Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: darkzking on November 06, 2014, 03:00:45 PM
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make the Strat factories huge so that carpet bombing in mass formations is the only way to get serious damage onto them :cheers:
and then maybe we can see more of this (http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/42/ce/65/42ce6521e26901aef98d231fdf9bde2c.jpg)
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If they were also moved close to the front lines and had vehicle spawns into them, +1.
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The central strats had been a great mass mission target. Now every target left takes only 1-2 bombers to be smashed thorougly.
My only hope is the current setup with it's many flaws will be significanlty corrected after the next update. That's the only reason I'm still here.
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I believe this could be fixed very easily.
1.) HQ strat needs to be buffed up. Defences and down load.
2.) IF the strats are going to be close to the front lines, add friendly GV spawns INTO the strats. If this was to be added, the DT for the strats should be extended.
3.) On the smaller maps. Group all the strats into one big manufacturing area behind our "Big 3" red bases. Beef up the auto-ack and allow radar to be extended to about 50 miles.
Just things that could be done.
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Spreading out they layout of each strat, could make it so it would require a lone set or two to make at least few passes. As is, it's easy to make 1-2 passes as a lone set to do a lot of damage.
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Even a medium bomber as The B-25C with 6x500lbs can take down 25% of a factory in one pass and this takes away any need of large bomber formations. And a few slow firing 37mm guns at the factories is not exactly frightening. Having all strats in the city was a better and motivated to big bomber raids that could add another dimension to the game with some high altitude fighing and bomber interception.
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I dong think the Strats ever should've been separated in the first place.
+1
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Well to be fair - the new terrain engine should give you hope :)
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Even a medium bomber as The B-25C with 6x500lbs can take down 25% of a factory in one pass and this takes away any need of large bomber formations. And a few slow firing 37mm guns at the factories is not exactly frightening. Having all strats in the city was a better and motivated to big bomber raids that could add another dimension to the game with some high altitude fighing and bomber interception.
25%? try 70%. A single 110G can knock down 20% of a Strat.
I like the Idea of 2 sets of strats. A main Centralized Strats which surrounds the city, than strats that are separated and closer to the Front lines.
Jabo missions attack Strat Factories are actually very fun, but with the centralized strats its pretty tough because of the heavily armed AAA towers that are present.
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i disliked the idea of all the strats bunched up i would like to see them still spaced out but the amount of actual factory buildings see a HUGE increase as to make sure only big bomber raids/b29s can do any serious damage to them
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It is BETTER that the strats are split up. It gives more aircraft the chance to be a part of the "hammer strats" strategy. Previously, when the strats were bunched up in one big package the only way to get the job done with any chance of survival was to get to 25,000+ altitude. Now, the "hit-n-run" attack is very much alive. The low altitdue fast movers can get in and deal a blow and get out. Aircraft like the Mossi FB Mk IV, 1100-G-2, etc, etc, now all have extra worth.
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It is BETTER that the strats are split up. It gives more aircraft the chance to be a part of the "hammer strats" strategy. Previously, when the strats were bunched up in one big package the only way to get the job done with any chance of survival was to get to 25,000+ altitude. Now, the "hit-n-run" attack is very much alive. The low altitdue fast movers can get in and deal a blow and get out. Aircraft like the Mossi FB Mk IV, 1100-G-2, etc, etc, now all have extra worth.
It's more than just very much alive it's like the primary method we see.
It's using time better, since they're split who would rather climb to 25K when their competition is 20K below and closing faster on target.
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Yes, make the strats very large and keep them seperated.
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It's more than just very much alive it's like the primary method we see.
It's using time better, since they're split who would rather climb to 25K when their competition is 20K below and closing faster on target.
Thing is, the guys who want to go to 25k+ can still do so and nothing has changed for them save for the size of the target. Instead of making a few passes over the same complex, they mey need to go a few sectors and hit another factory, but all in all the current set up is better for all, imo.
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Thing is, the guys who want to go to 25k+ can still do so and nothing has changed for them save for the size of the target. Instead of making a few passes over the same complex, they mey need to go a few sectors and hit another factory, but all in all the current set up is better for all, imo.
I have yet to find a word in the English language that would help me to express how much I disagree with this.
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Snailman, the word you are looking for is: Mega-ultra-no. It's the only double hyphenated word in the English language and is used a lot in these type of expressions.
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Snailman, the word you are looking for is: Mega-ultra-no. It's the only double hyphenated word in the English language and is used a lot in these type of expressions.
Gargantu-hyper-no? :D
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IMO There needs to be 3-5 of each strat type, somewhat dispersed. one strat could be wiped out but still only effect 33%-20% (for example) of the total amount of "output" for each industry type. Maybe have 2-3 strats of different types grouped up to represent heavy indutrial areas. Dont have to change the models and would also make resupping 3-5 times more challenging. <S>
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I like the idea if dispersed strats on the larger maps, but IMHO the old mega strat complex seems more suitable for medium and small maps. It seems odd to me that on certain maps vital strat factories sit right at the front.
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Ya know, if we are lucky. Waffle will load up our maps with all kinds of nonsense to nowhere, to run useless jabo missions at, so evil baby seal clubbers can pad their kill streaks and perk banks. Marshalling yards, factories, roads and tracks all connected that accomplish nothing but attract GVers to hide from each other and jabo. But, constantly run trains and vehicals so 2 weekers and baby seals can feel like they are accomplishing something jaboing them. While evil vets in GV and fighters hunt the baby seals.
Kind of like the eyecandy overloaded arenas in FPS games that the players run around in slaughtering each other and blowing up everything around them gratuitously for grins and kabooms.
Things to make go boom for the kaboom of it. The illusion of activity. And the off chance of someone trying to put a round or two in your kester that you can shoot back at or run away from going neener neener to on ch200. While half the country is hiding making irrelevant things go boom. Someone is stealing their undefended bases and going neener neener on ch200 back at them.
Pretty much what happens at TT in CraterMA and guys spend hours doing nothing but that.
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The strats main task is imo to add a strategic part to the game, by conducting long range bombing missions a player is able to help his country by making base taking easier. The factories should be located out of reach for JABO:s or at least they should not be able to inflict any significant damage. I suggest that the factories are moved back to the city and that more cities with strats are added to the maps. With 2 cities the strats will be at 50% even if one city is flatten. In that way a lone bomber cannot take down 95% of a factory. It gives bomber guys more targets and it prevent that a country become completely crippled by having 2 hours down time on guns and ords.
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I have to agree that putting strats near bases so they can be milkrunned by the other side is terrible. Take me back to the mega city with all the strats around it, give it some hellish ack, and put the 262s and 163s right there.
I fly big bombers - I want action before I rain destruction down upon your strats. I want to get together with my entire squad and we all come over, rain destruction down upon your strats, and punish you for your sheepshagging.
I am here to chew bubblegum and drop bombs - and I am all out of bubblegum.
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I think the separated strats are more of a pain than they are worth, especially as a tactical bomber pilot like me....
I like to lift out of a forward base in my Mossie 16, come in at high speed, slam something, and run like hell. But as soon as the Ord strats are overrun, people pork a lot of the bases and I have to fly several sectors to hit a target....
If it were me, I would have 2 sets of strats, one forward and one centralized in the rear. It would be easier to knock down the forward strat, but I think it should only do a fraction of the damage (maybe 25%). The rear strat would account for the rest and be better defended....
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The central strats had been a great mass mission target. Now every target left takes only 1-2 bombers to be smashed thorougly.
My only hope is the current setup with it's many flaws will be significanlty corrected after the next update. That's the only reason I'm still here.
The "flaws" in which you have labeled are a matter of opinion. Forget showing any pie charts, bar graphs, or other such information tool. As we all know, we can make numbers say anything we want them to.
As it stands now, there are far more variety of planes being used to hammer the strats.
If HTC were to do anything, I'd suggest to take the epicenters they used to have (ammo, barracks, fuel, radar, AAA, and city), and have the ENTIRE complex represent a single factory typce. It would increase the size of the factories, but it would also still allow for single attack planes to be useful and also allow for massed bombers to be a thing to contend with.
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The "flaws" in which you have labeled are a matter of opinion. Forget showing any pie charts, bar graphs, or other such information tool. As we all know, we can make numbers say anything we want them to.
What exactly do you maen by this. What charts you are referring too? I can't remeber having posted anything like that, so what are you really trying to say?
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a Newb's perspective:
I came into the game JUST before the strategic factories became spread out (at the communities request I believe); I was lucky enough to be on the offensive and defensive sides of the "strat raid", those dedicated pilots who are willing to spend the time,blood,sweat, & tears to get to the strat factories.
It actually what hooked me on the game; seeing so many aircraft with a common goal and even looking good in their formations of bombers and escorts.
I get why the strats were dispersed; but the unfortunate side effect was also dispersing the attackers. Not the end of the world, but certainly not as fun as seeing that huge dar bar creep towards our land... I'd like to see larger maps with centralized strats but with added defensive ack significantly beefed up for the de-centralized strats... :pray be gentle...
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I killed knight hq last night and it was up in 5 minutes.
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What exactly do you maen by this. What charts you are referring too? I can't remeber having posted anything like that, so what are you really trying to say?
Your quick to pull up charts, graphs, and other such tools to try a prove a point of yours. Pick a stat of any sort and you've likely charted it. No offense intended, just an observation. ;)
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What is needed are 3 kinds of strats.
Local - Move strats off the field but separate from the town and make it take more to take em all down effects local individual bases only.
Defense. - Short GV drive from field Auto defence The same as field and town auto ack with perhaps a couple of man able howitzers
Regional or zone - Harder to take all the way down resupplys local or zone strats (2-3 bases). Larger targets that when downed reduce resupply time unless resupplied manually
Defense - Gv spawn into general area. Full auto ack puffy ack about the same scale as a CV
National strats - located in the deepest parts of a country. Very large target areas on the scale of what the big city strats were before. Effects resupply and type of supply available to regional and local strats
Defense- GV spawn ins from uncapturable fields, and within range of 163s. Massive amount of autoack the kind of the storied "you can walk from one to the next". This should be a real and dangerous challenge for even missions. not a milkrun. Even if you make it unopposed when you're done you should be saying "Wow."
Local and regional strats would make nice short to moderate range targets for bombers and battlegrounds for GVs Think tanktown with a reason for being there other then to just be there.
All strats should be resupply-able from a supplied base with local strats being the easiest to resupply. Zone strats moderate. and national most difficult
Also scoring should coincide with the targets and difficulty level. Lowest scoring should be local. next highest regional. But the really big score is on the national target.
Likewise you should also receive a higher score by shooting down attackers over a national target area
This provides a reason for both sides attacker and defender alike to fight over everything
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I was a big advocate of disbursing the central strats, posting my thoughts on the matter on several occasions. What had been lost in centralizing the strats was diversity and spreading the fights across the map. With the central strats you were no longer able to use attack aircraft or GV's to attack them. There were fewer viable targets for rocket use, both from PT boats and Skd's. Bombers, unless willing to spend hours trying to get to the central strats had no targets other than fields. And the fights to defend these outposts had evaporated, concentrating even more people into the games hordes. I still believe in these and other ideas I posted on de-centralization.
That said the implementation of de-centralization was far from what I'd expected. Rather than a return to the old zone strat system with one of each type of strat supplying a select number of bases and multiple zones located throughout the map, thus multiples of each type of strat, we wound up with one of each type supplying the entire country and often located in indefensible positions.
I've also come to the realization that the large central strat complexes did serve a purpose for those interested in large bomber missions.
At this point I believe the best solution would be a combination of the old zone strat system combined with the large central strats, each supplying 50% to the respective zones. Thus, if the central fuel is down to 60% countrywide supply is at 80% (60% x 50% + 100% x 50% = 80%). If a zone fuel factory is then taken down to 50% then that zone's fuel supply is reduced to 55% (60% x 50% + 50% x 50% = 55%). I could even see the central strats supplying slightly more, say 60% of total supply with zone strats supplying the rest. I'd also make the central strats heavily defended by puffy ack with zone strats left as they are.
This would allow for more variety of fighting throughout the arena while bringing back the need for larger, more organized bomber raids and introducing a more complex strategic element to gameplay. At the same time I would not reintroduce the "mobile strats" we saw in the prior implementation of the central strat system.
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Centralise the big strats for strategic bombing raids
Bring back Depots...... ( played with for a short time during AH1) for local tactical resource attrition.
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I notice the new trains don't fire at the cons blowing them up........or only fire very rarely.
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I have yet to find a word in the English language that would help me to express how much I disagree with this.
Rubbish !!!!
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+1 !
make the Strat factories huge so that carpet bombing in mass formations is the only way to get serious damage onto them :cheers:
and then maybe we can see more of this (http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/42/ce/65/42ce6521e26901aef98d231fdf9bde2c.jpg)
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+1 !
I've often thought that doubling the size of city and factory(s), and halving the hardness of the OBJ would be the way to go.
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I've often thought that doubling the size of city and factory(s), and halving the hardness of the OBJ would be the way to go.
Yeah I really hate the new setup.
When you lose even a base within 1-2 sectors of ANY factory consider it useless.
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Yeah I really hate the new setup.
When you lose even a base within 1-2 sectors of ANY factory consider it useless.
I dont mind that so much, I think the current situating of the factories is good. It allows for more types of aircraft to be used to hammer the strats. I just think that perhaps if the targets were larger, with hardness setting lighter, that even more aircraft would be used on a more consistant basis.
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When you lose even a base within 1-2 sectors of ANY factory consider it useless.
Doesn't even need to go that far.
On some maps, the factories sit at the actual frontline, even directly in front of an enemy high alt base (smpizza) and are absolutely indefensible, for example against a NOE con. I have almost entirely given up trying to defend them, I can get kills there, but in the end it's utter pointless. They are going to be down, no matter what, affecting the whole country for hours. I have aslo largely given up attacking them, which I actually did much more than defending.
And whats even worse is the inbalance in placement. On country having a key factory like AA a safe distance back or covered by a Komet base, while another has the very same up front and on the edge of the map.
At the same time, we know lack a larger target that's actually worth putting a big raid together.
It's a travesty. If it really were about giving targets for medium ranged bombers, additional targets with a more regional impactg (zone) would have been the way to go.
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Many hope the strat in some special incarnation will attract unnamed players to put up missions to feed their need to predate on groups of bombers. Rarely does that really happen. Where ever and however the strat are presented, the individual bomber pilot has a target if he wants to make the investment. Seems even our bomber pilots are finicky about where they want to poop or expose themselves to predation.
This decade long conversation is predicated on unnamed players doing things the participants are sure they will be attracted to by getting the right configuration and placement of strats. The voices that simply want a target of some specification tailored to their idiosyncrasy are understandable in any game of this kind. The ones arguing over what the "Just Right" strat configuration is, as an enticement for unnamed players to expose themselves to become their victims. Seem to never look at the target from their victims perspective in it's configuration as bait.
Ever ask yourselves what the average, lazy, semi game skilled player wants to go bomb as a strat? I doubt it.
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. The ones arguing over what the "Just Right" strat configuration is, as an enticement for unnamed players to expose themselves to become their victims. Seem to never look at the target from their victims perspective in it's configuration as bait.
Good thing then I haveily did both all the time, attacking the central strats as well as defending them. :)
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Ever ask yourselves what the average, lazy, semi game skilled player wants to go bomb as a strat? I doubt it.
The biggest thrill for me is to shoot down, legitimately, an ENY 5-10 fighter while in a ENY 30+ fighter, and to deliver a substantial amount of damage to a strat target in a Mossi Mk IV, Ju88's, or He111's, AND make it back alive. :aok :D
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You are only speaking about your feelings. Just like everyone feels the way they think the strats should be configured and laid out will attract everyone else because they feel good about their own ideas.
Once again for the 98% of players who don't populate these forums.
Ever ask yourselves what the average, lazy, semi game skilled player wants to go bomb as a strat? I doubt it.
That question is the source of why much of the time you gents think HiTech is crazy for not listening to you. You don't ask the same questions he does about the other 98%. You guys are convinced you know what is good for them because you are thinking up the idea.
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You are only speaking about your feelings. Just like everyone feels the way they think the strats should be configured and laid out will attract everyone else because they feel good about their own ideas.
Once again for the 98% of players who don't populate these forums.
Ever ask yourselves what the average, lazy, semi game skilled player wants to go bomb as a strat? I doubt it.
That question is the source of why much of the time you gents think HiTech is crazy for not listening to you. You don't ask the same questions he does about the other 98%. You guys are convinced you know what is good for them because you are thinking up the idea.
Actually, my "feelings" are quite tertiary when it comes to my suggestions in AH. As the strats are now, more planes are being used to hammer them unlike when they were centrally located. Hard to argue against the game play benefit of that.
If I were to bring in my emotions like a errant padawan, I'd damn the La7, P51D, Spit 16, 109K-4, A20, and every other knee jerk arcade plane in AH. I'd make it so those planes would cost players perks regardless of a successful landing or not. I'd make it so players were forced to try other planes and to appreciate what the arcade planes gave them instead of thinking of them as the norm. THAT is a "feeling". You might want to rethink your "you guys" statement, you're a bit over inclusive, laddy.