Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JunkyII on November 06, 2014, 09:54:29 AM
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Background on me. I'm 25 year old Sergeant with a bad knee who is about to make Staff Sergeant. I'm coming up on my second annual rating where I'm receiving the same rating, 1 - 1 rated 1 out of my peers. My knee injury has slowed up my promotion about a year because I physically couldn't lead Soldiers(depression) and now they slot me for recruiter school this May when I was suppose to be getting out late next year.
The advice I'm asking for is, Get out start a new career that doesn't cripple me or stay in at least 3 years as a recruiter and maybe knock out some college.
:salute
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If you don't love what you are doing, do something you do.
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First question. Do you have any intention of going career?
Next question, What are you going to do for a second career should you decide to punch out? Do you have solid job offers at this time? What is the availability of said job in your area of choice to live? What options do you have for advancement in the second career?
First one is obvious. If you are even thinking about going career and getting the pension then you need to investigate what it would take to fully rehab the knee. Not just make it function for now, but fully heal it so it won't be a problem in a couple years. Don't be afraid to look outside the service medical area for opinions on the knee. It's your life, invest some money in getting all the options covered for fixing it, not just band aiding it.
Second set of questions. If you do not at this tine have serious job offers that will give you a chance of advancement and increase in income, you aren't giving yourself much of a chance to succeed. The job market is not real good if you hadn't noticed. Also if you punch out what are you going to do about your knee. If it won't heal on it's own you are still going to have to address that issue even as a civilian. It may also impact your hiring options.
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1. Since the wars are ending the Army is changing...in my eyes, for the worse. Now we are having a new Sergeant Major of the Army coming in who is Infantry so some things may change for the better. I did join with the intent on going career but it's a lot different Army then the one I joined.
2. I don't have any current job offers but my ETS is still a year off so I have some time. My knee is at a point where I'm not able to do what I used to be able to do, the days of me running 5 miles in 30 minutes are gone but I still can operate at a decent level. They started talking about a possible medical board because it does keep me from doing the Infantry job set...but I honestly don't want to change jobs and do something else in the Army.
My knee is at a point where if I got out, they would be paying me a lot of money for it (on job injury) but that's because it will always be painful, not that it will keep me from doing a desk job.
The career I've actually been looking into, thank GMAN for a lot of info, is Air Traffic Control.....I don't think my knee keeps me from doing that.
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Not a veteran in your guys terms but I would take the cush job and study...not sure what you need for air traffic control... that way you can get paid whilst you study...and if it is anything like NZ forces....which we are probably more based of your forces...they will pay for your education....
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Not a veteran in your guys terms but I would take the cush job and study...not sure what you need for air traffic control... that way you can get paid whilst you study...and if it is anything like NZ forces....which we are probably more based of your forces...they will pay for your education....
Not a vet here either.. But i have to fall in line w/ this.. If they'll pay you to go to school plus pay some/all the bill I think this is a good direction..
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Bite the bullet, knock out some college. You are 25, and while that may seem like the perfect time to get out and do something you love you are too young to think about 'what you like.' You need to spend the next 3-5 years building a career that will provide for you and a family for the next 25 years. Screw what you like now, build for where you need to be when you 40 years old. That means, bite the bullet now, and get your BA or BS in a field that produces a serious paycheck.
On the note of college, do not get a degree in mid-19th century voting patterns of Central England, or some other worthless degree. Don't even get a degree in general studies. Find a subject that produces a solid income when you are done. Engineering pays more than English or History. Technical school can get you a great blue collar job making $50k/yr. The Wall Street Journal has tracked the number of BAs that work as janitors. As of last count it was roughly 145,000. Think about that. They spent 4+ years getting a BA, wracked up an average of $28k in debt and now the only job they can get is that of a janitor.
Choose wisely. Sacrifice now to prepare for a great job down the road. If you are not married, it will always be much easier to go to college single than when you have a wife and some kids.
boo
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I was in the same position but I was 22 with a MCL badly cut by a USAF surgeon and it looked like I'd never walk right again. I got out and after a few operations with the VA and lotsa rehab I ended up a 40 mile a week runner. I went back to school, banging nursing students full time in a garden APT of my Mums building. Worked about full time too, in a couple of years I was a sworn civilian LEO.
Those were tough years :D The nursing students got me thru them. There is life after military service.
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I'd say take Rich's advice......all of it.....I mean down to the letter.......every smallest aspect of it. :D
Best of luck, and mthrock is right.....think about you at 40 and what employers are going to be looking for in an employee. Again best of luck, and I hope your decision works out...all the best!
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Don't leave anything on the table, get everything you wanted from the military before you go,, college is good, free college is better,,,but Rich is right, life after service can be great, I had a blast while serving but had to get out (health and other issues), I wish I could have stayed and served my twenty but medically , that wasn't possible.. Make darn sure you get a good physical both before and after you get out, whenever that might be, treat leaving the military just like leaving any other job and make sure you get what's due to you!
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One thing to consider, even if you make a career out of the military, after you retire from it you are still going to have to start a second career. The sooner you start preparing for that second career the better.
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Junky Thanks for the clarification. Yeah things do tend to change after you've been in a bit. That's kinda normal so don't be too down on it just yet. You know that the farther you go the more it WILL change and the more it won't push the same buttons for you. You will always get farther and farther from the field grunt aspect you enjoyed at the squad level. All of us look back and think the first set of jobs we had in the service were the best at the lower end of the troop leading segment. More stripes or changes in "brass" akways take you outside of the close to the troop envirironment you have now. Ask any senior NCO and I think he will tell you the same thing.
In all I'd give serious consideration to the recruiter job with an eye to getting more education under your belt. At least for the short term. That also gives you a chance to start investigating employment oportunities while you still have options.
In regards to the Inf situation. Don't give up looking at other career fields just yet. Do some research and see if there isn't another branch that would give you some of the same feeling of belonging as you have now. Punching out at age 40 (or there abouts) with a pension is a great start for a second career.
I'd also be real serious about getting a second opinion about the knee and what it would take to put it back the way it should be. Spend some money out of pocket for an opinion from the civilian sector, especially if you can find someone who does a lot of sports injury work. Let them tell you what the prospects are for it then you can decide to either lobby the military side of it or not. That may let you keep the Inf career choice after all. Keep in mind the Military medical options are not necessarily geared towards retention but the bottom line. As long as there is a surplus of folks signing up they can be choosey about how much to invest on the rehab side so they may not be willing to even be serious about it at first look.
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Maybe I missed it... but how long have you been in?
I made my decision to stick with it at 10yrs... based on whether or not I could get the hell out of Security Forces and into something else (anyfreekingthing else), or not.
You should be going to school either way... nuff said. Education benefits: USE EVERY PENNY YOU CAN GET STARTING RIGHT FREEKING NOW.
I don't know if you are stuck with Post 9/11 or can get Montgomery GIBill. If you get out and want to go to school, the Montgomery can be a huge help financially (Obviously Post 9/11 is too, but I can explain later if needed). Don't count too much on your disability. Not sure how it works for folks who separate due to medical problems, but here's how it worked out for me. I retired at 21yrs with 30% disability. So here's how generous they are... the DoD removes 30% of my "retired paycheck", and the VA re-issues that amount to me tax free. In the long run, it works out to a few hundred dollars a year. Hooray for Vets.
If you've only been in for a few years, you probably haven't forgotten much about civilian life. It's mighty scary when you've been in for 10, 15 or 20... but then when you get there, no problem. You're a cut above the rest to begin with, you'll do fine. Of course, you'll spend a couple of years living with that feeling of dread because you KNOW you're ~supposed~ to BE somewhere. It fades.
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25yo is awfully young to write off a knee. Most of all with 2014 medicine. Hell, they have 40 somethings with knee replacements running marathons. Had I not blown my MCL I might have stayed in USAF as career enlisted. I look back now and see those days as the best in my life and at the time I was saying the same thing, "how its not the same USAF anymore".
The grass is always greener on the other side. Military service is considered a much more honorable career nowdays then when I was in because these civvie pukes are scared and realize only our military can protect them. Back when I was in, Post 'nam, nobody cared and the ones that did figured no war could happen that would last over 20 mins. The Red's and We had about 22,000 deliverable strategic weapons alone on trip wire.
Im very impressed with todays troops and I see them all the time at the airport I work at. Its so nice to see polite youngsters with enough self respect to respect others instead of these 18yo Mommies boys checking you out at the grocery calling you "Dude".
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Stay in and get the Recruiter time in. Get the Schooling in. By the time you come off of status, you can have a Master's finished.
If you want to stay in for time after that, I would start MRB paperwork to reclass MOS.
Get a copy of every Medical report you have for your VA Disability Packet, so when you ETS (or Medical retire)
you'll have copies to substantiate your disability and percentage. As you know, they love to lose
paperwork. Best Wishes Junky
:salute Oz
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Don't know whether my opinion is worth much here, but here it is :D
Background, Navy from 76-80 (was off the coast of Iran during the hostage crises), basically working the same job since then because it's a job I enjoy (repairing vending machines).
I almost stayed in the NAVY. Iran was getting pushy and I didn't want to be in the middle of a war and so got out. That 20 years looks easy after the first 4 are over. My cousin did his full stint through desert shield and desert storm and is now a fitness instructor at a YMCA with full benefits, tough life :P
You are young and basically "free" at this time. You mentioned flight controller, see if there is a chance you can switch over to that. Im sure they will ask for more time added on, but that will put you in the position of being about half way through your full stint. By then you will know if it is the job for you or not. I fell into my job and found I loved being on the road driving from spot to spot fixing machines and still being home for dinner each night. If you find that recruiting, or traffic control is that thing that makes you happy then go for it. Now is the time to look for and find that thing you love to do and make money at it.
You can make a lot of money at coding but if you hate coding you won't last long. Believe it or not you can live with less money and be more happy than if you have a bunch rolling in and your miserable.
So basically, if your happy doing what your doing, keep at it. If your ok with the lifestyle your in stick with it and get more training and experience, pad your "bank" with as much as you can. Down the road you'll have more options open to you.
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You are 25 with a bad knee. In the blink of an eye you are gonna be 40 with an even worse knee. Get it fixed and look ahead about 20 years not 3 years. What do you envision yourself doing? Think about your financial situation. What education or job skills do I have or can I get to live comfortably pre retirement and most importantly POST retirement? If you dont have a plan in place and just hope on winging it, good luck. The people looking for jobs far out number the jobs available right now and I dont see it getting better in the next few years. Not trying to scare you but the world will look a whole lot scarier for you at age 40, 50, 60 and so on if you havent taken the proper steps to prepare.
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Thank you all for the advice and all of it helps!!
:salute
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junky stick around the services for as long as you can while taking classes. you can always quit later but the later you quit the better. I wish I had stuck around a bit longer.
semp
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If you already know what you want to do for a career. Start is as soon as possible. the sooner you start, the better pay you will have when you are older. Along with benefits and leave.
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JunkyII,
You've had some excellent advice given to you in this thread and I am going to add a bit of spice to it because I was actually a USMC Recruiter during the post Viet Nam era from 1976-1979 and I can tell you from personal experience that Recruiting Duty is the toughest duty you will ever pull in Military Service, apart from actual combat!
Why...it's because it's like you're in combat every single day and every single thing you do, or say, will be subject to scrutiny by the public. You will have few, if any days off. You will eat, sleep, drink, breathe, and talk nothing but Army, day in, and day out. If you say something that offends someone, even though they mistook your meaning or intention, it is bad press, and bad press is bad for Army Recruiting, and you will be held responsible by your Command. If you are married, you will seldom see your wife, and it is a sad statistic that an extremely large percentage of the marriages of recruiters end in divorce due to the huge time commitment a recruiter must make away from his family.
You will have an enlistment and shipment quota to meet each month. If you fail to meet quota, you fail to make Mission! If you fail to make quota often enough your career may suffer. On the other hand, if you are so desperate to make quota and you fail to follow proper screening and enlistment procedures and actually fraud someone into the Army for the sake of making quota, I guarantee you your career will suffer! You may even spend some time in jail! Back when I was recruiting our service number was tied to each recruit we enlisted for the duration of that recruit's enlistment. So, not only were the number of recruits enlisted tracked, but the quality of the recruit enlisted was tracked! What that meant was, if you showed a pattern of enlisting substandard recruits your career would definitely not be having many more good days.
Recruiting Duty is a sales position. Think about this statement a bit because this is the crux of recruiting. What you are actually selling a potential enlistee is (unless the military obligation has changed since I enlisted), six years of his/her life, with (x) years on active duty (during which time he/she may encounter combat and be killed) and the remainder to be served in active, or inactive reserve. Since you are on active duty, you bought this line...can you sell it day in and day out, 24 hours a day, seven days a week for several years? And just one other thing to mention...Recruiting Duty will teach you to learn more about the Army and it's opportunities (because that is also what you are selling) so it may help you further your career by opening your eyes to other fields within the Army.
My advice to you at age 25 (I was 25 my first year of Recruiting Duty) is this: if you are not going to stay in the Army for the full 20, then get out now, before recruiting school, if possible, and use what G.I. benefits you have to get schooling, or learn a trade. If you are going to make the Army a career, then embrace Recruiting Duty and move forward and don't look back!
As for your knee...pay the out of pocket expense to get a civilian opinion and compare it to the opinion the Army gives you. Not knowing your circumstance I cannot advise you further on this issue. I will, however, mention that I was raised in the Army and that the Army provided me with all of my medical care as a youth until my father retired in 1962, but then resumed it's responsibility to me when I enlisted in the Army in 1968 (I had two periods of service in two branches). During my tenure under Army Medical Care I was stitched up 5 times, had 3 broken bones repaired, suffered through all of the normal childhood diseases and suffered through all of the childhood and adult inoculations. In 1957 I was administered an experimental Rabies Vaccine for a dog bite while we were station in France. Did you know that the Rabies Virus is more lethal than the Ebola Virus? I survived the inoculation. The dog that bit me did not survive. The Army had given my parents a choice between me dieing of the Rabies Virus, or me dieing from the Rabies Vaccine. Mom had been an Army Nurse in WWII where she met Dad who was recovering from wounds after three years of combat in the Pacific...they trusted Army Medical Care.
You have a lot to think about. Take some time and talk seriously with your Army Career Planer and make your knee issue known (he's probably a former Recruiter and he has a quota also, so be alert to sales techniques). Most importantly, don't give up on what you really want.
OH! Just as an aside...I failed to mention another Recruiting statistic: almost 90% of single Recruiters end their tours married! DOH!
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Just wanted to dip in and say great post Patches, I really enjoyed reading that.
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Why...it's because it's like you're in combat every single day and every single thing you do, or say, will be subject to scrutiny by the public. You will have few, if any days off. You will eat, sleep, drink, breathe, and talk nothing but Army, day in, and day out. If you say something that offends someone, even though they mistook your meaning or intention, it is bad press, and bad press is bad for Army Recruiting, and you will be held responsible by your Command. If you are married, you will seldom see your wife, and it is a sad statistic that an extremely large percentage of the marriages of recruiters end in divorce due to the huge time commitment a recruiter must make away from his family.
Which is why I sat down and typed a letter of thank you and commendation to the C.O. of the recruiter who took care of the son. I never told him until the end I was a USAF vet, let alone I knew the answers to "most" of the questions my kid had. The SSGT was straight and professional and didnt blow smoke up my kids Butt, like mine did lol, so I felt he deserved to shine in his commanders eyes.
I dont write many such letters and when I do they are earned. And they help a young NCO taking on a recruiters job so if anyone has a kid joining and feels like the recruiter earned it I'd encourage them to write his C.O. and say so.
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JunkyII,
During my tenure under Army Medical Care I was stitched up 5 times, had 3 broken bones repaired, suffered through all of the normal childhood diseases and suffered through all of the childhood and adult inoculations. In 1957 I was administered an experimental Rabies Vaccine for a dog bite while we were station in France. Did you know that the Rabies Virus is more lethal than the Ebola Virus? I survived the inoculation. The dog that bit me did not survive. The Army had given my parents a choice between me dieing of the Rabies Virus, or me dieing from the Rabies Vaccine.
Patches,
Thank you for proving the vaccine would not kill humans. Bet it was called the Pasture Series. 21 intramuscular shots into the abdominal muscles. Felt like every day for 10 days someone was stabbing you in the stomach with 2 inch long finishing nails. 1963 in Peshawar Pakistan at the Peshawar Air Station 6937th CG U2 ground control station. A rabid bat bit me when I was 7. Back when the military still shipped family's to remote stations. Three months after I received my series, the three shot series to the arm or thigh muscles came out.
They always thought a cobra or krait would get us kids. We ended up in the infirmary for broken bones, removal of home made arrows and toy swords and spears, sewing up from falls and spills from bicycles jousting. No snake bites. When the 300 Spartans movie came through, we kids all rounded up every trash can lid on the station, and re-fought Thermopile. Same with every medieval epic, roman or greek war movie that showed at the base theater. Pre computer game carnage. Explaining why there was an arrow in my leg or needing stiches to an AP when I was 5-7 was a common place event for us kids.
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Hey Junky, many moons ago a friend of mine was a WO helo (sorry, "chopper" :D) pilot. If your knee is up to it, that might be a possibility. But I have no idea what the Army requires for WOs.
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Patches,
Thank you for proving the vaccine would not kill humans. Bet it was called the Pasture Series. 21 intramuscular shots into the abdominal muscles. Felt like every day for 10 days someone was stabbing you in the stomach with 2 inch long finishing nails. 1963 in Peshawar Pakistan at the Peshawar Air Station 6937th CG U2 ground control station. A rabid bat bit me when I was 7. Back when the military still shipped family's to remote stations. Three months after I received my series, the three shot series to the arm or thigh muscles came out.
Hey, Bustr! Welcome to the Rabies Club! LOL! Yeah, they hurt like...well, you described it very accurately! In addition to the abdominal shots I also received bicyllin shots in the thighs and those buggers hurt like the dickens!
But! As you so eloquently described, kids are tough and resilient.
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Why...it's because it's like you're in combat every single day and every single thing you do, or say, will be subject to scrutiny by the public. You will have few, if any days off. You will eat, sleep, drink, breathe, and talk nothing but Army, day in, and day out. If you say something that offends someone, even though they mistook your meaning or intention, it is bad press, and bad press is bad for Army Recruiting, and you will be held responsible by your Command. If you are married, you will seldom see your wife, and it is a sad statistic that an extremely large percentage of the marriages of recruiters end in divorce due to the huge time commitment a recruiter must make away from his family.
Which is why I sat down and typed a letter of thank you and commendation to the C.O. of the recruiter who took care of the son. I never told him until the end I was a USAF vet, let alone I knew the answers to "most" of the questions my kid had. The SSGT was straight and professional and didnt blow smoke up my kids Butt, like mine did lol, so I felt he deserved to shine in his commanders eyes.
I dont write many such letters and when I do they are earned. And they help a young NCO taking on a recruiters job so if anyone has a kid joining and feels like the recruiter earned it I'd encourage them to write his C.O. and say so.
Rich46yo,
I thank you for taking the time to write a letter of appreciation to the CO of your Son's recruiter. Letters such as yours were extremely rare during my recruiting tour so I can appreciate it's value to the Recruiter, and his Command.
When I read about this in your post it reminded me of a time during recruiting duty (1976) when I was an enrolled student at a community college and I was wearing my uniform on campus. It was between classes and I was passing through the Student Union Hall to get to my next class and I was suddenly surrounded by a group of student activists and the leader, a female, asked loudly, "What right do have to be on this Campus?". Mind you, I'm in uniform, I am a Viet Nam Veteran and I really did not take kindly to her tone, nor her insinuation, but I remained calm and professional, and simply replied, " Ma'am, it's people like me who make it possible for people like you to ask the question you just asked."...and I calmly walked away amid a swell of applause that I did not expect. I fully expected that my Command would hear about this encounter (they did) and would crucify me (they didn't) and I was quite certain my career was at an end. Recruiting Duty is like walking through a minefield that is not only full of mines, but also full of tripwires and tangle-foot to boot! The stress of Recruiting Duty is unbelievable! You never know when something you say or do, or something someone overheard you say and misinterpreted what you said, will come back to haunt you.
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Yeah these colleges have some real screwballs among them. Even the High Schools do, most of all among the faculty.
What I despise most among them is that #1 they cant tell the difference between the decision makers who send troops into combat and the troops themselves who simply have no choice but to follow orders. #2 I dont even think it matters to them because they are caught up in their own narcissism, thinking their opinions are so GD important and their crusade against the great American Institutions so just. Morons!
Thats one thing spending 18 mos in a 3rd world ghetto,carrying a black rifle, will teach you. To appreciate America, its freedoms, and most of all honor those who have worn the uniform to preserve and defend it. I admire your ability to deal with these college goofballs as a recruiter. I couldn't do it.