Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: XxDaSTaRxx on January 26, 2015, 06:22:07 PM
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Track IR (or similar software) are wonderful tools. It helps a ton, I've heard. Especially with fights where you're tracking multiple targets, say a furball.
I personally fly without TrackIR and I want to see if it's worth purchasing and how much does it bring to the table with Aces High? Just want to hear some input from guys who use it. How useful is it?
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it's like the difference between playing with a mouse and a joystick. once you use it, you wont go back. just be aware, you will get dizzy the first few days you try it, so go slow. but once you get used to it then it's all worth it.
semp
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There's at least two and probably three recent threads on the TrackIR.
I never fly without mine.
But you will hate it. Don't bother. While were talking, it would be a good idea to leave your gear down all the time, never use more than 25% fuel, and don't fly cannon-equipped aircraft (ever). :cool:
Just kidding! After a decent stick with rudder (or a stick, throttle, and rudder pedals) a TrackIR should be your next purchase.
It won't guarantee an immediate kill-death improvement, but you will have a lot more fun while you work on that.
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it's like the difference between playing with a mouse and a joystick. once you use it, you wont go back. just be aware, you will get dizzy the first few days you try it, so go slow. but once you get used to it then it's all worth it.
Really? Never noticed. It adds a certain level of additional immersion, but without the clickable cockpit of a study simulation it does not add enough to make it worth the extra cost. If you fly any study simulations or shooters then that's a different matter. I would not fly FSX or DCS without it.
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Really? Never noticed. It adds a certain level of additional immersion, but without the clickable cockpit of a study simulation it does not add enough to make it worth the extra cost. If you fly any study simulations or shooters then that's a different matter. I would not fly FSX or DCS without it.
well he did ask for opinions and my opinion is what I quoted above :).
semp
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I don't use Track IR, but a free software alternative called FreeTrack. If your handy with basic electric wiring and soldering you can build a tracker unit which can be a very inexpensive choice. It works excellent for AH. Either choice adds a great experience to the flight or race sims in my opinion.
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Has anyone heard of FacetrackNoir? just uses a webcam, and is free. I'd like to know if it works and is compatible with AH.
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Track IR (or similar software) are wonderful tools. It helps a ton, I've heard. Especially with fights where you're tracking multiple targets, say a furball.
I personally fly without TrackIR and I want to see if it's worth purchasing and how much does it bring to the table with Aces High? Just want to hear some input from guys who use it. How useful is it?
I personally can't fly with TrackIR - it annoys me. Games like DCS need it because they fly without icons and they need an ability to zoom in a specific direction.
AH has the best hat management with an ability to fix your head position in a specific direction (something that almost no other games have) it makes it very-very efficient - and allows to know the "angles" much more accurately (due to fixed positions)
AH does not really need TrackIR. Other games do.
Has anyone heard of FacetrackNoir? just uses a webcam, and is free. I'd like to know if it works and is compatible with AH.
It works and compatible with AH.
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With Trackir, an advantage is lowering the FOV for a bit of zoom if you want and still have a good view of the gauges. Attacking GVs is easier with the good visual lock of tracking location during a climb out to set up for an attack. The hat switch becomes another tool with Trackir. I use mine in fighters for flaps and bombers for switching gun positions. During a stall flight as an example it frees up the mind since visual tracking is automatic.
Trackir gives you an edge over someone of equal skills but will not overcome a big difference in skills.
I would say too, if you prefer, fast, dive and shoot planes like the average(not all for sure) 190, p51 player then there is not much advantage to tarckir.
I would probably quite AH if they stopped supporting Trackir.
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Hat views are faster than TIR. I doubt TIR gives an advantage. It's popular because it's more fun. Whichever system you're more used to will be what works best for you.
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. . . I doubt TIR gives an advantage.
Do you use trackir?
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Do you use trackir?
I've used TIR for 10 years. Before that I used hat views for over 10 years.
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I've been using TrackIR for years and don't believe it gives you any advantage at all. I was just as efficient at switching views with my hat switch before getting my first TrackIR. The only thing it does for me is give me more immersive experience and I'd recommend it for that alone.
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Two advantages it gives me over the view hat... one less thing for my right hand to have to do in a fight, and free up some easily accessible buttons for other useful purposes. Beyond that, nothing really. In fact, I'd bet that someone who flies a lot can actually track more targets faster with the view hat. TrackIR just starts to feel so natural after a while that you can't fathom pushing a button to look around anymore.
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Other than just being more fun, for me, the 1 advantage I see is the ability to lean one way or another to look around a canopy support bar. And being able to place said support bar in a position to block the sun on a long climb out.
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you can also keep a target centered while pulling to a quarter sized hole in a black out. Being almost totally blacked out and STILL being able to see what the enemy is doing is a bit of an advantage as well.
The only issue I have with it is aiming. Instead of having that "site picture" with the target just off the upright bar as your firing point, you now have far more "angles/views your looking at and so that many more site pictures. I suppose if you put enough time in with it you would get use to it, but with my schedule it makes it that much tougher to get and maintain a good hit percentage. We all know if you don't hit them hard, you don't knock them down fast, and then you die :D
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I would stop flying AH if my trackIR would break down, until I fixed a new one, I use instant view on a hat, together with the trackIR
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you can also keep a target centered while pulling to a quarter sized hole in a black out. Being almost totally blacked out and STILL being able to see what the enemy is doing is a bit of an advantage as well.
Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly but I've never been able to see what the enemy is doing while blacked out in TrackIR. Can you explain this a little more?
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Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly but I've never been able to see what the enemy is doing while blacked out in TrackIR. Can you explain this a little more?
He means tunnel vision not blackout.
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Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly but I've never been able to see what the enemy is doing while blacked out in TrackIR. Can you explain this a little more?
He means tunnel vision not blackout.
Correct, pulling ALMOST into a black out
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I have used TrackIR and I loved it. It just felt more natural to look around and check your surroundings while in the cockpit. While hat switch may be faster, TrackIR offers hands-free head movement, which is nice since you can use more of your joystick buttons for other purposes. It does take getting used to as it may leave you feeling disoriented at first when learning to use it. Once you get more comfortable, you can start tweaking the sensitivity of the motion sensor to suit your comfort level/play style.
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Used the hat switches for a long long time up until a year or so ago when i started with TIR. I don't know that it gives you "an advantage" but after you get used to using it it seems very natural and intuitive looking around. Now when I watch other's films that are using the hat switches I'll be moving my head trying to change the view! It DOES take some getting used to but once you've got the hang of it there'll be no going back. That said I still have my views mapped to the hat switch on my CH stick and revert to them from time to time. Old habits die hard. The hats on instant view are quicker if you have to track multiple bad guys from multiple directions.
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A framed canopy like a P-38 really helps setting up Trackir. The frames give you a reference.
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Interesting thread! I have been flying AH for many years and have just ordered the latest Trackir. It will be interesting to see how it affects my game. I use a couple of hat switches (8 way on throttle, 4 way on stick for up and down) and the micro stick on my CH Throttle. The micro stick lets me move my head up/down side to side in forward view. So in theory it is going to be a major change for me. Also for info I only use AH mapping as I found that the CH control manager caused occasional views to stick.
The biggest plus I anticipate is keeping the enemy in the middle of the screen instead of it shifting as view angles are changed. As for the negatives .... well I shall see (pun intended!). I am also hopeful it will seem more natural and so improve awareness of aircraft attitude which I find unsettling with the hat views.
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It only took me about fifteen minutes to become a TrackIR fanboi, back when I got my old TrackIR 3 Pro. I never had the dizzyness that some have experienced, luckily. I now have the TrackIR 5 with the LED-based TrackClip Pro, and I simply won't fly without it.
I do have both the "pause" and "re-center" functions mapped to buttons on my controllers, and use them often, especially when making long-range shots.
YMMV
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A framed canopy like a P-38 really helps setting up Trackir. The frames give you a reference.
The tower windows are really good for that too after the initial setup in the TIR camera window. :aok
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this is a short film I made about using trakir and it explains what akak is talking about following a con while almost blacking out. I dove on this guy from a really high altitude while he was trying to run to ack.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTv4y63JheY
semp
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this is a short film I made about using trakir and it explains what akak is talking about following a con while almost blacking out. I dove on this guy from a really high altitude while he was trying to run to ack.
Might be more difficult if you're in a Typhoon instead of a Spit. But I missed the difference between TrackIR and hat key.
- oldman
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Might be more difficult if you're in a Typhoon instead of a Spit. But I missed the difference between TrackIR and hat key.
- oldman
post a film that can do the same thing while using a hat key rather than trackir.
semp
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My tracker arrived today and first of all it seems very simple to set up. Because your virtual head is no longer fixed in the cockpit it certainly made looking around interesting! - One thing I like to keep an eye on is my remaining ammo and the joystick is usually in the way so the first plus is I can just tilt my head to look around it as you would for real. As the views are no longer incremental and just one smooth pan in any direction you want I can certainly believe it will add to the immersion aspect of the game.
The initial negative is, I can see it will take a little while to settle into the looking around generally as with the view panning being amplified, a slight movement of the head is a big one on the monitor. Of course it has to be because you want to look behind without loosing the view of the monitor. So far this is the only downside and frankly once accustomed to it, I am sure it will be fine.
So what else comes to mind - Freeing up moving the hat switch means you are going to able to do something else at the same time easier such as operating the flaps or whatever. At the moment I have to work on not using the hat switch because I have become trained to use it without thinking!
Bottom line is that I suspect the advantage may only be slight - just as having a joystick with many buttons can be an advantage over one with only a few, but the immersion factor is going to add pleasure in playing. So I would rate this as an add on after you have your full controls set up of stick, throttle and pedals.
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I do have both the "pause" and "re-center" functions mapped to buttons on my controllers, and use them often, especially when making long-range shots.
YMMV
In AH mapping you can re-centre, but I have not found any mapping for "pause" which I can see would be very handy! The only way to do it in AH mapping seems to be to use two buttons, one for "off" and another for "pan" I wonder if this is an area where the AH mapping could be updated also having a trackir map for "snap" seems to defeat the purpose unless this is to work with other applications.
Edit:
As an afterthought could the mapping be changed from "off" to an "on/off" toggle which would be same as pause?
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trackIR gives no advantages at all beside freeing your thumb for other functions. What it does give is configuration headaches.
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In AH mapping you can re-centre, but I have not found any mapping for "pause" which I can see would be very handy! The only way to do it in AH mapping seems to be to use two buttons, one for "off" and another for "pan" I wonder if this is an area where the AH mapping could be updated also having a trackir map for "snap" seems to defeat the purpose unless this is to work with other applications.
Edit:
As an afterthought could the mapping be changed from "off" to an "on/off" toggle which would be same as pause?
In the trackIR software there are "hotkeys". you can use them to set the pause, center, and percision settings to a key on your stick/throttle/keyboard.
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In the trackIR software there are "hotkeys". you can use them to set the pause, center, and percision settings to a key on your stick/throttle/keyboard.
Ah! - Thanks, that's much better. I removed the assigned buttons in AH and set the "pause" in Trackir All good again! I did not realise that Trackir would let me do that for a stick button.
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What it does give is configuration headaches.
What headaches - I have not found any yet. Any initial issues I found have been overcome easily as I learn how to use it.
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Keep your hat views for now. You'll use them in combat by habit for a while. Also notice that with the hat view active TIR just moves your head position.
Set a little more deadband than you think you need so you can move your head a bit and still be centered.
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Keep your hat views for now. You'll use them in combat by habit for a while.
I disagree with this. Keeping hat views is just a crutch.
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I disagree with this. Keeping hat views is just a crutch.
That may be your experience but mine is different.
Keeping views mapped to the hat did not interfere with getting used to TIR, it made an easier transition.
Remapping the hat and hitting it out of habit when you need a rear view in combat could be a problem depending on the new mapping.
One might prefer to establish a new view habit prior to remapping.
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I had my first outing with Trackir yesterday. I ended up going off line to disable my old hat views as I too frequently allowed my reactions to move the hat! With the hat now disabled I find I can focus more on getting the Trackir to work to my best advantage. Setting a dead band is a good idea and I will do that next. Also I have now set a button for precision as this has a similar effect of reducing the pan speed when you get excited near a kill!
All in all not an easy transition after so many years of using a Hat switch, I never knew how much the rest of me moved around until wearing the Trackir proclip. None the less ended the night on about evens of kills to deaths!
It is without doubt a great way to do the views, so I just need to co-ordinate better before I can really make the best of it.
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Blagard, the only view I have deadband set up on the when looking forward - as it helps "snap" back to center for easier shooting. If you want a copy of my profile (or anyone else for that matter), ping me an email addy and I'll get it sent to ya.
Wont fly without my TIR - one of the best things I've bought for flight simming (I dont play any other games lol)
Wurz
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I have just been trying some tweaks and find that setting some dead band makes a huge difference in particular the Trackir X axis which is the sideways movement of your head. It is a natural movement I was making that moved my sights off to one side. Deadband on the pitch and yaw also helps and finally the precision setting dampens down the movement around the centre position. As I settle into using Trackir I can see myself gradually reducing the deadband. All in all I am very pleased with the amount you can tweak the configuration.
One downside for buff pilots is the external view does not work with Trackir (unless I am missing something) so either a hat or keypad needs to be used there as before.
Fortunately I also have an old Belkin Nostromo N50 that I can set up just for buff views and controls.
FLS /Randy1 Thanks for the tips
Edit:
gpwurzel, I agree and it is only the three axis I mentioned that I have any deadband on as they are the only ones that seem to affect my aiming at the moment.
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If you want access to your hat views but you want them off while learning new habits you can copy mode 1 to mode 3, as an example, and have hat views in one mode and nothing mapped to the hat in the other. Set a button to switch modes and use the hat when you need it. This will also help if you find yourself flying with TIR not working.
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Go ahead and save your profile and copy it with a new name or a revision number so that you can experiment with setting with a backup if you go in the wrong direction. Revision numbers give you a history link.
Experiment with steeper slopes on the curves and the speed slider as well.
Watch the 3D heads on the Trackir display for good feedback.
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I still use my views. cant really use trakir in a tank for example. and sometimes it's faster to for example quickly check your six while keeping trak of the con in front of you.
also trakir is not really usable while flying medium or heavy bombers or while gunning. I mean you can use it but now while in f3 mode.
but it's in middle of furball that trakir really gives you the advantage.
semp
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Well, with the tweaks so far I would say the advantage is minor, however the enjoyment of the game is something else! - I am having great fun looking around in a near virtual reality way.
My forward dead bands and the precision setting definitely help. They keep the forward view nice and stable when aiming. If I have a problem it is that I use a button to re-centre that I used to use for "up" views with the hat stick. - end result is that I sometimes press it out of habit then have to quickly re-centre my view again! At least I am very much aware of it.
Of course it does not improve my aim, that will continue to suck!
I can see the idea of using a copy map and mode switch might work but I think it may be better to simply press on with what I have set and tweak it now and then. i.e. use TIR all the time so it becomes a natural reaction with head and buttons, and not give myself excuses to use a hat switch. All in all, I have no regrets in getting it to date for the simple reason it adds pleasure in playing, You know, simply fun! Leaning over to one side and looking behind to check six may even be giving me some sort of a workout! Just moving your head a bit to see around the cockpit framing is great.
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I tried once playing without TrackIR and I couldn't kill much anyone. Then I turned TrackIR on and I killed everyone on MA. That got boring fast so I returned to fly with hat switch.