Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: jolly22 on December 23, 2014, 08:52:50 PM
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The most honest words I've heard in a long time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs
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:aok good post. Thanks
LtngRydr
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love the show; it's in it's 3rd and final season.
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Sorkin.
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Its a crap TV show :old:
Grow up
Read a book :old:
If you dont like the US leave :old:
I am not even a colonial :rofl
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Wife showed me this the other day......love Jeff Daniels
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....love Jeff Daniels
cant drink a fat girl thin! :noid
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If you don't like the US leave :old:
+1 :aok
I am not even a colonial :rofl
neither am I. my great-great-great grandparents didn't jump off the garlic boat until 1905. in Louisiana btw
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(http://www.3quarksdaily.com/.a/6a00d8341c562c53ef01a73d74d157970d-800wi)
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Zack for president!
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The most honest words I've heard in a long time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMqcLUqYqrs
i enjoyed that video. i wish someone in real life had the #$% to say it like it is.
thanks man!
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The Newsroom looks to be a REALLY good show..
I love politics, so it appeals to me. :D
Youtube has some GREAT segments on the newsroom. On Gun control, Islam extremist, abortion, gays.
VERY interesting. :)
:salute
JRjolly
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If you dont like the US leave :old:
Okay, We'll all come over there. How does that sound? :aok
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Okay, We'll all come over there. How does that sound? :aok
you might as well everyone else is :rofl
make sure your p*ss poor though or they wont let you in :rofl
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I'm a canadian driver that spends most of my time stateside. And you know...you can realy tell the difference between the two countries. People down there ask me what Canada's like...and the best answer I can give them is, "well, it's home".
The relationship between our two countries is like a couple of competing siblings. I guess most people reading this are going to say that their country is the best, for the same reason....it's home.
God forbid one should address any problem that a country has in a completely objective manner; because that will grossly offend someone. People are too busy worrying about that to get right down to the root cause.
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I'm a canadian driver that spends most of my time stateside. And you know...you can realy tell the difference between the two countries. People down there ask me what Canada's like...and the best answer I can give them is, "well, it's home".
The relationship between our two countries is like a couple of competing siblings. I guess most people reading this are going to say that their country is the best, for the same reason....it's home.
God forbid one should address any problem that a country has in a completely objective manner; because that will grossly offend someone. People are too busy worrying about that to get right down to the root cause.
most of your time stateside huh............. :huh
j/k what areas of the country you running? mebbe we could meet up one day. :salute :cheers:
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Okay, We'll all come over there. How does that sound? :aok
Why would anyone want to go to the UK? Good people, I grant that.
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I would like to see Germany. it looks like a beautiful country.
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I would like to see Germany. it looks like a beautiful country.
Only from outside :old:
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hope not cuz it looks from pics to be some excellent landscape. city boy tho I am, that's just where I live. out in the country, that's where I'm alive. :cheers:
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So who is the greatest?
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So who is the greatest?
1. Russia
2. Canada
3. USA
4. China
5. Brasil
yw :P
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There it is.
The pressure is off.
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Only from outside :old:
I really liked my visit to Bavaria. :aok
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I really liked my visit to Bavaria. :aok
Bavaria... :uhoh
I lived the for some time, was glad when finally got back to Germany :devil
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Why would anyone want to go to the UK? Good people, I grant that.
The awesome history and traditions of that sceptered isle. :aok
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Bavaria... :uhoh
I lived the for some time, was glad when finally got back to Germany :devil
Heh!
When I visited Bavaria, it was on a business trip. I told one of the people, "I've never visited Germany before." He said, "You still haven't. Bavaria is to Germany what Texas is to the US." I liked it very much! ;)
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On my visit to London, I got to meet Wurz and SF3. They were awesome, and I loved the visit. I got to see the RAF Museum, Westminster Abbey (jawdroppingly amazing), the British Museum (ditto), the Tower of London, etc. Got to eat some great curries, some great fish and chips, some great English breakfast! :aok
http://electraforge.com/brooke/misc/RAFMuseum/raf_museum.html
<S> to the Wurz (although he lives in the US now), SF3, and the UK!
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I'm a canadian driver that spends most of my time stateside. And you know...you can realy tell the difference between the two countries. People down there ask me what Canada's like...and the best answer I can give them is, "well, it's home".
The relationship between our two countries is like a couple of competing siblings. I guess most people reading this are going to say that their country is the best, for the same reason....it's home.
God forbid one should address any problem that a country has in a completely objective manner; because that will grossly offend someone. People are too busy worrying about that to get right down to the root cause.
Exactly :aok
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Its a outrage! I am Canadian! For this reason alone the answer is obvious! :old: :D
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Canadians are good people. But you'd think with all that European heritage, they could produce a decent beer, or at least know how to play hockey worth a damn
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As for the topic, I do think that the US is the greatest country in the world. :aok
Is it perfect? Of course not. Could it be better still? Of course. Is it improving at this moment? Unfortunately, no -- thanks to [can't talk about it in this forum]. Does it matter what you are measuring? Of course. You can pick a lot of stats where the US is not best. But you can also pick a lot of important ones where it is, and if you consider averages of important stats, it can be lower than #1 in many things and yet still best in the aggregate. Is it good to do a lot of chest thumping? No. But it also isn't good to swallow a bunch of slanted swill as equivalent to the full measure of truth.
Here's a speech about America that I think is a lot better than one from a TV show with an agenda:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfuOOwJxsdU
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The Newsroom looks to be a REALLY good show..
I love politics, so it appeals to me. :D
Youtube has some GREAT segments on the newsroom. On Gun control, Islam extremist, abortion, gays.
VERY interesting. :)
:salute
JRjolly
I found the gun control episode to be somewhat biased.
I like the show.
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Why would anyone want to go to the UK? Good people, I grant that.
Pies!
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Its a outrage! I am Canadian! For this reason alone the answer is obvious! :old: :D
its open season for beavers are you prepared?
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The USA and Canada share the longest undefended border in the world. Say what you wish about either of our countries, but our nations must be doing something right!
Is the United States the GREATEST country in the world? I think not. And I think the world will agree with me. But, I do think The United States of America, in our short 239 years as a Nation, has offered the world a crucible of freedom, not a perfect one, but a crucible out of which many other nations have taken sips of freedom and moved on to develop their own ideals of freedom and formed their own nations. The United States is a young country in the world's history, and it has, and will continue to make mistakes as it grows.
My question is...will the United States use the wisdom it's founding fathers gave it to overcome internal strife and not succumb to international criticism, or will it fold upon itself trying to appease international criticism. President George Washington once said something along the lines of..."do not become entangled in foreign affairs..."
Perhaps The United States should revisit those words...
Personally I don't think anyone, or any country in the world wants to take on all of the challenges The United States does today, internally, or internationally. I'm proud to be an American! We're not a perfect peoples, we are a united peoples and we keep striving to be a better peoples. Is the United States the greatest country in the world? No...we have much to learn, but we are certainly not the worst country in the world... but should you threaten our freedom as a peoples, or the freedom of other peoples in the world...well, we just get a bit riled and that gets a bit tangled up with the George Washington statement!
I think most folks around the world don't think as we Americans do...when we think of our country. We think not of a single country, but rather, of a country of 50 states, all of which must agree when voiced as a single country. Potentially each state within the United States has the ability to break off from the rest and form it's own country...our's is indeed, a strong union.
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To be more specific, here's why I think the segment is crap.
The whole thing is set up to make the watcher believe that Jeff Daniels' character is the fount of wisdom (from the questioner being portrayed as an idiot from the start, to the smarmy post-card woman in the back prodding him to do the right thing, to his rattling off of stats).
Let's go through the list.
Is America is the only country that has freedom? No. However, freedom isn't a binary quantity, and in reasonable measurements and definitions of it, America will be in the top handful out of the nearly 200 countries in the world, with exact position depending on how you weight the components of your freedom measurement (i.e., religious freedom, amount of regulation of personal behavior and drug use, freedom to bear arms, amount of regulation on starting a business, amount of regulation in building codes, tax rates, etc.). It is a country founded upon freedom (among a few other important concepts), and that is a core element of its Constitution.
America is 7th in literacy. No. According to the CIA world fact book, the US has 99% literacy, but there are about 28 other countries that report greater than 99% literacy. Most of them are small, but there is Russia, Poland, Ukraine, etc. that are not tiny. Some countries reporting greater than 99% literacy that might surprise some people: North Korea, Greenland, Cuba, Barbados, Samoa, Tajikistan, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Uzbekistan. Literacy is good, but is 99% vs. 99.2% or even vs. 100% a major determinant of country greatness? I think that looking at distinctions in 1% is not meaningful there.
America is 27th in math. Sort of. According to 2012 Program for International Student Assessment, assessing teenagers in OECD countries (not all countries), the US is 36th. The top countries by a wide margin are China, Singapore, and Korea. America is 22nd in science. Yes. According to 2012 Program for International Student Assessment, assessing teenagers in OECD countries (not all countries), the US is 28th. The top countries by a significant margin are China and Singapore. Is math and science of teenagers the measure of national greatness? As one who has a BS in engineering and an MS and Ph.D. in science, my opinion is: certainly not. Almost no one uses anything beyond trivial math and science in their daily lives or professions. I work in a technology field, and even I hardly use much math, and the science I use is very narrow. I do think it's good to know some math and science, but there is a multitude of skills that are more important (interpersonal skills, negotiation, persuasion/motivating, knowledge of finance, knowledge of policy-level economics, etc.). The math/science metric is meant to show quality of American education through high school. But if you want to talk about science and math where it is really used, you are in the realm of needing university education, and there America leads the world by a wide margin. See, for example, The Times World University Rankings, where the US has 27 of the top 50 universities (20 of the top 30); 21 out of the top 50 universities in engineering and technology; 25 out of the top 50 universities in physical sciences.
49th in life expectancy. Sort of, but irrelevant. From WHO 2012, the US is 35th. In a country like the US, life expectancy is no longer very dependent upon level of healthcare or technology and greatly more dependent on genetics (independent of national qualities), what people prefer to eat (their own preferences), and how much they like to exercise (their own preferences). So this statistic is completely useless as a measure of country "greatness".
178th in infant mortality. No. By CIA World Factbook, US is 47th (near Canada and New Zealand). However, some countries report their infant mortality much differently. US counts a birth as a birth. Many other countries don't count it in the stats if the child is below a certain gestational age or is not over a certain size or weight. This criticism does have merit, but it is a problem more with culture and education than healthcare.
3rd in median household income. Sort of. But median household income isn't what matters. What matters is what you can buy with your income. So, if you live in a country where you make $100,000 per year, but eggs cost $100,000 each, you aren't doing so well. Also, if you earn $100,000 per year, but your taxes are $99,000 per year, you aren't doing so well. Better is to measure PPP (purchasing power parity) and make it after tax. The OECD does this for OECD countries. In that ranking, the US is #1 in household income ($39.5k for the US vs. $30.7k for Switzerland, which is #2), #1 in household wealth ($133k for the US vs. $101k for Switzerland, which is #2).
#4 in labor force. Does he mean unemployment or labor-force participation rate? These are very messy stats. Different countries have different ways of measuring. Also, this is going to be highly skewed by how hard each country was hit by the 2008 crash, and some countries (just speaking hypothetically here) could have been highly impacted by a most-recent administration that does highly inept things if the goal were to generate stronger recovery (France and . . . maybe some others that I can't name here). So, depending on which year you pick and how you measure, sure, the US could be #4 or #15. This is one area where the US is *not* doing anywhere near as good a job as it could, and to criticize our unemployment rate or labor-participation rate is, I think, appropriate.
#4 in exports. According to CIA World Factbook, We are #2 behind China (which if we weren't buying all of their stuff wouldn't be #1 in exports).
#1 in number of incarcerated citizens per capita. Yes, but over half is for drug offenses (55%). So, whether this is good or horrible depends to a significant extent on whether or not you think drugs should be legal.
#1 in number of adults who think angels are real. This is a crap statement. This is one that should be per capita (in which case the US is likely far from #1); and the smug snarkiness should at least be expanded to number of people who aren't atheists (in which case the US might not be #1 either). And if you expand it to people believing in superstition or anything non-scientific (which would include most leftists, even though they don't think so), the US might no longer be at the top.
#1 in defense spending. OK, but only a dolt would negatively correlate defense spending with "greatness" of a nation.
What does he leave out? Which country creates the most inventions -- by an enormous amount? Which country creates the most technology? Which has the most valuable companies? Which has the most freedom of religion? Which has freedom to bear arms? Which has freedom to educate your own child? Which has the most universities? Which donates the most money to other countries? Which has the highest amount of charitable donations as percent of GDP? Which has the greatest natural resources including farming? Which has the largest stock market? Which has the largest bond market? Which has the most-used currency? Which country has the most Nobel Prizes? Which country generates the most scientific papers? Which country generates the most software? Which country has the most artists? Which country creates the most movies, TV shows, books, plays, and music? Which country generates the most health-care advances? Which country is the top pick for entrepreneurs building the next big thing? Which country has the most socioeconomic and class mobility?
I don't point out such things unless someone is misrepresenting the US. To say it otherwise is obnoxious, and causes people to have a negative opinion. But if some dolt is spewing a highly slanted portrayal, there should be some counterpoints.
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its open season for beavers are you prepared?
Beaver can be very cunning one must be prepared to deal with it! :old:
Canadians are good people. But you'd think with all that European heritage, they could produce a decent beer, or at least know how to play hockey worth a damn
I ferment Giant Moose urine into a crude alcoholic beverage! I will send you a bottle! :cheers:
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To be more specific, here's why I think the segment is crap.
The whole thing is set up to make the watcher believe that Jeff Daniels' character is the fount of wisdom (from the questioner being portrayed as an idiot from the start, to the smarmy post-card woman in the back prodding him to do the right thing, to his rattling off of stats).
Let's go through the list.
Is America is the only country that has freedom? No. However, freedom isn't a binary quantity, and in reasonable measurements and definitions of it, America will be in the top handful out of the nearly 200 countries in the world, with exact position depending on how you weight the components of your freedom measurement (i.e., religious freedom, amount of regulation of personal behavior and drug use, freedom to bear arms, amount of regulation on starting a business, amount of regulation in building codes, tax rates, etc.). It is a country founded upon freedom (among a few other important concepts), and that is a core element of its Constitution.
America is 7th in literacy. No. According to the CIA world fact book, the US has 99% literacy, but there are about 28 other countries that report greater than 99% literacy. Most of them are small, but there is Russia, Poland, Ukraine, etc. that are not tiny. Some countries reporting greater than 99% literacy that might surprise some people: North Korea, Greenland, Cuba, Barbados, Samoa, Tajikistan, Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Uzbekistan. Literacy is good, but is 99% vs. 99.2% or even vs. 100% a major determinant of country greatness? I think that looking at distinctions in 1% is not meaningful there.
America is 27th in math. Sort of. According to 2012 Program for International Student Assessment, assessing teenagers in OECD countries (not all countries), the US is 36th. The top countries by a wide margin are China, Singapore, and Korea. America is 22nd in science. Yes. According to 2012 Program for International Student Assessment, assessing teenagers in OECD countries (not all countries), the US is 28th. The top countries by a significant margin are China and Singapore. Is math and science of teenagers the measure of national greatness? As one who has a BS in engineering and an MS and Ph.D. in science, my opinion is: certainly not. Almost no one uses anything beyond trivial math and science in their daily lives or professions. I work in a technology field, and even I hardly use much math, and the science I use is very narrow. I do think it's good to know some math and science, but there is a multitude of skills that are more important (interpersonal skills, negotiation, persuasion/motivating, knowledge of finance, knowledge of policy-level economics, etc.). The math/science metric is meant to show quality of American education through high school. But if you want to talk about science and math where it is really used, you are in the realm of needing university education, and there America leads the world by a wide margin. See, for example, The Times World University Rankings, where the US has 27 of the top 50 universities (20 of the top 30); 21 out of the top 50 universities in engineering and technology; 25 out of the top 50 universities in physical sciences.
49th in life expectancy. Sort of, but irrelevant. From WHO 2012, the US is 35th. In a country like the US, life expectancy is no longer very dependent upon level of healthcare or technology and greatly more dependent on genetics (independent of national qualities), what people prefer to eat (their own preferences), and how much they like to exercise (their own preferences). So this statistic is completely useless as a measure of country "greatness".
178th in infant mortality. No. By CIA World Factbook, US is 47th (near Canada and New Zealand). However, some countries report their infant mortality much differently. US counts a birth as a birth. Many other countries don't count it in the stats if the child is below a certain gestational age or is not over a certain size or weight. This criticism does have merit, but it is a problem more with culture and education than healthcare.
3rd in median household income. Sort of. But median household income isn't what matters. What matters is what you can buy with your income. So, if you live in a country where you make $100,000 per year, but eggs cost $100,000 each, you aren't doing so well. Also, if you earn $100,000 per year, but your taxes are $99,000 per year, you aren't doing so well. Better is to measure PPP (purchasing power parity) and make it after tax. The OECD does this for OECD countries. In that ranking, the US is #1 in household income ($39.5k for the US vs. $30.7k for Switzerland, which is #2), #1 in household wealth ($133k for the US vs. $101k for Switzerland, which is #2).
#4 in labor force. Does he mean unemployment or labor-force participation rate? These are very messy stats. Different countries have different ways of measuring. Also, this is going to be highly skewed by how hard each country was hit by the 2008 crash, and some countries (just speaking hypothetically here) could have been highly impacted by a most-recent administration that does highly inept things if the goal were to generate stronger recovery (France and . . . maybe some others that I can't name here). So, depending on which year you pick and how you measure, sure, the US could be #4 or #15. This is one area where the US is *not* doing anywhere near as good a job as it could, and to criticize our unemployment rate or labor-participation rate is, I think, appropriate.
#4 in exports. According to CIA World Factbook, We are #2 behind China (which if we weren't buying all of their stuff wouldn't be #1 in exports).
#1 in number of incarcerated citizens per capita. Yes, but over half is for drug offenses (55%). So, whether this is good or horrible depends to a significant extent on whether or not you think drugs should be legal.
#1 in number of adults who think angels are real. This is a crap statement. This is one that should be per capita (in which case the US is likely far from #1); and the smug snarkiness should at least be expanded to number of people who aren't atheists (in which case the US might not be #1 either). And if you expand it to people believing in superstition or anything non-scientific (which would include most leftists, even though they don't think so), the US might no longer be at the top.
#1 in defense spending. OK, but only a dolt would negatively correlate defense spending with "greatness" of a nation.
What does he leave out? Which country creates the most inventions -- by an enormous amount? Which country creates the most technology? Which has the most valuable companies? Which has the most freedom of religion? Which has freedom to bear arms? Which has freedom to educate your own child? Which has the most universities? Which donates the most money to other countries? Which has the highest amount of charitable donations as percent of GDP? Which has the greatest natural resources including farming? Which has the largest stock market? Which has the largest bond market? Which has the most-used currency? Which country has the most Nobel Prizes? Which country generates the most scientific papers? Which country generates the most software? Which country has the most artists? Which country creates the most movies, TV shows, books, plays, and music? Which country generates the most health-care advances? Which country is the top pick for entrepreneurs building the next big thing? Which country has the most socioeconomic and class mobility?
I don't point out such things unless someone is misrepresenting the US. To say it otherwise is obnoxious, and causes people to have a negative opinion. But if some dolt is spewing a highly slanted portrayal, there should be some counterpoints.
Thanks, Brooke, for expanding the thoughts I posted above. The difference in our posts I think is a difference in education, but I think our root feelings are the same, and that's what makes The United States the country that it is.
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I fell a sleep reading Brookes thread :old:
There no mention of pies and beaver :old:
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Bavaria... :uhoh
I lived the for some time, was glad when finally got back to Germany :devil
A Prussian aye? That explains a few things :)
Beaver can be very cunning one must be prepared to deal with it! :old:
I ferment Giant Moose urine into a crude alcoholic beverage! I will send you a bottle! :cheers:
Can I have some of that? I heard great things about Canadian Moose juice.
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I fell a sleep reading Brookes thread :old:
There no mention of pies and beaver :old:
Brook it quit the bore.
Obviously this topic has been Hijacked! Nuff said! :old:
Can I have some of that? I heard great things about Canadian Moose juice.
Huzzah Bozon! Two bottles on the way. They will be packaged in a "wooden crate" ! :aok :D
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A Prussian aye? That explains a few things :)
:lol
Actually, if you are going by the cliché, I'm almost as un-prussian as you can get. ;)
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I've always thought the USA was the greatest country in the world. I could not find the country of America on the map. :headscratch:
My ancestry has come from many countries and I thank all of them for their part in making "Americans". :salute
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The show is important because Sorkin et al depict where we have come to lack while inspiring us to amend.
Some of the best TV I've seen. I'm re-watching all the episodes.
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:lol
Actually, if you are going by the cliché, I'm almost as un-prussian as you can get. ;)
I've spent a couple of years in Bayern and they educated me that everyone out of Bayern are damn Prussians... :)
The irony was that most of the people I knew there were not original Bavarians and quite a few of those were not even Germans.
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I fell a sleep reading Brookes thread :old:
:aok
There no mention of pies and beaver :old:
There are places in the US with fine pies. I have had many at my local British pub (the Three Lions) and said "To Zack!" prior to the first bite. :aok
Beaver . . . hmm. Well, we do have them near where I work.
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As for the topic, I do think that the US is the greatest country in the world. :aok
Is it perfect? Of course not. Could it be better still? Of course. Is it improving at this moment? Unfortunately, no -- thanks to [can't talk about it in this forum]. Does it matter what you are measuring? Of course. You can pick a lot of stats where the US is not best. But you can also pick a lot of important ones where it is, and if you consider averages of important stats, it can be lower than #1 in many things and yet still best in the aggregate. Is it good to do a lot of chest thumping? No. But it also isn't good to swallow a bunch of slanted swill as equivalent to the full measure of truth.
Here's a speech about America that I think is a lot better than one from a TV show with an agenda:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfuOOwJxsdU
I agree :old:
But its Bono who is a complete T££"!
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I agree :old:
But its Bono who is a complete T££"!
For the most part I agree on both of these, except for 1) it not imprpving now because it is and 2) the continued misunderstanding of those who think it isn't and why.
Barring that, well said Brooke.
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the continued misunderstanding of those who think it isn't and why.
Things aren't in decline in every category (technology continues to increase dramatically, for example) and some groups seem to have better influence and stature even over recent history (women, for example). But I see a lot of things going in the wrong direction ([can't talk about it here]; amount of regulation; country and world financial condition; job market; decline of the culture of work, marriage, family, freedom of speech, and free enterprise; Iran so far being allowed to get nuclear weapons; a completely bungled handling of Middle East policies, rise of ISIS, etc.; collapse of border security; dangerous erosion of rule of law, impartiality of government agencies, and adherence to the Constitution; bias of the press; opposition to freedom of the press).
I would be genuinely interested to hear reasons why that is misunderstanding on my part, though. I love to discuss and to hear other points of view.
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Canadians are good people. But you'd think with all that European heritage, they could produce a decent beer
Kokanee is pretty good! :aok
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Lewis Black's take on it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mCDZMWVWuc