Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: Skull-1 on November 11, 2014, 03:16:19 PM

Title: SB2C
Post by: Skull-1 on November 11, 2014, 03:16:19 PM
Sonofab-tch Second Class.   Big-Tailed Beast.  'Nuff said.
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: bozon on November 12, 2014, 02:36:30 AM
Pilots hated it and even wanted their rusty SDBs back... It will probably be better in the game than it was in real life though. Lots of these saw action in WWII and this is one plane that should be added (after the Beaufighter of course.. :) ). May not be the highest priority, but a solid request none the less.

+1
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: Mister Fork on November 12, 2014, 09:44:51 AM
Sonofab-tch Second Class.   Big-Tailed Beast.  'Nuff said.
Yep - It has a rough start though...  SDB's pilots hated them compared to their beloved Banshee ... it was a more stable platform to the Helldiver (according to the SDB pilots), had better slow speed handling for landing etc etc etc.. Had to have over 880 mods just to meet the Navy's requirements and it also had to be equipped with a new and more powerful engine with a 4 blade propeller with the R2600 Cyclone engine...  

Bit of a boondoggle aircraft unfortunately as by the time it came into service the F4U and the F6F could carry as much bombs as the Helldiver.  However post war several Allied countries found use for the bird well into the 1950's.  

It's a 300mph cruising speed dive bomber...that's pretty cool...as long as it's the SB2C-4 version. :x

:aok
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: Arlo on November 12, 2014, 09:59:17 AM
+1
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: Skull-1 on November 12, 2014, 12:41:22 PM
Despite its flaws.....as memory serves....it wound up sinking more shipping tonnage than any other airplane the Navy had.

I have always loved it.   Rough start, but became quite potent eventually.    I think it was the last warfighter Curtiss made...
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: lyric1 on November 12, 2014, 12:56:59 PM
Give it the optional gun pods as well. :aok

http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,355356.0.html

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/xheldiver_zps67300b23.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/xheldiver_zps67300b23.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/33-c92031fa35_zps14c552bc.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/33-c92031fa35_zps14c552bc.jpg.html)

(http://i1002.photobucket.com/albums/af142/barneybolac/Dauntless%20SBD/xzhelldiver_2_zpsdce759bf.jpg) (http://s1002.photobucket.com/user/barneybolac/media/Dauntless%20SBD/xzhelldiver_2_zpsdce759bf.jpg.html)

Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: mthrockmor on November 12, 2014, 01:34:26 PM
Years ago I met a crusty WW2 Vet who flew these birds. He also claimed (I want to believe him and have no reason not to) that he hit a Japanese carrier with a 500lb bomb.

He is the one who taught me the 'son of a squeak, second class' moniker.

I agree, it would get great use in-game. Better climb rate, no engine problems and 2x20mms gives it near the same firepower as the Dora. I bet it takes more damage than a Jug, or Hellcat.

boo

 :salute
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: tmetal on November 12, 2014, 02:33:46 PM
would probably be the most survivable dive bomber in game
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: Saxman on November 12, 2014, 08:57:28 PM
Despite its flaws.....as memory serves....it wound up sinking more shipping tonnage than any other airplane the Navy had.

I have always loved it.   Rough start, but became quite potent eventually.    I think it was the last warfighter Curtiss made...

AFAIK, the Dauntless was second only to the submarine in terms of tonnage sunk.
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: Skull-1 on November 13, 2014, 10:12:00 AM
AFAIK, the Dauntless was second only to the submarine in terms of tonnage sunk.

I have read it in more than one place that the SB2C was number one in ship tonnage sunk.   It is an oft stated pat on the back for the airplane that, despite its flaws, it produced results.   I could be wrong...

http://warbirddepot.com/aircraft_attack_sb2c-cafwtw.asp
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: bozon on November 13, 2014, 12:48:53 PM
Why did they even bother with a tail gunner? I mean, look at it - what can he shoot at except his own tail?

(http://warbirddepot.com/dbimages/219/219-d-1280.jpg)

Tail gunners on anything other than a big fat level bombers were nothing more than ballast.
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: Skull-1 on November 13, 2014, 03:34:54 PM
Why did they even bother with a tail gunner? I mean, look at it - what can he shoot at except his own tail?

(http://warbirddepot.com/dbimages/219/219-d-1280.jpg)

Tail gunners on anything other than a big fat level bombers were nothing more than ballast.

Shoot a Zeke with that at dead six.  Poof.


CAF......ditch the tramp stamps.......please.   Geeze.

I like the old scheme it had with the yellow spinner.   The guy who flew it in the war visited Harlingen and sat in the cockpit.   Pretty cool....
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: bozon on November 13, 2014, 05:52:54 PM
Shoot a Zeke with that at dead six.  Poof.
How would he do that? with one barrel shooting around the right side of the tail and the other around the left? and not too low of course because there are also the elevators in the way...
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: Saxman on November 14, 2014, 06:42:21 AM
I have read it in more than one place that the SB2C was number one in ship tonnage sunk.   It is an oft stated pat on the back for the airplane that, despite its flaws, it produced results.   I could be wrong...

http://warbirddepot.com/aircraft_attack_sb2c-cafwtw.asp

I've never seen anywhere that gives an actual tonnage figure for the Helldiver, whereas the Dauntless I see frequent citations of over 500,000 tons sunk.

The closest I come to a hard number for the Helldiver is a combined score of ~175,000 tons spread between VB-15 (SB2C) and VT-15 (TBM) from May - November 1944.
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: Oldman731 on November 14, 2014, 07:19:43 AM
How would he do that? with one barrel shooting around the right side of the tail and the other around the left? and not too low of course because there are also the elevators in the way...


Saburo Sakai would have a good idea, were he alive to ask.

Someone in this thread says that Dauntless gunners were credited with 41.5 kills during the war, Helldiver tailgunners with 17, and TBF gunners with 44.7.  No idea where he got his figures.

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/49399-usn-tailgunner-kills/

- oldman
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: ONTOS on November 14, 2014, 09:47:00 AM
I like it, don't ask me why, I just do.
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: Skull-1 on November 14, 2014, 10:49:55 AM
How would he do that? with one barrel shooting around the right side of the tail and the other around the left? and not too low of course because there are also the elevators in the way...
 

Yep.  Not a perfect system but...as Oldman said, Sakai would have a thing or two to say about tail gunners.
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: Skull-1 on November 14, 2014, 10:50:57 AM
I like it, don't ask me why, I just do.



My thoughts exactly.  For some reason I love this airplane. 
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: Skull-1 on November 14, 2014, 10:53:35 AM
I've never seen anywhere that gives an actual tonnage figure for the Helldiver, whereas the Dauntless I see frequent citations of over 500,000 tons sunk.

The closest I come to a hard number for the Helldiver is a combined score of ~175,000 tons spread between VB-15 (SB2C) and VT-15 (TBM) from May - November 1944.

Yep, but people state it was number one with regularity.   Helldivers sank a lot of ships.   Ozawa sure got a taste of that.    It was all downhill for Japan when the SB2C came online.   Timing is everything and sure helped the HD's cause...
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: ONTOS on November 14, 2014, 03:27:30 PM
Saburo Sakai was actually shot by the tailgunner of a SBD, not a SB2C. This is what I have found by reading different accounts. :salute
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: Oldman731 on November 14, 2014, 03:59:14 PM
Saburo Sakai was actually shot by the tailgunner of a SBD, not a SB2C. This is what I have found by reading different accounts.


True, no SB2Cs in service in August of 1942, nor for quite some time thereafter.  For years people thought he was sneaking up on TBFs, but later research showed it was a Dauntless formation.  He, of course, thought the planes were F4Fs.

- oldman
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 14, 2014, 04:14:50 PM
Saburo Sakai was actually shot by the tailgunner of a SBD, not a SB2C. This is what I have found by reading different accounts. :salute

Like the SB2C, the rear gunner also had to contend with the tail blocking the dead 6 fire lane in a SBD.  Even with that obstruction, the tail gun was still able to engage planes on its six position, as Sakai could attest to.  At least, that's what I gathered from Oldman's post.

ack-ack
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: Zimme83 on November 14, 2014, 04:27:49 PM
Japan never had escorted convoys so sinking merchant ships should have been very easy. So maybe the HD surpassed the SBD (haven't found any evidence for it dough) but nevertheless, it was the SBD that defeated the Japanese Navy and helped the U.S Navy turning the tide.

Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: Ack-Ack on November 14, 2014, 05:31:00 PM
Japan never had escorted convoys so sinking merchant ships should have been very easy. So maybe the HD surpassed the SBD (haven't found any evidence for it dough) but nevertheless, it was the SBD that defeated the Japanese Navy and helped the U.S Navy turning the tide.



The Japanese did escort their convoys when possible.
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: Saxman on November 14, 2014, 09:07:13 PM
Yep, but people state it was number one with regularity.   Helldivers sank a lot of ships.   Ozawa sure got a taste of that.    It was all downhill for Japan when the SB2C came online.   Timing is everything and sure helped the HD's cause...

Yes, but what was their source? LOTS of "common knowledge" gets passed around without anyone actually checking the original source. And notably, the tonnage claim for the Helldiver is NOT mentioned on Wikipedia, and that's the sort of factoid that would almost certainly find its way IF a source was available for it.

You can't forget that in one day at Midway, the Dauntless sank in excess of 120,000 tons. Meanwhile two of the Japanese carriers sunk at Phillippine Sea were recorded by submarines, and the Helldivers at Leyte didn't even manage half of the Midway tonnage against Ozawa's task group (splitting credits with the TBMs, while Chiyoda was ultimately finished by naval gunfire).

And Japanese naval power had already been broken LONG before the Helldiver came online. Philippine Sea and Leyte were essentially the last gasps of the IJN.
Title: Re: SB2C
Post by: Arlo on November 14, 2014, 10:42:00 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing this one modeled before the SB2c for early Pac events:

(http://img.wp.scn.ru/camms/ar/767/pics/3_30.jpg)