Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Technical Support => Topic started by: neodad on November 28, 2014, 07:10:25 PM
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I have been having significant frame rate issues lately. Jumping from 60+ down to the low teens and then back up again. Needless to say it makes the game unplayable. I have killed the usual suspect processes and tried a number of the ideas posted on the form without effect. Here's what I have:
New Dell XPS8700 running Windows 8.1. Intel core i7 @ 3.6 Ghz, 12 gb memory, and a Nvidia GEforce GT720 card.
I connect using wireless to my cable company, charter communications.
In game video settings :
Resolution is 1920x1080 and max texture size is 1024.
Object detail is set to middle
ground object detail is about 1
shadow texture is 1024
Only Display Horizon, Bump Map Terrain, and Bump Map Clouds are checked.
Dxdiag file attached.
Any help / suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
neodad
former CO The Unforgiven
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I would drop the shadow and texture sizes down to 512 and try again. Shadows and texture add a lot of work per frame. Your video card memory is less than a gig, and them borrows from your system ram to increase it 4 gig, but then you losing system ram to do that. You may be just pushing your computer too hard.
The other thing is a wireless connection can add to problems.
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Thank, Fugitive. Tried that and it didn't help. Odd thing though, in the Combat Challenge tonight the frame rate was fluctuating wildly for the first five to ten minutes or so and then stabilized at 59. No idea why.
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Looking at different reviews for the GT720 and it seems there are two versions , a 1gb ddr3 and 2gb gddr5 card . Depending on which one you have, you may have to drop the resolution down from 1920x 1080 to 1280 x 720 and see if it gets any better . you can always jump back up to 1366 x 768 and then to 1600 x 900 depending on what your frame rate does.
This Graphics Card has 2 variants: one paired with 1GB DDR3 and another with 2 GB GDDR5.
This is the DDR3 version.
GeForce GT 720 is a middle-class level Graphics Card still based on the 28nm, Kepler architecture.
GeForce GT 720 offers the energy optimized GK208 Core with a SMX count of 1 and thus comes with 192 Shader Processing Units, 16 TMUs and only 8 ROPs, this on a 64-bit memory of 1GB of standard DDR3. While the central unit runs at 797MHz, the memory clock operates at 900MHz. The rated board TDP is of 19 Watts.
GeForce GT 720's performance is therefore reduced and only on pair with today's most powerful integrated graphics.
This Graphics Card needs to be paired with a decent modern processor and should only be used on a gaming mode below 720p, for optimal performance.
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I wouldn't call the GT720 even a mid-class card, it's the weakest of the 700 series. There's a reason why gamers get something from the upper half of the line. For reference, look here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_700_series#GeForce_700_.287xx.29_series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_700_series#GeForce_700_.287xx.29_series)
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Since you are using a laptop,make sure the power mode is set to performance!
If not the laptop may throttle back by reducing power to conserve your batteries,even when plugged into the wall!
As others have said,try reducing texture size down to 512 and also try reducing the resolution,1920x1080p is likely pushing your card past it's limit.
One other point and then I'll shut up.... check to see how many processes are running in background {task manager} and try to reduce any unneeded processes. You can do this manually or use a program to do it for you,if you're not sure of what is "needed" or not,try checking blackvipers website,just google blackviper to find.
hope this helps.
:salute
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Any OEM computer is going to lose about 35% to 50% of its processing power to the bloated applications running in the background. A laptop loses even more due to the power saving measures employed by the OEM.
Clean up the background nonsense and set Windows to run full performance and never let anything sleep and you will be reqwarded with a much, much better running computer. That said, the 720 is a low end video card. You will probably need to take heed of the others suggestions as well.
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Since you are using a laptop,make sure the power mode is set to performance!
Did I miss something? A google search says Dell XPS 8700 is a desktop computer, which means there's a slight possibility to upgrade both the PSU and the video card.
As for what Skuzzy said, the background nonsense is a very important thing to get rid of. Apart of what morfiend said about www.blackviper.com (http://www.blackviper.com), which is very recommended reading, start with your ControlPanel->Programs and Features and see what you have installed. Basically everything having the name Dell in it doesn't belong to a clean Windows installation, but you might like to save a couple. The restore thing might be worth saving at least until you have created your reinstall copy. If you don't need Java, uninstall it. In Control Panel, look at the Flash and Java settings and disable their automatic update. Also disable automatic updates for your Dell, your printer, any other small program which may seem negligible. Their cumulative effect may be crippling at times! Further, when installing any device choose the custom procedure and choose only the absolutely necessities. Why install any "customer experience survey" if you're not going to contribute, ever? BTW some programs let you modify their installed package through Programs and Features, worth checking! Yet another thing to consider is to remove unnecessary Windows features, tutorial here (scroll down past the Win7 part): http://www.7tutorials.com/how-add-or-remove-unwanted-windows-features-programs-or-apps (http://www.7tutorials.com/how-add-or-remove-unwanted-windows-features-programs-or-apps)
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Did I miss something? A google search says Dell XPS 8700 is a desktop computer, which means there's a slight possibility to upgrade both the PSU and the video card.
After rereading the OP,I think because he mentioned a wireless connection I had assumed it was a lapper,my bad as I know I made an assume of myself.... :rofl
windows still throttles back desktops if you dont set the power setting,atleast since vista it's been my experience. So I woud still set it to performance.
I usually warn people,I know just enough about computers to really mess them up,and usually only offer advice I think will help,maybe I was incorrect with the lapper bit..... I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong..
:salute
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After rereading the OP,I think because he mentioned a wireless connection I had assumed it was a lapper,my bad as I know I made an assume of myself.... :rofl
windows still throttles back desktops if you dont set the power setting,atleast since vista it's been my experience. So I woud still set it to performance.
I usually warn people,I know just enough about computers to really mess them up,and usually only offer advice I think will help,maybe I was incorrect with the lapper bit..... I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong..
:salute
Nothing wrong with what you said ... oem desktops come with the same energy saving setting by default. Plus you made a good point about blkviper .... i always assume people have already cut the bloat down lol....so i skipped right past it haha. I run 28 services on windows 7 with aces running ....but i cut more than most ( no printer ect ect ). I've avoided win8 like a plague on my own stuff , so im not sure how many services people can cut down to....but by the look of customers pc's ive fixed....some have been running 80-90 processes with win8 lol.
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I appreciate all the suggestions.
The XPS is a desktop. It's brand new and replaced an 4 year old version of the same model and that PC did not have any of these issues. It was smaller and slower in all respects, used an on board graphics chip,and connected via wireless and I never had to go through this kind of troubleshooting.
I have disabled / uninstalled pretty much everything that has been suggested and written in the forum and the results are flaky, at least to me. Some examples:
Thursday and Friday the game was unplayable due to the frame rate issues.
Friday night, in combat challenge, the first ten minutes were also unplayable and then it stabilized at 60 fps
Yesterday all was good from signing in
Earlier today all was good
Just now it was terrible, fps fluctuated from 83 to 1.
I have a max of 45 processes running and the CPU load is never more than a few tenths of one percent.
This PC should be more than adequate to run the game at a consistent, reasonable level of performance. I have to be missing something but I don't know what.
Sorry for the frustration coming through.
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I have a max of 45 processes running and the CPU load is never more than a few tenths of one percent.
This PC should be more than adequate to run the game at a consistent, reasonable level of performance. I have to be missing something but I don't know what.
Your processes level is reasonable, I've seen that tripled without the owner noticing anything. Depends on what it's used fro, though. The computer is really good, too, for the most parts. But it's not built for gaming.
As for the frame rates, I'd blame your video card. It's the slowest of the 700 series using DDR3 instead of GDDR5, a much slower (and older) memory type only used in cheaper cards. Actually it's not better than a built-in, and I believe they even make motherboards with a built-in GT720 at least for laptops.
Found some good info about the two memory types and how they affect frame rates: http://www.goldfries.com/computing/gddr3-vs-gddr5-graphic-card-comparison-see-the-difference-with-the-amd-radeon-hd-7750/ (http://www.goldfries.com/computing/gddr3-vs-gddr5-graphic-card-comparison-see-the-difference-with-the-amd-radeon-hd-7750/) . Although it's about Radeons, the memory comparison applies to nVidia.
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Bizman, thanks for the information.
One last question on this topic. Would the graphics card be responsible for the wild fluctuations in the frame rate? I would think a low end card would produce a consistent low frame rate not one that can vary from 1 to the mid-80's, nor a rate that would stabilize after a few minutes of game play.
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Frame rates drift with the graphics load. At any given moment the game may be rendering anywhere from 25,000 triangles, to 175,000 triangles per frame. As the load changes, so can the frame rate. Higher end video card will have far smaller swings in frame rate compared to a low end video card.
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Thanks for the exact explanation, Skuzzy! I have encountered the same problem but couldn't find out the reason why with my previous card. On some maps I got a steady 59 almost everywhere, on another there were places where my fps went down to the teens, going up again in a similar looking landscape.
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I have a 480 GTX laying around that isnt doing me any good if you want it. I dont know what dell is using for Power supplies in you current rig but a decent 550W psu with 35-40 amps on the 12 rail should suffice. The 480 falls between a gtx 760 on the high side and a gtx 660 on the lower side . Here's a site that has benched a GT 720 (837pts) and GTX 480 (4350 pts) on the same list . Take it for what its worth. http://www.videocardbenchmark.net/video_lookup.php?gpu=GeForce+GTX+480
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38ruk, thanks for the offer but I'll pass. Not convinced yet that the card is the real culprit.
In an earlier post I wondered why the frame rate fluctuated so wildly. I should have expanded the post to mention that it went from 83 to 1 and back while sitting in the tower well removed from any activity on the map. That should have been a very low graphics load. Yet in Friday's combat challenge it stabilized at 59 fps in what I would consider a high load situation.
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Start the task manager and select the "Processes" tab. Watch the CPU usage and see if it is spiking, when nothing it running. Might have to watch it a few minutes. It should never go above 1% and only then it should do that very briefly.
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Skuzzy,
The CPU usage is below 1%, probably averaging .5 - .7%
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If the CPU usage is not showing anything unusual, then the frame rate variation is due to the changing loads. Frame rates are going to vary, and can do so wildly. Simply having to load a texture can cause the frame rate to drop in that card.
Just because you are in the tower does not mean there are things not being loaded into the video card.
Aces High preloads everything you *might* see if you change views.
I sent you an email with some suggestions. Have you tried them? Did it make any difference?
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also ... sometimes I have to change the update speed in task manager to high... to catch what might be hitting the cpu .... at normal refresh speed it could look normal but on high it could show the offending process or processes
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Skuzzy,
I did not get the email. Perhaps earthlink blocked it, please try again using charles.willmer@pharma.com.
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Oh, earthlink might be blocking email from us again. I give on them.
Basically, I asked you try turning down the "Maximum Texture Size" to 512. Then uncheck all the advanced options, in the "Graphi Details", except for "Detailed Water" and "Detailed Terrain".
Also make sure you have the "Anti-alias" slider in the "Video Settings" set to 0/none.
See what that does for the performance. If things smooth out, then try adding things back in to see what breaks it.
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Skuzzy,
I applied your suggestions and they had no effect, still jumping from single digits to over 60 fps. The videomem is 4019.0m and used = 7.9m, the CNT parameter is usually at 0 but occasionally will jump to 1. The frame rate issue is happening in the main arenas, FSO, and the Offline Practice area.
If I did replace the video card what would you recommend? The PC has a 460 watt power supply.
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Other than the wattage, it's also important to know how many 12 V rails the power supply has to determine whether it would be suitable for a high end video card. Also notice that your current video card only takes power through the pci-e slot whilst more powerful cards may have even double six- or eight-line power connectors, or a combination of them. If your power supply doesn't have a at least one dedicated 6+2 video power connector, you'll have to buy a power supply, too. Something like a GeForce GTX 760 or 770 should serve you good for several years, in the price ranges of $200 and $300. A good PSU usually costs something around $100, making this quality example quite tempting: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151119 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151119)
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Skuzzy,
I applied your suggestions and they had no effect, still jumping from single digits to over 60 fps. The videomem is 4019.0m and used = 7.9m, the CNT parameter is usually at 0 but occasionally will jump to 1. The frame rate issue is happening in the main arenas, FSO, and the Offline Practice area.
If I did replace the video card what would you recommend? The PC has a 460 watt power supply.
If you ever see the CNT change from zero, it means the video card is having a hard time keeping up with the loading of data for any given frame.
The "Video Memory" is not going to be accurate for any Windows OS, passed XP as Microsoft decided to stop supporting that particular function.
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Looking at what I think is your PSU spec, it looks like it has 42 amps on the 12+ rail . You might want to verify that by pulling the side off and checking the sticker on it . You could prolly pull off running a 760 gtx on that PSU . Nvidia calls for a 500W psu but your prolly close enough as is to at least try it out before spending the money on a new PSU. Also .... make sure you research what PSU will fit into the dell before buying one .... I've seen in passing people having issues with certain one fitting.
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I have been working with the technical support folks at Dell for the past few days. They have not been any help at all and after the first call have not been really interested in pursuing the matter. What a joke.
Tonight I removed the GT720 and started using the on-board graphics chip. Aces High tells me it's an Intel HD Graphics 4600. Videomem is 1792. The frame rate is now stable at 60 - in tower, in MA, in a custom arena, in a furball. I then set the Max texture Size back to 1024, checked bump map terrain and bump map clouds to go along with detailed water and detailed terrain. And the frame rate is still stable at 60.
You gentlemen were correct from the gitgo. My skepticism was unfounded. That GT720 card is crap.
I've gone back to Dell looking for some concessions.
Thanks to all for the help, advice, and patience.
<S>
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Nice to hear of your improved playability.
Just so you'd know, Intel video chips don't quite mix with AH. Although your frame rate now seems good, you may notice some anomalies. Althoug Skuzzy has explained it several times, I can't remember the exact problems. Simply put the Intel chips handle certain code commands differently than AMD and nVidia.
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Well guys, I'm back.
The on board chip started to have the same problem - wildly fluctuating frame rate, but not all the time. So I bought a GTX 750 Ti card with 2GB of DDR5 memory. And guess what, the frame rate is still all over the place. But not all the time ....
Sometimes after a few minutes it will stabilize in the low 60's. Other times, like tonight it won't.
All of my in game settings have been reduced or turned off.
- Video resolution is 1920x1080 (I have reduced it without effect)
- MaxTexture Size is 512
- Anti-Aliasing is None
- Graphic Detail
- Object Detail is set in the middle
- Ground detail is set in the middle
- Display Horizon is checked
- All other not checked
Advanced
- All boxes are NOT checked
- Shadow texture is 512
I use Ventrilo for in game squad communication
CPU utilization is <1%
All the usual suspect processes have been turned off / disabled.
I have run out of ideas.
Any help would be appreciated.
Skuzzy, feel free to drop me an email at neodad53@gmail.com since earthlink keeps blocking you emails.
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What you are describing now sounds like the CPU being taken away from running the game, or you are on a wireless connection and it is getting a higher than normal bit error rate.
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Although your processes count is as low as 45 or so, you might want let us see what you have running. Simply copy and paste the following line in your Search Box, Run Box or cmd, whichever you like and you should get a text file named "process" on your Desktop.
wmic /output:%userprofile%\desktop\process.txt process get description,executablepath
Other than that, I recently noticed my frame rate going to single digits on the Italy map we were practicing on for the oncoming scenario. Usually my FPS is a solid 59. There seems to be spots which are heavy loaded with stuff while other similar looking places don't produce any issues.
Skuzzy, is it possible that several terrain tiles or other elements could exist one over another, all being calculated but only one being visible? That's how it felt like when strafing Italy A 50, no flames, no furball, no planes near. Actually I could reproduce it a minute ago, A50 being a friendly field with no action at all! The lowest count was 4, the highest 60.
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My work box. The SQL stuff is related to SourceSafe and Vegas Pro.
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System Idle Process
System
smss.exe
csrss.exe
csrss.exe
wininit.exe
winlogon.exe
services.exe
lsass.exe
lsm.exe
svchost.exe
svchost.exe
svchost.exe
svchost.exe
svchost.exe
svchost.exe
svchost.exe
svchost.exe
spoolsv.exe
svchost.exe
svchost.exe
sqlservr.exe
sqlbrowser.exe
sqlwriter.exe
svchost.exe
taskhost.exe C:\Windows\system32\taskhost.exe
dwm.exe C:\Windows\system32\Dwm.exe
explorer.exe C:\Windows\Explorer.EXE
RAVCpl64.exe C:\Program Files\Realtek\Audio\HDA\RAVCpl64.exe
svchost.exe
dllhost.exe
msdtc.exe
WmiPrvSE.exe
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Custom objects on terrains are very CPU intensive, right now.
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Thanks for sharing your list, Skuzzy! Mine looks the same without the sql stuff but with the addition of two Avast lines. I find this very supportive. :salute
Also thanks for the explanation of custom objects being the culprit. Must be some bumps and humps hidden under the radar tower causing those single digits!
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Skuzzy,
I am using a wireless connection. How would I check the bit error rate?
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Ahhhhh. It depends on your connection. Some provide utilities for checking those things. Most do not, as they do not want you to know about it.
Two things you need to know about wireless connections.
1) They are prone to bit errors. You cannot stop it. It is the nature of the beast. When a bit error occurs, the TCP protocol will retry the packet until it comes through clean or timeouts (really long time). In a real time game this is going to manifest as pauses and/or warping as location packets for objects are not coming in at regular intervals.
2) Wireless connections are half-duplex! In a wired connection, you can have packets coming and going at the same time (full duplex). Wireless only allows one packet between points (your computer and the router) at a time. It can be coming, or going, but not both. This introduces potential for collisions which is an error condition causing a retry.
In both cases, any error on a UDP packet will cause that packet to be lost. We use UDP for voice comms, for example. It is a low overhead stateless protocol. A send and forget type of thing. But on wireless, it is problematic.
If the wireless connection is suspect, if you can directly connect to the router (I am assuming your wireless is local and not your actual Internet connection), this will verify the wireless is the problem, or not.