Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Yankee67 on September 23, 2014, 12:01:48 PM
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When an opponent displays a particularly egregious demonstration of warping, what can one do about it? Vent? I had an opponent today that had nice, smooth turns as he dove down on me from altitude, but when I BRD'd him, turned the table, and got several guns solutions, he jumped all over the sky as I started firing. Then went back to nice smooth turns. Also there was a fellow countryman in the film frames in question, and he wasn't warping.
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About a month ago, I and several others witnessed the same deal. Warping is something you see every now and then but this sure liked control warping if there is such a thing.
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Acceptance is the answer.
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When an opponent displays a particularly egregious demonstration of warping, what can one do about it? Vent? I had an opponent today that had nice, smooth turns as he dove down on me from altitude, but when I BRD'd him, turned the table, and got several guns solutions, he jumped all over the sky as I started firing. Then went back to nice smooth turns. Also there was a fellow countryman in the film frames in question, and he wasn't warping.
If you think there's a problem don't post it here, just send film to support@hitechcreations.com .
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There's many variables that can cause the other plane warp only when he's near you. You know, many PC players would like to stop everything in the background for the smoothest possible gameplay. But there's people who'd like to do things on their second monitor while flying. And there's people who have all kind of crap running in the background without them knowing about it. And there's people who pass their time playing AH while downloading a movie by torrent. And there's people who share their connection with a bunch of teenagers having all of those mentioned running. And there's people who like to crank every setting on the max. Combine any of those with a guy who believes that "new" is a synonym for "ultimate gaming rig" even if it was a $300 laptop.
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The closer you get to someone, more/faster data updates are needed between the two of you. When you add to that all the bullets that need to be tracked, and someone teetering on the edge of packet overload on a maxed out CPU and network connection, and you tend to see what is described in the OP.
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I will usually let them know about it... Most of the time, the responses are predictable
- Not me, looked fine on my end, must be you
- Tough, that's the best you're going to get
- Sorry, I will look into it
- :furious
In the end, flatiron has the best path...
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The closer you get to someone, more/faster data updates are needed between the two of you. When you add to that all the bullets that need to be tracked, and someone teetering on the edge of packet overload on a maxed out CPU and network connection, and you tend to see what is described in the OP.
Now will that affect you, him, or both? IE- I see a lot of people who seem to repeatedly run into warpage when they start shooting. I wonder if it's possible it's their end? Is it their machine that's at the edge and causing the warpage, or if the other guy's at the edge, does it affect your gunnery?
Wiley.
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When an opponent displays a particularly egregious demonstration of warping, what can one do about it?
I fly away. And, I assume the warping is not purposeful. I'm lousy enough at air combat as it is. Don't want to track a zig-zagging gnat.
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The closer you get to someone, more/faster data updates are needed between the two of you. When you add to that all the bullets that need to be tracked, and someone teetering on the edge of packet overload on a maxed out CPU and network connection, and you tend to see what is described in the OP.
Thanks, Dot! That's what really causes the warping when they guy is near. The amount of warping can be explained by something I brought up in my post but the very reason why it happens near you is exactly what you said.
That's also why it's so easy to convince oneself that one's computer can carry the load. Flying at 10k or more and looking up to the blue sky will almost always give a solid 60 fps and smooth flyability, turning into whack-a-mole every time there's another object near.
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I fly away. And, I assume the warping is not purposeful. I'm lousy enough at air combat as it is. Don't want to track a zig-zagging gnat.
Hap! We lock horns every now and then. :salute, sir.
It's funny you call it a gnat. That happens to be very close to this opponent's game ID. It's a truly a sight to see on film.
Thank you all for the advice, btw.
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Now will that affect you, him, or both? IE- I see a lot of people who seem to repeatedly run into warpage when they start shooting. I wonder if it's possible it's their end? Is it their machine that's at the edge and causing the warpage, or if the other guy's at the edge, does it affect your gunnery?
Wiley.
Wiley, I don't believe it was on my end. There were times when I was firing and he was all over the place, and times when I was firing and scoring hits on his non-warping crate's level flight path (I assume I wounded him and he put it in autopilot as he blacked out).
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How much is computer and how much is Internet?
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In Fighter Ace there was a whole squad banned for intentional warping. I'm not convinced that these warps only when I fire are "just the internet" or my connection, or even the warping player's connection. I believe it's intentional, all you have to do is unplug the network cable for a second and instant warp.
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Wiley, I don't believe it was on my end. There were times when I was firing and he was all over the place, and times when I was firing and scoring hits on his non-warping crate's level flight path (I assume I wounded him and he put it in autopilot as he blacked out).
Right, but warping occurs mostly when you're maneuvering. Flying straight and level, warping would be far less likely to occur, no matter the (assumed unintentional) cause.
Wiley.
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In Fighter Ace there was a whole squad banned for intentional warping. I'm not convinced that these warps only when I fire are "just the internet" or my connection, or even the warping player's connection. I believe it's intentional, all you have to do is unplug the network cable for a second and instant warp.
Well please don't PM the guy accusing him of cheating. It has happened to me and it is an insult.
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all you have to do is unplug the network cable for a second and instant warp.
Skuzzy said that don't work like you think it does...
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Hap! We lock horns every now and then. :salute, sir.
It's funny you call it a gnat. That happens to be very close to this opponent's game ID. It's a truly a sight to see on film.
Thank you all for the advice, btw.
I think I know who it is, they're a bish, right?
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In Fighter Ace there was a whole squad banned for intentional warping. I'm not convinced that these warps only when I fire are "just the internet" or my connection, or even the warping player's connection. I believe it's intentional, all you have to do is unplug the network cable for a second and instant warp.
Lol have you tried it in AH. Go ahead try it then report back.
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Now will that affect you, him, or both? IE- I see a lot of people who seem to repeatedly run into warpage when they start shooting. I wonder if it's possible it's their end? Is it their machine that's at the edge and causing the warpage, or if the other guy's at the edge, does it affect your gunnery?
As ImADot said, getting close and adding the calculation for all of the shooting a computer that is already on the edge of its performance can't handle the extra load. The actual warper can be either one of the two. It's easy to determine which one it is by either asking whether the other guy is warping also in the monitors of your fellow countrymen nearby, or by looking if everyone else is warping. If everyone says you're warping or you see everybody warping, it's at your end. If you can fly tight formation maneuvers with your squadmates without warping, it's the other guy. The reasons may vary, it may be connection related or computer related as I stated earlier in this thread.
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Acceptance is the answer.
Banning routine offenders would fix the issue.
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Banning routine offenders would fix the issue.
Sure.
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Sure.
Yep. It's what most other games do... and it works.
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So I get banned because my ISP sucks and my internet is terrible? :(
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So I get banned because my ISP sucks and my internet is terrible? :(
Good point.
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So I get banned because my ISP sucks and my internet is terrible? :(
If it is affecting the gameplay mechanics for other players? Absolutely. You would presumably receive a warning or notice that your connection was subpar, so you wouldn't be banned unless you persisted in playing with your known-to-be subpar connection.
If someone was purposefully messing with their connection to make them warp and affect their ability to be hit, the overwhelming majority here would have no issue with banning them. Why then should someone with an identically-same problem receive a pass because it's due to their ISP? Rules are enforced got the purpose of fair gameplay, not to make people happy.
If you cannot afford or otherwise obtain a good connection, you have no business forcing your connection problems on others. Only a selfish person would argue otherwise.
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If it is affecting the gameplay mechanics for other players? Absolutely. You would presumably receive a warning or notice that your connection was subpar, so you wouldn't be banned unless you persisted in playing with your known-to-be subpar connection.
If someone was purposefully messing with their connection to make them warp and affect their ability to be hit, the overwhelming majority here would have no issue with banning them. Why then should someone with an identically-same problem receive a pass because it's due to their ISP? Rules are enforced got the purpose of fair gameplay, not to make people happy.
If you cannot afford or otherwise obtain a good connection, you have no business forcing your connection problems on others. Only a selfish person would argue otherwise.
Said the guy who doesn't have the problem.
Wiley.
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If it is affecting the gameplay mechanics for other players? Absolutely. You would presumably receive a warning or notice that your connection was subpar, so you wouldn't be banned unless you persisted in playing with your known-to-be subpar connection.
If someone was purposefully messing with their connection to make them warp and affect their ability to be hit, the overwhelming majority here would have no issue with banning them. Why then should someone with an identically-same problem receive a pass because it's due to their ISP? Rules are enforced got the purpose of fair gameplay, not to make people happy.
If you cannot afford or otherwise obtain a good connection, you have no business forcing your connection problems on others. Only a selfish person would argue otherwise.
Truly a flawless argument. I see in no way how this is a bad idea.
:rofl
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Said the guy who doesn't have the problem.
Wiley.
I used to have a lag problem with my cable. I switched to dial-up for two years and it actually resulted in clean connection.
You were saying?
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I used to have a lag problem with my cable. I switched to dial-up for two years and it actually resulted in clean connection.
You were saying?
Good thing you had options. Some don't.
Wiley.
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For once(and only once), I agree with Skyyr. I have played other games, MOH, COD and Battlefield games...early and later, and they don't even let you connect if you have a ping over a certain level. I sympathize with those who may not be able to get better connections, but have to agree that your poor connection shouldn't be allowed to blow the game for others.
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For once(and only once), I agree with Skyyr. I have played other games, MOH, COD and Battlefield games...early and later, and they don't even let you connect if you have a ping over a certain level. I sympathize with those who may not be able to get better connections, but have to agree that your poor connection shouldn't be allowed to blow the game for others.
Neither of you noticed that people with poor connections already can't play Aces High?
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Dear Mr. Hitech.
Please listen to skyyr and copprhed and act in concert to their wish. But, do post in a prominent location your projected date of the final closing of your doors. It may only be three of us sitting in towers on that day. I want to read ch200 and remember today.
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This is strange for the least : i had same problem : someone flies without any warp, then when 1 bullet hit his plane, he does a nice warp... Then no warp untill i manage to shoot at him again and at first bullet hit -again- he suddenly warps again...
I hope thats not the smell of some lamers...
When an opponent displays a particularly egregious demonstration of warping, what can one do about it? Vent? I had an opponent today that had nice, smooth turns as he dove down on me from altitude, but when I BRD'd him, turned the table, and got several guns solutions, he jumped all over the sky as I started firing. Then went back to nice smooth turns. Also there was a fellow countryman in the film frames in question, and he wasn't warping.
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For once(and only once), I agree with Skyyr. I have played other games, MOH, COD and Battlefield games...early and later, and they don't even let you connect if you have a ping over a certain level. I sympathize with those who may not be able to get better connections, but have to agree that your poor connection shouldn't be allowed to blow the game for others.
The thing about those games is they have several dozen (if not hundreds) of servers for you to connect to. Aces High doesn't. So if you're ping is too high for you to connect to a server on battlefield then you can just choose a different one. If your ping is too high for Aces High server then your just s**t out of luck, have fun playing is offline mode by yourself.
Lag and warping really suck. Every gamer will agree to that but there is no game (at least none that I have played) that is 100% lag free.
Since Aces High doesn't have several dozen servers for you to choose from, kicking/banning people with subpar internet connection is just a suicidal decision for HTC to choose (especially with how small the player base is nowdays)
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For once(and only once), I agree with Skyyr. I have played other games, MOH, COD and Battlefield games...early and later, and they don't even let you connect if you have a ping over a certain level. I sympathize with those who may not be able to get better connections, but have to agree that your poor connection shouldn't be allowed to blow the game for others.
Actually, ping is no issue here. Ping times below 300 ms are "golden" as Skuzzy has sometimes said. Since ping is related to distance, the 300 ms covers most of the globe.
The biggest problem seems to be the American nature. For what I've read there's almost always some kind of rough weather somewhere in the USA, causing issues in Internet connections. Hurricanes, thunderstorms, floods, whatnot... And people complain here about it as if it were HTC's fault.
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have to agree that your poor connection shouldn't be allowed to blow the game for others.
If having one guy warp is "blowing the game" for someone, then he/she has more serious problems.
Having a target warp out of your gunsight is irritating. It is not a threat to the health of you or AH.
- oldman (...now...if EVERYONE was warping, that might be a different story)
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If having one guy warp is "blowing the game" for someone, then he/she has more serious problems.
Having a target warp out of your gunsight is irritating. It is not a threat to the health of you or AH.
- oldman (...now...if EVERYONE was warping, that might be a different story)
Not only this but the guy with bad connection suffers more than the ones who complain about it.
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Not only this but the guy with bad connection suffers more than the ones who complain about it.
So true! Bad internet cuts both ways. I may warp to some people from time to time but they are also warping on my screen as well. And, I can not tell you the number of times I have taken damage from tracers that missed me by mile.
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If it is affecting the gameplay mechanics for other players? Absolutely. You would presumably receive a warning or notice that your connection was subpar, so you wouldn't be banned unless you persisted in playing with your known-to-be subpar connection.
If someone was purposefully messing with their connection to make them warp and affect their ability to be hit, the overwhelming majority here would have no issue with banning them. Why then should someone with an identically-same problem receive a pass because it's due to their ISP? Rules are enforced got the purpose of fair gameplay, not to make people happy.
If you cannot afford or otherwise obtain a good connection, you have no business forcing your connection problems on others. Only a selfish person would argue otherwise.
Flying about running from fights and hoing before diving into and circling ackalso affects other people's enjoyment of the game but no one is advocating we ban these guys, and they do have a choice as opposed to the guy who has no option but bad Internet signal
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So true! Bad internet cuts both ways. I may warp to some people from time to time but they are also warping on my screen as well. And, I can not tell you the number of times I have taken damage from tracers that missed me by mile.
Even with good connection enemy gunnery is only an approximation. I'd say it's more rare for me to see tracers that actually hit me unless I'm coming in on a bomber set straight in. For myself, against a fighter I more feel by the angle of his plane that the shot's about to happen, the tracers are just ambiance.
Wiley.
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Wiley collides on purpose don't listen to him. And he steals my kills.
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... And, I can not tell you the number of times I have taken damage from tracers that missed me by mile.
That's not warping, it's just travel time, as explained in the many collision model threads. The tracers indicate your aircraft's position on the shooters PC.
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That's not warping, it's just travel time, as explained in the many collision model threads. The tracers indicate your aircraft's position on the shooters PC.
I know that and collisions also plagued me just as much and as badly as tracers missing me by several feet. I have had numerous occasions where I would get a collision message and lose a wing to someone who flew past me 200 yards away. It's just another one of those curses those of us with bad internet connection have to live with. On their screen they most likely did have lead to get the shot or they did in fact fly through my plane, but that's the point I was agreeing Flyman on. Those of us playing on bad internet connection suffer just as badly or (more often than not) even worse than those seeing us warp every now and then.
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If you cannot afford or otherwise obtain a good connection, you have no business forcing your connection problems on others. Only a selfish person would argue otherwise.
You crack me up.
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When you consider that every encounter is your connection travel time plus the other player's connection travel time, it becomes obvious that any advantage or disadvantage is shared by both players. The possible exception being the mutual pilot death collision kill assignment.
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I have only seen what looked like controlled warping twice, both times it was the same person during the same sortie. I will call it controlled warping only because I have never seen warping like this before of since. Flickering might be a better choice of words albeit there was some displacement.
The first time I was attacked by the person then reversed on the red and the warping began. I broke off. Then the red turned on another green and the warping stopped until another green got on the persons 6 and the warp-flicker began again.
I have not seen it since or anything like that. By the time I got my keyboard up and started filming the red went down.
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Saw it happening last night. I have a hard time believing it's something benign, my fault, my connection, the intardnet, or someone farting causing the problem. When a single player repeatedly levels off (as though baiting you in) then vanishes at about 600, only to reappear behind you... there's something wrong, and "aw shucks" is not an acceptable answer (which is exactly what you'll get without a film).
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Accept it as part of the game and/or send it in if its suspicious. Anything else is like worrying about a giant meteor strike. I can't control it on my end and assume 99.99% of players can't or don't bother attempting to. Any tiny amount of players who's life is so pathetic they would induce lag, shade for info, or try and hack anything can have some extra kills on me, it may be all they have.
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Saw it happening last night. I have a hard time believing it's something benign, my fault, my connection, the intardnet, or someone farting causing the problem. When a single player repeatedly levels off (as though baiting you in) then vanishes at about 600, only to reappear behind you... there's something wrong, and "aw shucks" is not an acceptable answer (which is exactly what you'll get without a film).
With it happening repeatedly, why on earth didn't you roll film?
Wiley.
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Flying about running from fights and hoing before diving into and circling ackalso affects other people's enjoyment of the game but no one is advocating we ban these guys, and they do have a choice as opposed to the guy who has no option but bad Internet signal
You fail at logic and reasoning. The original example of a player warping is bypassing and manipulation of an established gameplay mechanic, while the other - your example - is simply preference. If you cannot differentiate between a player making a game unplayable in one aspect or another due to something that is not valid gameplay versus someone playing a way you dislike, we have bigger problems than the simple discussion of warping.
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If it is affecting the gameplay mechanics for other players? Absolutely. You would presumably receive a warning or notice that your connection was subpar, so you wouldn't be banned unless you persisted in playing with your known-to-be subpar connection.
If someone was purposefully messing with their connection to make them warp and affect their ability to be hit, the overwhelming majority here would have no issue with banning them. Why then should someone with an identically-same problem receive a pass because it's due to their ISP? Rules are enforced got the purpose of fair gameplay, not to make people happy.
If you cannot afford or otherwise obtain a good connection, you have no business forcing your connection problems on others. Only a selfish person would argue otherwise.
Can you name one MMO that bans players for having a poor internet connection?
ack-ack
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Can you name one MMO that bans players for having a poor internet connection?
ack-ack
Of course I can, but the way you worded your argument is already disingenuous (and I know you're well aware of that). No company bans for a "poor connection" - they ban when that poor connection disrupts the gameplay of others, i.e. game-disrupting lag. You also know as well as I do that most MMO's are not twitch/first-per-shooter based, they are RPG-mechanic based. RPG-based games do not typically ban players, because lag usually only matters up to the delay of the first move. Additionally, the lagging player is almost always at a disadvantage in an RPG game due to the offense/defense style of gameplay, unlike a first-person shooter where position of a single player matters to all involved parties.
That said, virtually all major twitch/FPS games ban based on lag.
Battlefield 1/2/3
COD 1/2/3/4
Black Ops 1, 2
Xbox Live (for connections with high packet loss)
And that's just what I can think of within 10 seconds.
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Of course I can, but the way you worded your argument is already disingenuous (and I know you're well aware of that). You know as well as I do that most MMO's are not twitch/first-per-shooter based, they are RPG-mechanic based. RPG-based games do not typically ban players, because lag usually only matters up to the delay of the first move. Additionally, the lagging player is almost always at a disadvantage in an RPG game due to the offense/defense style of gameplay, unlike a first-person shooter where position of a single player matters to all involved parties.
That said, virtually all major twitch/FPS games ban based on lag.
Battlefield 3
COD 1/2/3/4
Black Ops 1, 2
Xbox Live (for connections with high packet loss)
And that's just what I can think of within 10 seconds.
Those games are different than AH in that there are multiple servers to select from, you can pick the server that best matches your ping and you're also not banned. Depending how the server is configured, you may be prohibited from getting into a server with a high ping rate or you may be kicked from the server if your ping rate goes down the crapper but you won't be banned. If your ping rate improves and is below the server's threshold, then you can connect again. At least that's how it is for the PC versions of those games you listed.
I agree that if someone has a 1000ms ping rate and trying to connect to AH, they shouldn't be allowed to but to ban them is a little harsh, especially if its just a temporary connection issue. It is also not good for business to ban a customer for that reason.
ack-ack
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You're also not banned.
You're not banned by default, but if you're manually reviewed and found to have bad lag, especially if you're a repeat offender, you can and most usually are banned, ESPECIALLY on clan and tournament servers.
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Imadaot had it correct on the first page. Think of all those packets. They have to get to the server and back. I f you get someone warping just fly away. and becomes a issue just fly away.
I remember sending a film in once, the plane had no wings, on fire and just kept on flying around.
Skuzzy to told me it was a packet isuue.
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I think some need to find competitive activities that aren't over their Xbox or computer.
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A long time ago in aces high, on a much older system i had a virus program "never intended i assure you, i was ingame when the sob kicked off and would alt/tab out cause the game would hit very low fps" anyhow, i would skyrocket into the air at dang near warp speed to whatever alt i wanted, after a few mins it was all normal fps would return and all was smooth. Frightening really. i know most people would say it was the game catching up while i was alt tabbed out, and i would assume that, if i didnt have full control upto 20k+ in under 6 seconds. And no that system was not bad enough to be alt tabbed out that long,just a few off buttons" :rock
Enjoyable? god no...could it be used to a advantage? Im sure.
Still it was always a big wtf moment...made the me162 laughable.
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You fail at logic and reasoning. The original example of a player warping is bypassing and manipulation of an established gameplay mechanic, while the other - your example - is simply preference. If you cannot differentiate between a player making a game unplayable in one aspect or another due to something that is not valid gameplay versus someone playing a way you dislike, we have bigger problems than the simple discussion of warping.
Neither makes the game unplayable, both affect the enjoyment of gameplay by others