Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Stampf on July 24, 2014, 09:40:31 AM
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(https://randyroberts.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/img_9271a_thumb.jpg?w=644&h=431)
During World War I, it had to be an uncomfortable feeling to have this aircraft turn in behind you. This replica Fokker Dr I hangs in the EAA Airventure Museum in Oshkosh, Wisconsin. A very visible aircraft that immediately draws your attention as you walk into the museum.
(https://randyroberts.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/img_9472a_thumb.jpg?w=644&h=431)
The paint scheme is authentic, representing Lt. Hans Weiss of Jasta 11, which was under the command of Baron Manfred von Richthofen — the Red Baron — famous for his blood red Fokker Dr I. Only 320 Fokker Dr Is were ever built. Making the planes reputation even more remarkable because its Allied counterparts were built in the thousands.
(https://randyroberts.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/img_9481a_thumb.jpg?w=644&h=431)
Powered by a rotary engine the Dr I was slower than the then current Allied designs, but with impressive turning and climbing abilities this plane proved capable against most aircraft despite being slower. Armed with a pair of Spandau machine guns synchronized to fire through the propeller it delivered a fearful punch.
(https://randyroberts.files.wordpress.com/2009/06/img_9513a_thumb.jpg?w=644&h=431)
With a welded aluminum frame, wooden wings and fabric stretched over, this light weight design offered little defensive protection for its pilots, which even the vaunted Red Baron discovered when he was shot down.
Simply beautiful in my opinion, and if anyone here has the time, skill, and/or inclination to skin this, I assure you it will see mucho airtime.
Thank you.
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Please skin this plane, it's just too beautiful. I would greatly appreciate your efforts in skinning it, Thank You in advance. :salute
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This plane is a beauty.
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This paint job is , just to beautiful not to have in AH ! :aok
Old guys like me, like to admire !....and maybe get lucky to fly it !!............ In Aces High ! :x
:old: ... :salute
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That is an awesome paint scheme I love it. :aok
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While I don't usually fly in WW1, or ever skinned a plane for that arena, I do take bribes. :devil
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I do take bribes. :devil
How about one dozen {12} Virgins ! ???......................... :t
:old: I.. :salute.. U !!!
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How about one dozen {12} Virgins ! ???......................... :t
:old: I.. :salute.. U !!!
Bakers dozen, or no deal! :old:
If nobody minds it taking a while to get to I'll do it. I've never done a WWI plane before so it may take a really, really long time to do.
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Any photos or profiles to back up the skin with?
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Any photos or profiles to back up the skin with?
this.
How about one dozen {12} Virgins ! ???......................... :t
:old: I.. :salute.. U !!!
I'd settle for a half dozen hotties with experience. :rock
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this.
I'd settle for a half dozen hotties with experience. :rock
+1
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Any photos or profiles to back up the skin with?
this.
I'd settle for a half dozen hotties with experience. :rock
I have submitted Lt. Weiss's case to HTC for review.
Will advise.
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It would also be worth emailing the museum to see if you can get their sources for the skin.
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It would also be worth emailing the museum to see if you can get their sources for the skin.
The men behind this airplane are like a 'Who's who in the Aviation World". I am sure the folks at HTC not only know this plane but all of the following names:
"Fokker/Redfern Dr. 1 Triplane Replica History - N105RF
EAA’s Fokker Dr. I was built by Walter “Wimpy” W. Redfern (EAA 143). Walt was born in Joplin, MT in 1921. In his teens, his excitement for flying was fostered by watching movies of WWI featuring open cockpit biplane fighters. While growing up, he spent his time building model airplanes and learning many skills from his father. Most of these skills would be needed in his future homebuilding endeavors. In 1938, Walt completed flying lessons and received a pilots license. He served his country in WWII and married his high school sweetheart, Velda Warwick. After the war he put his impressive skills to use on the construction of a Payne Knight Twister (1949). He completed the aircraft and flew it for many years, but the idea of owning a WWI fighter was always in the back of his mind. In 1958 Walt sold the Knight Twister and began looking for a project.
Walt found his project while looking through a flying magazine. There was an ad for “Triplane” plans from Peter Bowers of “Fly Baby” fame. He ordered the plans and began researching the design in earnest. For additional insights into the Dr. I design he acquired some Joseph Nieto plans from the Smithsonian, but his greatest find was yet to come. During his research he was able to get in contact with Reinhold Platz, one of the original designers of the Dr. I. Mr. Platz sent Walt a wealth of information along with a set of original plans. Even with the language barrier, Reinhold became a valuable mentor to Walt.
With Walt’s’ impressive skills in almost all facets of airplane building, he was able to create an authentic replica of the Fokker Dr.I. Modifications were made as follows: the engine is a 1938 145 hp Warner Scarab seven-cylinder radial engine, it has a larger fuel tank to hold 30 gallons, and larger oil tank with a capacity of 5 gallons. The back of Walt’s garage in Tekoa, Washington was a busy place for three and a half years. It took 4000 hours and $4000 dollars to build the replica triplane.
Once completed, the triplane was escorted through the small town of 900 by volunteer fire department trucks and local police. What a site it must have been! The first flight was made on July 24, 1964. Walt flew the airplane for approximately two years and 500 hours before selling it to Mr. Robert Fergus.
Walt Redfern went on to build 12 additional aircraft and founded Redfern & Son’s Custom Aircraft, Inc. He constructed four additional Dr.Is, two Great Lakes, a French Nieuport 14, a Starduster Too, de Havilland DH2, Sopwith Camel, Bucher Jungmeister, Albatros DVa, and a Fokker DVI. Walt passed away on February 25, 1996 before the test flight of his Fokker DVI. Thanks to Walt Redfern’s skills, passion, and hard work, many aviation enthusiasts can enjoy the sight of WW I fighters in the skies above, and the possibility of building one themselves."
:airplane:
Edit: Bold Print in case it was missed. This bird was built with the guidance of one of the original Dr1 designers. I am quite certain Herr Platz knew exactly what Weiss's several a/c looked like.
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Billionaire Pilot, collector...dude... Robert Fergus is the man who donated her to the EEA Museum.
No one (a few exceptions) had the balls to fly it. And I can post that quote for you.
Edit: (http://htmlimg1.scribdassets.com/4v5c02yvr43y9dr6/images/11-1f0d8634f0.jpg)
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Check the picture and comments about the overall white color at this link.
http://riseofflight.com/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=204&t=9622
And a bit more here.
http://www.jjduk.co.uk/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=486
Second model down here.
http://www.ipmssouthland.com/aircraft-ww1.html
And here.
http://www.aviationfilm.com/aircraft/dr1_weiss/index.shtml
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Thanks bustr.
Had previously seen all of those.
From your last link:
"On May 2nd Weiss himself was killed when he was shot down over Méricourt by Canadian ace Lt Merril Taylor of 209 Squadron. Lt Taylor mentioned a "white triplane" in his combat report. However, other 209 Squadron pilots described the enemy formation as "red-nosed triplanes" (i.e. the common Jasta 11 adornment), so it is safe to assume the aircraft was Weiss's partially white aircraft."
No it is not safe to assume anything. The partially White (upper wing/rear fuse) version is well known. (Standard Flight Leader paint job). There are no pictures of the A/C Weiss was flying on the 2nd. of May.
HTC approved the version in the EAA Museum - However I was reminded how much goes into making these WW1 skins. (ie:damage textures/modeling).
I would take this aircraft skinned eitherway - and would go so far as to say...that we should skin it in the known/provable scheme of only partially white - so as to stick to the long standing tradition of documented paint schemes only. Even though I believe that by May 2nd. - Weiss had completely over painted his A/C to all white - The partially white version offers no arguments.
<S>
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:lol
I have to laugh at some of the stuff people put up as 'History' on the web...
Many time during my research (the links above included) into Hans Weiss's career I have seen a picture of a German soldier with the caption identifying the photo as Hans Weiss of Jasta 11. :rofl Uhm...No! That Hans Weiss was a SS man in WWII!!
This is the only known picture of Weiss with a DR1.
(http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss35/stampf/untitledWeiss_zpsfee6bae7.png)
and here is an acceptable representaion of the aircraft supposedly pictured:
(http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss35/stampf/untitledWeiss2_zpse61a2d9d.png)
and the ROF version:
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/Cladean/FDr1_J11Weissscreenshotyellowbrown.jpg)
A fine addition to the stable it would be.
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I may end up skinning both schemes when the time comes - long way off. The partial scheme is well documented but the all white version is so awesome
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I may end up skinning both schemes when the time comes - long way off. The partial scheme is well documented but the all white version is so awesome
Thank you Devil. I know you would do a fine job. Your skins are among the very best currently entering the game.
<S>
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Danke. :cheers:
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OK, go easy on me as this is my first skin, but I want some pointers/suggestions as these are just the 2 main pages. I haven't touched the damage ones or the bump mapping ones.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/DR1_4_zps48cd632b.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/DR1_4_zps48cd632b.jpg.html)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/DR1_3_zps4b637408.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/DR1_3_zps4b637408.jpg.html)
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I don't know what program you're using for to make the skins, but you might want to run a noise filter on the main white areas then a slight blur. This will help break up the look of the plane so it doesn't look solid (gives it more of a speckled, fabric look).
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I don't know what program you're using for to make the skins, but you might want to run a noise filter on the main white areas then a slight blur. This will help break up the look of the plane so it doesn't look solid (gives it more of a speckled, fabric look).
What I do in Gimp for fabric is:
1. Create a new layer and fill this with a fairly neutral gray.
2. Create a layer and apply Noise -> Hurl (increase the density)
3. Desaturate this layer and Duplicate it
4. On one layer, apply a Motion Blur at 90 degrees. Play with your length until you get it where you want it.
5. On the second layer, apply a Motion Blur at 0 degrees at the same length.
6. Adjust the transparency of your two blurred layers until they're about where you want them.
7. Once you have they where you want them, merge them with your neutral layer.
8. Select the layer with those elements on which you want the fabric texture to appear.
9. Go to Filter -> Map -> Bump Map
10. Use your merged "fabric" as the Bump Map, play around with the other settings as desired (I prefer Spherical or Sinusoidal for the map type.
11. Apply this, and you'll have a fairly nice "woven" texture to the surface.
12. Make sure to use your "fabric" texture on your actual bump map, as well.
In order to make sure you don't lose any of the texture along the edges, I would make your fabric texture fill the entire image, and then selectively apply it the the layers you want textured
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I don't know what program you're using for to make the skins, but you might want to run a noise filter on the main white areas then a slight blur. This will help break up the look of the plane so it doesn't look solid (gives it more of a speckled, fabric look).
Im using photoshop, and Im no where near done. I only just started messing with dirtying up the plane.
What I do in Gimp for fabric is:
1. Create a new layer and fill this with a fairly neutral gray.
2. Create a layer and apply Noise -> Hurl (increase the density)
3. Desaturate this layer and Duplicate it
4. On one layer, apply a Motion Blur at 90 degrees. Play with your length until you get it where you want it.
5. On the second layer, apply a Motion Blur at 0 degrees at the same length.
6. Adjust the transparency of your two blurred layers until they're about where you want them.
7. Once you have they where you want them, merge them with your neutral layer.
8. Select the layer with those elements on which you want the fabric texture to appear.
9. Go to Filter -> Map -> Bump Map
10. Use your merged "fabric" as the Bump Map, play around with the other settings as desired (I prefer Spherical or Sinusoidal for the map type.
11. Apply this, and you'll have a fairly nice "woven" texture to the surface.
12. Make sure to use your "fabric" texture on your actual bump map, as well.
In order to make sure you don't lose any of the texture along the edges, I would make your fabric texture fill the entire image, and then selectively apply it the the layers you want textured
Thanks, I have done a bit of some of this on the bottom of the plane with the mid grey and motion blurs. I didn't take real good screen shots as well there really isn't a lot of detail to be seen yet. I did mess around a bit trying to come up with a plan to try for a "woven" effect but hadn't worked anything out yet.
At this point I'm wondering if the iron crosses are the right size and position, as well as the stripes. The one on the upper wing is hard to tell from the pictures, but it is my best guess. The "white" color I didn't want to "bright". what do you guys think, Close?
Here's a couple more, I thought the struts and brackets came out nice....
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/DR1_6_zps014cdc19.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/DR1_6_zps014cdc19.jpg.html)
Like I said I started messing with the bottom...
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/DR1_5_zpsc1d542da.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/DR1_5_zpsc1d542da.jpg.html)
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Fugi I have no words. Thanks as always...damn I am starting to owe you many in the book now...
The red flight leader chevrons and late war Balkans look fine. (and late war is correct - unlike the partial white version). Yes too bright for a combat flown warbird even though Weiss only wore this paint job for probably less than 3 weeks - as the photo of his partial white version of his plane dates from early April. Use the ROF version as a ref for shade and weathering.
I would go ahead and add the Fokker DrI # as shown in the ROF version above - even though there is no proof that the partial version in the photo is indeed 545/17. The a/c Weiss supposedly was flying on May 2nd. Of course - he had more than one as did all the flight leaders.
Skin makes perfect sense for a man named Henry White - taking over for the Red Baron - at the helm of the Circus of red trimmed aircraft - and undoubtedly the most liberal airplane artists of all time when it came to personalizing their rides. The man who shot him down said - the plane was white. Good enough for me right there. Not a one off either. Goering and many others preferred white over the blues, blacks, reds, and yellows that were common.
Going to be a most beautiful addition. Hope we get both versions at some point.
EDIT: And why the black tail stripes some ask? Simple. Weiss came from Jasta 10. - check it out.
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Looks good so far Fuji. :aok
Here's a shortcut to finding a good faded shade of white: Copy the white layer and paste it to a new layer just above the white, invert the white to black and now just use the opacity slider to adjust the faded look. On my skins, white markings are faded with about 10% black - and black markings faded with 10% white. by having a separate layer for the shading, you can adjust the color on the fly when making adjustments until you find the percentage that you like best. My advice is no less than 5% and no more than 15%.
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Also, regardless of how you weather it, remember that the white paint wouldn't be PURE white.
Simmers Paint Shop AFAIK doesn't have any color swatches for WWI, but you might take a look at the German swatches for some examples. Wasserhell (250, 247, 241) might be a good choice to start with.
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Also, regardless of how you weather it, remember that the white paint wouldn't be PURE white.
Simmers Paint Shop AFAIK doesn't have any color swatches for WWI, but you might take a look at the German swatches for some examples. Wasserhell (250, 247, 241) might be a good choice to start with.
Correct. And the debate over the exact shade used by the WWI German airforce is as old as the hills. It certainly was not the nice gloss white you see hanging under bright lights in a museum. More like a washed out light grey/white actually.
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While maybe not quite as bright as pure white, I wonder if the color changed a bit over the years from weathering. Possibly could the old painted fabrics have changed a bit from when they were brand new?
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Took yesterday off to take the wife to the beach. Had a great time and only burned a little. Those spray on suntan lotion works well as long as a gust of wind doesn't pop up as you spray :furious Look like a "painted" pony!
Looks good so far Fuji. :aok
Here's a shortcut to finding a good faded shade of white: Copy the white layer and paste it to a new layer just above the white, invert the white to black and now just use the opacity slider to adjust the faded look. On my skins, white markings are faded with about 10% black - and black markings faded with 10% white. by having a separate layer for the shading, you can adjust the color on the fly when making adjustments until you find the percentage that you like best. My advice is no less than 5% and no more than 15%.
Ill check this out too. Im usually pretty good at coming up with easy ways to do things, but I just don't know Photoshop that well yet.
Also, regardless of how you weather it, remember that the white paint wouldn't be PURE white.
Simmers Paint Shop AFAIK doesn't have any color swatches for WWI, but you might take a look at the German swatches for some examples. Wasserhell (250, 247, 241) might be a good choice to start with.
Took a look at that and the white I used is darker than that one already. I used 224,215,202 as my base. I wanted to be sure I left some room to use a brighter white for some highlights.
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Fugi very nice work my friend.
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Thanks Hajo <S>
OK, here's a bit of an update. I added some texture to the skin. You can see it pretty good from the cockpit view. I also added the rib dirt and a number of tweaks to line up lines center stripes and so on.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/DR1topsideV2_zps3cb2a366.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/DR1topsideV2_zps3cb2a366.jpg.html)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/DR1undersideV2_zps23755f2e.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/DR1undersideV2_zps23755f2e.jpg.html)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/DR1wingV2_zps0b161a89.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/DR1wingV2_zps0b161a89.jpg.html)
Comments?
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:aok
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Lov'n it!
And call me a bonehead...but I just realized that we already have Weiss's partial white Dr1 - 545/17 in game. Doh! It's the default skin.
:uhoh
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This is obviously an improvement of the default skin. Nice work.
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This is obviously an improvement of the default skin. Nice work.
Oh for certain. And solves everything too!
Looking sweet Fugi. That going to be a fan fav.
:airplane:
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Hey stampf, if it's all white german skins, even the D7 had one. I don't think this is Göring's. Certainty will make it easier to see them in the bushes..... :D
Oh by the way if you look up Göring at wiki there is a flim of him in his D7. It's late enough in WW1 that his D7 is sporting one of the new fangled telescopic optical gunsights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_G%C3%B6ring
(http://www.bibl.u-szeged.hu/bibl/mil/ww1/technika/repules/tipusok/fokker_d7_3.jpg)
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Hey stampf, if it's all white german skins, even the D7 had one. I don't think this is Göring's. Certainty will make it easier to see them in the bushes..... :D
Oh by the way if you look up Göring at wiki there is a flim of him in his D7. It's late enough in WW1 that his D7 is sporting one of the new fangled telescopic optical gunsights.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermann_G%C3%B6ring
(http://www.bibl.u-szeged.hu/bibl/mil/ww1/technika/repules/tipusok/fokker_d7_3.jpg)
Actually the one you pictured is one of Goring's. His DVII # 5125/18. But like I noted earlier, the all white scheme was used my many, many pilots and most numerous were among the Albatross d1's like this captured one illustrates.
(http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/9033/8albatrosdi.jpg)
I have seen that film. Very cool.
Missed ya last night. Almost 3 hrs. and 30 kytes.
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Sorry, was my Bday. Wife had steaks and bourbon.
Make up for it next week...... :salute
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Sorry, was my Bday. Wife had steaks and bourbon.
Make up for it next week...... :salute
Happy Birthday my friend.
<S>
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Update, I added the text, and dirtied it up a bit. I didn't want to go overboard.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/DR1_fin_lower_zpsed281017.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/DR1_fin_lower_zpsed281017.jpg.html)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/DR1_fin_upper_zpsd211969e.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/DR1_fin_upper_zpsd211969e.jpg.html)
I'll start working on the damage sheets next.
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Looking good man.
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Looks great, Fuji. :aok
One thing that's bugging me though is the rib effect on the wings. It just looks like series of fuzzy gray stripes.
Here's a technique from Simmer's Paint Shop that might help you improve the effect: http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/forums/f34-general-tutorials/fabric-surfaces-hard-way-718/?garpg=4 (start with page 4, the first 3 pages detail rib placement - which you've already done.)
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Very nice :eek:
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Fugi outstanding!
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Looks great, Fuji. :aok
One thing that's bugging me though is the rib effect on the wings. It just looks like series of fuzzy gray stripes.
Here's a technique from Simmer's Paint Shop that might help you improve the effect: http://www.simmerspaintshop.com/forums/f34-general-tutorials/fabric-surfaces-hard-way-718/?garpg=4 (start with page 4, the first 3 pages detail rib placement - which you've already done.)
Thats pretty much how I did mine. Only difference was I used two shadows just trying to make t look like dirt was accumulating on that section because the rib forces it into the air more than the rest of the wing surface. I'll do one with a highlight and a shadow and see how that looks.
Very nice :eek:
Fugi outstanding!
Thanks guys, still aways to go yet.
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OK, I've run into a problem. I have all the pages done, but the color for the transparency isn't working. I have gotten the file to an index color at 8 bits and the color matches the original file but it still shows in the game. Any suggestions?
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/colorissue_zps7cb3f7bb.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/colorissue_zps7cb3f7bb.jpg.html)
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/colorplane_zps03bcc429.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/colorplane_zps03bcc429.jpg.html)
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no ideas on this?
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This is the file for the damage model correct?
If so try swapping it for the original just to see if it's still an issue.
I haven't worked on any of the WWI planes so I wouldn't be able to tell you anything about it.
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correct, this is the damage of the wing file. If you roll a wwi plane and hit a building you can see what it looks like.
(http://i266.photobucket.com/albums/ii253/maddogjoe_photos/gooddamage_zps957161d3.jpg) (http://s266.photobucket.com/user/maddogjoe_photos/media/gooddamage_zps957161d3.jpg.html)
I have matched the "color" but it doesn't go transparent. I've tried a bunch of things. Im sure it's just a setting I have messed up.
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I hope you get the help you need. I have not been able to attend WW1 Fight club in a while due to my schedule but hopefully I will get to fly skin this eventually.
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so far no help, but Im still working on it.
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If you get really stuck, you could always try to send an email to Skuzzy and see if that generates some ideas.