Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Someguy63 on August 27, 2014, 08:31:29 PM
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There are times when I simply cannot decipher exactly where the enemy is as of E states. Basically when I merge, am chasing an opponent into the vertical, roping the enemy, or when I am diving on them and lining up a shot, I am skeptical about them having as much E as I think.
I do have a little idea how to judge it...and I am right…on occasions. :noid
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:huh
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:huh
:noid
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It takes a lot of practice and experience (from a lot of practice) to judge the opponent's energy state. Then, just when you think you're starting to get the hang of it, you'll run across the guy who is a master at disguising his energy level and using it to deceive and kill you. :O. Never give up learning and expanding your experience base. :salute
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There are a couple of tells that you can use to help judge their E state.
One way is visually judging it. You can do this by using reference points on the ground below them. How fast does it take for them to get from point A to point B (or from "that barn" to "this clump of trees"). The higher in altitude you go the harder it is to use the ground as a reference point but if you get good enough then you can look at their plane, put yourself in the cockpit, and read roughly how fast he's going.
Another way is by watching his maneuvers. If he dove before the merge then he is obviously building up speed to going into the merge with. This usually means he was a little low on E, or he wants to build up excess speed to go into the merge with. You can usually tell which reason he dove for by how fast he is closing on you. If your opponent pulled a tight, high G turn then he just bled off a bit of his speed. If he pulls looser turns then he is saving his speed. Reading stuff like this will not only help you judge his E state but also let you know what your opponent is planning to do.
The last one that I do is judge his E state compared to mine. If I have someone on my 6, I'm doing about 280mph, and he's slowly closing on me then I know he's got to be around 300-320mph. If he's closing quickly then he's likely somewhere in the 350-400mph range. Alternatively, if I'm pulling away from him slowly at 280mph then he's going to be somewhere in the 240-260mph range.
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When I'm looking to judge an e- state of a given aircraft I'm looking at a couple of factors. One obviously is type of aircraft, some aircraft tend to build up massive E quickly, such as a K4 or Ki-84 or have a very high top speed. Another is what was the aircraft doing before you engaged it, was it climbing, turning, diving, or flying level. Then there's the most obvious one in the game which is closure rate. Throw these factors together along with some experience and you can normally get a good idea of what kind of E state you are up against.
Lets use a P-51 vs an F4u-1a for example. Lets say we are at 15k. I take my F4U and slice back toward a pony that just passed my 3/9 line from the front quarter. Once I'm on the pony's 6 lets say 1.5k out at this point on his slightly low 6. Pony isn't extending and I'm assuming he doesn't realize I'm there otherwise he'd probaly be pulling away from me. So right now we are basically Co-E with me in the offensive position. The pony's buddy in a PT boat or whatever warns him of my presence and he makes the mistake of a hard left flat turn back toward me. At this point seeing this hard turn I know I now have the E advantage as his hard flat turn burned a lot of E. Now as he turns back toward me I can take this E advantage I was given and us it to further better my position by turning back onto his 6 in the verticle (eg. pitchback) as he passes me. So I traded E for better position. If he continues to make this a turn fight I can use this verticle advantage as an E bank. As he would have to burn E to come up to me but I can simply exchange E (alt for speed) to come down to him. If the pony decides not to fight and simply extends, I can convert my alt to speed by diving back down to the pony's level and the chase continues. Eventually if the pony extended long enough it would gain the E-advantage through it's higher top speed, given enough speed and distance from me it could make a wide turn and come back toward me at a close to co-E state.
:salute
BigRat
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It's actually a lot easier to judge E states in here than one thinks. Icons are very useful for judging your opponents relative E state compared to yours.
ack-ack
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Thanks for the feedback guys.
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Thanks for the feedback guys.
You may wish to consider this, click the link and view the AH file, Watch P38L deal with a 109G2 who has superior position and speed, by keeping the 109 on his six and keeping the 109 in a speed advantage, until the 109 is killed.
https://www.mediafire.com/?n5bb44gztk66mm9 (https://www.mediafire.com/?n5bb44gztk66mm9)
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I'd say being effective at reading E states is largely due to experience and how often you fly. It is very difficult to explain over writing just how to make it easier to read E. The icons are the indecators. Often times another good way is to judge how fast they are going when you first enter the merge. How fast did they pull the loop after the merge, can they pull a second loop? Can you pull a second loop?
A lot of times you have to kill another players E by going into a verticle spiral climb. This gets the player to over compensate trying to make the lead shot, they will typically get ropped If you can keep it close enough to make them think they will get a shot. If there is a player with a lot of E, then when you pull a spiral climb you really have to loop harder and then pull up, then loop hard again and pull up, then go into the spiral climb, so they lose E trying to make the shot. This takes a lot of practice and really mostly.
If you notice the way I fly. I like to make my oppenents think they have a shot. Ill cut it extremly close because if they attempt to make the shot, I know it will kill their E faster than mine and I can pull loops easier over them. I'll give them an extremely tough shot to make ( 95% they will miss) and this sets me up with better E and a better position. I've developed that well and it's largely from experience, knowing exactly how people are gonna fly.
You can also use defense maneuvers when they are on your 6 and use their E to their disadvantage. So if you got someone closing behind you, pull that nose down turn, when they follow they will be blacking out then with timing, you do a nice roll right over them and jump their 6. At this point it's pretty easy to be able to tell how much E they have . this is my favorite move in the game because if they kill their E and go into a rolling scissors then you have a chance to win because you are initially going slower. You can really get a lot of great kills pulling this move.
Always in every fight. Especially if you see a low con trying to climb up to you. Always push the nose down first facing them, this will give you a slight boast of extra tiny speed which can give you the extra bit to pull off a loop. If I got a fast plane coming from below to attack with a lot of E, normally I'll turn down to the right or the left which ever direction they are coming from and I'll turn nose down inside first, to get some E real quick, then I'll proceed to pull up into a spiral climb or strong half loop depending on how I judge their E and speed.
These are all some ways you can kind of recognize E states and perform a move to lower their E for your advanatage. Like I said though, it's kind of hard to explain by writing. But next time I see ya we can go in the DA or something or you can ride in my plane.
I'll tell ya this too. The one who can maneuver with loops and instead of going for tough shots goes for the loop around will win the fight. You can destroy their E using loop fighting techniques but I'll have to show you in the game.
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Every time I read the helpful post like these I realize a lot of the time . . . I look but I do not see.
Good thread OP.
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I'd say being effective at reading E states is largely due to experience and how often you fly. It is very difficult to explain over writing just how to make it easier to read E. The icons are the indecators. Often times another good way is to judge how fast they are going when you first enter the merge. How fast did they pull the loop after the merge, can they pull a second loop? Can you pull a second loop?
A lot of times you have to kill another players E by going into a verticle spiral climb. This gets the player to over compensate trying to make the lead shot, they will typically get ropped If you can keep it close enough to make them think they will get a shot. If there is a player with a lot of E, then you really have to loop harder and then pull up, then loop hard again and pull up, then go into the spiral climb, so they lose E trying to make the shot. This takes a lot of practice. Edit: pull up into hard split S. Note: these are not full loops. But you can really kill a planes E by getting them to follow you in hard split S first. I really have to show you
If you notice the way I fly. I like to make my oppenents think they have a shot. Ill cut it extremly close because if they attempt to make the shot, I know it will kill their E faster than mine and I can pull loops easier over them. I'll give them an extremely tough shot to make ( 95% they will miss) and this sets me up with better E and a better position. I've developed that well and it's largely from experience, knowing exactly how people are gonna fly.
You can also use defense maneuvers when they are on your 6 and use their E to their disadvantage. So if you got someone closing behind you, pull that nose down turn, when they follow they will be blacking out then with timing, you do a nice roll right over them and jump their 6. At this point it's pretty easy to be able to tell how much E they have . this is my favorite move in the game because if they kill their E and go into a rolling scissors then you have a chance to win because you are initially going slower. You can really get a lot of great kills pulling this move.
Always in every fight. Especially if you see a low con trying to climb up to you. Always push the nose down first facing them, this will give you a slight boast of extra tiny speed which can give you the extra bit to pull off a loop. If I got a fast plane coming from below to attack with a lot of E, normally I'll turn down to the right or the left which ever direction they are coming from and I'll turn nose down inside first, to get some E real quick, then I'll proceed to pull up into a spiral climb or strong half loop depending on how I judge their E and speed.
These are all some ways you can kind of recognize E states and perform a move to lower their E for your advanatage. Like I said though, it's kind of hard to explain by writing. But next time I see ya we can go in the DA or something or you can ride in my plane.
I'll tell ya this too. The one who can maneuver with loops and instead of going for tough shots goes for the loop around will win the fight. You can destroy their E using loop fighting techniques but I'll have to show you in the game.
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Oops meant to edit that other post but accidently made a quote haha
Made changes to the second paragraph.
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I'd say being effective at reading E states is largely due to experience and how often you fly. It is very difficult to explain over writing just how to make it easier to read E. The icons are the indecators. Often times another good way is to judge how fast they are going when you first enter the merge. How fast did they pull the loop after the merge, can they pull a second loop? Can you pull a second loop?
A lot of times you have to kill another players E by going into a verticle spiral climb. This gets the player to over compensate trying to make the lead shot, they will typically get ropped If you can keep it close enough to make them think they will get a shot. If there is a player with a lot of E, then when you pull a spiral climb you really have to loop harder and then pull up, then loop hard again and pull up, then go into the spiral climb, so they lose E trying to make the shot. This takes a lot of practice and really mostly.
If you notice the way I fly. I like to make my oppenents think they have a shot. Ill cut it extremly close because if they attempt to make the shot, I know it will kill their E faster than mine and I can pull loops easier over them. I'll give them an extremely tough shot to make ( 95% they will miss) and this sets me up with better E and a better position. I've developed that well and it's largely from experience, knowing exactly how people are gonna fly.
You can also use defense maneuvers when they are on your 6 and use their E to their disadvantage. So if you got someone closing behind you, pull that nose down turn, when they follow they will be blacking out then with timing, you do a nice roll right over them and jump their 6. At this point it's pretty easy to be able to tell how much E they have . this is my favorite move in the game because if they kill their E and go into a rolling scissors then you have a chance to win because you are initially going slower. You can really get a lot of great kills pulling this move.
Always in every fight. Especially if you see a low con trying to climb up to you. Always push the nose down first facing them, this will give you a slight boast of extra tiny speed which can give you the extra bit to pull off a loop. If I got a fast plane coming from below to attack with a lot of E, normally I'll turn down to the right or the left which ever direction they are coming from and I'll turn nose down inside first, to get some E real quick, then I'll proceed to pull up into a spiral climb or strong half loop depending on how I judge their E and speed.
These are all some ways you can kind of recognize E states and perform a move to lower their E for your advanatage. Like I said though, it's kind of hard to explain by writing. But next time I see ya we can go in the DA or something or you can ride in my plane.
I'll tell ya this too. The one who can maneuver with loops and instead of going for tough shots goes for the loop around will win the fight. You can destroy their E using loop fighting techniques but I'll have to show you in the game.
Great write up! That move I will have to try! :O
Once again thanks for the feedback and teh link!
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If I see you on later I'll show ya
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what i ask my self is "if i was him in that plane and i just made that turn would i still have the E to follow me up?" if so make a move if not climb baby climb
:airplane:
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It takes a lot of practice and experience (from a lot of practice) to judge the opponent's energy state. Then, just when you think you're starting to get the hang of it, you'll run across the guy who is a master at disguising his energy level and using it to deceive and kill you. :O. Never give up learning and expanding your experience base. :salute
QFT. Depending on the plane and pilot, it can be "hidden". But, even after some time you can spot it and it's not hidden so much (part of it is just knowing they're loaded up and now YOU have to watch them closely for if/when they pull in for a shot.)