Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: PanosGR on November 06, 2014, 04:49:34 PM
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See that tragic accident in Russia. Unfortunately the student pilot is dead and the instructor heavily wounded. After an unsuccessful landing he plane bank to the left and then it stalls. The way I see it is instructor’s fault.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCbuC4W84dg
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Yea I don't know exactly the details of what was going on in the cockpit. But you are correct, I think the instructor should have at least been ghosting the controls after the bad landing attempt. Remember, ATC can cuss at you, laugh at you all day long; but as long as you are alive, that's what counts. Aviate, navigate, and communicate (in that order).
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They makes a lot of misstakes:
First error is to turn immediate after go around is initiated and they don't have enough speed and altitude to clear the trees. They had a very high AoA well before they reached the trees and when they pulled up and turned they where pretty much doomed. Climbing at stall speed reduces climb rate significantly because of the massive drag the wing creates at high AoA. Better move is to keep nose down and build speed before pulling up and "zoom" over the trees.
At the stall they pull stick Back-Right, which is the worst thing u can do in that situation, the aileron is causing left wing tip to stall first and its only increasing the bank to the left. At that altitude they probably haven't been able to save the plane anyway but at a higher altitude the stick input would most likely put them in a spin. A front-left (or simply just front) stick input is used to recover from such stall. But as i said they where too low to recover but on the other hand a straight stall might have reduce the forces on impact.
Edit: saw another thing now, The instructor did not apply full throttle at the go around, he even reduce the throttle before adding full power just before the tree line.
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They makes a lot of misstakes
Agreed. The turn at low alt being the most serious.
You do wonder what the instructor was thinking.
- oldman
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Edit: saw another thing now, The instructor did not apply full throttle at the go around, he even reduce the throttle before adding full power just before the tree line.
I'm not even a pilot and I noticed that.. I was like, Shoot, this won't end well..
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Seems that the student is uncertain of what to do after the go around and let the plane weer of to the left, he is looking at the instructor several times but the instructor don't give him the feedback he need. When they stall the student just takes his hand of the stick but the instructor is not prepared to take over the control of the aircraft. Student is probably at a very early stage in his training and have prob <10 hours of flying time so he is not the one to blame, students makes misstake, that's why u have the instructor on board to correct them but in this case he fails to react until its too late.
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Maybe everyone overlooked the instructor's left hand moving to the throttle? At that point, if I'm the student, I let go and let the instructor fly. This student didn't do that immediately.
Watching the sequence:
I saw a pretty fast approach with a right to left cross wind component (no flaps?) - the quick departure from center line - failure to fully and immediately transfer control - an impossible climb to avoid terrain - then the instructor flew the aircraft into a full stall with snap at the end (maybe with left aileron and full left rudder inputs?).
I intentionally only watched this once. What did I miss?
It's not easy to watch somebody die like this. I can't imagine what the instructor is dealing with.
:salute
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Reduction of power during the climb was the instructor's fatal error. It's like he brain-farted and forgot the trees were there until it was too late. It also looked like they veered off the runway to the left rather than it being an intentional turn. If you look at the stick during that turn the student is holding it all the way to the right indicating that the left wing was partially stalled. Also seems to be some confusion about which one of them got killed. I heard the instructor was killed and the student survived but is in critical condition.
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Surprised that even in Russia someone would release an internal video of an accident where someone was killed so soon after the event. Two friends of mine were killed in a training accident two years ago in a similar accident. Although they ran out of fuel and spun in after a botched attempt at a forced landing. I certainly wouldn't want to see the video of that all over the internet. Neither would their families.
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Is it confirmed that it was an instructor and student? I'm wondering if it was someone letting his buddy fly, the guy in the right seat didn't seem to have the survival skills that most flight instructors develop. Any idea what type aircraft?
Video certainly raises some questions.
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what i see. bear in mind i ain't been up in around 5 years.
approach looked sloppy. looked like they were off center on short final, and centered as they got to the threshold. looked way late in flaring. i'm presuming that his left hand is on the throttle? although i don't know what civilian aircraft has left hand throttle. i make that presumption only because i see his hand press in when the right seat guy presses the throttle in. anyway.....if that was the throttle, i didn't see him pull to idle when he flared, then i see the right seat guy press it open.
when the throttle's opened, i see the plane bank hard left,(1st bad link in the chain) and judging by the sight picture, looks like only aileron correction. i feel there needed to be rudder correction there too. next, i see the right seat guy pull the throttle back, while they're still in a climb.(2nd bad link in the chain) i think this set up the stall that ultimately took them into the trees. right after he pulls throttle, and they both look around, he firewalls it again. at this point, it looks like the plane just started dropping the nose to the left. left seat guy looked to be doing just aileron/elevator correction, which accelerated the stall.(3rd bad link)
all that said, if right seat guy was an instructor, he should've been on the stick and pedals right back off the runway(as soon as the plane initially banked left). if he wasn't an instructor, then he shouldn't have touched that throttle at all.
of course this is all conjecture. i could be wrong. it happened a couple times i think.