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General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Cremator on August 10, 2014, 10:14:16 PM

Title: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Cremator on August 10, 2014, 10:14:16 PM
If your going out bomber hunting which plane do you favor? I'm talking from 14k to 25k.  What plane offers speed, firepower, and acceleration qualities that make it suitable for said altitudes?

I hate to keep making threads asking questions but I promise if we were all in a class together I wouldn't be that guy...
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: JunkyII on August 10, 2014, 10:24:52 PM
Make the thread in the Help and Training section if you have a question.

TA 152 has high alt handles, Good intercept ability, guns have great knock down power.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Cremator on August 10, 2014, 10:27:59 PM
I did word it like a question but was just kind of wanting to start a discussion about it. My bad.
I need to check out the 152. Appreciate it...
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: BaldEagl on August 10, 2014, 10:31:11 PM
I like the 190A-8 with the 30mm gun package. Tons of firepower, lots of ENY and good armor.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: caldera on August 10, 2014, 10:37:55 PM
109G-2 and later (gondolas preferred)
110G with light gun package (no rockets)
190
P-47
Mosquito
La-7
410 with 30mm
152
P-51
Tempest
Spit 8, 9, 14, 16
P-38

Any of these will work well.  Take your pick.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: DrBone1 on August 10, 2014, 10:55:41 PM
If you have the patience to go that high you are a lot better then me.

If they ain't below 10k I ain't going for them  :lol honestly you are wasting more time climbing for those buffs when you can shoot down more than 10 planes in the time it took you to climb to that 1 set of Buffs, now if you are speaking if there are multiple sets inb and early warning about 3 sectors out I may roll a 262.

Just my whole look on the Buff hunting deal too much time for little reward.  :salute

edit: Pm sent.  :aok
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: MK-84 on August 10, 2014, 11:16:45 PM
If your going out bomber hunting which plane do you favor? I'm talking from 14k to 25k.  What plane offers speed, firepower, and acceleration qualities that make it suitable for said altitudes?

I hate to keep making threads asking questions but I promise if we were all in a class together I wouldn't be that guy...
The (should be) obvious answer is the ME262, or the ME163.  But I dont think thats what you are looking for as an answer.

     For attacking bombers at 14-25k a 109G14 with the 20mm gondolas and the 30mm hub would be an excellent choice, with convergence of the 30mm set at 450 and the 20mm set at 350.  The G14 climbs very well, has decent speed and good acceleration even weighted down this much.  The tricky part is the poor high speed handling, particularly if you want to make a diving attack on a target that's closer to 25k alt.
    
    
    

Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Mongoose on August 10, 2014, 11:17:46 PM
I hate to keep making threads asking questions but I promise if we were all in a class together I wouldn't be that guy...

Why?  It's OK to be that guy.  The only way to get questions answered is to ask them.  

I used to be a software trainer.  I taught people how to use their computers.  Nowdays I am more in the network admin business, but I still get to teach a class occasionally.  When people ask questions, I know they are thinking about what I am saying.  Often "that guy" is asking the questions that everyone else wants or needs to have answered, but they are afraid to ask.  

  Or they're afraid of being "that guy".
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Patches1 on August 11, 2014, 12:45:21 AM
I have not flown much in the past year or so due to real life issues, but, personally, I've always had good results with the F4U series. If you and are not afraid of carrying 100% fuel and drop tanks, and if you are willing to take the time to climb to 25-28k and utilize good fuel and engine management, and if you have the patience to track bombers on radar to put yourself on an interception course, I think you will be surprised with the way the F4U handles at high altitude and the results you can obtain with patience and cunning. The reason I fly the F4U series almost exclusively is because of it's versatility as a fighter, fighter-bomber, bomber hunter, and add in the fact that it can take off and land from aircraft carriers, well, it just makes the aircraft one of the most rounded and challenging aircraft in the plane-set.

Caldera offers several choices for bomber hunting and I do not disagree with him; but I will point out that each aircraft requires a different set of skills to fly well against bombers...that's a lot of skills to learn, and none of these aircraft are available on aircraft carriers!

Quote
109G-2 and later (gondolas preferred)
110G with light gun package (no rockets)
190
P-47
Mosquito
La-7
410 with 30mm
152
P-51
Tempest
Spit 8, 9, 14, 16
P-38

DrBone1 points out that patience is not in his game bag when it comes to bombers and he prefers to resort to his perk pool and he wants more than a single set of bombers to make it worth his while...and that is fine, also.

Quote
If you have the patience to go that high you are a lot better then me.

If they ain't below 10k I ain't going for them  Hehe! honestly you are wasting more time climbing for those buffs when you can shoot down more than 10 planes in the time it took you to climb to that 1 set of Buffs, now if you are speaking if there are multiple sets inb and early warning about 3 sectors out I may roll a 262.

Just my whole look on the Buff hunting deal too much time for little reward.  salute

There are many options available to do the job, but I challenge you to learn a single aircraft that can do them all, the F4U!

Oh! Just as a side note and if you are interested, I set all of my guns' convergence to 275 and have learned to fly with it set there. I have learned that there is no "magic" convergence whether fighting at 25k, or on the deck, and whether using 50 cals, or 20mm hispanos, the end result is the same.

Good luck, and good hunting!

Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Swoop on August 11, 2014, 05:45:34 AM
For 15k (ish) buffs I prefer the 190A8.  Great armour, great gun package.

For stratospheric buffs I prefer the P-47M.  The higher you climb the better it feels and it's got a great rate of climb on WEP.  I'm sure the 190/110/410 etc have better gun packages but by the time you've climbed to attack altitude the enemy buffs have already dropped their load.

*If* you've got the sixth sense to know that a 30k buff raid is on the way then something with cannons would be preferable but if I was psychic I'd have already won the lottery and bought my own Spitfire.

Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Lusche on August 11, 2014, 08:06:07 AM
For stratospheric buffs I prefer the P-47M.  The higher you climb the better it feels and it's got a great rate of climb on WEP.  I'm sure the 190/110/410 etc have better gun packages but by the time you've climbed to attack altitude the enemy buffs have already dropped their load.



And WEP performance is what gives the Ta 152H one big performance advantage over the P-47M for buff hunting: You never have to think about it. The 10/5 WEP cycle of the Ta means you can wep your climb all way up to 27k to get into a favorable intercept position, and in few minutes you got enough WEP time back to combat them - or the fighters escorting them. The 47M has only a 5/10min WEP cycle, meaning you have to consider carefully when to engage it and when not. In one minute under MIL power, the 47M gets back 30 seconds of WEP, the Ta 152H 2 minutes!

Overall the Ta is great to hunt bombers at any altitude. WEP time, climb rate and top speed up to the highest altitudes, loiter time and massive firepower. It also had it 'glass chin' removed, the radiator is not anywhere vulnerable as it used to be for many years.

Below 25k actually almost any but most of the EW planes will do, 190A8, Jugs, even the P-51B is doing fine. If you don't have to worry about enemy escorts and can get to altitude in time, the Me 410 is devastating against any bomber up to that altitude, especially with the MK 103 loadout.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Drane on August 11, 2014, 08:16:03 AM
The TA152 and 109K4 are very fast up high and pack a lot of punch with 30mm cannon. For me these tend to get the radiator shot out or oiled quickly.

Have discovered the Spitfire 14 is very fast and maneuverable up high and the combo of 50cal and 20mm is quite lethal. Drop tank and wep will get you to 20k quick but it still climbs quick from there.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Lusche on August 11, 2014, 08:18:42 AM
The TA152 and 109K4 are very fast up high and pack a lot of punch with 30mm cannon. For me these tend to get the radiator shot out or oiled quickly.

Have discovered the Spitfire 14 is very fast and maneuverable up high and the combo of 50cal and 20mm is quite lethal. Drop tank and wep will get you to 20k quick but it still climbs quick from there.

As a bomber pilot, I was always happy to see a Spitfire, no matter which model, because of their high vulnerability. A Ta or 109K might lose their radiator, but two pings to a Spitfire's wing and it's gone  :devil
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Hap on August 11, 2014, 08:21:32 AM
If your going out bomber hunting which plane do you favor? I'm talking from 14k to 25k.

22K is the hot rod limit for the FW190's excluding the Ta152.

Given your parameters, A8 with all the guns or four 20 mils.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Drane on August 11, 2014, 08:25:42 AM
As a bomber pilot, I was always happy to see a Spitfire, no matter which model, because of their high vulnerability. A Ta or 109K might lose their radiator, but two pings to a Spitfire's wing and it's gone  :devil

We shall see!  :devil
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Swoop on August 11, 2014, 08:54:38 AM

It also had it 'glass chin' removed, the radiator is not anywhere vulnerable as it used to be for many years.

Now that is worth knowing.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Cremator on August 11, 2014, 08:57:10 AM
Appreciate the input guys....<S>  I'm fixing to tinker around with the 152 next chance I get..

I like the idea and concept of the 410.  When I started playing again and saw it in the hanger I was tickled pink.  I played around with it some. I have a hard time getting it up to speed, handles like a pig.  I like fast and it just seems to lack but I'm sure its pilot error and just not knowing...
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Lusche on August 11, 2014, 09:24:42 AM
 I like fast and it just seems to lack but I'm sure its pilot error and just not knowing...

Not a pilot error - it IS a pig.
But it's a pig with the best gun package possible. ;)
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Triton28 on August 11, 2014, 09:27:06 AM
P-38's make bomber pilots cry.    :aok

If you're above say 12-15k, just use some cross control as you make your overhead pass and you'll stay in control and ready to pwn. 
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: bozon on August 11, 2014, 09:29:30 AM
Under 20k bomber destruction is best served by a mosquito VI for me, though most quad-cannons fighters will do just fine. The Tempest is the fastest of the quad-cannons fighters at these altitudes which makes it easier to position for an attack. Above that, the VI starts to fall far behind other planes in performance. If we had one of the "F" (fighter) versions (F.30, please HTC? :pray) it would still be good past 20k. The only problem with the mossie is that it is relatively a large target for the buff guns and for some reason quite vulnerable to damage for its size (against historical reputation). Two engines do compensate to some extent.

The Ta152 is probably the best for high alt buff hunting. P47M comes close, but 0.5s are not as good as cannons.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Dragon on August 11, 2014, 09:35:57 AM
152 or 47M are my bomber killers.  I use the 47M for loitering at 25K, 152 for quick launch and intercept.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: guncrasher on August 11, 2014, 09:40:03 AM
110.  that's the only airplane that can get kills from well over 1k out before the gunners can even touch me.  too bad it is really slow.


semp
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: DrBone1 on August 11, 2014, 11:01:41 AM

There are many options available to do the job, but I challenge you to learn a single aircraft that can do them all, the F4U!

Oh! Just as a side note and if you are interested, I set all of my guns' convergence to 275 and have learned to fly with it set there. I have learned that there is no "magic" convergence whether fighting at 25k, or on the deck, and whether using 50 cals, or 20mm hispanos, the end result is the same.

Good luck, and good hunting!


I have my convergence at 650 on all the A/C that I fly.

I would never be able to do what some of you guys do because it seems more of a waste rather than rewarding.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Scca on August 11, 2014, 11:29:24 AM
109G-2 and later (gondolas preferred)
110G with light gun package (no rockets)
190
P-47
Mosquito
La-7
410 with 30mm
152
P-51
Tempest
Spit 8, 9, 14, 16
P-38

Any of these will work well.  Take your pick.

All good choices...  I prefer the 47-M for bomber hunting, but in the end it's the way you attack them that matters most. 

Regardless of your ride, approaching from dead six is a mistake and even a mediocre will get you eventually.  I get most of my bombers by flying in at 18-20K and looking for the most likely approach direction and setting up on that side of the base.   Each bomber has a weak point, if you exploit it well and have patients, you will win more than them. 

Look me up in the MA if you want me to show you how I do it... (AkMeathd)
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Zoney on August 11, 2014, 12:10:49 PM
Check your 6 AKMeathd, and quit watching videos while you're flying.     :bolt:
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: SFRT - Frenchy on August 11, 2014, 05:49:36 PM
I take the 410 with the 50mm. Why? Because it's bloody fun having to work for it and 50 sniping.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Volron on August 11, 2014, 05:59:55 PM
Normally the Ta-152, especially for high alt intercepts.  Otherwise, I'll take the 109 G-14 with the dola's and the 20mm(4+ sets) or 30mm(3- sets) hub gun, if it's 17k or less.  Wish we had the 109 G-14/AS, then I'd use her more often for higher up.  My other options are the 110 and 410, as well as the 109 K4.  The only issue I have with the K4 is it's low ammunition load, which is why it's low in my interceptor list.  Great climb, good at alt, just bad ammo for me.  Taking the G-14 with the 30mm, since I'm sporting the dola's, isn't a huge issue since I will still have ammo with the dola's once the 30 runs dry.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: puller on August 11, 2014, 06:07:16 PM
152's if your wanting to kill bombers for a long time...

spit 14 if your defending a base from bombers....

110 or 410 if you have a lot of time on your hands....

p-39 if you want to be cool.... :devil
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: HighTone on August 11, 2014, 06:20:21 PM
I prefer a Ki-43 for buff hunting because it's a tad bit tougher than the A6M2.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: puller on August 11, 2014, 06:32:37 PM
I prefer a Ki-43 for buff hunting because it's a tad bit tougher than the A6M2.

Or the Ki-43 for those superior pilots....

Hightone is highly deadly in those rice paper airplanes.... :salute
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: 999000 on August 11, 2014, 06:32:50 PM
Don't listen to these guys ...Like Shultz on Hogan's heroes.. "they know nothing!"    Best dang plane to attack bombers has always been an SBD with a full bomb load! <S>
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Zimme83 on August 11, 2014, 06:39:00 PM
Don't listen to these guys ...Like Shultz on Hogan's heroes.. "they know nothing!"    Best dang plane to attack bombers has always been an SBD with a full bomb load! <S>

 :old: Thats right, noone have ever landed a buff after an encounter with an SBD...
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Tracers on August 11, 2014, 08:01:39 PM
110G salvo two rockets from exactly 1k out.. Boom whole formation down 1 shot. Fire and break off so they can't rear gun ya.  :aok and it'll surprise the hell out of the red guy   :devil

Beer
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Cremator on August 11, 2014, 08:32:43 PM
110G salvo two rockets from exactly 1k out.. Boom whole formation down 1 shot. Fire and break off so they can't rear gun ya.  :aok and it'll surprise the hell out of the red guy   :devil

Beer

I did that once back before I knew you could do it. Just for the heck of it on some Lancasters. My last rocket took out two of the formation. I can only imagine how my face looked when the kills popped up on the screen.  Never done in since but have tried..
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Tracers on August 11, 2014, 09:41:41 PM
I did that once back before I knew you could do it. Just for the heck of it on some Lancasters. My last rocket took out two of the formation. I can only imagine how my face looked when the kills popped up on the screen.  Never done in since but have tried..

It's easy mode but fun as hell! I made myself up a gun sight to judge it right a few years back.. I think there are a few guys from each country use it now but I haven't used it myself for a while, might have to fire up the 110 again now that I'm thinking about it  :devil
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Cremator on August 11, 2014, 10:12:07 PM
I just took up the 152. Outstanding!!!!!!!!  And it seems to fly for days...
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Scca on August 11, 2014, 10:33:55 PM
Tally tonight, 3 B17's in a TU-2 (which earned me an "F U" pm) and 3 from the same group in a Spit XIV.

Bombers are easy kills...
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Cremator on August 11, 2014, 10:37:39 PM
Tally tonight, 3 B17's in a TU-2 (which earned me an "F U" pm) and 3 from the same group in a Spit XIV.

Bombers are easy kills...

I flew over an hour and never intercepted one. Fun eitherway.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: JunkyII on August 11, 2014, 11:41:37 PM
Don't listen to these guys ...Like Shultz on Hogan's heroes.. "they know nothing!"    Best dang plane to attack bombers has always been an SBD with a full bomb load! <S>
999 is such a troll :)
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Cremator on August 12, 2014, 11:01:56 PM
The 152............. Wow
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Zoney on August 13, 2014, 10:31:07 AM
The 152............. Wow

Ain't she amazing?  I really like flying her myself sir, glad you've "discovered" her  :cheers:
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Muzzy on August 13, 2014, 11:24:49 AM
Surprisingly, the best plane for me to kill buffs in is an FM2, provided I have altitude. It's small size makes it a tough target, and it handles really well in a dive. You'd think the 4x.50's wouldn't be enough, but it has a lot of ammo, and the good handling characteristics make it very easy to lock onto a wing root and take off the wing.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Wiley on August 13, 2014, 12:05:20 PM
"Mechanically" the 152 is the best choice.

In my hands, any P47 works better for me.  The 8x50s are good damage, and you've got enough ammo for at least 2 sets if you're spraying.  The only downside is the guns take a little bit longer to remove a wing than cannons most of the time.

I also find my survivability in the jug is a lot higher than a 152/190.  If I get oiled on the way in, that just means I should start heading home after I kill the rest of the formation.  And maybe an escort or two.  190 engines seem to die a lot easier when they get shot.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Muzzy on August 13, 2014, 12:39:10 PM
"Mechanically" the 152 is the best choice.

In my hands, any P47 works better for me.  The 8x50s are good damage, and you've got enough ammo for at least 2 sets if you're spraying.  The only downside is the guns take a little bit longer to remove a wing than cannons most of the time.

I also find my survivability in the jug is a lot higher than a 152/190.  If I get oiled on the way in, that just means I should start heading home after I kill the rest of the formation.  And maybe an escort or two.  190 engines seem to die a lot easier when they get shot.

Wiley.

I've noticed that about the 190 as well, especially the Dora.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Slate on August 14, 2014, 10:11:51 AM
I've noticed that about the 190 as well, especially the Dora.

   Myself also. I had a Ta152 up after some mass bombers the other day and there was a P47 flying as escort alone. At 33k he was a little hard to climb to and was doing a good job taking me off the bombers so I had to dispatch him first and the Ta had little problem taking him out.
   However he did not sacrifice himself in vain as the bombers were able to dump on the city strat. Then as I attacked the formation I was PW in short order and unable to take down a single bomber before being forced to rtb.  :salute  Dickweeds
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: icepac on August 20, 2014, 09:20:33 AM
For me, effective bomber hunting starts with watching the dar bars and which fields they came from.

If I see dar bars coming from high altitude fields deep in enemy territory, I watch thier progress to see if my country is the target and then send a 110g to 34k AFK climbing to where I am guessing the buffs will show up.

Then I come back and see what's around me within the radius of my range.

If done right, you can intercept most any plane with most any plane if you have enough altitude advantage.

A mossie at 39,000 feet has an amazing loiter time for higher or faster targets/ but it suffers pilot wounds easily as if had zero armor.

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8384/8569760006_4b62be2ba0_c.jpg)


A 262 is fast enough once you get up there that you can catch up to someone's buffs and catch them unaware.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7398/9188742728_cc14d29735_c.jpg)
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Karnak on August 20, 2014, 11:16:22 AM
A mossie at 39,000 feet has an amazing loiter time for higher or faster targets/ but it suffers pilot wounds easily as if had zero armor.
Mossie has armor.  I don't know where you got the idea that it didn't.  The pilot's seat is armored, the windscreen is bulletproof glass like almost every other fighter and it has an armor plate behind the instrument panel.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Lusche on August 20, 2014, 11:17:27 AM
Mossie has armor.  I don't know where you got the idea that it didn't.  The pilot's seat is armored, the windscreen is bulletproof glass like almost every other fighter and it has an armor plate behind the instrument panel.

"As if", not "as it" ;)
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Karnak on August 20, 2014, 11:18:50 AM
"As if", not "as it" ;)
Touche.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Drane on August 20, 2014, 12:57:40 PM
Agreed mossie gets pilot wounds easy. Used to take them up for intercept a lot.

Then started getting pilot wounds nearly every flight against bombers up high.  :bhead

Below 22k alt mossie rules!  :rock
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Rich46yo on August 20, 2014, 03:50:42 PM
Im surprised im not seeing "K4" more here.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Wiley on August 20, 2014, 03:56:05 PM
Im surprised im not seeing "K4" more here.

Silly string dispersion at range, short clip, short legs.  If you're a 30mm master it might be ok, but I'd rather have something with a pair of 20mm or a bunch of 50s for multiple buffs.

The main attraction with the K4 is time to alt, and I've used it in the past to go after a buff I know is relatively low alt (10-15k) and inbound from just outside dar or so.  If they're high or you're just planning on going out looking for buffs that are likely to be out there, there are many more user friendly planes to use.

Wiley.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: Lusche on August 20, 2014, 04:00:24 PM
I'm surprised I'm not seeing "K4" more here.

It's a great (and possibly the best) interceptor (Komet aside), but to me the term "bomber hunting" implies a different, more offensive way to prowl the skies in search of bombers, with enough time to climb before you begin your patrol.
In that case I prefer something with much longer legs and a larger clip.
Title: Re: Effective bomber hunting
Post by: lunatic1 on August 20, 2014, 04:48:24 PM
to me alot of planes are good bomber-hunter/killer's--as long as you don't go in straight for their six