Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Technical Support => Topic started by: -error on January 15, 2015, 11:17:05 AM
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Hello.
AH client hangs on start when staring after IL2 BoS or WT. I have to kill AH process, restart trackir5 software to make AH work again.
Doesn't happen with mentioned games.
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This usually means other applications are leaving things in an unknown state. We do make some assumptions about the state of DirectX when we come up. However, we have played WT and IL2 both, and have not noticed anything like you have suggested.
Are you running any anti-xxxx type of software? That could introduce problems.
Where does the game appear to hang? At what point, precisely?
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This usually means other applications are leaving things in an unknown state. We do make some assumptions about the state of DirectX when we come up. However, we have played WT and IL2 both, and have not noticed anything like you have suggested.
May be. Even if it is true then both IL2 & WT are re-initialiazing things to known state while AH fails to do that.
Are you running any anti-xxxx type of software? That could introduce problems.
The only anti- thing that I have is MS Security Essentials.
Where does the game appear to hang? At what point, precisely?
It hangs right when I start it. AH window with "Aces High II" title and white background appears and nothing more is happening. After about 10 seconds it turns to "Not Responding" state. After that I close window choosing to terminate program in dialog window or just go to Task Manager and do this manually on AH.exe process.
After I kill AH.exe right green light on trackir is still on. Like something is still using trackir.
If i try to launch IL2 after that, it starts normally but after some time right light turns off. And trackir does not responds to head movements in IL2. If I close IL2 and try to start AH once again - it starts perfectly! I suppose it is IL2 that resets things to known state so AH could work again. Restarting of trackir software helps too.
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The opening screen is fired off before DirectX is even initialized. That is just a regular Windows dialog panel.
I did just test WT and IL2 and cannot recreate the condition you are having, on eight different machines.
At this point I am left only guessing what is going on.
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I do seem to recall some third party software WT uses (or used to use) which can interfere with Aces High, but that has to do with the joystick. It runs in background all the time.
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Thank you for your extensive testing.
I had this issue before. I reported it here already. Now I've re-installed win7 and stuff on SSD drive and bought IL2 BoS.
But this issue is still here on my machine. May be there is some kind of debug mode in AH so I could gather and send some logs?
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There are no debug tools in the game, as it is shipped.
This is the only report I have of this type of problem. I know a lot of other players are running those other games as well.
We are missing something here. Can you post me a link to a complete DXDIAG output?
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Sure. This is plain dxdiag (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5ivR5KzFFQqM1FFZ2lUUkh5Y2M/view?usp=sharing) and this is 64bit dxdiag (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5ivR5KzFFQqR0gtMlM0N215Qm8/view?usp=sharing) outputs.
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You seem to have a whole bunch of USB devices including headset, another microphone in the webcam, UPS, mouse, keyboard, stick, rudder, pedals... Do they get their power from the motherboard or do you use a powered USB hub?
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The CH and Saitek stuff warrants their own powered USB hubs for each set.
Might want to update that RealTek audio driver as well. Also noted you have two different audio devices.
Pretty sure none of that is what is causing the game to not run after WT/IL2 is, but you never know. The opening of the basic Aces High start up screen is very odd as that is such a basic Windows screen.
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After I kill AH.exe right green light on trackir is still on. Like something is still using trackir.
If i try to launch IL2 after that, it starts normally but after some time right light turns off. And trackir does not responds to head movements in IL2. If I close IL2 and try to start AH once again - it starts perfectly! I suppose it is IL2 that resets things to known state so AH could work again. Restarting of trackir software helps too.
Three of our members (myself included) have the exact same problem with AH+TrackIR, though it doesn't involve any other games. It even happens during a normal shutdown. I'd say 90% of the time, if I close AH, then reboot the game (for any reason whatsoever), TrackIR will stay illuminated, and then shut down once the game restarts. I then have to restart AH a second time to get TrackIR to function correctly.
Again, this is not just me, this is three separate members of our squadron, with completely different PC's and configurations, having the identically-same problem. None of the other games I'm familiar with have this problem.
This really becomes an issue when AH crashes to desktop (or a server disco happens). If you reboot the game immediately, TrackIR is disabled. We have to remember to reboot the game, then immediately shut it down, then reboot it again to ensure TrackIR works correctly. If we don't do this and we reconnect, then TrackIR doesn't work at all. We can't exit again with losing a plane to the disco, so you're stuck dogfighting without views set up (as we use TrackIR, so we have no reason to map them to our sticks).
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I have stick, throttle and pedals plugged in powered d-link USB hub. All other USB stuff is plugged in motherboard ports. Including trackir5 camera itself.
PS. I wonder how do you Skuzzy know that I should update audio driver?
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I have stick, throttle and pedals plugged in powered d-link USB hub. All other USB stuff is plugged in motherboard ports. Including trackir5 camera itself.
PS. I wonder how do you Skuzzy know that I should update audio driver?
The driver date is in 2011. I am pretty sure RealTek has updated their drivers since then, although, it is possible that is the latest driver. It would be odd though.
Any abnormal crash can leave things in a mess. When software is not allowed to exit normally, then those cleanup routines are not executed leaving things in a potentially unknown state.
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Three of our members (myself included) have the exact same problem with AH+TrackIR, though it doesn't involve any other games. It even happens during a normal shutdown. I'd say 90% of the time, if I close AH, then reboot the game (for any reason whatsoever), TrackIR will stay illuminated, and then shut down once the game restarts. I then have to restart AH a second time to get TrackIR to function correctly.
Again, this is not just me, this is three separate members of our squadron, with completely different PC's and configurations, having the identically-same problem. None of the other games I'm familiar with have this problem.
This really becomes an issue when AH crashes to desktop (or a server disco happens). If you reboot the game immediately, TrackIR is disabled. We have to remember to reboot the game, then immediately shut it down, then reboot it again to ensure TrackIR works correctly. If we don't do this and we reconnect, then TrackIR doesn't work at all. We can't exit again with losing a plane to the disco, so you're stuck dogfighting without views set up (as we use TrackIR, so we have no reason to map them to our sticks).
Have you tried waiting until the light goes out before restarting AH?
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Have you tried waiting until the light goes out before restarting AH?
To the best of my knowledge, it doesn't go out. I think the most I've waited is ~20 seconds or so, so if it goes out after that, I wouldn't know.
That said, it does go out immediately when the game is restarted, and then comes back on immediately when it's restarted a second time.
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The driver date is in 2011. I am pretty sure RealTek has updated their drivers since then, although, it is possible that is the latest driver. It would be odd though.
:aok
Any abnormal crash can leave things in a mess. When software is not allowed to exit normally, then those cleanup routines are not executed leaving things in a potentially unknown state.
It is understandable if this issue happens after crash. But as Skyyr said and I've seen this many times too, it happens after clean exit from AH client also.
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You may be experiencing a USB type conflict.
I have this same combination of products and once had them all on the same HUB.
CH Stick\throttle - USB 1.01
Saitek Peddles - USB 2.0
TrackIR 5 - USB 2.0
I had your issue sporadically. I ended up with my Saitek\TrakIR5 and CH on two separate powered USB hubs to clear it up. As a caution I placed my Plantronics 780 USB headset on it's own powered HUB. The only USB device plugged directly into my PC is my Logitech Marble mouse. You might as an experiment, uninstall your gaming mouse and drivers. Then use an older basic USB or WiFi mouse with the game just to see.
Anyone notice how often you get a BSOD from chdrvr01.sys when installing new USB hardware or updated USB drivers for other hardware if you don't unplug your CH hardware before installing the new software? I've even had it a few times with video card drivers and updating of mouse drivers.
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OMG, bustr. I'm not ready to make my PC a Christmas tree of USB hubs :-)
And if this is some kind of HW conflict it should be the same for every program using this HW. Shouldn't it?
PS. I noticed that trackir5 gets initialized first and then AH hangs. I see it by right led lighting up. Something going wrong after trackir init code.
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Ever thought you have a marginal TrackIR hardware? Bentnail went through two TR5's dying on him out of the box because they are made in China. But, all of the above mentioned by you stopped after I ran a USB detection app that told me the USB Type of each device and I segregated them to powered HUBs by Type.
A very unique possibility that I've run into with only TrackIR 5, I've been running TrackIR hardware since 3D Pro in 2003. You could have a light source interfering with the camera. By accident I duplicated your problem last summer. I was home testing gunsights. The sun was tracking directly against the windows next to my PC. I have blinds but, having a glossy finish, the cream colored closed blinds became a backlit source of stray light. They were bright enough to interfere with the camera. Another source can be reflections from glasses.
If your internal bus is OK, along with your hardware, you need to look at these things. AH2 is not like any of your other games. The CH usb driver only conflicts during installs and driver updates.
Another thing, are all of your USB ports USB Type auto sensing or, do you have your TR5 in a 1.0 port?
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OMG, bustr. I'm not ready to make my PC a Christmas tree of USB hubs :-)
And if this is some kind of HW conflict it should be the same for every program using this HW. Shouldn't it?
PS. I noticed that trackir5 gets initialized first and then AH hangs. I see it by right led lighting up. Something going wrong after trackir init code.
It may be getting hung in the track ir init code and we are sitting there waiting for it to return.
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I've had some strange anomalies with TIR5 in AH lately. It's running. The left LED on the camera is lit as it sees my head. The right LED lights up when I start AH as it's a supported game--as it should. Some times--but not often--when I get to the tower it loses the game. Right LED goes out as if I've closed the game. It doesn't lose my head as it's tracking that fine. The only way around this is to restart AH and it will pick up just fine and I haven't had that happen to me twice in a session ever. Was annoying to notice it'd happened to me as BOWL Frame 1 was starting. Couldn't re-enter easily at that point so I just rolled old school. So used to it now I thought I was gonna snap my neck trying to see things!
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I was having a similar problem and it turned out to be over heating of my video card.
Another time it happened was due to a memory bleed. Another due to overclocking the Video Card. And another, an errant light source interfering with the camera. And another time was due to not setting my Light Filter Threshold correctly for the room I was in.
PC's are not easy things to diagnose when it comes to the hardware peripherals. If it's not an obvious and simple fix, then you have to roll up your sleeves and get dirty. And eventually when you find the problem, the solution is often maddeningly simple, but, was never obvious.
I ended up with three external powered HUBs. Luck of the draw with my "specific" system board. The only thing most can do for you is iterate all of the techniques they know for trouble shooting things like your problem, and all of the solutions they have come up with over the years in similar situations. But, the owner of the PC still has to get his hands dirty.
I don't remember, did the OP check at the TrackIR community forum for any information?
http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/04-community/community-forum-entrance.html
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That separation of USB devices, broken trackir cameras, etc etc is interesting.
But why only AH affected? I would suspect HW issue myself if there was any other title affected.
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You have to understand how stupid the USB bus is.
When you have multiple devices connected to any given USB hub (multiple ports per hub), each time a byte of data comes across that hub, then Windows calls every interrupt service routine, for each device, connected to that hub. Basically, Windows is asking, "Is this yours?".
The interrupt service routines all have to check to see if it is for them. If it is, they take action and clear the interrupt. If not, then they pass it on to the next device, via Windows. It is always quite possible for any given ISR (interrupt service routine) to muck it up and cause things to get lost by clearing the interrupt, when it is not for them. That causes all manner of hang conditions and/or crashes.
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So am I getting this right that you (hitech team) is not going to even look into this issue, because of "how stupid the USB bus is" and other bla-bla-bla?
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So am I getting this right that you (hitech team) is not going to even look into this issue, because of "how stupid the USB bus is" and other bla-bla-bla?
Its NOT a HTC issue that THEY must look into. As Im sure there are many, many others including myself that have no issue what so ever using the TrackIR system with the game. If it was something in the game more than a few would have issues. It is more than likely that your computer configuration is where the trouble is.
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Yeah yeah. For sure their code is flawless. :angel: It's others that have bugs/issues/whatever. How familiar.
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Yeah yeah. For sure their code is flawless. :angel: It's others that have bugs/issues/whatever. How familiar.
Never said it was flawless, but explain why myself and many others who use trackIR haven't any issues if their code was so flawed.
All I'm suggesting is not to look to HTC for a fix for YOUR computer.
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Never said it was flawless, but explain why myself and many others who use trackIR haven't any issues if their code was so flawed.
but explain why myself and others who use trackIR have this issue? I have 4 titles that work without any hiccups with trackir5 on my PC and only AH have problems.
All I'm suggesting is not to look to HTC for a fix for YOUR computer.
And all I'm asking for is to take closer look at this issue.
BTW, if hitech's code was better instrumented then it is now, it would be easier to debug issues on clients' machines. ;)
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BTW, if hitech's code was better instrumented then it is now, it would be easier to debug issues on clients' machines. ;)
I suspect you have known how to address this issue from the start, and this post has been about other things. Until now you have come off as the average PC using gamer.
So how did you fix your issue with TrakIR..............
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I suspect you have known how to address this issue from the start, and this post has been about other things. Until now you have come off as the average PC using gamer.
So how did you fix your issue with TrakIR..............
Alas.
I've remembered what Skuzzy said about absence of debug mode in AH client.
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Alas.
I've remembered what Skuzzy said about absence of debug mode in AH client.
I am not aware of any game company foolish enough to ship a full debug version of their game. Yes, it is foolish.
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I am not aware of any game company foolish enough to ship a full debug version of their game. Yes, it is foolish.
Gajin. First what came to mind.
Anyways. It would be nice if this issue got looked at while developing that new graphics engine.
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Gajin. First what came to mind.
Anyways. It would be nice if this issue got looked at while developing that new graphics engine.
I cannot duplicate the error. I have tried with eight different systems and cannot duplicate it. There is no way to fix anything that cannot be duplicated.
That said. I did remove the third party driver/utility War Thunder installs (it stays installed and running even after the game has been removed) as it does interfere with Aces High and there is nothing we can do about that one.
If others are having this problem, we have not heard about it. It would be helpful to get information from them as there might be some commonality we can find.
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Oh jeeezzz,
A Skuzzy WT testing brigade....and you wonder how many WT sent to AH for the same kind of testing.......