Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: CRASH on October 23, 2001, 10:00:00 AM
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This post was originally a reply for a post introducing the idea of a rolling plane set. Given the additional ideas I thought it warrented it's own thread.
I thnink it's an excellent idea(rolling plane/perk set). I, for one, think the MA has gotten completely boring, even with the recent release of 1.08. I dont play 1/10th the time I used to and I'm a HUGE fan of flight sims. This is hands down the absolute best game I've ever played on a computer, it's a damn shame it's become such a bore unnecessarily. Apparently, I'm not the only one who feels like this, 90% of my squad doesn't play anymore either and we've been very active in MMOG's since AW first went to a windows version. Most of us have spent years now in one sim or another flyin' our p51's against the horde's of spit drivers. It's gotten boring.
What's the solution you ask? Well, in my view I'd like to see this type of a rolling plane set introduced along with a two sided map representing say the European theatre. I wanna fly the historical matchups some. I want to get out there with my flight of 15 or 20 p51b's and mix it up with a like number of 109's and fw's.
Maybe next month do the same thing in the pacific theatre for a week. Maybe, during prime time we could have a trainer or AH staffer post historical strategic mission for each side with extra perks offered for participation (although I think participation would be high without the incentive).
Yeah, Yeah, I know..fly the scenarios you say. Well, they just dont come along that often, are cumbersome to organize and difficult to schedule time in advance. One has to be willing to alter ones life schedule in advance to make time for a game....thats a little too much of a commitment for many of us who simply fly when we find we have the free time. Fly the Combat arena? Well, fine, but there's no numbers there, not because players dont like the idea but because most people go where the numbers are to get in a few quick fights before the wife comes home or their favorite tv show comes on at 10 o'clock or they simply dont have the patience to spend lots of time looking for a fight. I think given the chance most people would apreciate the chance to participate in this kind of historical play occasionally.
Could I be accused of trying to force other players into my game? Sure, but the fact is that we've all been playing the MA game for years now and it's gotten stale. Historical terrains and matchups isn't too much to ask for one week a month. Hell, we could even test it out with just one weekend and see how people like it.
Technically the game is absolutely fantastic, none better, it's time to put all this potential to good use.
CRASH
[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: CRASH ]
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i agree to a certaina extent crash.I also love the CT arena when it has the numbers and i tried my best to support it, often sitting in there alone for an hour or so at a time!
I want exactly the sort of thing you are asking for but im not so sure now that what i want is what the majority want,but i do think HTC gave us an impossible task by just putting the CT up and leaving it to us players to try to make the numbers when we are all on at completely different times and see the theatre empty and so go MA.
1 day a week where CT only is up would solve this but its unfair to force players to fly the way we like i think.
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"..i do think HTC gave us an impossible task by just putting the CT up and leaving it to us players to try to make the numbers..."
Really. They should have forced the majority in there to play the way they don't want to by shutting down the MA.
For the record, I enjoyu the CT more than the MA but no by a whole lot. I'm not bored with either. But over the years the main theme running behind the requests for historical arenas is "I'm bored playing this way. Please change it so I can play that way and also make it so others have to play my way now too."
"Axis vs Allies", "WW2 Arenas" and HA/CT's have been failures be it in AW, WB's or here in AH because of the players, not really the setups. Most people do not want to give up their N1K2's, C-Hogs, Spit IX's, P-51D's or any other available plane choice for a small and very limited aircraft selection. Perhaps if HTC added some 1.08 strat to the CT things could change there but right now it's just a constant furball between Dover and Calais. Even that can be enjoyable when there are 20 folks or more playing in (mostly due to the settings for radar and icons which are different from the MA) but that hasn't been seen in a LONG time.
All IMO of course...
Westy
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Why? We've been forced into an unorganized MA for years and people are have left because it's just the same old thing and no one at HT seems to care enough to give it a shot. I'm not advocating that we make a permanent change, I'm just saying give it a try for a weekend or so, if people like it make it a regular event, say 1 week a month or even 1 weekend a month. What do we have to lose? If it's unpopular we just dont do it anymore. I think the community would accept it as a short, welcome break from the standard fair.
CRASH
Originally posted by hazed-:
"but its unfair to force players to fly the way we like i think."
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One has to be willing to alter ones life schedule in advance to make time for a game....thats a little too much of a commitment for many of us who simply fly when we find we have the free time.
Exactly. Therefore I would like to have every aircraft available when I logon. I believe the CT was offered to help those with a problem with historical match ups. If it’s not going as planned that is not a reason to change the MA into the CT. I’m sure it has a following and a lot of folks probably like to fly in there and would more often if the numbers supported it.
The problem is, the fodder like me, doesn’t care about a historical arena. I just want to get into a fight. Now, with that said, the TOD’s that I have attended have been extremely exciting. I missed a chance on the current TOD frame 1 to fly a Tempest but was available to fly a B17 in the second one. I’m not a bomber pilot. The pucker factor, the challenge, the anxiety of just knowing 262’s where just in the area, it was all very well spent and exciting 2 hours. I do not however want to logon to the MA for a week and only have similar situations available to me.
Zippatuh
[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: Zippatuh ]
[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: Zippatuh ]
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hazed should have said it's unfair to force the MAJORITY of players to fly the way the MINORITY want to fly.
Personally, I'm in that minority. However, the CT is utterly boring after a few flights. It's nothing more than a dueling arena with a planeset and historical terrain. There's no impact from JABO or buffing. You can't advance the war, it's based on when Pyro decides to roll the planeset. Your actions mean nothing but getting perk points. Those of us that are in the minority realize this and want changes. Making those changes in the MA is NOT the way to go, in all fairness to the majority of AH paying customers.
Even though base capture in its current form is not what I want to see in the CT, I think that the CT should get the MA strat model (complete with trains and convoys.) As it is, I'm playing the MA (aside from TOD frames) because there's more to do than just furball. Maybe if the CT was just like the MA with a planeset (goons for both sides) and radar/icon changes, you'd find 30-50 people in there in peak times.
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Axis vs allies arena's failed in AW because of the herd mentality that keeps people spewing into the arena with the most numbers. If you recall AW had quite a few arena's between the historical and and all of the old relaxed and full real variants.
As for it being just another furrball over the channel, well that's exactly what would happen if we didnt have either AH staff or trainers or even a designated CO posting strategic missions every hour. I'd be willing to do a tour doing that and I'm sure plenty of other people would as well. If you knew that the allies were gonna be comin' over the channel to blow up your hq or all of your depot's you might think twice about leaving them undefended to furball at 2000 ft over the channel, especially after the coastal base you've been launching from is destroyed and not likley to be up soon because your depots are gone and the radar's out. Most people furrball at low alt becuase it's a quick way into the action and there's absolutly no incentive to do otherwise. I think given the chance most would prefer some large scale squadron ops if they knew resistance was expected and a good fite would ensue.
Give history a chance.
CRASH
Originally posted by Westy MOL:
"..i do think HTC gave us an impossible task by just putting the CT up and leaving it to us players to try to make the numbers..."
Really. They should have forced the majority in there to play the way they don't want to by shutting down the MA.
For the record, I enjoyu the CT more than the MA but no by a whole lot. I'm not bored with either. But over the years the main theme running behind the requests for historical arenas is "I'm bored playing this way. Please change it so I can play that way and also make it so others have to play my way now too."
"Axis vs Allies", "WW2 Arenas" and HA/CT's have been failures be it in AW, WB's or here in AH because of the players, not really the setups. Most people do not want to give up their N1K2's, C-Hogs, Spit IX's, P-51D's or any other available plane choice for a small and very limited aircraft selection. Perhaps if HTC added some 1.08 strat to the CT things could change there but right now it's just a constant furball between Dover and Calais. Even that can be enjoyable when there are 20 folks or more playing in (mostly due to the settings for radar and icons which are different from the MA) but that hasn't been seen in a LONG time.
All IMO of course...
Westy
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Crash, I'd enjoy a weekend of a historical arena only. I'm not trying to sound anti-historical at all. Just pointing out the herd mentality is at work as well as people want to fly what ever and whenever. Hell, HTC coulnd't add killer sheep for one night (Con mission) without there being a literal riot in the MA and on the web boards. These are the same folks (but I'd bet there'd be more) who would have an aneurism if you took their fave ride away and made them fly historically.
I think getting strat into the CT would bring the numbers up in there which would suit those who have a taste for something different from a free-for-all MA.
Westy
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I'd be more in favor of a rotating ETO/PAC planeset thing similar to what we had in AW. There, when each camp rotated the map switched between ETO or PAC with the associated planeset. You could fly either axis or allied planes. That was cool enough. It kept the planes with somewhat similar performance matched up. There was a period when they rotated the planesets more still starting the first week of the month with early war planes. Next week '42-'43 planes etc. That didn't work out too well either. Couldn't quite get comfy in any one ride.
Problem with that was you had your luftwobble crowd that just wouldn't fly anything but an FW. So when a PAC camp came around they'd rather go fly AWRR than fly something like a 'Stang in FR PAC. Never much mattered to me. I flew a 109 there in ETO camps and learned the P-38 for PAC. Gave me an excuse to broaden my horizons and learn another plane. I admit being pretty happy one month when somehow the 109K fell thru the cracks and got left in the PAC rotation. Running down those pesky Hogs and dispatching them with the 30MM was so much fun. :D Bastards picked up on that after a few days and pulled the plug on the 109's hehe. :(
AvA arena in AW had a similar problem with attendance. I didn't fly there much but I had a great time when I did. Haven't been up much in AH lately but I remember a night a few weeks back in CT had a great time chasing a flight of B-26's--think you were there Hazed? CT should be a different kinda gameplay similar to a scenario IMO. I was tryin to get some help that night calling out your position every minute or so but everyone was interested in furballing. I ended up chasing you guys all the way in and out all by my lonesome. <shrug> Problem is folks treat it as if it were just a smaller MA. Long as that goes on CT will never work.
We'll come up with some kind of alternative I'm sure. MA can get kinda stale after a bit.
Drano
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I agree with Westy! How can someone come on here and pontificate on how everyone should be forced to play the way they want to play?
A Historical Arena might seem like fun to some, but over time, we have learned that the majority prefer the MA style of play. WB had a HA, and guess what? The dozen guys that liked it were constantly going to the MA begging others to play it with them. The CA in AH has been just about as successful.
We've been forced into an unorganized MA for years
[/b]
I am pretty sure nobody has come to anyones house and "forced" anyone to play in the MA. If you play in the MA, it is by your own chosing.
dago
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I'm not really sure why this isn't getting through to people. Having nothing but a free for all MA means that you are forced to play in that arena or forget AH all together. CT doesnt count due to herd mentality, people go where the numbers are thereby perpetuating the original. People fly late model A/C because they are the only thing thats competitive. If you didnt have to fight LA7's all the time then you wouldnt need overmodeled niks. A good fight between a p38 and a 109 variant is just as much fun as flyin' rocket powered niks.
Like I keep sayin', I'm not advocating we permantly change the MA tomorrow, all I'm saying is lets give it a try for a weekend and see what Joe AH driver thinks. Seems to me that many of the neysayers are simply afraid that the majority of players would welcome the change and it might be instituted 1 weekend a month.
"Nuther point, it's not just about what planes we get to fly, it's about using a historical map. Doesn't have to be a European/Battle of Britain setup, what about Africa, Eastern Front, Solomans? We've got some really incredible map makers here. It's also about having some volenteers post missions and offer organized play if people want. Hell, I'll take the first shift.
Just offering a CT with a limited plane set is just the MA with a limited plane set so why would anyone wanna fly there and limit themselves without any benifit?
CRASH
Originally posted by Dago:
I agree with Westy! How can someone come on here and pontificate on how everyone should be forced to play the way they want to play?
A Historical Arena might seem like fun to some, but over time, we have learned that the majority prefer the MA style of play. WB had a HA, and guess what? The dozen guys that liked it were constantly going to the MA begging others to play it with them. The CA in AH has been just about as successful.
I am pretty sure nobody has come to anyones house and "forced" anyone to play in the MA. If you play in the MA, it is by your own chosing.
dago
[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: CRASH ]
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Originally posted by CRASH:
I'm not really sure why this isn't getting through to people. Having nothing but a free for all MA means that you are forced to play in that arena or forget AH all together. CRASH
Ahh, but Crash isn't a free-for-all CT / RPS / AvA just like the MA, really?
The problem is the 'free for all' aspect if history is what you want. Historical gameplay would have to be exclusively mission based.
Now if you want the MA, but with an AvA alternating Euro/Pac setup, then OK. But to me that would just be the same old furball with much less choice and less varied combat. As far as I'm concerned, that makes it in no way more immersive (ahistorical gameplay) and much less interesting due to the limited selection of rides and opposition.
We've all gotten bored from time to time, but the game is what you make of it. Perhaps the MA concept hasn't progressed much from the early days, but there are reasons for that. Squad flying for me keeps my interest pretty high; be it attack missions, escort missions, all orchestrated through the planner so any fellow Bish can join. It's amazing how many people will join in if your squad can fill the first, say, 10 slots at a stroke... It may not have the atmosphere of a scenario, but it does the job for me. Note the use of the word 'Mission.' :)
Vladd
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Well, yes and no. This is how I envision it but I'm not necessarily married to one specific idea. I'll use Battle of Britain sceanrio because thats what I'm most familiar with it. On saturday morning Joe AH driver (here after referred to as joe) would log into Ah to find a historically correct map, I guess at half scale. Being the very start of the weekend and representing early war he'd have an early war european plane set to fly. Every half hour or hour depending on how things shake out a designated axis or allied CO would post missions for Joe to fly if joe chose to. The co may post several missions on the hour or half hour, say 1 for buff raid, 1 for fighter sweeps, 1 for rocket attack on French soil..ect. The CO's would guide the war by the missions they posted and would make every effort within reason to post missions requested by the joes flyin' for his side. So now, what has joe traded for enduring this limited plane set? Well, he's got missions posted for him that give him reason to fly (reason to fly is a biggie here). He knows that it's part of his co's master plan to win the war and that other joes are gonna help him. He's got all the wingman he could want and even if he gets shot down it's gonna be far more exciting than regular arena play because he has a mission to accomplish that may very well affect the missions the other joes are flyin' and so on. It's the difference between being part of a team and having a reason to fly compared to just flyin' around to pad your score. Now, if Joe's not the team player kinda guy he can just grab a ride and have at it. Maybe we could make it so that mission participants recieved extra perk points. Anyway, he knows that anything he takes will be reasonably competitive because the plane set will be set up prior to insure that.
As the weekend rolls on the plane set will advance and even if he hates the whole idea of it he wont have to wait long for a late model plane to show up. Hmm, maybe shortly into the weekend the axis have gained a foothold in england and are now advancing gv's on Londan in standard Blitzkrieg/combined arms fashion. How often does an organized large scale combined arms attack take place in the MA? Imagine 40 or so tanks advancing on a city covered by 40 or so fiters and ju88's mixed in with 80 or so spits and hurris trying to defend, now that's what I'd call a furball :) The posibilities are endless yet we refuse to even give it a try.
Anyway, during the course of the weekend the co's get feedback from the joes as to whether they'd like to see more of this as in say 1 weekend a month or not. Maybe we could just inform people to come to the bb to vote in a thread. If it's not a hit then we forget about it and drive on. I think the people are mostly in place already, it would be done by volenteers. I'd like to hear from HT on this to see if it's too much of burden for them to change terrains and stick around for technical questions regarding arena setup. I think the maps already exist for BoB if I'm not mistaken. Has the move to 108 negated the use of the existing maps? Again, some word from HT would be welcome. I think the only way to really test the idea is to do in the MA..Anyway, thats my pitch.
CRASH
Originally posted by Vladd:
Ahh, but Crash isn't a free-for-all CT / RPS / AvA just like the MA, really?
Vladd
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Originally posted by Westy MOL:
[QBMost people do not want to give up their N1K2's, C-Hogs, Spit IX's, P-51D's or any other available plane choice for a small and very limited aircraft selection.[/QB]
N1K2, C-Hog, Spit IX, P-51D - that's four planes. How can you get any more smaller and limited than that?
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When the CT first came out, there were about 40 people in there.
Still 120-130ppl in the MA.
They saw the numbers in the CT, they obviously disregarded it and went to the MA because that's what they find fun.
The only way you are going to get 100+ people in the CT is going to force people to fly in it, and even then I bet you'll only get 50 people... the rest will log off, I know I would.
-SW
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You cut off the part there where I included all planes with "...or any other available plane choice"
Westy
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Like I've said in every post, just having a CT is not the answer, never was, we've known that for years. You need to consider my request in total, dont simply harp on the one thing you dont like because your afraid it might catch on. Sorry, thats the way I see it. I have visions of a toddler refusing to eat his spinach. " I dont like it"! "But you've never tried it, how do you know you dont like"? "whaaaa...I just know I wont like it and you cant make me try it"! :)
So instead of picking up a mission to help out your country you'd simply assume that there wouldn't be anything posted to suit your tastes, not a fighter sweep, not an escorted buff raid, tank assault, rocket attack on nme train and shippping, carrier attack on the French coast....not even to just grab a ride and go kill....nuthin, just log off in disgust because you couldn't once again hop in your nik (or whatever, insert favorite plane here) and romp around like you've been doing for countless hours already....no change of pace...same 'ol thing. Sorry to hear it.
CRASH
Originally posted by SWulfe:
When the CT first came out, there were about 40 people in there.
Still 120-130ppl in the MA.
They saw the numbers in the CT, they obviously disregarded it and went to the MA because that's what they find fun.
The only way you are going to get 100+ people in the CT is going to force people to fly in it, and even then I bet you'll only get 50 people... the rest will log off, I know I would.
-SW
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Oh, I'm sorry... I forgot that I actually have fun in the MA.
You want a CT? Hey! WarBirds has one of those things up 24/7 and it's the only one people fly in... go there!
I know how WWII turned out, and when I want a taste of a real mission or what a REAL battle in WWII would of been like- I go for scenarios.
Anything else is simply a half-assed gamey revision to suit those who want a "historical" furball because they can't figure out how to get their Pee51 or F*ckingWhine190 to kill a Spitfire.
-SW
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"herd mentality"....lol
this is a democracy, folks vote on which arena they prefer with thier time.
We need to stop trying to make the MA into a CT or HA. Its sole purpose is fun, and it is.
Now, I am all for making the CT a fun and historic arena, however some consessions need to be made to fit within the AH paradigm and the fact that few (20-30) folks will ever be preset in there at time. (I am an optomist). First, let me say that the idea of historical adversary furball will hold the players interest only for so long, as we have seen. We need goals. Here is what I think...
1. to simulate the number of planes present during the BoB, or other areas of conflict, we need AI pilots.
2. the AI pilots are sent on missions on a fairly regular schedule and these missions are announced to the friendly side. These can be player missions or scripted.
3. the mission types available should roll with the plane set.
4. scoring should be kept on how well an attack is carried out or repelled. (ie. factories destroyed vs. enemy craft defeated)
5. effective attacks, or defenses, should have an effect on the enemies ability to wage war. (ie. fuel, loadout, aircraft availability, etc.)
I imagine it would be fun to escort a flight of 30-40 Ju87's on a mission to attack the docks south of London.
F.
[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: Furious ]
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Originally posted by CRASH:
I have visions of a toddler refusing to eat his spinach. " I dont like it"! "But you've never tried it, how do you know you dont like"? "whaaaa...I just know I wont like it and you cant make me try it"!
...just log off in disgust because you couldn't once again hop in your nik (or whatever, insert favorite plane here) and romp around like you've been doing for countless hours already....
CRASH
Or, the other argument, I don’t think its broke so why are you trying to fix it?
And yes, if I wanna “romp” around like I have been for countless hours what problem should you have with it?
Ohhh, I think I’m starting to get it now. If I don’t think, fly, or follow your ideas I obviously have a problem. If you want historical flying over a weekend take the time to plan for the scenarios. Just because your RL obligations get in the way of that doesn’t fairly allow for an entire 48 hour period to be devoted to a HA so you can show up at any time. Waaaaa, back at ya.
Zippatuh
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Some excellent points made by all.
There has been a historical arena since the early days of Warbirds. On the weekends it did do well but most of the time pilots wanted to fly in an arena with hundreds of peoples not just 10 or 20.
While I too quest for a historical arena, fact is most people want to fly the hot birds. Sure, I do get frustrated when my bird is a 109G2 and it encounters an uber plane. But the revenge is sweet when a squaddie logs on and we beat the piss out of the uber birds in our pre-historic crates it become all the worth while.
As Everquest showed some of us... an online game needs to be all things to all people.
Pay attention to one group and you will loose the other players. AH is a wonderful game that has quite a future. Maybe oneday when money is a little more free they can put up a historical arena so we can all get our fix.
hals und beinbrech
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hehehe...the "waa back at ya is pretty funny :)
I don't necessarily think it's broke for most people, but it has the potential to be way better in my view. I know it's broke for me and most of my squad but we've been doing this for a looooong time so thats probably alot of the reason. I've been away during the week for most of the last 4 months and home on some weekends. Even when I get home and have game time I'll log into ah for like 15 or 20 minutes and get totally bored and end up going to play WWII Online just because it's different...now how sad is that? Now judging from my own experiences and from those I hear from other ah players I'd have to say that its just getting boring for many of us. Generally it seems that what happens is they dont make a big deal about it getting boring they just dont play anymore and pretty soon they let their subscription lapse and thats it. I'm advocating this idea because I think that most people dont get to the scenario's because of the reason's I've stated earlier but would really have a blast if they did. I firmly believe that most AH players, not all, but most would really enjoy something like this one weekend a month. One thing's for sure, unless HT decides to make it happen it'll never change. Hell, the CT's nothin but an ma minus the strat and hindered by a limited plane set....whats the point? I dont even fly it.
We keep centering the argument around hardware, and it's not about hardware, it's about organized play, missions that mean something, discernable progress made by your efforts. Hell, we could do all of this and not limit the planeset, just use a two sided historical map. I'd like to see the two sides limited to axis and allied planes respecitvely, but all late models none the less, to keep some kind of perspective.
So in short we'd have a two sided historical map, late model a/c but limited as to side and co's on during prime time to post missions and help guide the war effort. That'd work for me.
Originally posted by Zippatuh:
Or, the other argument, I don’t think its broke so why are you trying to fix it?
And yes, if I wanna “romp” around like I have been for countless hours what problem should you have with it?
Ohhh, I think I’m starting to get it now. If I don’t think, fly, or follow your ideas I obviously have a problem. If you want historical flying over a weekend take the time to plan for the scenarios. Just because your RL obligations get in the way of that doesn’t fairly allow for an entire 48 hour period to be devoted to a HA so you can show up at any time. Waaaaa, back at ya.
Zippatuh
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First question - Crash are you flying in ToD?
I like the MA, certainly its not perfect. Howeverr, things are changing. We have a bone fide strategy system - kind of unique among its competitors. HTC are slowly tweaking it to the right balance. Look back a year and a half and field capture was barely implemented.
Do I want a historical arena forced upon me? No! Why? Because as much as its been argued about the hordes of nikis/spits/la7s in the MA I could only imagine the boredom of seeing nothing but G-10s and Doras in an HA. I enjoy taking on a plane thats 'technically superior' to what I'm flying. Its more of a challege.
Do I want a mission based HA forced upon me? HELL NO! Why... because little Napoleons, like you, would end forever blasted the country channel with orders. I don't logon to be someone elses squeak.
Look at WW2OL, HA, mission based (apparently now). Go read their BBS, look at the "Axis outnumbers allies all day" whines, or the "I can't spawn this unless I join General Ihaveabignoodle's Missions".
I like the way AH is going, HTC are continually developing, tweaking, adding. If you're not enjoying it maybe its time to take a wee break.
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A alternative arena format wether mission based or other options is somthing we consider.
To close the main arena just to force people to try somthing different is a realy bad idea.
HiTech
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Bravo HT,
Please, please tell us more about your ideas for alternative arenas.
F.
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If you want good historical matchups NOW, fly in Tour of Duty (http://events.simladder.com/tod.php).
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Here's something to try :)
A Marine pilot wrote this and posted it to the MOL mail list. He's also a squaddie :) So if you REALLY want a realistic time in AH try this first before you bemoan the constant furball in the MA. If you can do this while flying in the MA............YOU DA MAN!!!!!!!!
LLB OUT!!!!! look below.......
Gentlemen,
If you're interested in a simulation of the combat flight environment, you would
be much better off by buying yourself a surplus flight helmet and mask
(preferably one that doesn't fit perfectly and has been puked into), a sun lamp
(to get your head nice and toasty), and a pair of Nomex/leather flight gloves
(soak `em with sweat/oil/hydraulic fluid for that crisp but slick feel).
Put your monitor a little above coffee table height. Get about 4-5 of those
concrete slabs you see at the garden section of your local K-Mart, top'em with
the thinnest cheap cushion you can find. (That's your "ejection seat"). Wipe the
mask out with denatured alcohol (smells nice), and clamp a rag soaked in JP-4 or
kerosene on the end of the oxygen hose, and strap that puppy on 'till it leaves
a ring on your face that lasts for hours. (You do this 'cuz when your face is
sweaty and you're pulling G's, the mask will be on your chin if it isn't on
TIGHT.) Turn the sun lamp on and point it at your head.
Now you're doing it like the big boys! Optional "realism" techniques:
Buy some heavy duty nylon webbing (the kind you use to repair old-fashioned lawn
chairs with). Cut two straps of this and wrap them between your legs TIGHTLY
until they leave bruises on your butt (that's your `chute harness).
Play when you've got a BAD hangover. (Rough night at the O Club.)
Have your ex-wife/girl friend/idiot neighbor pester you with questions out of
the Owner's Manual (your pretend "Dash One") while you're trying to fly (can you
say; Check Ride!) Get up and play at 3:30 AM (otherwise known as "zero-dark
thirty"). Make a cheese sandwich, wrap it in waxed paper. Stick it in a shoe box
with a half-pint of milk, a bruised apple, a crushed bag of Fritos, and an
onion. Put it in the fridge overnight, then take it out, throw out the onion,
put the box under the sunlamp while you're flying, and eat when you're hungry.
(USN Box lunch.)
With some imagination and very little cash outlay, you can do a hell of a job
simulating what it's like to fly. That other toejam (side consoles, switches,
speakers, etc.) is strictly for show, and doesn't do anything towards giving you
that "There I wuz" feeling.
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Would prefer the RPS in the MA on the large map. I had no problem with this setup in WBs. It forces up to fly planes we dont normally fly. But the fact is, you just wont see the numbers in a CT 2 sided RPS arena.
Something needs to be done with the MA, but we still need some early fighters anyway. P39 comes to mind, Lagg3 and a few more variants of the Zeke. So much to be done and all the time in the world to do it in :)
Dog out............
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No thanks....if I want Historical gameplay, I do the TOD or other special events. Face it fellas...the MA is the MA and no matter how much you dont like it, its never gonna be anything else. The place for the historical matchups is the special events.
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Originally posted by hitech:
A alternative arena format wether mission based or other options is somthing we consider.
This would be the X-mas present for me. And although I didn't liked the idea at first, I think AI bombers would be the solution to boost up the numbers...
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Another good idea would be the a spellchecker for the BBS
<G.D.R>
Originally posted by hitech:
A alternative arena format wether mission based or other options is somthing we consider.
To close the main arena just to force people to try somthing different is a realy bad idea.
HiTech
[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: Vulcan ]
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wye sjut wi hav ai spæltjekker wem wi unter-
stant itjoder. :D
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Is Wb 2.77 WW2 arena really a failure?
I know there is usually less people than AH MA, BUT can it just be because AH is years ahead of Wb 2.77 and no such arena exist on Wb 3?
Wb WW2 arena is almost what I'd like to play in as a arena consept. Increase there AH:s comparatively better axis planes, better strategy components and voila.
Of course there would still be a few problems that are in WB ww2 arena as well.
I'd like to see the arena in specific theater with correct maps and plane sets i.e. no japanese and german planes in same theater.
Also the plane set is not that good yet especially considering bombers.
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I'm not sure where the "force" is coming from. The idea is to offer everyone a change in map/sides and the opportunity to particpate in ops that are organized for you. In my last post taking into consideration everything that was said the original idea had developed into a two sided arena, say axis/allies, using a historical map (BOB for example).....ahh,ya know what, the hell with it, if your interested you'll read it. I offerred some suggestions to add a little variety to the same old thing. Seems to me that a vocal few are opposed to any change whatsoever. Fine, leave it boring, and squads like mine will simply continue to drop out as they get bored with the lack variety as well.
CRASH out
Originally posted by hitech:
A alternative arena format wether mission based or other options is somthing we consider.
To close the main arena just to force people to try somthing different is a realy bad idea.
HiTech
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Well how about an AXIS vs. Allies Weekend ? or well if that's to extreme how about an AXIS vs. Allies Wednesday ?
DW6
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Save the ink Duck, it's a waste of time, I've run into more open minded Taliban.
I and my squadmates have made what we consider good suggestions to HT in the past and if any response was recieved at all it was always an unequivocol NO. I mentioned having a little crosswind at ground level at some airfields occasionally to add some realism to take offs and landings, easily done...no dice. Maybe a little low level weather, ya know I've hear that low level clouds and socked in air bases were rumored to occurr during the war, apparently I was mistaken. NO CHANGES!! unless we thought of it, of course exploding sheep are good additions to keep things from getting too boring....lame....sad.
CRASH
Originally posted by Duckwing6:
Well how about an AXIS vs. Allies Weekend ? or well if that's to extreme how about an AXIS vs. Allies Wednesday ?
DW6
[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: CRASH ]
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CRASH,
I've had several suggestions adopted by HTC over the years. Sometimes it <cough> takes a while, but they DO listen.
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Crash:
The MA may be boring for you but it is not for a lot of players. When you were a newbie, you probably liked it. By far most players and most newbies seem to show far more affection for the MA than any other type of arena I have ever seen. It would be suicide for HTC to take the MA away and lose lots of potential customers to keep a minority of the old hands happy. Besides, most of us old hands seem to prefer the MA anyway.
Hooligan
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Take the MA away? Did you even read the posts?
CRASH
Originally posted by Hooligan:
Crash:
It would be suicide for HTC to take the MA away and lose lots of potential customers to keep a minority of the old hands happy.
Hooligan
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Don't change the fly what you want, when you want MA. There needs to be a choice. The Combat Theater is a step in that direction, but it's not a true choice, IMO. With the CT you don't get scoring, meaningful strat, i.e. players advancing the "war" on the map, and you don't get to see your spiffy kill stats (unless you keep score yerself!) So the choice is plane choice/strat vs constrained planes/furballing. Neither of those is my favorite choice. The TOD is, but that's 2 hours one night of the week. Anyways, I don't want the choice taken away from me, not even for a day. What if the "BoB Day" is the one day that week I could fly and I had my heart set on my Hellcat?
Don't take away choices, add choices. If not enough people like the new choice, tough, get over it, don't force the majority to try it, even for a day. Encourage them to try it, but don't take away what they already enjoy to get them to try it.
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Okay CRASH it's semantics.
Instead of "take the MA away", substitute "change the MA into an unpopular form".
I don't really see the difference and my original point stands.
Hooligan
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"You want a CT? Hey! WarBirds has one of those things up 24/7 and it's the only one people fly in... go there!
I know how WWII turned out, and when I want a taste of a real mission or what a REAL battle in WWII would of been like- I go for scenarios.
Anything else is simply a half-assed gamey revision to suit those who want a "historical" furball because they can't figure out how to get their Pee51 or F*ckingWhine190 to kill a Spitfire.
-SW "
SW can be kinda perceptive in rare moments. I agree plus..... All LW planes are the same. All fights against LW planes are the same. I don't care to counter the 109 move or the 190 move day in and day out.... crash doesn't want "historical"... He want's to taylor history to fit his style of gameplay. No "historical" arena has vever been anything like "history".
lazs
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If people do not want to be restricted in what they fly, why aren't more flying in the Training Arena? The few times I've popped in it's just a major furball and over there you have no restrictions at all on what you can fly because there are no perk points and fuel is unlimited. ;)
The freedom of choice in the MA is really a Catch-22 which will become evident if early-war aircraft are introduced. Your freedom to choose a N1K2, LA7, Spit IX or SpitXIV (if introduced) would make my choice to fly an F4F or P40 (when and if ever introduced) really not an option. Sure, I can grab an F4F to fly but there will be those people who fly the best they can get their hands on to rack up impressive kill ratios and their seeing an F4F in the arena I would be the target of evey late-war-aircraft-flying-numnutt looking to pad his kill/death ratio and it would quickly become no fun for me. So I would really be forced to fly something else if I want to survive for even the slightest bit in the MA. That's no true choice as to what to fly. I like that we have a discourse going on this topic because I think some people are starting to see a potential problem in the future. Some like late-war, some like mid-war and some like early-war aircraft and they really do not mix well in a free-for-all environment. Even though you have the choice to fly whatever you want in the MA, it is and always will be a late-war planeset in use. Also, carrier planes will probably not do as well against their lighter ground based cousins and this may involve theater restrictions as well. I'm not currently seeing a whole lot of F4U-1s and Hurricans in the MA because they are more difficult to survive in and I can only imagine the introduction of early Zekes, Wildcats, Warhawks, Buffaloes, Devastators and Dauntlases as being any real choice for a player if the plane set in the MA is left wide open. And yes, I am a fan of early-war aircraft and so I do have concerns.
For now, I would love to see a second offering of TOD and more special events.
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Wow...somebody finally gets it :) It's about having more options, not less. In some manifestations it would be neither about more or less as far as hardware is concerned, just a different style of play...a change of pace.
CRASH
Originally posted by Steven:
If people do not want to be restricted in what they fly, why aren't more flying in the Training Arena? The few times I've popped in it's just a major furball and over there you have no restrictions at all on what you can fly because there are no perk points and fuel is unlimited. ;)
The freedom of choice in the MA is really a Catch-22 which will become evident if early-war aircraft are introduced. Your freedom to choose a N1K2, LA7, Spit IX or SpitXIV (if introduced) would make my choice to fly an F4F or P40 (when and if ever introduced) really not an option. Sure, I can grab an F4F to fly but there will be those people who fly the best they can get their hands on to rack up impressive kill ratios and their seeing an F4F in the arena I would be the target of evey late-war-aircraft-flying-numnutt looking to pad his kill/death ratio and it would quickly become no fun for me. So I would really be forced to fly something else if I want to survive for even the slightest bit in the MA. That's no true choice as to what to fly. I like that we have a discourse going on this topic because I think some people are starting to see a potential problem in the future. Some like late-war, some like mid-war and some like early-war aircraft and they really do not mix well in a free-for-all environment. Even though you have the choice to fly whatever you want in the MA, it is and always will be a late-war planeset in use. Also, carrier planes will probably not do as well against their lighter ground based cousins and this may involve theater restrictions as well. I'm not currently seeing a whole lot of F4U-1s and Hurricans in the MA because they are more difficult to survive in and I can only imagine the introduction of early Zekes, Wildcats, Warhawks, Buffaloes, Devastators and Dauntlases as being any real choice for a player if the plane set in the MA is left wide open. And yes, I am a fan of early-war aircraft and so I do have concerns.
For now, I would love to see a second offering of TOD and more special events.
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Originally posted by CRASH:
Wow...somebody finally gets it :) It's about having more options, not less. In some manifestations it would be neither about more or less as far as hardware is concerned, just a different style of play...a change of pace.
CRASH
An option is a choice. You're not suggesting a choice, you're suggesting a different format for the MA, albeit just for a day or two. So my options on your day are to fly your version of the MA or not fly at all. There isn't a new option in your suggestion, you're just replacing the current MA option with your own. That's what just about everyone here is against. Modify the CT to fit what you're suggesting and have that as an option, and the MA will still be the MA as an option.
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Already addressed ad nauseum.
Originally posted by Nifty:
An option is a choice. You're not suggesting a choice, you're suggesting a different format for the MA, albeit just for a day or two. So my options on your day are to fly your version of the MA or not fly at all. There isn't a new option in your suggestion, you're just replacing the current MA option with your own. That's what just about everyone here is against. Modify the CT to fit what you're suggesting and have that as an option, and the MA will still be the MA as an option.
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Originally posted by CRASH:
I think the only way to really test the idea is to do in the MA..Anyway, thats my pitch.
CRASH
So you're saying this is no longer your position, and that you wish to test it in a separate arena? If so, then I'm cool with it.
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steven... yes... something will have to be done to make early war planes a viable choice if we are to have them in the arena but...
An early war "area" or even some sort of RPS wouldn't (and shouldn't be) be restricted to the silly straightjacket of "allied vs axis" with allied vs axis.... even less planes are viable.
lazs
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I'm saying there's an issue here, people are bored with the same continuous style of play, so bored in fact that they simply leave. In my squad it's probably a 75% loss rate. Does that reflect HTC's retention rate, I have no idea. For purely selfish reasons, ie. I want the game to be successful because I wanna keep playin'it and I'd like to see 1000 people in the arena, and I think the game has alot to offer thats not gettin' to joe ah driver I'm sayin' that a variation in MA play, whatever form that may take, would be a welcome diversion. That's why in my original posts I said I wasn't married to any one particular idea. I know I'm not smarter than all of the bbs participants, no one individual is. I expected creative inputs, suggestions on ways to make it better that ht might have actually taken seriously, instead many of the posts were simply knee jerk reactions against any change whatsoever...I was rather suprised at the response. It's unfortunate that people dont really care enough to say, "hey, I'm bored, how bout a change?", they simply just try the game for a bit and leave. I've been reading some of the other posts on the board lately (way too much time on my hands this week :)) and many of the "whines" are rooted in "hey, I'm bored, lets do something a little different".
As far as I'm concerned, if your reaction is "not in my MA, not for a week, not for a day, not for a minute" then your part of the problem. You dont care about anyone else's interests but your own. Who cares if the majority get bored and leave eventually, at least I'm getting what I want 100 percent of the time, thats all that matters. It's selfish, and the people who act like that are acting like selfish children who refuse to share. There may be one best way for the MA to be most of the time and I would totally agree that we shouldnt permanantly change the MA from the current model but there's no question that we need some variety.
The CT in it's current form is an empty gesture and splitting up the player base into different arena is a proven bad idea as far as I'm concerned.
CRASH
Originally posted by Nifty:
So you're saying this is no longer your position, and that you wish to test it in a separate arena? If so, then I'm cool with it.
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Originally posted by CRASH:
...It's unfortunate that people dont really care enough to say, "hey, I'm bored, how bout a change?", they simply just try the game for a bit and leave. I've been reading some of the other posts on the board lately (way too much time on my hands this week :)) and many of the "whines" are rooted in "hey, I'm bored, lets do something a little different".
As far as I'm concerned, if your reaction is "not in my MA, not for a week, not for a day, not for a minute" then your part of the problem. You dont care about anyone else's interests but your own. Who cares if the majority get bored and leave eventually, at least I'm getting what I want 100 percent of the time, thats all that matters. ...
Interesting argument. Do you have data to back that up? I would propose that a majority of the AH player base plays on a regular basis and do not care for your idea. I myself do not have any data to back this up; however, I do remember the numbers in the CT compared to the MA when it was first opened. I believe the highest number of participants at any one time was somewhere around 40. The MA still had a showing of about 150 strong.
Question: If the majority of the players where indeed bored with the MA playing style then why did the numbers in the CT not reflect this at its grand opening?
Answer: Because the majority isn’t bored with the MA. My opinion anyway.
What I see is a proposal to alter the playing style of the majority to suit the, not so vocal, minority. And yes, I do care about other players. Usually the ones I’m thinking of are the numbers, probably high, that do not frequent or post in these boards at all. If that makes me part of the problem, well then, I guess that all depends on your definition and use of the word “problem”.
I would hope for boredom’s sake that all the issues with the CT get worked out. After all, IMO, this is where your proposal needs to be. Not in the MA. When, if ever, I start to see on country and open channel about how much the MA sucks flooding the text buffer I may be influenced also. The way I see it, as long as HTC keeps putting out and refining changes to strategy, aircraft, vehicles, and terrain a remodeling of the MA is not needed or warranted. Even if the remodel is only for a day or two. After all a lot of the changes to the MA have a root with player concerns. I believe your proposal to be to much of an alteration.
You may just have to face the cancellation of your account and changing to greener pastures to satisfy the boredom that seemingly plagues you. I’d also be willing to bet good money you’d be back within a handful of months to the new and exciting MA. I could be wrong the leave might be permanent. I wouldn’t count on HTC going belly up because of it though.
Some people are just never satisfied.
Zippatuh
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Zip said it best.
crash, if you look around at other threads, you'll see that I'm in favor of something along the lines you're talking about. To say that I don't care about anyone's interests but my own are far off the mark. My interests for the most part are NOT what the MA offers. However, what I get from reading these boards and playing the game over the past 6 months is that the majority of people prefer the current MA setup of choosing planes, lonewolfing, furballing, etc. The only viable options are multiple arenas and Lazs' idea of arenas within the main arena.
I agree with you on the CT in terms of it's a hollow gesture.
We do have variety, crash. You flew with us in the TOD this past week, and hopefully you're flying with us again tomorrow night. I agree with everyone that says it's not enough though. It isn't. Friday nights are ok for the majority of us, but it's not feasible for others. The CMs will get a Euro friendly one out, hopefully within a month or so. Changes are coming where hopefully we'll see more scenarios (Snapshot variety) running, and not just on Saturday afternoons. Sounds like there's another big multiframe scenario in the works.
Just imagine this... You log onto AH one evening and you see the MA arena (heck even with early, mid and late war areas to make lazs happy) with a good 150 people on it, the TA has it's usual 10 people furballing it out, the SEA has about 30 people in it running a recreation of a Pac (or Eastern front) battle, and the new CT [complete with strat, mission generators both player and auto generated, scores, maybe even AI ground vehicles and bomber squads complete with bomb dispersion (ok ok ok, I'm getting a little too much into the fantasy here!)] having about 50 people enjoying the "historical" aspects on a 24hr basis. That fantasy scenario, IMO, is much better than 210 people in the MA, some being forced into playing a style they don't really care for.
ps - sorry for the use of the word "historical." We're all into the selective "historical" or "realism" thing. Just depends on where we set the slider.
and on that note, I'm going home. :)
edit: lazs, I'm just pokin' fun at you. I actually agree with you on the issues of mixing late war and early war planes. I'm just not sure what the best ways of dealing with it are. I dunno about the areas concept, but I agree with you that the perk points just keep the late war planes rare but not fair. You'd still have a case of a Spit I (if added) being shot at by a Me262, for example, in the current setup.
[ 10-25-2001: Message edited by: Nifty ]
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Having read Crash's post, here's my opinion on this subject.
The CT arena could provide the haven those of us who want historically based realism in AH e.g.
Rotating historically matched plane sets
Rotating terrains to go with plane sets above e.g. you would feel weird flying a P47 or P51 over an island terrain or a Nikki over Europe.
No icons or at least just a red or green dot which would show only at distance that aircraft markings are visible.
Death takes you out for 5 mins.
Enhanced stall/spin and more realistic flight model e.g. you exceed the envelope in a 190 and you'll stall/spin and probably die as so many real life pilots did in WW2. Take off in an F4U without proper correction for torque and it will kill you right there on the runway.
The numbers have grown in AH and it's a shame to have an entire arena sit idle. I suspect it's because there just isn't much difference between the two.
Beeg
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Man I hate to bring the name of FA into this august gathering of eagles but I will. When I first started flight simming in FA I found that what I liked the most was the totally different flight model in the full real arenas. Things like Crash is mentioning here; crosswind, low level weather is what could make the CT arena different enough to draw it's own following. I would have to be making a big assumption that from a programmer's point of view this is easily attainable but if it is possible that would be my preference. Plane sets don't have to be changed just make them more realistic and I strongly suspect that the only people in there will be those who are willing to invest a little more time to master the more demanding conditions.
Beeg
Originally posted by CRASH:
<snip>a little crosswind at ground level at some airfields occasionally to add some realism to take offs and landings
Maybe a little low level weather <snip>
CRASH
[ 10-24-2001: Message edited by: CRASH ]
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Zip,
I'll take ur last hypothosis first. I'm not interested in quitting ah, I thought I made how I feel about the game clear in quite a few of the previous posts and if thats your polite way of saying "if you don't like it, leave" then it's pretty close minded.
Regarding the numbers you mentioned, no I dont have a statistically valid sampling just my own experience with my squadmates and a few others I know who've played the game. Out of 15 or so that played there's 3 left, but ofcourse HTC would have the hard numbers. From my experience, people don't fill the buffer with "the ma sucks" when they get bored, or even post a word, they just stop playing. All addressed in previous posts.
I dont agree that the majority would vote for no variation in MA setup. I think that given a chance the vast majority, (though of course not wanting to change the arena permantly, me included) would be in favor of many of the ideas I suggested on occasion.
Nifty, I'm a different CRASH than the guy that flew TOD last week, but as luck would have it I will be up this week. Gonna fly with ammo's crew this hop. I had initally em'd swoop about flyin' with you guys and was gonna but decided that flyin' with ammo would be a better idea.
I never thought that splitting the player base into different arena's was a good idea and still dont. I like it when you log on and there's 200 people in the arena, some are on ground attack, some on cv's some runnin bomber raids, ect. It gives you a lot to choose from. Split arena's gets you two arena's with fewer people in them furballin' 'cause there isnt enough players available and willing to put on the organized stuff.
Ya know, I hate flyin' buffs for the most part, almost never do it, but if the buff guys convinced ht to have buff night once a month in the ma and 3 out of every 4 flights you had to take a buff, I'd be all for it. I'd learn how to gun a buff better and when it was my turn to fly a fighter I'd have a boatload of big fat buff targets to blast to pieces. I know that I'd still have fun. And on top of all that, the avid buff drivers would be happy and less likely to bail out on the game. That's the difference between me and you zip, I'm willing to play some else's game once in a while because it's good for everybody and when my turn comes around those same people would be willing to play mine. It's all part of being a community.
CRASH
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nifty... I don't feel you are 'poking fun' at me at all. you have fairly stated my position. I believe that my position is the only viable one i have heard so far that will allow what any arena needs... parity, action, variety, choice and action and then more action. You need to be able to log on at any time and choose any plane you like to fly and find some fun fights in a short time and have..... fun... yu need to have as much fun flying one hour a night as you would if you camped on line. on line campers don't need to be "rewarded" with idiotic perks or any other advantage. Newbies and casual players need to be rewarded but.... the only reward should be a good time.
The current arena is getting faster and faster and more restricted to certain styles and later war rides. crash and co. are so far off the mark that they would bankrupt any sim in a heartbeat. the, lopsided and unfair at best at worst and just plain boring at best, "axis vs allied" "historical" planeset is a loser. I don't give a whit what they think is "historical" I read the book and I know how each chapter comes out. I'm not in the mood to dress up and play WWII re-enactment in.... A GAME. I will comprimise tho.... give the historical dipshits medals or rank or something and call it a day.
lazs
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And nifty... I got nothin against your dream CT arena idea with it's 50 players but... The reality is that MOST of the "historical" or even allied vs axis if you prefer, guys.... Well, let's just say you couldn't get two of em to agree on any one feature for such an arena. The reason? They, most of em, have an agenda that has nothing to do with parity and everything to do with gaining some sort of advantage.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs1:
...parity, action, variety, choice and action and then more action...
You should write scripts for Michael Bay or even Jerry Bruckheimer, lol. I would honestly like to see your version of Pearl Harbour. I think that half fo the audience would be throwing their guts out after 10 mins due to sensory overload :D
You used to turn me mad...now you're giving ma a good laugh at least twice a day. I thank you for this...
And, Lazs, I'll give you that: you're dedicated!
<S>
PS I still don't agree with you most of the time, but we both don't care now ;)
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<<<[Lazs] They, most of em, have an agenda that has nothing to do with parity and everything to do with gaining some sort of advantage.>>>
It appears to me you pooh-pooh everyone else's idea and are so certain your idea is the best. I won't say it is or isn't because I am not clear as to what you suggest, but arenas within arenas are still separate arenas. I think we can all do better to work together and find a happy medium. I disagree with your statement though and think you have it backwards. Those who fly the so-called "uber" planes do not want to allow the parity of enjoyment in Aces High. They want to fly their favorite aircraft at the expense of others. I had about 2-3 months experience in Air Warrior before finding Aces High and though they had a main arena that offered Warhawks and Wildcats with Mustangs, Spits and even N1Ks (though N1Ks seemed more frangile and less used there), I might have seen a Wildcat flying in the arena twice and I can't recall ever seeing a Warhawk flying in the main arena. Just why is that? Is it because paying money to become a target and commit Air Warrior suicide is no fun? I suggest the same thing will occur in Aces High once early war planes are introduced...if ever introduced. Their choice in the MA is really no choice. I love the Wildcat and have a great respect and admiration for those pilots who took that little beast up against the best the Japanese had to offer but I'll never, ever be able to enjoy that aircraft in a Main Arena setting if something cannot be worked out. And thus, the Main Arena in effect would not be a free-choice area. I only see the potential problem and am not sure what the answer is, but it would be cool if we could use a better tone of writing in here so people take us seriously.
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Originally posted by CRASH:
Why? We've been forced into an unorganized MA for years and people are have left because it's just the same old thing and no one at HT seems to care enough to give it a shot. I'm not advocating that we make a permanent change, I'm just saying give it a try for a weekend or so, if people like it make it a regular event, say 1 week a month or even 1 weekend a month. What do we have to lose? If it's unpopular we just dont do it anymore. I think the community would accept it as a short, welcome break from the standard fair.
CRASH
"The MA is practice for scenarios."
Tex
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desely... I am gratified.. everything i have done in flight sims has been done with an eye toward bringing a smile to your face... It is my version of the 'make a wish foundation' and.... You can bet my version of "pearl harbor" woulda made money. You coulda bought a lot of minimum wage theatre puke cleaner upers with the profit. A little more gratuitous nudity couldn't have hurt either.
steven.. I don't belive that you have gotten my point. With a seperate early war 'area' within the arena people could easily check out early war action while keeping an eye on everything else that was going on in the rest of the arena. Yur (and my) beloved wildcat would have a place to fly and best of all... they could and would do it unmolested by mustangs and doras and 190A's. To make any arena, even mine, allied vs axis tho would be to destroy variety and parity in one fell swoop.
With an area arena, squads could stay intact, friends could stay in touch etc. contrast that with seperate arenas or even any type of "axis vs allied" idea.
lazs
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<bump>
Ok we have an MA.. How about an ADDITIONAL HA or "Historical Arena"? Where we could run continuous historical scenarios? :D
There we could have only Axis and Allied, US and Japanese planes and vehicles and maps.. ??? Kind of like a continuous "Event"?
What you think HTC?
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Originally posted by Ace Rimmer:
<bump>
Ok we have an MA.. How about an ADDITIONAL HA or "Historical Arena"? Where we could run continuous historical scenarios? :D
What you think HTC?
I'm sure if you paid for the extra bandwidth for an arena that would be lightly used he'd have no problem opening another arena.
:mad:
So, who wants to pony up?
Tex
UBB SUCKS PURPLE MONKEY BALLS!
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There ya go .. yeah ... rotating smotating.
Get that Spanish Civil War planeset and arena up and running! I'm sure theres a few here that aren't pure Dorka dweebs ar Stang studs ... or Niki nerds ... or ...
Uber? Uber? You want UBER?
Uberbipes!
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An agenda? Advantage? Advantage in what? Dude, it's a game. We all fly around in circles and shoot each other down. The agenda's to have more fun at it. Inject a little variety into it once in awhile. No organized conspiracy to take away your favorite ride for the rest of your life. Geez, you act like somebodies comin' to repo your furniture or somethin'.
CRASH
They, most of em, have an agenda that has nothing to do with parity and everything to do with gaining some sort of advantage.
lazs[/QB]
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crash... anything past the BOB that is a "historical" and "allied vs Axis" planeset is lopsided and boring. Who do you think want's to be the p4o and spit 5 guys during the 190a period? Who wants to be a 190a guy during the mustang period.... Who the hell wants to fight in an arena that is either flying or fighting.... all 109/190 all the time. Many LW guys want allied vs axis so that their rides will have a place in the sun... so that people will be forced to fly or fight against the vboring LW rides.
lazs
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I'm not sure I agree with you there, Laz; I can think of several post BoB scenarios that are tense and well balanced for both sides:
Scwinfurt (Can we say Bigweek? :) )
Malta
Operation Strangle
Operation Crossbow
Operation Carthage
Bodenplatte
Nieman
Leyte Gulf
Kursk
etc........
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seeker... you will admit that there were very few timeframes where there was parity and... even when there was there was very little variety of planes. Most of the scenarios you describe were just that.... scenarios not parts of a timeframe in WWII.
You would of course admit that there is infinitly more parity and variety possible with non historic planesets?
lazs
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"seeker... you will admit that there were very few timeframes where there was parity "
I take it you mean a fair and even balance of forces? Then yes, I whole heartedly agree with you, it was extremely rare. However I maintain that's irrelvant, on two grounds:
A) The historical record shows that parity doesn't count for as much as command. The Battle of Britain is the archtype of this type of conflict - far, far away from parity, yet we all know the result. the point of a scenario being could you improve on history?
B) Parity doesn't automaticaly mean fun, and it's fun we're after. I'm aware that the events team take terrific pains to research their projects for accuracy, and I'm aware that there are people who jump down their necks for having an incorrect serial number painted on the plane - and what's the result? One poorly attended scenario since March. Hardly a strong argument for the status quo. War is hell. This is a war game, deal with it and have fun.
I'd have to agree 100% with your second point, but I'd suggest your running the risk of obsessing on parity. Parity schmarity - can you not imagine a fun event on *your* terms? I'm sure it would be different from mine, hopefully intrigingly so.
You know, just to stir things up, I'd love to see the 10 best luftwaffles in 262's up against, say - twenty or thiry Hurri IIC's or Shturmi's. Can you imagine the fragile ego's, the whining, the hilarity? The screen shots? *This* is the stuff community legends and memories are born from - some one like FD or Mitsu or even better some one completly unknown silencing Grun for the next three years with a screenshot of a HO'd 262 every time they start their "We are ubermen in undermoddeled uber planes" dance.
I'd like to jam *you* in a Mossie and see how you make out taking down the Copenhagen gestapo HQ. I *know* Supongo would love the chance to plan a reception for you.
Lets get making legends, and have a laugh doing it.
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seeker... we don't totally dissagree. Comand and determination and talent were very important in WWII. This however...
Is a game. A game needs to have the appearance of parity. especially, and MA type environment where people come on and ofrf at all different times for different lengths of time and..... most importantly... to get different things out of the game.
Scripted scenarios are the place for "historical" gameplay not the MA. Like I said... In the MA "historical" planesets becomes mindnumbingly boring at best and totally lopsided at worst in very short order. Even those as acking in imagination as fluff drivers and those who fly for the girly grey, soon tire of the sameness of "historical" matchups.
With such a lack of variety... people tend to focus on every little imagined "slight" to their prefered ride... 2 mph too slow... penetration wrong.... damage model unfair... we had mw50 and jatos and hyperdrive on this model... your plane didn't come out till april.. etc.
lazs
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Plea for historical gameplay?
somehow i got a vivid image in my mind of you guys on your knees praying to a small effigy of hitech.
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Originally posted by texter:
"The MA is practice for scenarios."
Tex
YOU HEATHEN
;)