Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Wishlist => Topic started by: caldera on December 28, 2014, 10:04:20 AM
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Yes, this is a whiny wish thread and no, I haven't been shot down by an 88 for as far back as I can remember (if ever).
The problem is that instead of upping a plane to tackle a single crappy fighter - that's far away from the field and loitering at low alt (obviously looking for a fight and in no position to even attempt a vulch, that is if someone would actually take off), people plink away at you with 88s. :bhead
I can see the need for 37mm ack at the field and wish there was much more of it, but pointy-clicky "combat" from 5 or 6k away just makes me bail out. WTG 88s and thanks for the exciting fight!
Please 86 the 88s.
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+1 a griefing tool at best.
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I like 'em. I can't hit air with them. However, some guys are really good.
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They are annoying, I don't think HT would ever get rid of them, and there really is no way to stop people from using them.
Except perks. :noid
But I think that's a bad idea.
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Couldn't help but laugh at this one. :D
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88's belong on tanks. I know the 88 AA was first, but they used batteries of them not one or two on a field. I guess people don't have to use them if they don't want to. They traverse so slowly and getting the range set is ,is ,is ,is frustrating.
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When the reds are vulching the runway, the 88's can push them back enough to get a plane off.
Saw a guy blow up a full set of B17s with one shell. Just plain cool. I have killed a few planes with 88s. Very satisfying when they are vuching.
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Matter of fact, we need more guns like the 88s. Heck, through in a few barrage balloons.
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88s on AFs were made mainly against bombers.
if those puppies, in capable hands, manage to down enemy planes incoming in their range, then its fine, as that's their job ! :aok
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88s on AFs were made mainly against bombers.
if those puppies, in capable hands, manage to down enemy planes incoming in their range, then its fine, as that's their job ! :aok
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Well I understand where he is coming from. It is annoying when you want to dogfight and you have a few who hop in the 88s. Yet, it is also annoying when you want to fight and can't take off due to vulchers.
I'd say most 88 gunners accurate range or "lethal ring" is 3k. Mine is a bit further (not telling) :devil .
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You can be lethal out to 7k against bombers by setting up a track ball or thumb ball mouse in Mode 2. Then adjust the sensitivity so your thumb can keep the black ghost ring moving just faster or with the aiming white ring. Make the left mouse button the fire button. Now it's a matter of the fuse timer and your ability to judge by the tracer and adjust to the miss of the puff ball while you hold down on the mouse button. Once you get it in the sweet spot.....the pilot thinks all 88 on the field have opened up on him.
And yes I do this to fighters who fly straight for too long.
Figure about 900yd\s for the round. So you fudge about 1sec per 1000yd in your timing.
And to the OP, the players who won't up to furball but, use an 88. Won't up to furball if the 88 were not there. In the past they sat there waiting in a wirbel or a 37mm.
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...or you could attack and destroy them :aok
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...or you could attack and destroy them :aok
De-acking may seem like a fight to you, but I'm not interested.
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When the reds are vulching the runway, the 88's can push them back enough to get a plane off.
Saw a guy blow up a full set of B17s with one shell. Just plain cool. I have killed a few planes with 88s. Very satisfying when they are vuching.
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Matter of fact, we need more guns like the 88s. Heck, through in a few barrage balloons.
This. Thats what I use em for. To shoo the enemy far enough away so I can take off.
Although I have the solution to 88s shooting at me.
I kill em.
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+1 to perk them.
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I'm all in favor of removing them. In a game that is intended to promote combat between players, I provides a place for people to hide and kill others as a no risk weapon. You are even credited with kills when the gun you are in is destroyed. People are always talking about how hard it is to find a fight, but why should people bother taking a risk when they can make you waste the last 15 minutes of your life by hopping in a manned gun and killing you without taking any sort of risk on their part. If you want to push back a horde of fighters then take off from the next base back and come in on top of them. Two 88s are not an effective base defense weapon against a horde in any case. At best they are only good for griefing people who are attacking a base in small numbers that could easily be beaten if even a single plane was present.
+1 for their removal.
If a perk cost is going to be set on them, make it 25 GV perks.
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They'll take my 88 when they pry it from my cold dead hands :)
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<S> Hetzer
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The solution is already included in Aces High 2. If I am going to be near them, then I destroy them. With that said, I do agree with you Caldera. Manned guns should be a last choice for combat between players, not the first. Unfortunately this cannot be coded.
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+1
Not a fan of the 88mm field guns.
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In a game that is intended to promote combat between players, I provides a place for people to hide and kill others as a no risk weapon....If you want to push back a horde of fighters then take off from the next base back and come in on top of them.
...well...if this is a game intended to promote combat, then there's no need for a horde of fighters to be that close to your base, is there?
I have trouble feeling bad for vulchers who get picked off by anyone, whether on the ground or in the air. If 88s help keep the vulchers away, I'm all for them.
- oldman
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Manned guns should be a last choice for combat between players, not the first.
Exactly!
Let manned gun folks play Manned Guns Low if it is that important to them. :bolt:
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Famous Generic Conversation for any Squad in the history of Aces High.
Dipstuck: Hey CO, aren't we just as bad picking and vulching these guys as we say they are?
CO: NO!! It's OK because we are doing it to them!!!!!!!
Dipstuck: Does that mean their ack is bad, and what about our ack?
CO: NO!! It's OK because it's our ack!!!!!!
Dipstuck: Does that mean you were serious when you wishlisted HiTech remove ack from fields?
CO: YES!! But, only their fields!!!!!!!!!!
Dipstuck: Do we get a choice when the map changes to stay on our fields??
CO: Don't be silly, HiTech will know which ones are our fields.
CO: Now dive in there and de-ack so I can vulch.
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Famous Generic Conversation for any Squad in the history of Aces High.
Dipstuck: Hey CO, aren't we just as bad picking and vulching these guys as we say they are?
CO: NO!! It's OK because we are doing it to them!!!!!!!
Dipstuck: Does that mean their ack is bad, and what about our ack?
CO: NO!! It's OK because it's our ack!!!!!!
Dipstuck: Does that mean you were serious when you wishlisted HiTech remove ack from fields?
CO: YES!! But, only their fields!!!!!!!!!!
Dipstuck: Do we get a choice when the map changes to stay on our fields??
CO: Don't be silly, HiTech will know which ones are our fields.
CO: Now dive in there and de-ack so I can vulch.
Not sure what kind of dysfunctional squad you have to fly for to hear this, but I have never heard anything remotely close to that from either of the squads that I've been in.
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To the OP: So if the 88's don't encourage "fighting" and need to be removed, then shouldn't all GVs be removed as well? After all, I can't take off in my T34 and engage your plane, right? And what about all those trees.. I can't take off in a tree and engage you either, so lets get rid of them too. And all of the buildings.. can't fly those either. And the mountains.. they just get in the way of aircraft battles. And the textures of the planes, because they're just a distraction from the true purpose which is air combat. So let's make AH just stick figure airplanes flying over a flat featureless, textureless plane. Kind of like Air Warrior version 1.0 from about 30 years ago.
The idea of complaining about something that is so trivial to kill (a 50 cal need only land in the same county as an 88mm to kill it) and yet is so little a threat (it's nearly impossible to hit anything with the 88mm) is beyond me.
Finally, what makes you think I'd be stupid enough to take off in an airplane and try to engage you from a horrendous energy deficit (slow and low)?
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Not sure what kind of dysfunctional squad you have to fly for to hear this, but I have never heard anything remotely close to that from either of the squads that I've been in.
Oh!! You want it to be less graphic with more nuance, innuendo and Sunday Schoolish.
Squad Member: Gee Golly Willikers, Mr. CO sir I never.
CO: Don't worry we are above all of this except when we are pushed.
Squad Member: CO I'll follow you anywhere......
I seem to remember Nomde pretty much summed up my first dialog when I was with the old 56th. And my current CO despises ack and runway picks from 1000 out with a 37mm just to get the rage PMs. And you don't walk on water anymore than I do unless it's in this game and you are trying to walk to shore. Biologically none of us minds our own stink but, we will spend all day telling everyone we can how much someone else does and that something has to be done about them. It's called NIMBY these days.
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So then you are constructing your argument off of statements of the previous squads incarnation that were made years ago. I'm sorry I didn't see the connection to the re-established squad that we have today, especially considering that I've only seen Nomdy once in the last four or five months due to a medical condition that has prevented him from playing. Next time I see him, I'll be sure to ask him about it.
As for your analysis, I do believe that it's actually called hypocrisy. There is plenty of it that goes around in the game, however I make an effort to avoid it as much as possible. If you see me calling someone out on something, it's because there is no way in hell I would be caught doing the same things they did. Yes, I will pick, vulch and HO just like everyone else, but you will never see me call someone out on it. I call people out on ack running, ack hugging, and shooting a landing plane, which I will only do (excluding the last one) on the rare occasions that I'm out of fuel/bullets.
I also fail to see how either of your previous statements are even remotely related to the original wish an any way. But if you would like to continue with anecdotal fallacies, then go for it.
To the OP: So if the 88's don't encourage "fighting" and need to be removed, then shouldn't all GVs be removed as well? After all, I can't take off in my T34 and engage your plane, right? And what about all those trees.. I can't take off in a tree and engage you either, so lets get rid of them too. And all of the buildings.. can't fly those either. And the mountains.. they just get in the way of aircraft battles. And the textures of the planes, because they're just a distraction from the true purpose which is air combat. So let's make AH just stick figure airplanes flying over a flat featureless, textureless plane. Kind of like Air Warrior version 1.0 from about 30 years ago.
We should take out the variety as well, the only thing we'll fly is P-51s!
The idea of complaining about something that is so trivial to kill (a 50 cal need only land in the same county as an 88mm to kill it) and yet is so little a threat (it's nearly impossible to hit anything with the 88mm) is beyond me.
A 50 cal needs to get a direct hit on any gun to kill it. An actual direct hit on the physical gun. I'm not sure where your argument that a 50 cal round explodes on contact is coming from. As a second point, while the 88s are hard to use, they are far from innocuous. I have rounds thrown at me on a regular basis that are close enough to be a threat. I've also been killed by an 88 while maneuvering from at more than 6k out.
Unless there is any real evidence that the 88 guns are actually making a significant contribution to the game, I still say that they should be removed. As it stands now they take more away from the game than they have to offer it.
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When the field is capped and or getting vulched and all the hangars are down, I might jump in a field gun. Its hard to hit with the 88 but with some practice and a lot of spent ammo, you connect once in a while. Taking the wing off a guy that just vulched you is fun. They are easy enough to kill. Under 1.5 they don't even detonate so they have to get a direct hit on you, which isn't easy. They make great tank killers when the VH is down and the base is getting rolled.
I jump in a 88 when the enemy dictates it. 88's are for when the enemy has taken away the other options for base defense or getting a plane up to fight. My favorite is when a guy is deacking and gets mad when ack/flak kills him????
If you take the enemy's hangars or cap the field and vulch...it's sorta silly to accuse the guy in the 88 as the one who is having a negative effect on the fight.
I would be fine with awarding a kill when a manned field gun is destroyed, only fair.
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-1
88s are good for the gameplay.
-C+
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How about some manned 88's at strat factories or city? :devil
at least someone can "intercept" aircraft that sneek through the country call-outs.
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How about some manned 88's at strat factories or city? :devil
hq too
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hq too
No. Not only no, but...
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc473/UnkShadow/hellnocat.jpg)
What we need is a battery of flak guns to control, to defend the HQ. :)
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No. Not only no, but...
(http://i1213.photobucket.com/albums/cc473/UnkShadow/hellnocat.jpg)
What we need is a battery of flak guns to control, to defend the HQ. :)
Yes like the Germans had in WW2 ^__^
Me want 88 batteries to protect the factories and HQ!!
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NO
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NO
No 88 batteries at HQ? :(
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No 88 batteries at HQ? :(
HQ should have massive flak batteries. More than any other base/strat on the map. Like so much flak that you could walk on a cloud of 88 cheesy poofs :)
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Yes I think so too.
The fascists that bomb HQ deserve it. :old:
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No 88 batteries at HQ?
Sorry, I meant NO to removing the 88's from the game.
LtngRydr
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Sorry, I meant NO to removing 88s from the game.
LtngRydr
No problem. :)
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The flak batteries at the HQ don't really do much of anything. Has anyone ever been brought down by one?
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The flak batteries at the HQ don't really do much of anything. Has anyone ever been brought down by one?
A few times actually, but... I'm one of the few.
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The 88MM as it is set up in here is fairly harmless since it traverses way to slow and is set up in single gun platform and not in batteries as it would have been. There also is no ground target sight as an 88MM gun would have had in it's T.O.E.(Table or Organization&Equipment) I have never even as much as had a canopy hit like we get over a fleet from the 88. I see no reason to remove it and would rather see it as a towed weapon that can be taken to different location with a prime mover with ground target sights like in the Tiger tanks since that was the a same ground sight issued to the 88s with the correct traverse speed. Now that would cause some real whines in here. :aok
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a same ground sight issued to the 88s with the correct traverse speed.
88s traverse speed is correct for the low gearing. German AAA had two speeds as in the Wirbel & Ostwind these are programmed at the higher gearing in AHII.
88's with the higher gearing would be able to track fighters with ease.
This video hints at the speed capable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0aHnFo5CI8
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88s traverse speed is correct for the low gearing. German AAA had two speeds as in the Wirbel & Ostwind these are programmed at the higher gearing in AHII.
88's with the higher gearing would be able to track fighters with ease.
This video hints at the speed capable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0aHnFo5CI8
That was interesting. Seems like from the video if you use high speed, the reloading time would have to go up.
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How about some HE rounds for the 88.
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88s traverse speed is correct for the low gearing. German AAA had two speeds as in the Wirbel & Ostwind these are programmed at the higher gearing in AHII.
88's with the higher gearing would be able to track fighters with ease.
This video hints at the speed capable.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0aHnFo5CI8
I was under the impression the gearing on the Wirbl and Ostwind were both on the slow gear. :headscratch:
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Up an aircraft with rockets, rocket the 88's from long range, then do as you were doing from 6k away. Problem solved.
Don't like aircraft with rockets? Then fly something and de-ack the whole field, and let them sit in a AA type gv for 15min.. Until the 88's are back up...
Do I agree that the guy siting in the 88 is a tool? Absolutely! But to remove the 88, just because you don't like it shooting at you is a silly request.
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Remove the 88s? Actually I'd like to see that area of the game enhanced. I see having a team effort setup where a player controls a targeting system and feeds target data to other players controlling the flak batteries.
I certainly feel the priority for field/strat defense should be good fighter cover. There are many times though, for whatever reason, there is no time for a player to intercept a bomber strike before release. I consider the 88s (and flak in general) to be a point defense designed as a last line of opposition. i don't see flaks as griefer tools as a means to inflict damage on others while avoiding air combat. As far as I'm concerned, skilled AAA defense is a form of combat in itself and should be explored as a more immersive aspect of the overall strategic air campaign.
Personally I'd rather face AAA fire from live players than the random scatter fire of the AI. i think it would be funner to attack a target knowing i'm up against a fellow player (be it from another plane or AAA gun) than the coding of the computer; conversely, I enjoy getting shots on maruading buffs hitting a friendly field when I know I cannot possibly stop them from the air.
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Remove the 88s? Actually I'd like to see that area of the game enhanced. I see having a team effort setup where a player controls a targeting system and feeds target data to other players controlling the flak batteries.
I certainly feel the priority for field/strat defense should be good fighter cover. There are many times though, for whatever reason, there is no time for a player to intercept a bomber strike before release. I consider the 88s (and flak in general) to be a point defense designed as a last line of opposition. i don't see flaks as griefer tools as a means to inflict damage on others while avoiding air combat. As far as I'm concerned, skilled AAA defense is a form of combat in itself and should be explored as a more immersive aspect of the overall strategic air campaign.
Personally I'd rather face AAA fire from live players than the random scatter fire of the AI. i think it would be funner to attack a target knowing i'm up against a fellow player (be it from another plane or AAA gun) than the coding of the computer; conversely, I enjoy getting shots on maruading buffs hitting a friendly field when I know I cannot possibly stop them from the air.
This. :aok
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If you don't want em you must not be good in them or not have the ability to de-ack. I friggin love em!!! I use them for AT out to 8.5K and could probably get it farther, but the range is too far after there to get any good view of the tracer. I shell spawn campers with it all the time. The pan rate is slow, but the fire rate is incredible. Do wish it had less or no recoil when mounted on the stand. I could understand recoil on a towed version, which also should be in the game towed by the Skd-251 and manned by the player or a joining player!!!
HiTech, do me a fovor and put a cross in the sight so I can kill a tank on the first shot instead of the 3rd.