Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Technical Support => Topic started by: Ratsy on August 13, 2014, 07:59:06 AM
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Team -
On paper the computer I built in the spring of this year is a pretty stout mid-range rig.
I am not happy with the amount of 'dumbing down' I've had to do to get to 60fps in the main arena.
Am I missing something obvious/critical in the set up?
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System Information
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Time of this report: 8/13/2014, 07:46:08
Machine name: EARTHI
Operating System: Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit (6.1, Build 7601) Service Pack 1 (7601.win7sp1_gdr.140303-2144)
Language: English (Regional Setting: English)
System Manufacturer: System manufacturer
System Model: System Product Name
BIOS: BIOS Date: 10/15/13 17:33:48 Ver: 45.02
Processor: Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-4820K CPU @ 3.70GHz (8 CPUs), ~3.7GHz
Memory: 16384MB RAM
Available OS Memory: 16324MB RAM
Page File: 3672MB used, 28974MB available
Windows Dir: C:\Windows
DirectX Version: DirectX 11
DX Setup Parameters: Not found
User DPI Setting: Using System DPI
System DPI Setting: 96 DPI (100 percent)
DWM DPI Scaling: Disabled
DxDiag Version: 6.01.7601.17514 64bit Unicode
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DxDiag Notes
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Display Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 1: No problems found.
Sound Tab 2: No problems found.
Input Tab: No problems found.
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DirectX Debug Levels
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Direct3D: 0/4 (retail)
DirectDraw: 0/4 (retail)
DirectInput: 0/5 (retail)
DirectMusic: 0/5 (retail)
DirectPlay: 0/9 (retail)
DirectSound: 0/5 (retail)
DirectShow: 0/6 (retail)
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Display Devices
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Card name: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 760
Manufacturer: NVIDIA
Chip type: GeForce GTX 760
DAC type: Integrated RAMDAC
Device Key: Enum\PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_1187&SUBSYS_37683842&REV_A1
Display Memory: 3742 MB
Dedicated Memory: 4027 MB
Shared Memory: 3810 MB
Current Mode: 1920 x 1080 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Monitor Name: Generic PnP Monitor
Monitor Model: VG248
Monitor Id: ACI24E1
Native Mode: 1920 x 1080(p) (60.000Hz)
Output Type: DVI
Driver Name: nvd3dumx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvwgf2umx.dll,nvd3dum,nvwgf2um,nvwgf2um
Driver File Version: 9.18.0013.4052 (English)
Driver Version: 9.18.13.4052
DDI Version: 11
Driver Model: WDDM 1.1
Driver Attributes: Final Retail
Driver Date/Size: 7/2/2014 15:48:32, 17555104 bytes
WHQL Logo'd: Yes
WHQL Date Stamp:
Device Identifier: {D7B71E3E-52C7-11CF-2654-65171CC2C435}
Vendor ID: 0x10DE
Device ID: 0x1187
SubSys ID: 0x37683842
Revision ID: 0x00A1
Driver Strong Name: oem21.inf:NVIDIA_SetA_Devices.NTamd64.6 .1:Section093:9.18.13.4052:pci\ven_10de&dev_1187
Rank Of Driver: 00E02001
Video Accel: ModeMPEG2_A ModeMPEG2_C ModeVC1_C ModeWMV9_C
Deinterlace Caps: {6CB69578-7617-4637-91E5-1C02DB810285}: Format(In/Out)=(YUY2,YUY2) Frames(Prev/Fwd/Back)=(0,0,0) Caps=VideoProcess_YUV2RGB VideoProcess_StretchX VideoProcess_StretchY DeinterlaceTech_PixelAdaptive
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D3D9 Overlay: Supported
DXVA-HD: Supported
DDraw Status: Enabled
D3D Status: Enabled
AGP Status: Enabled
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That sounds serious enough for most of the eye candy. Someone with a better knowledge of page file usage may be able to tell whether you have too much action in the background.
As for dumbing down, the biggest resource hog is the Environment mapping slider. Hardly any current computer can run at a solid 60 fps with it on full. It's a killer, intended to those who have no limit in their budget.
And hopefully you have installed your motherboard drivers instead of using the generic Windows ones.
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I think the first question is, what have you had to 'dumb down'? I'm guessing shadows and environment mapping?
Wiley.
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Note too the slider adds very little to game for what it takes from your machine. Go to offline and try different setting paying close attention of what gives you the most bang for the buck. leave the slider off till you are happy with the setting then see if it will handle the slider.
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Yep...Environment is slid back to 50%.
Shadows are pretty much turned off.
I have all the bump stuff working, however.
The Mobo bios revision that came with the card is still current.
I know I shouldn't complain about 59-60 FPS, but I was thinking that it should be higher based on the hardware. I just wanted to make sure I didn't screw something up in the hardware configuration.
Thanks for the responses.
:salute
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I didn't actually mean the bios revision, I was talking about the motherboard chipset drivers.
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Yep...Environment is slid back to 50%.
Shadows are pretty much turned off.
I have all the bump stuff working, however.
The Mobo bios revision that came with the card is still current.
I know I shouldn't complain about 59-60 FPS, but I was thinking that it should be higher based on the hardware. I just wanted to make sure I didn't screw something up in the hardware configuration.
Thanks for the responses.
:salute
Single monitor? Environment's the biggest factor. Turn it off, or one notch up from lowest, and you should be able to have max everything else. IMO Building shadows are a low priority and can cause a frame rate hit when town is visible too.
59-60 is what you'll get with vsync on (which you should leave on), because that's what your monitor is running at. If it's staying at steady 59-60 pretty much regardless of what is going on, you're all good.
Wiley.
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You don't need Em. Turn it off, everything else should be at max with shadow at 2048. solid 59 fps with occasional dips to 55 or so.
out of curiosity do you have wireless isp? Or belong to a file sharing program. And have you tested for malware.
semp
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Turning off Environment.
Chipset drivers are all Intel.
I have a wired connection to my ISP. No file sharing program. Moved Dropbox to non-gaming rig. I do have a Synology unit on the LAN. The monitoring for it is 'on demand' so no overhead from that.
Malware. Up until yesterday I had the freebie Avira loaded. I'm going to reload it today. I couldn't sleep last night. :eek: As far as I can tell all my services and processes are accounted for.
I have two 760's in this box, but all my testing has been with SLI disabled.
I'll turn off building shadows...they make me have to think before dropping bombs on them, anyway.
I have turned everything on presently and it dropped my fps to 27 (offline).
I'm going back in now to selectively reduce features for performance.
I appreciate the pointers here. I am disappointed with how these cards are performing tho.
:salute
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With the slider off, things should start looking up. I wish HTC would just do away with it. I think it has caused more trouble than any other graphic setting. It just looks so innocent.
The next on the list is ground clutter. In certain situations like very near the ground , it will knock down FPS in a big way.
You have a super system so don't sweat these small cut backs. Everyone cuts back something.
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Forgive me if the verbage isn't precise, but should be close enough to figure it out.
If it were me, I'd disable in this order:
Environment mapping
Shadows on buildings
Shadows on other vehicles
Shadow smoothing
Shadow texture size 1 setting less than max.
You might be able to get away with just turning off environment mapping and lowering shadow texture size to the second highest setting and turning off shadow smoothing. If that seemed ok in offline, I'd do a test flyby on town before calling it good just to make sure it doesn't bog down looking at all the buildings casting shadows.
If memory serves, I'm running with the above settings on an ati 5770, shadow size might be 2 down from max, but I don't think it is. The only time I notice a framerate issue is in FSO when a mass of planes launches from the runway.
Wiley.
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Isn't the Dedicated and Shared memory suppose to add up to the Display memory?
Display Memory: 3742 MB
Dedicated Memory: 4027 MB
Shared Memory: 3810 MB
So shouldn't the display memory read around 7837 MB?
Could this be an issue?
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For testing purposes turn off Vsync and check frame rates,I think you'll be surprized!
Be sure to turn Vsync back on for game play and you will see the frame rate match the refresh rate,which for your monitor is 60Hz. this will amount to 59/60 frames.
Wiley has pointed out a good performance check,but he missed one thing! Check your AA setting in the video settings on startup page,if you are using full AA and the environment map you can run out of vid memory.
AH and SLI dont play nice,if it was me I'd run a single card unless you can afford a case of premium scotch in which case you may be able to bribe HTC into writing an SLI profile just for you! :devil
:salute
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Thanks for all the tips and tricks, guys.
We can only hope that Dale doesn't drink single malts! Maybe some of the graphics tester guys will pass the hat?
I have been getting 59/60 with VSYNC off.
I'm going to do some more reading about SLI. The last time I spent money on this was back in the XP days and installing it made a helluva impact on the games of that era. Perhaps my expectation for SLI in AH was based on the mysterious good old days.
This community is strong because of the guys, like you, that never say NOOB DOOBER.
:salute
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Thanks for all the tips and tricks, guys.
We can only hope that Dale doesn't drink single malts! Maybe some of the graphics tester guys will pass the hat?
I have been getting 59/60 with VSYNC off.
I'm going to do some more reading about SLI. The last time I spent money on this was back in the XP days and installing it made a helluva impact on the games of that era. Perhaps my expectation for SLI in AH was based on the mysterious good old days.
This community is strong because of the guys, like you, that never say NOOB DOOBER.
:salute
big mistake vsync should always be on. always. you definately have a problem with your computer as you should have same fps as mine with everything on except em.
one question what is your video card manufacturer and do you use their drives instead of going to nvidia and download their generic drivers.
my guess is pointing to malware that is hogging up resources.
semp
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We can only hope that Dale doesn't drink single malts!
He does. Cragganmore Distiller's Edition 1997 to be exact. Other versions of the same brand might do...
As for AA: check that you don't have it enabled in the nVidia control panel settings! If you need it for other games, set it on "Application controlled", for AH only set it off. Depending on the size of your monitor you might want to add one notch of AA in the AH video settings if your cockpit frames look jagged, but with HiRes textures on a regular 1920 x 1080 22" monitor even that might be unnecessary. Old eyes seem to do some anti-aliasing by themselves!
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Thank God for Single Malts!
Semp - You and I are thinking alike here. I am running Nvidia drivers on the cards. I'll check in with the EVGA website today and see if they are publishing their own. I am also concerned that I might have an infection. It would be worth my peace of mind to buy the commercial version of Avira and be done with it. I've run the freebie for about 5 years and it has nabbed a bunch of trojans in that time.
I won't quit on this until it performs properly.
:salute
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Thanks for all the tips and tricks, guys.
We can only hope that Dale doesn't drink single malts! Maybe some of the graphics tester guys will pass the hat?
I have been getting 59/60 with VSYNC off.
I'm going to do some more reading about SLI. The last time I spent money on this was back in the XP days and installing it made a helluva impact on the games of that era. Perhaps my expectation for SLI in AH was based on the mysterious good old days.
This community is strong because of the guys, like you, that never say NOOB DOOBER.
:salute
If you're getting 59/60 and it's never going above that with VSync turned off in AH, most likely it's enabled somewhere in your NVidia control panel. I'd set that to application controlled when you do the same for your anti aliasing. Edit: Just to be clear, VSync off ONLY for testing purposes, to see what effect changing settings are having. When you're playing 'for real', VSync should ALWAYS be on.
Wiley.
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Thank God for Single Malts!
It would be worth my peace of mind to buy the commercial version of Avira and be done with it. I've run the freebie for about 5 years and it has nabbed a bunch of trojans in that time.
I won't quit on this until it performs properly.
:salute
The paid version can't find viruses any better than the free one. It just has more functions to justify the price. For your peace of mind I'd suggest you to run several scanners of various types, since a regular anti-virus doesn't usually find all of the resource hungry nasties. Heck, some people consider many of them as helping enhancers!
If you want to dig real deep, start with a bootable Rescue-CD. Avira has one, but since you already have it installed, you might want to try something else, like F-Secure or Kaspersky.
If you think your computer is relatively clean, try this kind of a cocktail: Malwarebytes' AntiMalware for non-viruses, Eset Online Scanner with the "potentially unwanted/unsafe" options checked under Advanced and continuing with reputable online scanners by F-secure, Kaspersky, Panda or TrendMicro Housecall. Notice I didn't mention Norton or McAfee, they offer their "free scanners" which only do what the name suggests: Scan without cleaning.
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Thank God for Single Malts!
Semp - You and I are thinking alike here. I am running Nvidia drivers on the cards. I'll check in with the EVGA website today and see if they are publishing their own. I am also concerned that I might have an infection. It would be worth my peace of mind to buy the commercial version of Avira and be done with it. I've run the freebie for about 5 years and it has nabbed a bunch of trojans in that time.
I won't quit on this until it performs properly.
:salute
Ratsy,
I would like to offer some suggestions to try to help out as I also have a similar system as you (look in my sig below. Outside of the vid card...I'm running a GTX 780 Ti which is a pretty big leap over your 760).
Your platform is an old but very good set up....I'm going to assume that your mem is a Quad Channel kit (4x4Gb DIMMS), yes? There is no reason to buy an Intel X79 chipset mobo that costs 50% more than a Z68, Z77, Z87 or Z97 chipset mobo just to use it in Dual Channel mem configuration.........
I'm also assuming that the CPU & mem is not OC'd as from my experience this platform should be able to run this game the way you desire w/o any user-induced OC'ing. That's not to say that you can't or shouldn't OC it.....that's up to you. Just saying that out of the box it isn't needed.
Now for the vid card as IMO it is here where you're frustrations are.......................... ...
1st thing to note here.....your GTX 760 card is on par w/ the 1st gen Kepler-based GTX 670 series w/ GPU Boost 2.0 improvements along w/ better power management & BIOS tweaks...& will never be able to fully optimize your CPU capability in a single card configuration.....especially when trying to use in-game max everything graphics-wise. Just a fact. That card is going to stumbleIf your desired goal is max everything graphics-wise & stay w/ a single card solution (which I recommend for AH) then you will need to go to the GTX 780 series of vid cards.....that is if you intend to stay w/ Nvidia vid cards. I would recommend the 780Ti now or wait for the new Nvidia offerings coming very soon. I can attest that you will get as close to max graphics performance AND steady 59-60 FPS in AH as you can get in AH's current configuration w/ a GTX 780TI on that platform....& this includes EM.........and at 2560x1440 res.......
Just for statement my GTX 780 Ti vid card can't load up my I7 4820K CPU fully in stock configuration due to Turbo Cache as the CPU will clock itself up to 3.9 GHz if needed....................... .
But to help you get the most out of your current card here are some items that you can try that I have tested to be viable using Nvidia Kepler-based GPU's:
1. GPU Boost 2.0--What you have read or heard concerning how this works is true.....except the 1 thing that has never been mentioned by Nvidia or any one else but thru my testing I have found that GPU Boost also determines the GPU speed boost range by the actual graphics setting LEVEL for AF & AA in particular but also to some degree the Trans AA & Texture Quality setting levels. If you use the AH in-game AA settings as found in the Video Settings these Kepler-based GPU's will most likely not boost to the vBIOS set max boost level regardless of GPU power/temp being below the threshold level....even w/ the slider set at Most. I have found that the in-game AA & AF coding calls are interpreted by the Nvidia GPU Boost as not aggressive enough & will set the GPU speed lower than the BASE clock speeds most of the time which causes issues....mostly stuttering but can cause crashes as the GPU is underpowered. If you have PrecisionX or Afterburner installed you can see this plainly for yourself....just run the game then exit out & pull either up & observe the graphed GPU speeds along w/ power/temp levels. Don't be surprised to see what I just described.................... ................
There are 2 ways to overcome this......either A. use the in-game AA settings then set the Nvidia driver for AF to use the 3D application settings then set the AA to Enhance the 3D application settings then set the level of AA you want to use for enhancement then set all other Nvidia driver settings for max settings or B. disable the in-game AA settings entirely (set slider to None) then set the Nvidia driver for AF to Override the 3D application setting & set the level to 16x (max), set the AA to Override the 3D application setting & set the AA level to a minimum of 16xCSAA up to 32xCSAA (max) then set all other driver settings to max. The Nvidia driver setting calls are tuned to tell GPU Boost to load the GPU up to the BIOS-set max speed level & as long as the GPU power/temp levels stay below the threshold levels the card will stay fully bosted which will help the gameplay. If you set any of these settings at less than stated here then GPU Boost will start setting a lower boost speed range that is proportional to the driver SETTING level selected. I recommend using B myself & keep the driver setting at max so the GPU will boost to full speed then use the other in-game graphics settings as found at the clipboard to fine tune. I have tested this to be true w/ GPU Boost 1.0 & 2.0 as I have a GTX 670 FTW, a GTX TITAN & a GTX 780TI vid card & verified this behavior on all 3 of them. I have posted all this in earlier threads on this BBS & some may not agree w/ this but try it for yourself then judge. Now in the upcoming graphics package upgrade this may not be an issue anymore...................... ...
We will see.
2. Adaptive or Prefer Max Power Settings. I know a lot of folks will suggest to set this to prefer max power setting.....I recommend that you don't waste your time as all this is controlled by GPU Boost anyway so unless you like your GPU to run at full GPU speeds while in 2D mode leave this set for Adaptive & forget about it......unless you want to get 1 of the modded BIOS copies that disable GPU Boost & is modded to have the Kepler GPU act like a Fermi GPU but still have the power/temp throttling capability of GPU Boost. You'll have to flash your card to get this...............I really don't recommend that unless you're a die-hard user.
3. V-Synch. In another thread in this BBS the subject of v-synch came up & Skuzzy made the statement to not use the vid card driver to set this as it will cause issues. I tested this out & found that AH is natively coded to use V-synch & I assume triple buffer...regardless of whether you are using the in-game AA settings or not...& as such there is no need to use the driver settings for this at all. IOW's Skuzzy was right. Just set the vid card driver to use the 3D application settings & set triple buffer to none & be happy about it. Doing anything else is just opening the door for code collusion & issues......mostly noticed thru stuttering. If you just HAVE to run & not want V-synch on then turn it off in the in-game video settings.....not using the driver settings. Tested & verified....been there, done that....
4. Texture Res. If you want to use all the other graphics settings at max....whether in-game or driver level...then set the texture res in-game for 512 instead of 1024 (or lower if you desire). You can make up for some of the granularity of the lower texture resolution w/ the driver quality settings & also unload some of the graphics load on the vid card to achieve an acceptable visual/gameplay compromise....why I recommend to set this at the driver level to High Quality (full trilinear texture filtering) then use the in-game settings to "tune" the final result. IMO far too much emphasis is put on FPS instead of smoothness of gameplay, ie the "game-experience". How SMOOTH does the game feel & play at max graphics settings is the true test of a computer's set up & ability. I have witnessed my box constantly maintain 59-60 FPS & exhibit micro-stuttering that later I had found to be caused by me having the driver set to V-synch not knowing that the game was natively coded to make V-synch calls so the game is sending instructions to the driver to instruct the GPU to render this according to the game instructions & the driver is also giving instructions to the GPU to render this according to the driver set levels.....at the same time.......yeah. Sometimes the issue(s) ain't caused by the hardware..................... ..................
If you'll use what I've suggested here I'm hopeful that you will find some acceptable level of satisfaction w/ your current set up.
And 1 last note.......................
Environmental Mapping does have a tactical use in the game. In another thread I also stated this use. It can help a con that is flying a plane using an unpainted skin (P51D, P47D, B17, B24, B29, LA, Yak, etc) to better hide in the sun due to the EM light reflection mapping (harder to pick out of the "glare" of the sun) when on the attack & to easily pick up same con on the deck doing NOE due to the EM reflection mapping lighting the con up against a darker background. This is a fact as I use EM & have spotted many a con or friendly down on the deck regardless of alt & have learned to NEVER fly w/ the sun to your 6 for any length of time..........been hit several times while looking back at the sun then all of a sudden see tracers coming out of the glare.....................
The problem is that unless you invest in enough computer power (especially vid card GPU power) to adequately run w/ it enabled, you pay the performance penality. I see EM being made much more user friendly when done under Shader 3.0 as the vid card's shader cores will offload the GPU of rendering this.
I hope something said here may be of some help to you.
:salute
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Pudgie and all,
Thanks again. I have been on a semi-epic road trip for the last week and won't be home until Tuesday. The computer was left with XGamerPC in San Antonio for diags and stress tests. Roger reported that the platform is clean and running properly. When I get home we're going to 'prove' the GPU's.
I am wasted from the road presently but when I get home I will honor your inputs by reading them properly.
I've just skimmed tonight, but I've seen some things that lead me to believe I have some unrealistic expectations of this rig. I.e. Hindsight suggests I should have gotten a single 780ti and skipped the SLI approach. We shall see. I will report back here Wednesday or Thursday.
Muchas!
:salute
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Ratsy,
Good deal bud.......hope you get rested......................
I want to add 1 more item to my last post concerning the using of V-synch w/ Nvidia driver vs AH in-game coding of V-synch:
It occurred to me that I hadn't thought about the inverse of what I posted, ie that you actually CAN disable the AH in-game v-synch coding by checking the box in video settings.
Then this would allow you to actually USE the Nvidia driver settings for v-synch, which should allow you to use the advanced Nvidia coding concerning this w/o interference from the in-game coding..........
So I ran a test to check this out...............I wished I had thought of this before now as it definitely works!
If you do all the stuff I had mentioned this will actually put the Nvidia driver in complete clean control of the AF, AA, Trans AA, all TF, TB & V-synch calls. Then the in-game graphics settings as found on the clipboard once you're actually in the game will give you control of fine tuning the final results.
What I noticed w/ my box is when I did this & went in the game the SMOOTHNESS of the gameplay was noticeably better than before.
This may be due to the fact that since the Nvidia driver is now fully controlling the GPU concerning the "meat" of the rendering aspects the GPU & CC's are being fully optimized, at least that is MHO.......................... ..
You might try this for yourself as YMMV.
Hope this helps you out as well.
:salute
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Follow Up:
Thanks again for the input.
As it turns out my hardware is clean. The 760's both passed all diagnostics. I turned off AA in Aces High and allowed Nvidia game experience to control it. No appreciable difference on the benchmarks. I did the same to another computer running a 460 and had in-game frame rates above 100fps. That proves the technique for me.
At the end of the session, my vendor made me an offer I couldn't refuse and he now owns my 760's and I'll be getting a 780 tomorrow or Monday. I flew FSO with a borrowed 770 tonight using Aces High AA and had a smooth and consistent 60fps with almost everything maxed.
Since AH doesn't see the need to exploit SLI (and it is my primary game) I'll stick with a single 780 and experiment with the AA control.
I am also offloading everything except my gaming software from this rig and I'll freshen the the OpSys in the process. It's a lot of work, but the machine takes too long to boot and there's a bunch of parasites in the services area.
:salute
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Try setting NVidia control panel "Manage 3D Settings", "program settings" tab, "vertical sync", to "Adaptive (Half Refresh Rate)" for Aces High.
If the monitor flicker doesn't annoy you, the system might stabilize AND let you see the eye candy.
This could be a temporary fix while you fine tune your system. Might save some money.
Good luck.
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Just FYI. Proper SLI support starts with the NVidia supplied profile for any given game. Unfortunately, the NVidia supplied profile for Aces High is bad, and has been bad from the start.
Apparently, SLI support requires a game to not use vertical sync as NVidia disables it in the supplied profiles. This is always bad for Aces High. Another issue stems from the various graphic engine updates we have done and are about to to. There is a good chance SLI users will get worse performance given the state of the profile for Aces High, as we migrate forward.
Getting NVidia to change a profile just about requires you to be a AAA game title. Even then it is proving difficult for many companies.
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Since AH doesn't see the need to exploit SLI (and it is my primary game) I'll stick with a single 780 and experiment with the AA control.
Skuzzy - when I wrote that I had a strong suspicion that there was more to the story. Also, I was seeing some stuttering in other software (first person shooters) and wild changes to mouse control using Nvidia-written profiles for those games.
Additionally, Valley and Heaven frame rates and scores were horribly low using the SLI-ed 760's.
My hardware expertise is limited to chopping the tops off of the mountains, alas. This will doom me to having to 'buy up', I suppose. I'm at my financial limit with a 780.
Thanks to all for help and support.
:salute