Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Slade on October 02, 2014, 09:35:04 AM
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I have had some really incredible encounters with Mossies below 10k. The main method used by the Mossy to beat me was...turning!? Some guys in Mossies are great at this.
to them.
I have been out turned in 109gs, Yaks, 51s etc. This is crazy amazing as a Mossies normal ability to turn is 771.
So my question (the context of this thread) is: What planes turn ability dramatically change to for the better with full flaps?
Please outside of Spits and Zeros kind of thing. I am trying to make clearer which planes are hidden turn monsters at lower speeds that one would not normally suspect.
Thanks for your comments.
Slade :salute
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Check this out...
http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php?topic=342945.0
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Flaps4u corsair. A light jug can be a nasty surprise when they stick their flaps out. All 109s have good flaps. Ki84 has crazy flaps once you get sloe enough to deploy them. F6F and P38s have good flaps. P39 is a good flap fighter.
Ummmmm
A20 has good flaps
110 has good flaps
Yak3s and LAs probably have good flaps.
LVTs have good flaps.
Ki43 has crazy good flaps.
I think that's it.
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Dont forget the differences in speed when the full flaps are out. Some aircraft have a larger turn radius but can easily keep up with the tigher turning planes due to the speeds in question.
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ki61
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Thanks for re-posting Mosq's Sustained Turn list. :)
That explains a lot!
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I have had some really incredible encounters with Mossies below 10k. The main method used by the Mossy to beat me was...turning!? Some guys in Mossies are great at this. to them.
I have been out turned in 109gs, Yaks, 51s etc. This is crazy amazing as a Mossies normal ability to turn is 771.
So my question (the context of this thread) is: What planes turn ability dramatically change to for the better with full flaps?
Please outside of Spits and Zeros kind of thing. I am trying to make clearer which planes are hidden turn monsters at lower speeds that one would not normally suspect.
Thanks for your comments.
Slade :salute
The mosquito does not turn well with full flaps. It turns incredibly poor with full flaps! It is better to turn with 3 notches than with 5 notches.
Two reasons:
1. Mossie flaps generate a lot of drag. With 1-2 notches you can overcome the drag if you have WEP on and thus benefit from the extra lift and still maintain a turn. With full flaps (5 notches) you generate so much drag that you can barely sustain a level flight. The only reason to use full flaps is when landing, or if trying to delay a stall as much as possible when "hovering"
2. to extend full flaps, your speed needs to be somewhere around 130 mph (dont remember the exact speed) or lower. This is far FAR below your minimal drag speed i.e. you are way on the back-side of the power curve, which for the mossie is very very steep (I generated a plot of this once vs. other planes). As a rule of thumb, in Mossie VI you never want to let speed below 150 mph except if you are trying to hover. The plane becomes a total pig - it flies, but cannot turn, only wallow, and you will start to feel the strong engine torque to the left.
The 1st notch can be used below 200 mph (or 195?). 160 mph is my normal minimal speed to maintain in a turning fight. This leaves you with a narrow band of 160-200 mph and up to 2 notches of flaps to play with. If you can keep the mossie within these limits and still have WEP, you can maintain a decent turn rate that is competitive with most fighters, except the best turning ones. Without WEP you will simply fall out of the skies in any kind of maneuvering contest. Dips to lower speeds and more flaps must be done only briefly and in a calculated fashion.
Mossie VI and XVI are very maneuverable and fun planes. Quite different from the other birds of AH and way cooler. If you want to learn more you are welcome to look at my Mosquito guide in my signature below.
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Real men fly the one-ten... :aok ;)
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Real men fly the one-ten... :aok ;)
Some guys like to ride a wooden thoroughbred. Others like to ride a metallic mule. ;)
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Real men fly the one-ten... :aok ;)
C :aok
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Slower speed, smaller turn radius.
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ki61
+1
Although it usually never takes full flaps to kill
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ki61
The Ki-61 has just about the worst flaps in the game.....
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not only that...but I doubt he beat you by straight up out "turning" you
more along the lines he out maneuvered you......huge difference.
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Plane / radius / DPS
No flaps
Ki-61 / 615.0 / 21.2
Bf 109K-4 / 706.0 / 19.6
Full flaps
Ki-61 / 527.9 / 18.3
Bf 109K-4 / 534.9 / 19.6
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From the flight tests I have read about nearly every one of the 'monsters' in this game should require full aileron deflection with anything more than 30 degrees of flaps and full power applied.
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From the flight tests I have read about nearly every one of the 'monsters' in this game should require full aileron deflection with anything more than 30 degrees of flaps and full power applied.
Yeah, removing the torque nerf would change how a LOT of aircraft are flown in-game.
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Yeah, removing the torque nerf would change how a LOT of aircraft are flown in-game.
Any idea just how much it would change? I know, for instance, the P40's (which models, I dont remember) were known to have horrid torque. There are multiple account of pilots complaining of their legs being extremely exhausted from fighting the rudder.
There was a crash by a P51 at an airshow in Minnesota not all that many years ago where the pilot severely misjudged the torque and it rolled him right over. Too bad for the pilot and plane as it happened on the landing approach.
I know when floating around in a Cessna 150 I'm not too concerned, but I'd have to think planes like the Tempest, Typhoon, 109K-4, and other torque monsters would be even more of a handful to operate then they are. As it is, the Typhoon is the only real plane in AH I truly "feel" the torque working against me. Some of that may be in the wing design, too.
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Any idea just how much it would change?
Quite a bit. As I'd said, removing the torque nerf would change how a large number of aircraft are flown.
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Quite a bit. As I'd said, removing the torque nerf would change how a large number of aircraft are flown.
What is this "torque nerf" you mention? I don't remember HTC stating that they have intentionally modified the physics modeling in any way.
(I have my own questions regarding how torque and controls play out in AH, but that is besides the point).
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Torque and P-effects are quite a bit less in AH than in real life, especially on take off. In real life you can't just firewall the throttle and hold it on the rudder. You have to apply power gradually and gently or you'll have an accident.
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Torque and P-effects are quite a bit less in AH than in real life, especially on take off. In real life you can't just firewall the throttle and hold it on the rudder. You have to apply power gradually and gently or you'll have an accident.
This. Especially notable in the Corsairs IRL, which does NOT happen in game. The Corsair was notorious for snapping inverted if engine power was applied too quickly at low speeds, and that doesn't happen here.
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Torque and P-effects are quite a bit less in AH than in real life, especially on take off. In real life you can't just firewall the throttle and hold it on the rudder. You have to apply power gradually and gently or you'll have an accident.
This. Especially notable in the Corsairs IRL, which does NOT happen in game. The Corsair was notorious for snapping inverted if engine power was applied too quickly at low speeds, and that doesn't happen here.
Yes, I am aware of these accounts, but I got the impression that by "nerf" Saxman suggests that HTC intentionally modeled weaker torque effects.
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Yes, I am aware of these accounts, but I got the impression that by "nerf" Saxman suggests that HTC intentionally modeled weaker torque effects.
:airplane: I echo your comment that AH might have "neutered" the effects of torque and "P" factor because of the number of players in here who have not flown "real" aircraft, so they would not be as aware of those 2 effects as I would. When I first came into the game, I of course did a lot "compensation" for those effects and as it turned out, was a mistake on my part. Where I see those effects effect performance of flight is the fighters taking off from carriers! Unless they have "auto takeoff" enabled, there is a lot of guys who would never get one off the deck, except over the side as he would try to takeoff. I think we all have to remember that the vast number of players in the game who do not understand those effects and how best to compensate for them and for that reason, I think Hi Tech programed them correctly!
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I have had some really incredible encounters with Mossies below 10k. The main method used by the Mossy to beat me was...turning!? Some guys in Mossies are great at this. to them.
I have been out turned in 109gs, Yaks, 51s etc. This is crazy amazing as a Mossies normal ability to turn is 771.
So my question (the context of this thread) is: What planes turn ability dramatically change to for the better with full flaps?
Please outside of Spits and Zeros kind of thing. I am trying to make clearer which planes are hidden turn monsters at lower speeds that one would not normally suspect.
Thanks for your comments.
Slade :salute
:airplane: The best "Mossie" pilot in this game is "Ratface", who used to fly under the name Oddcaf! It is amazing to watch him use the Mossie to kill every model in this game with ease! He does have a secret way of flying the Mossie and it is the way it sets it up for combat. I won't go into that, but just let me say that it is not a standard Mossie when he enters combat with it! He makes "2" major adjustments in the aircraft, after takeoff, in preparation for combat!
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He makes "2" major adjustments in the aircraft, after takeoff, in preparation for combat!
ME! ME! I KNOW! :banana:
Raise the gears and ditch the bombs!
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ME! ME! I KNOW! :banana:
Raise the gears
That's gamey as hell! :old:
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That's gamey as hell! :old:
That's why real men fly Stukas :aok
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:airplane: I echo your comment that AH might have "neutered" the effects of torque and "P" factor because of the number of players in here who have not flown "real" aircraft, so they would not be as aware of those 2 effects as I would. When I first came into the game, I of course did a lot "compensation" for those effects and as it turned out, was a mistake on my part. Where I see those effects effect performance of flight is the fighters taking off from carriers! Unless they have "auto takeoff" enabled, there is a lot of guys who would never get one off the deck, except over the side as he would try to takeoff. I think we all have to remember that the vast number of players in the game who do not understand those effects and how best to compensate for them and for that reason, I think Hi Tech programed them correctly!
Meh, in that case break the arenas up into casual and extreme and let us chose which to fly.
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What is this "torque nerf" you mention? I don't remember HTC stating that they have intentionally modified the physics modeling in any way.
(I have my own questions regarding how torque and controls play out in AH, but that is besides the point).
A squadmates recent experience should serve as a warning: Be very, very careful asking these questions (if you ever do).
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Not enough torque, not enough spins, too much rudder effectiveness........is what it takes to keep subscriptions up as the customer base slowly morphs from enthusiasts to gamers.
It's a fine line that HTC must walk and I commend them for what they have done so far.