets; of which the player may choose one from each as it is currently set up for most vehicles. (Basically the hanger view would have a troop where a plane usually is and the carts in the hanger would carry the weapons on carts like they do already.
Weapon Systems
Primary Weapons Set:
Rifle: Single shot bolt action with 5 shot bandolier X 12 for a total of 60 rounds (Should have a zoom option.)
Sub-machine Gun: Fully automatic fire with 50 round clip X 3, or 30 round clip X 5 for a total of 150 rounds (This weapon should NOT be allowed a
zoom option.)
Light Machine Gun: Fully automatic fire with 20 round magazine X 10 for a total of 200 rounds (Carrying this weapon should allow the user to ONLY
walk NOT run, or to only be able to fire from a kneeling position.)
Bazooka: 76mm AP round equivalent projectile – Fired like a rocket with a smoke trail – Site viewed through a blast shield – Capacity 5 rockets
Mortar: 60mm HE & Smoke rounds Qty: 20 HE / 5 Smoke – Would require the user to stop in order to fire, and may use range and bearing data to fire
if the coding will allow. Player may also use the .target command.
Composition B: High explosive pack with 1K bomb equivalent power and blast radius – Placed on the ground next to target and detonated later by the
user or possibly by timer. Qty: 2 Packs
Secondary Weapons Set:
Pistol: Semi-automatic fire with 15 rounds
Knife: Extending from the hand and able to kill by touching the point to another infantryman.
Sword (?): Similar to the knife, but longer. Basically only for Japanese infantry.
Tertiary Weapons Set:
Grenade – Fragmentary – 30ft blast diameter- would have the ability/power to disable GV tracks & engines. Launched similarly to a smoke grenade from
an M4-75, but with 3 to 4 times the power/distance
Grenade - Smoke - Launched similarly to a smoke grenade from an M4-75, but with 3 to 4 times the power/distance
Radio – Would have no actual function, but would allow the infantryman’s position to appear to friendly players on the clipboard map via a dot as if he were
a plane, therefore giving him the ability to easily guide friendly players to his position.
Binoculars - Would be viewed as if you were seeing binoculars viewed in a movie and would have the ability to zoom and range find.
The ability to choose from so many different weapons would allow infantry squads to form with the capability to perform various rolls. Ideally you would have 2 riflemen men, 1 sub-machine gunner, 1 light machine gunner, and an anti-tank man or a mortar man. One of these men would carry a radio to aid in drawing support. Having various weapon sets would also allow the individual to spawn with the weapon of his choice to complete his mission such as; a bazooka to eliminate spawn camping tanks, composition B to destroy tanks or buildings, barreled weapons to defend & attack map rooms, or mortars to bring in heavy standoff support. The possibilities are almost endless!
Implementation
Infantry could be quickly implemented in to the simulator using the aforementioned weapon sets. Infantry would act as if they were a very small GV when spawned and would maintain GV icon range determiners and GV spawn points. I would recommend placing the Infantry option in the vehicle hanger and awarding GV perks for actions taken. Furthermore different types of infantry could be implemented in the future to represent different forces (nationally specific infantry), uniforms (skins), and weapon types. Meaning you could someday go to the hanger and choose an American, British, German, or Japanese infantryman with the applicable uniforms & weapons for that country.
In order to capture a map room 10 troops must be safely delivered, but this rule does not apply to 10 bailed pilots. Introducing infantry will require this rule to apply to infantry too or any combination of troops & infantry together.
It would seem that the troops are programmed to “home in on” or run directly to the map room when within a certain distance. It would be nice to see an option where the troops would “lock on” an infantryman much like a player can slave to another player in auto wing-man mode. If this were the case many new and awesome tactical options would be available to the community. For instance; a troop carrying vehicle could deploy troops to a forwardly deployed infantryman, or company of infantry, and an individual could then “grab” (by hitting “CTRL M” for Muster) the troops and have them “lock on” to him if he were within a certain distance from them. The infantry would then run to the player and follow his actions. Stop, walk, and run when he does, but would not fire or engage the enemy. At this point the player would be able to release the troops on his own within their map room “homing” radius, (by hitting “CTRL A” for attack), and sending them to the map room. The “Grab” option would override the map room “homing” of the troops, should the troops need to be recalled to a player, or if they were deployed to a player too far from the map room initially.
One other interesting option to consider in the future would be to allow a player to join a troop carrying aircraft as if he were a gunner, yet have him bail out of the aircraft as a paratrooper instead of a pilot. This “Paratrooper” would carry a submachine gun, a pistol, and possibly a few grenades. Having this ability would allow the gunner/jump-master of a C-47 to bailout with the troops and engage the Muster control (CTRL M) slaving the troops to him after landing. The paratrooper would carry a sub-machine gun to maintain historical accuracy and eliminate his zoom option, but would still be sufficiently armed to protect himself and the troops in his command.
Would greatly appreciate your comments.
<S> 49MERLIN
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As a real life Infantrymen.....NO, no reason to have Infantry in this game.
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(20 rounds plus carry the 60....dear god)
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No reason NOT to have infantry; and yeah the # of rounds on the light machine gun should be changed, but I did not mean the M-60 I was thinking more along the lines of a BAR
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wish granted...............http://www.callofduty.com/ghosts
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If we where to add arty... Then they could be used as forward observers :D
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It sounds nice and all but in the end it would spread out the playerbase even more and not have that big of an impact on the overall scale.
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-1000 this is not a consle game-x-box-playstation etc.
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As a real life Infantrymen.....NO, no reason to have Infantry in this game.
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(20 rounds plus carry the 60....dear god)
Welcome 49POTW! :rofl
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No reason NOT to have infantry; and yeah the # of rounds on the light machine gun should be changed, but I did not mean the M-60 I was thinking more along the lines of a BAR
I was talking about the 60 mm mortar.....Have you ever carried 10 of those rounds 8 kilometers with all the rest of you gear? It sucks.
Guys running around as Infantry would just take numbers away from the already low numbers in tank and furballs......there is your reason for no infantry.
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No FPS in my opinion.
We could deploy AI troops from vehicles with differing missions and targets....... But I think that is as far as it should go
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BiG -1
The AH is about realistic combat simulation. You can make it somehow close to reality with a stick - that is plane controls. But you can't simulate infantry man with stick. Being an infantry man is actually much more complex task than just running with weapons and shooting. Consider: a typical infantry man trainings can take up to year and a half and it isn't about "shooting" and having good fitness (the way you represented it).
It is far more complicated - that way beyond reasonable simulation. But the bigger problem for "simulation" is that a human body has much more freedom of movement than 4 axis stick and throttle. So any infantry would end-up an arcade game as GVing today that is already 90% arcade but gives some stuff to shoot at from above ;)
Another problem is much simpler, an infantry man is too weak even against basic GV like Jeep or M3 unless ambushes it. Now against aircraft it is just a canon fodder.
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Since adding player controlled infantry is one of the things HiTech has stated he would like to be added to the game, hopefully it comes sooner rather than later but I suspect the development would be a rather large undertaking.
ack-ack
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Since adding player controlled infantry is one of the things HiTech has stated he would like to be added to the game, hopefully it comes sooner rather than later but I suspect the development would be a rather large undertaking.
ack-ack
When I first heard about a FPS like environment I envisioned something like Battlefield 3 style combat. Being able to exit your now destroyed or disabled tank and charge to the enemies tank and 'take him out'. Or paratroop from c47s and take bases etc.
Mixed feelings on it, not sure if the FPS would take over the AH of now. Or if it would bolster it and they would 'grow and evolve together'.
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As a teaser or alpha test of concept.
Make it possible to load 10 AI troops and one player controlled troop who is the last trooper out of the door. The player controlled troop can run around the town and be window dressing with a Thompson and 45 or, run to the map room and make sure it's clear of pilots. And if the flag capture goes south. Yes, even run over to the runway and frag spawning aircraft. And if some genius puts up a 100 C47 mission, well, the FPS will probably go to crap while 100 players run over to the airfield and grief it....like that would ever happen. Would certainty confuse the auto ack.
Give the trooper very little ability other than running and shooting his popgun. His exit from the C47 or troop vehicle will be controlled by the driver or pilot. Yes, and if the driver or pilot gets a hair up his whatzits and kicks all 11 out 10 miles from the base. He can walk home or EF. No more frustrating than say the proof of concept 88s we use with that stone age gunsight.
Then Hitech would have a minimum impact player controlled trooper to tinker with at his leisure, while giving us something strange to greif each other with.
Oh! And the whiny wishes for more, more, more, development on the trooper with more, more, more weapon options, and general forum rants about those bullhocky gosh darned greifing terdling troopers ruining real game play.
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As a teaser or alpha test of concept.
Make it possible to load 10 AI troops and one player controlled troop who is the last trooper out of the door. The player controlled troop can run around the town and be window dressing with a Thompson and 45 or, run to the map room and make sure it's clear of pilots. And if the flag capture goes south. Yes, even run over to the runway and frag spawning aircraft. And if some genius puts up a 100 C47 mission, well, the FPS will probably go to crap while 100 players run over to the airfield and grief it....like that would ever happen. Would certainty confuse the auto ack.
Give the trooper very little ability other than running and shooting his popgun. His exit from the C47 or troop vehicle will be controlled by the driver or pilot. Yes, and if the driver or pilot gets a hair up his whatzits and kicks all 11 out 10 miles from the base. He can walk home or EF. No more frustrating than say the proof of concept 88s we use with that stone age gunsight.
Then Hitech would have a minimum impact player controlled trooper to tinker with at his leisure, while giving us something strange to greif each other with.
Oh! And the whiny wishes for more, more, more, development on the trooper with more, more, more weapon options, and general forum rants about those bullhocky gosh darned greifing terdling troopers ruining real game play.
:rofl
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Since adding player controlled infantry is one of the things HiTech has stated he would like to be added to the game, hopefully it comes sooner rather than later but I suspect the development would be a rather large undertaking.
ack-ack
Yep. :) So those who -1 this, AH will get FPS. It will happen and you will like it. :D
If anything, I rather HiTech worked on the Naval aspect of the game before tossing his cookies into the FPS basket. We have Air and a bit of Land, but Sea is so badly lacking that you could almost omit it from advertising. Sure you have the PT boat, but that's it for player controlled ships. The Task Groups can only be marginally controlled, which any maneuvers applies only to the entire fleet, and really they just serve as nothing more than a mobile base and artillery platform. I am hoping that HiTech can push a more defined Naval aspect of the game before War Thunder finally gets into it. We have seen the water he intends to put out with the new engine, so I will bet my cookies that is what will be worked on next. :aok
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Yep. :) So those who -1 this, AH will get FPS. It will happen and you will like it. :D
If anything, I rather HiTech worked on the Naval aspect of the game before tossing his cookies into the FPS basket. We have Air and a bit of Land, but Sea is so badly lacking that you could almost omit it from advertising. Sure you have the PT boat, but that's it for player controlled ships. The Task Groups can only be marginally controlled, which any maneuvers applies only to the entire fleet, and really they just serve as nothing more than a mobile base and artillery platform. I am hoping that HiTech can push a more defined Naval aspect of the game before War Thunder finally gets into it. We have seen the water he intends to put out with the new engine, so I will bet my cookies that is what will be worked on next. :aok
I agree with this.
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-1 go play WW2 online or WOT or any of the other FPS games.
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Yep. :) So those who -1 this, AH will get FPS. It will happen and you will like it. :D
If anything, I rather HiTech worked on the Naval aspect of the game before tossing his cookies into the FPS basket. We have Air and a bit of Land, but Sea is so badly lacking that you could almost omit it from advertising. Sure you have the PT boat, but that's it for player controlled ships. The Task Groups can only be marginally controlled, which any maneuvers applies only to the entire fleet, and really they just serve as nothing more than a mobile base and artillery platform. I am hoping that HiTech can push a more defined Naval aspect of the game before War Thunder finally gets into it. We have seen the water he intends to put out with the new engine, so I will bet my cookies that is what will be worked on next. :aok
Agreed with the latter part :D
I'm not sure on the FPS part, simply because it could (and most likely would) take most if not all of the resources that HTC has to develop the fps. I think the FPS would be more like unturned (akin to that of minecraft) than anything close to a decent graphics FPS (call of duty 4 for example). I am not trying to undermine HTC's capabilities, but just asking questions or concerns that have surfaced since thinking on an FPS element in AH. To what extent would FPS be in AH, would I be able to bail my plane, take a pre-determined (or chosen by me) firearm and storm an enemy tower to take a base? Or would I be able to man an LVT get out of it and take control of a port? I can see a c47 deal with 1-5 slots being reserved for players who could bail and take a base. But there is also a huge amount of data that would have to be configured. How do FPS players interact with those in the air, those on the ground? How much damage does an FPS do to a tiger 1 or 2 tank? How do those in the air spot infantry on the ground?
I can already hear the whines of players 'just cruising in a tank or plane' and "randomly" die from an infantry shooting their rifle or bazooka at them and getting a kill. While I do like all the possibilities of the above, I am unsure as how that would assimilate into an Aces High environment, and whether the GV, Plane, Gun and Naval parts could adapt and be 'as one' with the FPS, or if it would be a slug-fest on which is better and who should get what (sort of a microcosm of what we have now in a way).
Again, I do support FPS, but I think if it is done it should be baby steps, see how everyone likes it. If few like it, then polish it and observe. If many do, then go all for it. But I agree that naval combat should be polished and improved before any FPS element is introduced.
:salute
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:aok
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Not a hi-jack, but it is relevant to the topic. :D
Friend introduced me to a game today that has been very fun to play. This is basically what I was thinking of when the FPS element was introduced. Of course, no FTP elements.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obC-BbHSrq8
FPS, Plane and GV warfare, no naval that I am aware of.
Those who are interested in trying it I warn you, there are no icons for enemies, so you need to move your screen a little closer. :neener:
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Not hard to imagine this FPS style action happening in our Town and at fields in the next 18 months with a limited number of trooper types. First we need the new game version and the rounds of bug patches to stabilize it. But, then the question becomes, at what point does this game become an idiocrasy? And $14.95 a month is rejected by the kiddies because they can FPS shoot each other everywhere else on the Internet for free.
It's a given you could fill the MA up with 2 weeker "freebie" kiddies running around in FPS mode by word of mouth advertising with the word "free". Then greifing the "paying customers" on the runway trying to take off for an air combat fight. Forcing subscription players to waste the limited time they are paying for, just to do vermin disposal to get to a furball. This would kill subscriptions.
And then it would be "Welcome to Aces High the Idiocracy". Sure, the DA furball lake would fill up for a little while. But, that is not the Aces High unique air combat MA experience being paid for.
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I believe the relative ranges involving defensive ack and your standard infantry rifles make getting close enough to a field for 'griefing,' as you call it, a very much one-sided situation. Even the shoulder fired rockets and PIATs are limited to about 500 yards, while most infantry rifles would be hard pressed to any accuracy beyond 3-400 yards even with a scoped rifle.
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The way Heroes & Generals works with the way infantry interacts with planes (which are higher up on the 'scale'), is being able to choose the type of ammunition you carry. I fired at planes and it would indicate that armor was too thick (at the bottom of the plane) but if they were foolish enough to dive on me and show me their canopy, I could get a few rounds in there. But I never got a successful "battlefield 3/4 style kill", so it's not going to be like BF3/4 where you can snipe helicopter or jet pilots from 1/2 way across the map.
I think if an fps element was added, that only AA guns could do serious damage (like they do now), and infantry sub-machine guns or rifles wouldn't do serious damage to planes, so as not to grief pilots. For I do understand that. I feel sort of in the middle, I like the naval aspect to be (submarines and volrons ideas in another wish thread), GVs, Planes, and although the minority, Gun, Ship or Field. Then to add an FPS element to that, I get to hear those wishes too. :rolleyes:
I like all those perspectives, but if you give one more power, the others become weaker or complain more.
If the time ever comes for HTC to make an FPS element, I have some interesting ideas for it that would use what is already here as a foundation, and just add a few things here and there that the FPS players could interact with, that would include them, but not exclude anyone else (or give the FPS an edge either).
:salute
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I like the idea of IFVs spawning with joined infantry deployed around the vehicle, with the vehicle engine off to listen for campers. This would allow any shoulder fired rockets or PIAT type weapons to come into play and prevent a single shot from removing the danger for campers. Airfields that have enemy infantry nearby (not in the town) could also have a separate alarm to distinguish the two. Infantry could also booby-trap supplies and engage the Storch types. I would like to see tank commanders added. Not to kill a vehicle by shooting the commander, but to wound him and force a retreat sounds like an opportunity to bust up a camp.
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After an airfield has been de-acked, pilots over the years have bailed and fragged just spawned pilots of planes through the canopy from a few feet away. We would have an idiocrasy of 2 weeker FPS kiddies once it was figured out you can de-ack a field with fighters.
None of you ever present the unintended consequential down sides to your mental monuments to yourselves. If I can see this exploit, two week freebie kiddies will see it also. That's what they are good at in all those other "free" FPS games. Then think of a bunch of bored vets looking for some fun who really know the game mechanics....
Just make a list of all the nasty, LAZY, self serving, underhanded things you could do with this, and you have a pretty good list of the real unintended consequences to the game community. But, then if you are Hitech, he's stuck having to make that list to see if he even wants to get involved.
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The sky is falling bustr. The game you know must evolve. Your fears stem from past experience without the benefit of knowing the changes that are coming. Why do you chose to forecast gloom? It is precisely the same mindset that prevents us from having really good experiences in the MA, because the very first time a base gets taken Ch2 lights up with "we suck." Channel your experience to evolve with the changes that come, instead of prematurely giving up.
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First of all I would like to thank everyone for their comments on my ideas, they are greatly appreciated and I think most people understand where I was going with the idea. One other thing you should know is that I would love to see the naval aspect of the game improved first as well. I should have mentioned this before, but the excerpt that this infantry idea was taken from was a forty one page quasi-code brief of which the infantry composed about a page and a half. The rest of the brief was focused on how to implement various ship types, (combat & noncombat), from the view of the player with the understanding of the basic framework already establish.
A Response:
I NEVER intended that anyone would ever assimilate this idea with a Battlefield 3 or 4 type experiences. I literally meant an infantryman that would look and act just like a bailed pilot with maybe the ability to kneel in order to reduce his profile. The only differences would be different guns/equipment extended from the "pilot's" arm, no enemy icon on a "pilot" until 500ft, and maybe a few minor others that are not even worth writing about.
To those who think that an FPS experience in AH would flood AH with infantry I would imagine a player may have more fun just going outside and shooting imaginary friends with sticks; that would probably be more fun, have better mobility, and better imagery.
Yes, some players would be pulled from GVs & Planes to play as infantry, but I believe this would be only occasionally, and would serve more to pull players to the game through player options than would cause players to quit due to bad game experiences.
I imagine that being an infantryman would be much like driving a PT boat. It would be more of a novelty used for specific occasions rather than as a major offensive force.
I envision a scenario where an infantryman would be killed instantly with a shot to the head or torso, and would bleed out as if pilot wounded if hit in an extremity. This would make them very vulnerable; so vulnerable in fact that if you whine because one shot you it would damn near be your fault. Being realistic, anything .50 caliber and above would be an instant kill making it incredibly easy to eliminate infantry.
I don't know about you but I can not imagine a player with a gun and no speed or armor making a drastic difference in the major war effort. If you have ever taken a base, or done anything of note with a bailed pilot, please find me in the MA I would love to meet you because you are surely a GOD. I can't even get a lightly armored GV (Jeep, M3, M18) next to a base without getting killed, much less on foot. I'm not sure that even a team of 5 to 10 infantry could do much to a base, but they could cause enough confusion in the enemy to make it fun for all playing. Being realistic... If you were really worried about being killed while spawning an aircraft at a base it would take multiple de-ackers, with players who know what they are doing and would most likely entail a hell of a long walk for any attacking infantry. Even if the infantrymen took a ride in a GV to the base from a friend you would still find yourself in a situation where multiple GVs would be around a de-acked base. This is a situation you should not take off from anyway, but lets say you did and got killed. You could then launch from the hanger, bail out, and go shoot the guy who just shot you with your pistol, or better yet spawn as an infantryman and shoot him in the head with your rifle.
People surely would not play AH for the FPS capabilities as so many others have stated the FPS experience can be found for free elsewhere with better functionality & graphics. On the other hand I believe the current and future players who view AH as a very capably WWII simulator, and not solely an aerial combat Sim, would greatly appreciate the added spectrum of game-play and options for attack. For those who think that it will make it less realistic please tell me a war that has ever been won in reality where there have been no boots on the ground. Yes, the FPS would be arcade like, but that would be intentional, and would further reduce the hardcore FPS players.
In general, after examining the pros & cons (even the ones you think I haven't thought of) I am of the opinion that an arcade style limited ability infantryman would be a positive addition to the game for many well thought out reasons. There would be few things that an infantryman could do that can not already be accomplished by some other means in the game already and would therefore be no more a detrimental addition to the game than say a Jeep or a Storch.
One other thing, just so everyone is clear on this; I do not think that my ideas are monumental, spectacular, or better than anyone else. I am completely aware that there have been countless others with this idea or ideas like it over the years. Please forgive me for not researching and scouring the former years worth of wishlist posts which I'm sure address this topic. I merely intended to get the communities opinion on what my RUDIMENTARY ideas concerning this topic were.
Once again your input is greatly appreciated either for or against. It would however be nice to see the Debbie Downers smile a little more in life!!!