Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: oboe on January 21, 2015, 08:09:35 AM
-
Wow.
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/report-11-12-patriots-footballs-deflated-article-1.2086269 (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/report-11-12-patriots-footballs-deflated-article-1.2086269)
I think the Patriots at home in a conference championship are almost unbeatable anyway, but it appears they might have once again cheated to gain an unfair advantage. Blaming this on Belichick may be unfair, since it seems to me like a small thing that might've been handled just between Brady and the Pats equipment manager. But, where does the buck stop in a case like this?
-
That's why they are the most hated team in the NFL now. Sorry Cowboy fans you are now at #2. :ahand
-
11 out of 12 balls were under inflated at least 2 lbs - so it wasn't just an off ball with a leak, at least not as likely. Dan Marino said on the news that it wouldn't matter to him, but to some QBs it could help them throw, and help the receiver catch and control better in the rain.
-
That's why they are the most hated team in the NFL now. Sorry Cowboy fans you are now at #2. :ahand
How can you hate a team? Oh wait....I'm an Alabama fan and we hate everybody else, so I guess I do get it :lol
-
But how could Luck and the Colts not noticing this during game? Had been easy to tell the refs during game.
-
That's why they are the most hated team in the NFL now. Sorry Cowboy fans you are now at #2. :ahand
You must have forgotten the 'Aints....getting paid to hurt other players...then Pretty Boy Tom and his flunkies, THEN Dallas, and actually now that they've had a lesson in humility, I don't hatem so much.
-
But how could Luck and the Colts not noticing this during game? Had been easy to tell the refs during game.
Each team uses it's own balls. It got caught when Tom got intercepted. Player told coach and GM, who then told officials. That's why they stopped the game and weighed and then replaced the ball being used.
-
Its the American way and fitting for the All American team to do so.
We cheated the natives out of 3/4'th of a continent for like four barrels of whiskey. We cheated the French out of a huge chunk of land at about 2 cents an acre. I dont know how we got Alaska but Im sure we scammed someone.
Boolah for Belichick. I wish the Bears had him.
-
Each team uses it's own balls. It got caught when Tom got intercepted. Player told coach and GM, who then told officials. That's why they stopped the game and weighed and then replaced the ball being used.
If a player noticed it, how come the refs didn't? Oh yeah, $$$
-
The Patriots are officially ready for Super Bowl XLIX.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B71pGorIAAA0Pa6.png)
-
I dont know how we got Alaska but Im sure we scammed someone.
Bought from the Russians in 1867 for 7.2 million bucks (see 'Seward's Folly'). Did you know that Spain sent several expeditions there and created some settlements?
-
I think the Seahawks can take care of themselves in the Super Bowl, but I'm tempted to say the refs might not cut the Patriots much slack when throwing penalty flags, and that it could be open season on Brady.
But then again I'd rather the refs just call a straight up game.
Let the NFL investigate and see what they turn up. If it really is as bad as it looks, if it were me, I'd suspend Belichick and Brady from football for a year, and would not allow the Patriots to participate in the draft this year. And i would also think that kind of behavior would preclude any possibility for Hall of Fame membership. Especially in light of all the off field stuff this year, the NFL should act decisively to protect its reputation and the perceived integrity of the game.
11 out of 12 footballs under inflated is pretty damning circumstantial evidence, and then they also have Brady on record a few years ago saying he likes throwing under inflated balls.
-
Part of an article in today's WSJ:
“Psst…Did you hear?
“Footballs.”
“They’re onto the footballs.”
“Eleven out of 12 from Sunday’s game. Mortensen had it on ESPN.”
“What do you mean 11 out of 12. Who messed up the 12th?”
“Unclear.”
“Well, the headline puns are out of control.”
“Yes: The headline puns are out of control.”
“Is the NFL investigating?”
“Yes, the NFL is investigating.”
(Three minutes of intense laughter)
“Is the investigation complete?”
“Not yet. Nothing official.”
“Are we getting DQ’d?”
“DQ’d from the Super Bowl?”
(Three minutes of intense laughter)
“But seriously. What are we going to do?”
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-patriots-deflation-investigation-1421854278?mod=WSJ_hp_EditorsPicks
-
How did they cheat? I saw the referee Wiping the football off a bit because it was raining. Is that cheating?
-
Bought from the Russians in 1867 for 7.2 million bucks (see 'Seward's Folly'). Did you know that Spain sent several expeditions there and created some settlements?
$2 an acre, or there abouts. Not a bad scam. I never knew the Spanish ever went up there, thanks. Kinda to cold for them eh?
Anyway....back to football.
-
How did they cheat? I saw the referee Wiping the football off a bit because it was raining. Is that cheating?
I sure don't claim to be an expert at NFL Football and I didn't observe the evidence. If the team is guilty of cheating, then there should be consequences. But I haven't heard if all the footballs were checked. Was there a check of all the game balls? Don't the referees place the footballs on the scrimmage line for every down. I see the ball tossed to a referee after every play (unless it's a football kept by the player after a touchdown). Are the referees trained to detect an under inflated football? 2 lbs per square inch is a lot.
If there was a question with the footballs, why didn't it get addressed during the game? Especially if a pass was intercepted and brought to the attention of the officials. How often are the footballs weighed? Not just for last weeks game, but for all games. If there happen to be any referees on the boards, I would love to hear some of these answered. (And not just the ones who stayed at a Holiday Inn last week either.)
IMO, there are too many unanswered questions.
-
I sure don't claim to be an expert at NFL Football and I didn't observe the evidence. If the team is guilty of cheating, then there should be consequences. But I haven't heard if all the footballs were checked. Was there a check of all the game balls? Don't the referees place the footballs on the scrimmage line for every down. I see the ball tossed to a referee after every play (unless it's a football kept by the player after a touchdown). Are the referees trained to detect an under inflated football? 2 lbs per square inch is a lot.
If there was a question with the footballs, why didn't it get addressed during the game? Especially if a pass was intercepted and brought to the attention of the officials. How often are the footballs weighed? Not just for last weeks game, but for all games. If there happen to be any referees on the boards, I would love to hear some of these answered. (And not just the ones who stayed at a Holiday Inn last week either.)
IMO, there are too many unanswered questions.
it was partly addressed during the game
-
There is a consequence. $25000 fine. That should be per ball. Loss of draft pick. And if it was directed by anyone, suspension for them.
As a Pats fan I am disgusted that they did it, whomever did it. Maybe they have a faulty gauge. I seriously doubt it. But now you have the Ravens claiming they thiught this during thier game for the kicking balls. Which of course the league has responsibility for, not the team. Nice try.
And worse yet, they never once had a question as to the outcome of the game. Add this onto the last one, recording practices I think, and Shula is right-Belicheat. Really annoying stuff.
But they aren't my heroes. And how many of you have popped out to your car while on the clock at work? Snagged a pen or two from the office? Surfed Amazon at your desk? Where do we draw the line on work related behavior? :)
-
Its the American way and fitting for the All American team to do so.
We cheated the natives out of 3/4'th of a continent for like four barrels of whiskey. We cheated the French out of a huge chunk of land at about 2 cents an acre. I dont know how we got Alaska but Im sure we scammed someone.
Boolah for Belichick. I wish the Bears had him.
Rich, that is the most ridiculous statement yet. Pulease...!
-
The 12th ball that had full air volume was the ball the kicker used.
Makes sense....why have an underinflated ball to kick with.
-
Even though with the under-inflated balls had the score at 17-7. But after they were inflated properly, the score went a further 28-0 to the Patriots.
Mind you some of the Colts balls were under inflated. I am not even a Patriots fan, but this really is much ado about nothing.
-
One thing that does merit comment is the temperature drop during the game. Another thought would be the temperature at the time when the balls were checked by the officials. Two very important factors to consider.
-
One thing that does merit comment is the temperature drop during the game. Another thought would be the temperature at the time when the balls were checked by the officials. Two very important factors to consider.
I believe that this is the crux of it.
-
The sad outcome will be that the Patriots will always be branded as cheats. I'm just happy to say that I'm more of a baseball fan and can't wait till spring! Go Sox! :cheers:
-
Bought from the Russians in 1867 for 7.2 million bucks (see 'Seward's Folly'). Did you know that Spain sent several expeditions there and created some settlements?
I read somewhere that the Russians wanted the U.S. to buy Alaska at pretty much any price since they were broke. they also wanted us to have it to keep the English from getting it. At the time, they were afraid they were about to go to war with England, and didnt want the English armies in Canada to be any closer to Russia.
-
One thing that does merit comment is the temperature drop during the game. Another thought would be the temperature at the time when the balls were checked by the officials. Two very important factors to consider.
that's a fair point. I'm not a pats fan by any means and this SB is a 'commercial bowl' for me.
-
The 12th ball that had full air volume was the ball the kicker used.
Makes sense....why have an underinflated ball to kick with.
The balls for the kicking game are controlled by the refs/league Whether or not that includes kickoffs, I cannot say.
-
The Pats as an organization have a ethics problem. They want to win at any cost. This is not exclusive to them though these types of allegations are very rare. And they follow the Pats.
The point that they thumped the Colts is irrelevant. They didn't know the outcome of the game before it started, and they cheated to give them an advantage. For all they knew the game was going down to the wire and this is what they thought would tilt it in their favor.
The league will never DQ them.
This Super Bowl is going to be about as rough as when the League decided they wanted Jerome Bettis to go out with a win. The officiating in that game was so pathetic that even John Madden was talking about it as the color commentator. This is ultimately why I follow UFC. By and large, either you tap the guy out or you don't.
-
Nice of you to pass judgement on them despite the fact no official decision or results of the investigation have been released by the NFL. Purely "unnamed sources".
-
The Pats as an organization have a ethics problem. They want to win at any cost. This is not exclusive to them though these types of allegations are very rare. And they follow the Pats.
The point that they thumped the Colts is irrelevant. They didn't know the outcome of the game before it started, and they cheated to give them an advantage. For all they knew the game was going down to the wire and this is what they thought would tilt it in their favor.
The league will never DQ them.
This Super Bowl is going to be about as rough as when the League decided they wanted Jerome Bettis to go out with a win. The officiating in that game was so pathetic that even John Madden was talking about it as the color commentator. This is ultimately why I follow UFC. By and large, either you tap the guy out or you don't.
Keep swinging slugger.
-
I read somewhere that the Russians wanted the U.S. to buy Alaska at pretty much any price since they were broke. they also wanted us to have it to keep the English from getting it. At the time, they were afraid they were about to go to war with England, and didnt want the English armies in Canada to be any closer to Russia.
Ayup. Sumpin like that.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Purchase
-
I don't care what happens. No one here knows how the balls lost air. If the NFL finds that some skullduggery is involved there are rules that have been violated.
If no evidence is found so what.
-
Mike Zimmer pretty much summed it up for me:
“I think it was like 41-7, right?” Zimmer said, according to NFL.com. “I don’t think the balls had a lot to do with it.”
-
I don't care what happens. No one here knows how the balls lost air. If the NFL finds that some skullduggery is involved there are rules that have been violated.
If no evidence is found so what.
Yeah, so what? Everybody already knows Brady and Belichick have to cheat to win. Don Shula pointed it out years ago.
-
I think the temperature drop theory is interesting, and sure hope the officials ALSO tested the Colts balls at halftime as well. If it was due to temperature it should've affected the Colt's balls similarly. Just have to wait to see how the NFL handles the investigation, and of course how much information they are willing to make public.
As far as Zimmer's comments saying since it was 41-7, the balls didn't have much to do with it-- I hope he's not suggesting it doesn't matter if you cheat as long as you win by a large enough margin to suggest you were going to win regardless. If you were going to win anyway, then why cheat? And what a lousy lesson to teach kids besides.
-
Yeah, so what? Everybody already knows Brady and Belichick have to cheat to win. Don Shula pointed it out years ago.
Pats took their lumps for a foolish case of supposedly taping the Jets Signals. Foolish or not, it was illegal under the NFL rules. The funny thing is, that no other allegations have ever been proven. So, it's best just to label them as "cheats" as they consistently put together a good team.
Not that it makes cheating right, but if you believe the Patriots that are the only ones breaking the rules, you're fooling yourself.
-
I'd agree Oboe. The only thing with that theory is that Luck might prefer to have his on the higher end of the spectrum and a pressure drop might bring them down, but keep them within specs. Who knows. What I do know is that too many people are convicting without the benefit of all the information.
The other elephant in the room is that the NFL inspected the balls prior to the game. The balls were then given to the ball attendant. If they, the NFL, signed off that they were ok, and the ball attendant deflated them, it's a big issue. If the NFL signed off and no one touched them, I have a hard time blaming the Patriots unless they come out and say they intentionally tried to do it. Here nor there, no official words from the investigation, just people speaking on condition of annonymity, which on it's very merit is wrong.
-
I'd agree Oboe. The only thing with that theory is that Luck might prefer to have his on the higher end of the spectrum and a pressure drop might bring them down, but keep them within specs. Who knows. What I do know is that too many people are convicting without the benefit of all the information.
The other elephant in the room is that the NFL inspected the balls prior to the game. The balls were then given to the ball attendant. If they, the NFL, signed off that they were ok, and the ball attendant deflated them, it's a big issue. If the NFL signed off and no one touched them, I have a hard time blaming the Patriots unless they come out and say they intentionally tried to do it. Here nor there, no official words from the investigation, just people speaking on condition of annonymity, which on it's very merit is wrong.
I agree with this completely!
This is the problem. Everyone is jumping on the fact the Patriots deflated the footballs without any official ruling. Pretty much standard a response from people who hate the Patriots. And just to be on the record, I do live in New England, but I don't agree with calling the team a bunch of cheats until all the facts are out. I'm not siding with the Pats. If they are guilty with tampering with the game balls, then they deserve the harshest of punishments.
I'm sure we'll see more of this garbage in the future. What ever happened to just playing the game? What's next? Keeping the balls under lock & key? BS like this is why I prefer hockey and baseball. Oh wait, you can put too much tar on a bat and put snot on baseball! Damn! I guess we're all doomed to watch fishing on ESPN. :bhead
-
It's the way of the world. Read some place someone said "if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying" another one is "it's "innovating" until you get caught, then it's cheating".
due to the history of sore loser's calling out the Pats over the years every eye is on them. As someone else said above, if you think only the Pats are looking for short cuts then your pretty blind.
-
I'd agree Oboe. The only thing with that theory is that Luck might prefer to have his on the higher end of the spectrum and a pressure drop might bring them down, but keep them within specs. Who knows. What I do know is that too many people are convicting without the benefit of all the information.
The other elephant in the room is that the NFL inspected the balls prior to the game. The balls were then given to the ball attendant. If they, the NFL, signed off that they were ok, and the ball attendant deflated them, it's a big issue. If the NFL signed off and no one touched them, I have a hard time blaming the Patriots unless they come out and say they intentionally tried to do it. Here nor there, no official words from the investigation, just people speaking on condition of annonymity, which on it's very merit is wrong.
So you take your car down to get it inspected and they give you a sticker. You get back home and remove all the smog devices and install straight exhaust. It's not your fault when you get caught with an illegal car because you have an inspection sticker?
I have no problem with the formations. Hey, that's innovation. Way to game the game. But only NE balls were deflated. Only NE sideline had access to them. Homer, please. Belicheat gotta Belicheat.
-
RPM,
How do you knwo the refs even checked the pressures? Do you know that the ball attendant or another subject changed the pressures? If you do, maybe you should call the NFL. As for the inflations, you are speaking purely on assumption. You don't know what range the Colts inflate their balls to, nor do you know what the Patriots inflate theirs to (insert under-inflation joke here).
I'll say it again... Until it is proven and stated by the NFL, everything is an assumption now.
-
Because that is pregame SOP the NFL and both teams acknowledge happened. The team is responsible for the balls after inspection. Nobody else. That's standard throughout the league.
Also heard an interview with Troy Aikman today and he said nobody is going to randomly deflate Tom Brady's footballs without Tom Brady and Belicheat knowing about it. This wasn't the first time it's happened either. It's just the first time they were caught doing it. Brady has said in the past he prefers an under inflated ball (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/brady-said-in-2011-he-likes-deflated-footballs/).
Homer please. :ahand
-
If the Pats had fumbled or thrown an interception early in the game because of a slippery ball it would have changed the outcome. The momentum of a team can change with one play. Those that will say "oh they won by a lot so cheating doesn't matter" have lttle ethics of their own.
Anyone that touched those balls could have deflated them with a small needle device preset for a certain pressure just like the off road deflators for tires.
In Nascar depending on what part they tampered with it could take them out of championship contention with fines and suspensions.
If the Pats are guilty it will taint their season and Superbowl win if any.
-
Disqualify the Patriots, I don't want them in the Superbowl much less win it. Living in New England makes football suddenly a front page story when it should remain in the sports section. You would swear the fans own stock in the team or something the way they get excited en masse like a group of pathetic lemmings.
-
I don't think that temperature change would change the air pressure that much. From PV = nRT, a 15% change in pressure (2 psi on a 13 psi baseline) would need a 15% change in temperature, but temperature as measured in Kelvin (i.e., room temperature is about 294 K). So a 15% change in temperature would be 44 K worth of difference (which is 44 C of difference or about an 80 deg F change in temperature). So, unless they filled the balls at 130 deg F and then took them into 50 deg F, it wouldn't change the pressure in the ball by 2 psi.
Unless I have made a math error.
-
Interestingly, there is this, according to NBC Sports:
"I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it," said Aaron Rodgers.
From:
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/
So, maybe fiddling with one's balls happens more than we previously thought.
Seahawks do it in another way.
(http://blog.seattlepi.com/football/files/2015/01/lynch_crotch-600x408.jpg)
-
http://youtu.be/RSwxRxvFRwI (http://youtu.be/RSwxRxvFRwI)
-
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24984362/john-madden-hines-ward-aikman-tom-brady-involved-in-deflategate
Brady has denied any involvement in Deflategate, but former Cowboys quarterback Troy Aikman isn't buying it.
"It's obvious that Tom Brady had something to do with this," Aikman told KTCK-AM in Dallas on Thursday morning. "For the balls to be deflated, that doesn't happen unless the quarterback wants that to happen, I can assure you of that."
Former Steelers wide receiver Hines Ward echoed Aikman on Wednesday. Ward told the "Today" show that the only people who probably knew about Deflategate were "Tom Brady and the ball boy."
Brady admitted in 2011 that he likes to use a slightly underinflated football.
Hall of Fame coach John Madden also weighed in on the matter this week and he agrees with Aikman and Ward on one thing: Brady was likely involved.
"That would have to be driven by the quarterback," Madden said on Wednesday, via the Sports Xchange. "That's something that wouldn't be driven by a coach or just the equipment guy. Nobody, not even the head coach, would do anything to a football unilaterally, such as adjust the amount of pressure in a ball, without the quarterback not knowing. It would have to be the quarterback's idea."
-
OK, I admit it: I deflated the balls.
-
I honestly believe they were definitely deflated because of the cold weather so it would help in the grip and the throwability and the catchability...... Now on a funny side note a ESPN football analyst went back I think seven or eight years and checked their wins and losses and points scored during cold/rainy weather and warm nice weather wins and losses and points scored, just guess which climate that the Patriots rack up more points and wins in.... You guessed it cold / rainy lol.
Now would have it made a difference in the Colts game probably not but how long have they been deflating it, that's the thing we don't know this could have been going on for years or just this one game.
-
So, maybe fiddling with one's balls happens more than we previously thought.
Seahawks do it in another way.
LOL!
-
Cheating is cheating. There is no gray area. Cheating when you would have beaten the other team without cheating is worse, not better.
-
So you take your car down to get it inspected and they give you a sticker. You get back home and remove all the smog devices and install straight exhaust. It's not your fault when you get caught with an illegal car because you have an inspection sticker?
I have no problem with the formations. Hey, that's innovation. Way to game the game. But only NE balls were deflated. Only NE sideline had access to them. Homer, please. Belicheat gotta Belicheat.
Being a New Englander and hearing about this annoys me because i hate football but it Seem sombody hates the Pats bitterly and that is laughable
-
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24984362/john-madden-hines-ward-aikman-tom-brady-involved-in-deflategate
Brady has denied any involvement in Deflategate, but former Cowboys quarterback Troy Aikman isn't buying it.
"It's obvious that Tom Brady had something to do with this," Aikman told KTCK-AM in Dallas on Thursday morning. "For the balls to be deflated, that doesn't happen unless the quarterback wants that to happen, I can assure you of that."
Former Steelers wide receiver Hines Ward echoed Aikman on Wednesday. Ward told the "Today" show that the only people who probably knew about Deflategate were "Tom Brady and the ball boy."
Brady admitted in 2011 that he likes to use a slightly underinflated football.
Hall of Fame coach John Madden also weighed in on the matter this week and he agrees with Aikman and Ward on one thing: Brady was likely involved.
"That would have to be driven by the quarterback," Madden said on Wednesday, via the Sports Xchange. "That's something that wouldn't be driven by a coach or just the equipment guy. Nobody, not even the head coach, would do anything to a football unilaterally, such as adjust the amount of pressure in a ball, without the quarterback not knowing. It would have to be the quarterback's idea."
Obviously since Aikman and Madden think it is Brady then it must be true.... You should become a prosecutor. :rofl
-
This is ultimately why I follow UFC. By and large, either you tap the guy out or you don't.
Apparently, you can eye gouge and kick the cup multiple times to gain advantage.
-
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24984362/john-madden-hines-ward-aikman-tom-brady-involved-in-deflategate
Brady has denied any involvement in Deflategate, but former Cowboys quarterback Troy Aikman isn't buying it.
"It's obvious that Tom Brady had something to do with this," Aikman told KTCK-AM in Dallas on Thursday morning. "For the balls to be deflated, that doesn't happen unless the quarterback wants that to happen, I can assure you of that."
Former Steelers wide receiver Hines Ward echoed Aikman on Wednesday. Ward told the "Today" show that the only people who probably knew about Deflategate were "Tom Brady and the ball boy."
Brady admitted in 2011 that he likes to use a slightly underinflated football.
Hall of Fame coach John Madden also weighed in on the matter this week and he agrees with Aikman and Ward on one thing: Brady was likely involved.
"That would have to be driven by the quarterback," Madden said on Wednesday, via the Sports Xchange. "That's something that wouldn't be driven by a coach or just the equipment guy. Nobody, not even the head coach, would do anything to a football unilaterally, such as adjust the amount of pressure in a ball, without the quarterback not knowing. It would have to be the quarterback's idea."
The score was 17-7 prior to the referee's inspection. After the Colts whined, they scored no points and the Pats put 28 unanswered points on the board. But while you're at it, you do realize that the Colts were guilty of the same right?
Go Colts! Wait, they didn't even show up to play the game, whined, were guilty of said whine themselves and are spared because they had sour grapes? I do not care for the Pats, but they are being steamrolled by something that is much ado about nothing.
Bodhi, just ignore "wannabe legal beagles" on here and enjoy watching the Pats in the SB.
-
Free advertizing. Have to keep the public interested for 2 weeks til the Super Dud game.
-
Free advertizing. Have to keep the public interested for 2 weeks til the Super Dud game.
Bingo!
-
The score was 17-7 prior to the referee's inspection. After the Colts whined, they scored no points and the Pats put 28 unanswered points on the board. But while you're at it, you do realize that the Colts were guilty of the same right?
Go Colts! Wait, they didn't even show up to play the game, whined, were guilty of said whine themselves and are spared because they had sour grapes? I do not care for the Pats, but they are being steamrolled by something that is much ado about nothing.
Bodhi, just ignore "wannabe legal beagles" on here and enjoy watching the Pats in the SB.
No, it was Jon Harbaugh; only an immature coach like him would do such a thing, he has sour grapes from the beating the previous game...
You hate the NFL, why do you have such an interest in always commenting about it?
-
Oh... A team trying to bend the rules... I'm in chock... really...
-
Local coverage; great vid at the bottom]http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2015/01/12_questions_tom_brady_still_needs_to_answer] (http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/patriots_nfl/new_england_patriots/2015/01/12_questions_tom_brady_still_needs_to_answer)
-
No, it was Jon Harbaugh; only an immature coach like him would do such a thing, he has sour grapes from the beating the previous game...
You hate the NFL, why do you have such an interest in always commenting about it?
Harbaugh defended a wife beater caught on video and even later admitted he should have waited on his comments.
Bellicheck benched a running back who had come off of a 200 yard game, because he overslept. Go Ravens!
-
Obviously since Aikman and Madden think it is Brady then it must be true.... You should become a prosecutor. :rofl
Agreed. What do guys like Aikman and Madden know about NFL games when compared to your up close and personal experience?
Prosecutors dream about getting cases like this. Keep running your mouth. It makes the eventual watching of you refusing to swallow your crow taco that much sweeter.
And get used to wearing one of these:
(http://xochi.info/XOCHI.INFO/flowers/X/xochi_asterisk-999px.png)
-
NFL's Friday afternoon statement: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000462476/article/nfl-investigation-of-balls-in-afc-title-game-led-by-pash-wells (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000462476/article/nfl-investigation-of-balls-in-afc-title-game-led-by-pash-wells)
-
I don't think that temperature change would change the air pressure that much. From PV = nRT, a 15% change in pressure (2 psi on a 13 psi baseline) would need a 15% change in temperature, but temperature as measured in Kelvin (i.e., room temperature is about 294 K). So a 15% change in temperature would be 44 K worth of difference (which is 44 C of difference or about an 80 deg F change in temperature). So, unless they filled the balls at 130 deg F and then took them into 50 deg F, it wouldn't change the pressure in the ball by 2 psi.
Unless I have made a math error.
I did make a math error. Ball psi is about 13, but the absolute pressure is 13 + 15 (15 psi being the normal sea-level air pressure). So, a 2 psi change is 2 / 28 or 7%. A 7% change in temp is 20 C or 36 deg F. That is getting more into the realm of possibility. Especially if checking with a gauge loses a bit of pressure during the check on top of that.
-
if they could figure a way of prepping the balls to naturally deflate and pass all rules inspections, kudos to them. not a cheat. If they poke game balls with a needle after inspection thats cheating and they know it. If they "gronk" or rub them out after inspection id call it ok. heck if they overinflated them or underinflated them going into inspection and pass thats ok too. part of gaming the game. not a problem that warrants penalty or smearing the past.
:old:
-
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-lZqnBeH9pQc/VMFtSXT26RI/AAAAAAAAl0s/vVBqx_v5wxA/s1600/we%2Bscored%2B17%2Bpoints.jpg)
-
For when the One Great Scorer comes to mark against your name,
He writes - not that you won or lost - but how you played the Game.
-
Agreed. What do guys like Aikman and Madden know about NFL games when compared to your up close and personal experience?
Prosecutors dream about getting cases like this. Keep running your mouth. It makes the eventual watching of you refusing to swallow your crow taco that much sweeter.
And get used to wearing one of these:
Only thing I have ever advocated was to allow the NFL to give their conclusions, not the "opinions" of everyone else. The investigation is not complete, the NFL has yet to release their conclusions. Despite this, everyone is weighing in, regardless of the facts. You should bear this in mind.
The only facts out there are this: The NFL is investigating the improper inflation of some balls.
Leaks and annonymous sources are not the NFL. Nothing else is factual until the NFL says so.
I'll leave you with this"
From the NFL
The goals of the investigation will be to determine the explanation for why footballs used in the game were not in compliance with the playing rules and specifically whether any noncompliance was the result of deliberate action. We have not made any judgments on these points and will not do so until we have concluded our investigation and considered all of the relevant evidence.
-
Prediction:
Russell Wilson and the Seattle Seahawks will win their 2nd Super Bowl on Feb 1st, second of 5 in the Pete Carroll era.
A dynasty was born last year boys.
-
If you have facebook, some kids at a local vocational school did an experiment.
https://www.facebook.com/PathfinderRegionalVocationalTechnicalHighSchool?fref=nf
For those who don't have facebook, the kids inflated a football to just over 13 psi at room temperature. They then took the ball and put it in a bucket of water that was at 52.1 degrees. As the ball cooled to match the water the pressure dropped in the ball. In the 2 and half minutes it was in the water it dropped to under 12 psi.
-
Given the forensic investigative company the NFL hired, they'll get to the bottom of it.
-
So the ref's who handle the balls, after EVERY play didn't notice , but one interception and the other team got suspicious? I smell something funny
-
If you have facebook, some kids at a local vocational school did an experiment.
https://www.facebook.com/PathfinderRegionalVocationalTechnicalHighSchool?fref=nf
For those who don't have facebook, the kids inflated a football to just over 13 psi at room temperature. They then took the ball and put it in a bucket of water that was at 52.1 degrees. As the ball cooled to match the water the pressure dropped in the ball. In the 2 and half minutes it was in the water it dropped to under 12 psi.
LIES!!!! The All Knowing RPM will cast that alethephobic experiment into the abyss!
-
LIES!!!! The All Knowing RPM will cast that alethephobic experiment into the abyss!
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
-
Ya know, things are so precarious these days, that folks should tell the truth.
Be good. Do well. Write often.
Adults should behave better than 5th graders.
-
Agreed Hap.
-
The NFL set the standard when they let teams have there own balls. this gives teams the right to make their balls as they see fit. If the pats cheated they should get punished if they gamed the game there is nothing wrong with that. The game balls should be controlled by the NFL. Basketball plays with one ball, hockey one puck, soccer one ball, baseball uses its own balls per league. why does the nfl let each team have its own ball? Every single team makes those balls be as they want them to be. Its kind of silly to say you can make them how you want, just in specs, and leave 2 +1/2 hours for them to sit and/or be played with. On top of that their controls are nothing more than a pressure gauge and a scale. By rule that opens up a world of possibilities on how to doctor the ball. just my 2 cents.
-
I agree with NatCigg. Letting the teams have their own balls to use in the game just invites tampering. Makes sense to me that the NFL should provide the balls to use in the contest, and both teams should use the same ball.
-
I agree with NatCigg. Letting the teams have their own balls to use in the game just invites tampering. Makes sense to me that the NFL should provide the balls to use in the contest, and both teams should use the same ball.
Yep, it would make sense that the NFL provide the balls.
-
New balls (36 for outside games, 24 for indoor games) are delivered to the Officials room pregame where they are set to NFL standards. They are then given to the teams.
Also the balls used for kicking is not the same as the regular play balls
-
Only thing I have ever advocated was to allow the NFL to give their conclusions, not the "opinions" of everyone else. The investigation is not complete, the NFL has yet to release their conclusions. Despite this, everyone is weighing in, regardless of the facts. You should bear this in mind.
The only facts out there are this: The NFL is investigating the improper inflation of some balls.
Leaks and annonymous sources are not the NFL. Nothing else is factual until the NFL says so.
I'll leave you with this"
From the NFL
(http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com/images/07-minister.jpg)
Nothing is factual until the NFL says so? That's pretty naive.
-
Nothing is factual until the NFL says so? That's pretty naive.
Waiting on a statement from the NFL that will release the results of investigation when it is complete is naive? Just wow...
Have you considered any of the following? Should we take the word of people who were not involved in the incident? Should we take the word of those that offer opinions? How about those that release information, yet choose to remain annonymous? Sorry RPM, but if the NFL is the one that will be handling the investigation, potentially handing out punishment, and has said no comment until the completion of the investigation; I am going to wait on the NFL before making any statements about the Patriots character.
You on the other hand seem to have no problem basing your opinion on heresay and/or opinion. Let me step aside so you can get back to your pitchfork. Obviously discussing this incident any further with you is not going to amount to anything.
-
Summary of thread and future:
(http://sportsdad60.smugmug.com/NFC-CHAMPIONSHIP/i-vX9pZXv/0/X2/IMG_203185964291335-X2.jpg)
-
Nothing is factual until the NFL says so? That's pretty naive.
Here's the deal. There's the truth(what really happened) and then there's "the truth"(what you have been told, if different from actual truth).
Eventually, the NFL will announce publicly what their investigation found. There they will disclose who was at fault, what they did and what the penalty is - that is if anyone was found doing anything nefarious or negligent - in this case there would be no penalty. This announcement, regardless of what the content is, is the truth as far as the NFL, the Patriots, me, you, or anyone else thinks. If you think the truth given in the statement is just "the truth", then that's on you, and have fun thinking that your opinion matters in the end.
-
Waiting on a statement from the NFL that will release the results of investigation when it is complete is naive? Just wow...
Have you considered any of the following? Should we take the word of people who were not involved in the incident? Should we take the word of those that offer opinions? How about those that release information, yet choose to remain annonymous? Sorry RPM, but if the NFL is the one that will be handling the investigation, potentially handing out punishment, and has said no comment until the completion of the investigation; I am going to wait on the NFL before making any statements about the Patriots character.
You on the other hand seem to have no problem basing your opinion on heresay and/or opinion. Let me step aside so you can get back to your pitchfork. Obviously discussing this incident any further with you is not going to amount to anything.
You're right again. We should trust the NFL to be completely fair and impartial. No way would the sanctioning body of a professional sports league cover up to avoid scandal... At least not the same league twice in 12 months.:rofl
(http://www.sportsdebateuniverse.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/Roger-Goodell.jpg)
-
rpm is just upset his Cowgirls didn't make it to the Big Game again. :devil
-
rpm is just upset his Cowgirls didn't make it to the Big Game again. :devil
This
-
Pats cheat and nothing so far.
Meanwhile, Lynch grabs his balls in the endzone on Sunday and fined $11,000.
Kearse chucks game winning ball into crowd and fined $5500.
Madness, I tell you. Goodell is all bad and needs to go.
-
rpm is just upset his Cowgirls didn't make it to the Big Game again. :devil
Pffft. Please. Jerruah didn't contribute enough to the Referees Widows & Orphans Fund to make it to the next round...
This will be a great game for Rip. If the Seahawks win, dynasty talk. If they lose, they were just defeated by a bunch of cheaters once again. Kudos, Rip. Enjoy this one. :salute
-
The Patriots have balls?
-
You're right again. We should trust the NFL to be completely fair and impartial. No way would the sanctioning body of a professional sports league cover up to avoid scandal... At least not the same league twice in 12 months.:rofl
Obviously vigilante/mob justice based upon rumors and opinion is the way to go...
-
The SNL cold opening about the Pats was pretty good. :rofl
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPDEMQzLQVM
-
Pffft. Please. Jerruah didn't contribute enough to the Referees Widows & Orphans Fund to make it to the next round...
This will be a great game for Rip. If the Seahawks win, dynasty talk. If they lose, they were just defeated by a bunch of cheaters once again. Kudos, Rip. Enjoy this one. :salute
The Colts are cheaters as well, but didn't show up to play.
-
And now a statistician has noted that the Patriots fumble rate at home since 2007 is virtually impossible. Basically, the Pats may have been deflating the balls since 2007. Their rate of fumble has a 1 in 16,000+ chance of being possible.
The plot thickens. Pats....
Boo
-
And now a statistician has noted that the Patriots fumble rate at home since 2007 is virtually impossible. Basically, the Pats may have been deflating the balls since 2007. Their rate of fumble has a 1 in 16,000+ chance of being possible.
The plot thickens. Pats....
Boo
Actually, it's not as mathematically sound as it seems. Players who habitually fumble the ball don't last under Belichick. Limit the opportunity for a fumble, you will have less fumbles.
-
And now a statistician has noted that the Patriots fumble rate at home since 2007 is virtually impossible. Basically, the Pats may have been deflating the balls since 2007. Their rate of fumble has a 1 in 16,000+ chance of being possible.
The plot thickens. Pats....
Boo
I wonder what the same ratio is for the Colts.
-
K2, what's your prediction?
Here's mine...
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10915182_332682273604316_5617701106677188813_n.jpg?oh=84f6977deb76ad43dec217e5206981b5&oe=5523F100&__gda__=1428525110_90ea57fc8931cefd2025ebab095e1224)
-
K2, what's your prediction?
Here's mine...
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10915182_332682273604316_5617701106677188813_n.jpg?oh=84f6977deb76ad43dec217e5206981b5&oe=5523F100&__gda__=1428525110_90ea57fc8931cefd2025ebab095e1224)
Personally, I see this being a close one, unless the wheels fall off of the wagon on one of the teams. Then either train runs away.....
Seattle has the edge on rushing.
New England has the edge of passing.
Both teams are a wash on penalties and the defenses are comparable. IMO this game is going to come down to Special Teams & FG's made/blown.
Sea - 27
NE - 21
I personally don't have a dog in the fight and would not be mad if either team won; I just see Seattle's defense being the lynchpin. The biggest question is how agile Sherman will be.
-
Thanks! Always enjoy your perspective as you know football pretty good. :rock
Personally, I see Seattle's success hinged on blocking for Lynch, and how well our secondary does. Our pass rush isn't there this year like last with the loss of Big Red and Clemons.
-
Found the explanation on this issue to be fairly interesting. Not sure how reputable they are, but they have been in business about a year...
http://www.headsmartlabs.com/
-
I would not be surprised for the NFL to require nitrogen to be used in the footballs next year.
-
I would not be surprised for the NFL to require nitrogen to be used in the footballs next year.
Brilliant! Instead of under-inflated balls filled with O2 and a medly of various atmospheric gasses, we will get under-inflated balls filled with pure nitrogen.
Carry on.
-
(http://www.gq.com/images/sports/2015/02/roger-goodell/roger-goodell-gq-magazine-february-2015-03.jpg)
Mmmm. You smell like yeast rolls and Halston Z-14.
-
Actually, it's not as mathematically sound as it seems. Players who habitually fumble the ball don't last under Belichick. Limit the opportunity for a fumble, you will have less fumbles.
The point of the observation, the Patriots are a complete outlier since 2007. No other team comes as close. So either Bill Belichick is a Vegas style wizard are recruiting players who do not fumble, or something else explains it.
-
Found the explanation on this issue to be fairly interesting. Not sure how reputable they are, but they have been in business about a year...
http://www.headsmartlabs.com/
That was an interesting find, Bodhi. I think the results must be reproducible to be valid. Also, we'd need a way to account for that 12th ball that didn't deflate as the other 11 did, and of course all the Colts' balls, which apparently remained at the proper inflation level during the game.
I could speculate that the 12th ball was accidentally over-inflated, and then it dropped into an acceptable range while the other 11 dropped below. And, maybe the Colt's personnel inflated their balls outside using 50 degree air, so no temperature-induced deflation occurred?
It could also be that if temperature-induced deflation is real, that the Patriots' equipment staff could be well aware of it, and knowing that Brady prefers under-inflated balls, intentionally inflated them indoors so they would deflate when exposed to the cooler outside temperatures?
Still, the Patriots used balls that did not comply with the NFL's prescribed rules governing pressure, and so I'd would be really surprised if there wasn't a $25,000 fine against the team and some people on the Patriots' staff receiving some kind of disciplinary action.
<shrug> We'll just have to wait and see I guess.
-
I don't know Oboe. We'll have to wait to see what the NFL says.
Either way, this whole incident was handled piss poorly and that in and of itself is sad. Too many willing to assess guilt without knowing the facts or the results of the investigation.
-
Im glad I like Hockey so much cause the NFL is really starting to turn me off.
Once again Belichick is either Lieing, cheating, or both. The game itself has gone gangster and the players have no class "with exceptions". The commissioner is a moron. The penalty flags pop like popcorn every game you watch, you cant even hit the QB. It just seems less and less one see's a game worth watching.
NE hasnt won a SB since they were caught cheating with video tape taping other teams signals coming from the other teams bench. And instead of just having the one radio channel to Brady's Helmet allowed by the league the NEPs had more. So they would tape the other teams signals and develop a video library of them, transmitting to Brady on an unsecured , secret radio channel. Even screaming to him during a play who what receiver was open at the moment. So they knew what the other team was going to do before they did it and transmitted by radio when in fact the radio was supposed to be turned off by the NFL 15 seconds before the play clock went "0".
No wonder Goodall fined Balichick 4 days after he found out and destroyed the tapes right away. This was the worst case of cheating ever in the NFL. He had to make it go away. And now they are maneuvering to make this ball pressure thing go away on the eve on the SB when any moron realizes someone in the Pats organization got their hands on the balls, deflated them the way Brady likes, and made sure they got in the game when they were supposed to. The only ones keeping this story alive is the media. The NFL wants it to go away and the fans dont really care. We are Lied to and cheated every day so whats another Balichick caper?
I bet I watched less NFL this year since I was overseas for 18 mos when we couldnt even get it. The game and the League have no class anymore. If theres a hockey game on I think I'll even pass on the SB.
-
I heard that the Blackhawks deflate their pucks. :uhoh
-
I heard that the Blackhawks deflate their pucks. :uhoh
we used to play with tennis balls instead of pucks.
-
we used to play with tennis balls instead of pucks.
We used to throw rocks at each other. Last man not stoned won.
-
we used to play with tennis balls instead of pucks.
I used to do that, too, when we played street hockey. :aok
-
We used to throw rocks at each other. Last man not stoned won.
And we used to do that, too! We had to stop when one of the kids had to get stitches in his head, which caused our parents to find out and put a stop to it (at least when played in our back yards). Then we moved on to dirt-clod fights in locations away from our own back yards.
-
rich46yo, So glad you know all those things, since obviously, facts and the subsequent investigation don't support it. But hey, witch hunts are prevalent and the norm of justice these days when it comes to allegations.
-
Sounds like they've identified a person of interest. A lowly locker room attendant allegedly removed NE's balls from the officials locker room, and may not have taken them directly to the field.
http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-investigating-patriots-locker-room-attendant-for-deflategate/ar-AA8BMMr?ocid=iehp (http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/nfl-investigating-patriots-locker-room-attendant-for-deflategate/ar-AA8BMMr?ocid=iehp)
EDIT: LOL now they're saying its a non-story - the guy in question took both teams' balls into a bathroom for 90 seconds.
-
We used to throw rocks at each other. Last man not stoned won.
Wouldnt the last man not stoned lost? ;)