Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: rpm on February 08, 2015, 11:58:51 PM
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(http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site73/2015/0207/20150207_023928_w%2037%20WWII%20cease%20fire.jpg)
Cherry Rushin reporting (http://www.jacksboronewspapers.com/news/ci_27479202/man-shot-during-reenactment-stable-condition)
Reenactor hit by live fire. All ammo was checked prior and confirmed as crimped blank. A friend who was there (http://combatkevin.blogspot.com/2015/02/fort-richardson-after-action-report.html) (and is a Sandbox combat vet) says he saw 2 live rounds hit and thinks he heard a 3rd.
Unconfirmed report, one Doug Neidermeyer is a person of interest.
(http://www.imfdb.org/images/thumb/7/7c/AnimalH_01.jpg/600px-AnimalH_01.jpg)
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The guy who fired the shots has to know it was him even if it was an accident. There is a very obvious difference between blanks and live rounds. He should go to jail!
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Live Action Roleplay with real guns? Sure that's a great Idea!
Were they shooting a movie or something? Or are they just "military history enthusiasts"?
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"Crimped blanks" can sometimes be dangerous themselves if fired at close range. The crimped part of the casing can sometimes break off and fly downrange causing injury if it hits someone. The report says the man suffered a "deep graze". That's not very specific, but sounds to me like something a blank round could do. I have seen people injured by blank rounds in person, although they were shotgun blanks and they were struck by the wadding. One of my friends got 5 stitches on the right butt cheek from a shotgun wadding.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-B-XGg5yqlI
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In the British army we used BFA's (Blank Firing Adaptors). Big ugly yellow things that stopped anything from leaving the barrel but even then at close range it was still dangerous.
Obviously in a re-enactment you do not want something like that attached to the rifle. Perhaps a conversion to .22 and then crimped rounds. If someone (idiot) wants to sneak live .22 then they would have to be very very deliberate to cause serious damage.
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Jeez. Even when the Allies use blanks the Germans lose. Hope the guy's ok.
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Lol
:rofl
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Yep at close range a blank can be lethal
I remember a fer yrs ago a man was shot during a Gettysburg reinactment how that happened given the type of firearm they used is beyond me
Hopefully this was just a stupid accident, and the guy heals up quick
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Do they keep a list of who showed up with what type of firearm at these events?
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"Crimped blanks" can sometimes be dangerous themselves if fired at close range. The crimped part of the casing can sometimes break off and fly downrange causing injury if it hits someone. The report says the man suffered a "deep graze". That's not very specific, but sounds to me like something a blank round could do. I have seen people injured by blank rounds in person, although they were shotgun blanks and they were struck by the wadding. One of my friends got 5 stitches on the right butt cheek from a shotgun wadding.
yep;
We used to cut firewood during winter training , firing 7.62mm MG blanks from close range in tree branches , the pressure effect blasts wood in toothpicks pieces; I don't know how are made here, i found this photos, this is exactly how our blanks were looking back in "80s; I seen many empty with missing top, sure can cause injuries; `
(http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/9268150058/10353007/acfbf3b.jpg)
The 14.5 mm blank was made diferent ,maybe safer, has some pressed paper cork on top, but the blast was more powerful, makes 10-15 ft. flame , and most steel cartridges cracked after firing;
(http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p162/APFSDS/145mmhg.jpg)
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Any similarity to the death of Brandon Lee? He died at my local hospital, New Hanover Co Regional, while filming "The Crow". The report stated that it was a "bullet fragment".
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From what I remember Brandon lee was killed by a squib load
The crew pulled the bullets from the brass, and dumped the powder out then replaced the bullet. What they forgot to do was pull the primer from the brass. When the gun was fired in an earlier scene ( camera shot wanted to show a "loaded" gun) the bullet got stuck in the barrel due to the primer not having enough power to make the bullet discharge from the gun. Then in the scene he was killed in the gun was loaded with blanks. When discharged the stuck bullet flew out and fragments of it killed him
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When I make blanks for re enactment purposes, I use old brass cases with new primers and powder. I use the green foam stuff they stick flowers in at flower shops. It crumbles pretty much on touch and burns almost instantly. I shot it at a piece of computer paper from 6" away and only got powder burns on the target.
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When my army reserve unit was about to use blanks for the first time. A target was set up by the Lieutenant. He fired several shots at it point blank to show us how dangerous it was. He also told us how someone had killed themselves by placing a blank firing gun to their head because he was under the impression it wouldn't do him any harm. The pressure alone is dangerous. Then he threatened dire consequences to any soldier he caught firing blanks close to another man. We were duly impressed.
But that was all close up. At any distance the effect would be minimal. I couldn't see how any part of a blank would injure someone at the range the re-enactors were using. Besides a veteran at the scene heard live rounds. I think we can safely assume he knows what they sound like.
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Just for the record, I'm not trying to discredit anyone that was there, or what the reports say. I'm just discussing my experience with blanks. But you are correct. I would guess at any range greater than ~20 yards you probably wouldnt even need stitches from a blank.
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Blanks are dangerous in other ways because in some peoples mind they turn the gun into a play thing as happened in the original subject of this thread. In my home town two fools were playing around with a shotgun and blanks, one of them decides to slip in a live round to prank his friend with the kick. Guess how that ended. Remember the news story about the french soldier who sprayed a crowd with what he thought was a magazine of blanks? Bottom line, militant nerds need to take a lesson from sword and sorcery nerds. That is, if you're going to have pretendsy play time don't use real weapons. That is the exact purpose and reason why toy guns are made.
Also, and this is irrelevant to my point, blanks made to be used with blank adapters in military excercises are much weaker than blanks designed to be used without a blank adapter. As the blank has to have sufficient power to cycle the weapon without the aid of a plugged bore. So it is concievable that like the french soldier, the person in the original article of this thread may not have realised he was shooting live rounds until it was too late.
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Never point a real gun at at anything you do not want to shoot. It's the most basic gun safety rule there is. Guns used in reenactments should be converted to blank firing only, or use replicas.
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Could have been anything. Some guy "accidentally" loading up his live ammo that was still in the bottom of his ammo pouch, a "blank" that had been loaded with a bullet hidden inside the crimp, or an outside player who saw the re-enactment and decided to throw some live rounds into the mix (aka the grassy knoll theory). The surrounding brush visible in the picture would make this possible...
When I was growing up, our school was going to take a class trip to see the play "of mice and men". Unfortunately one of the lead actors got killed on stage when a stand-in doing the "shoot the guy in the head" scene pointed the gun point blank at his head instead of just to the side. To their credit the troupe postponed a few performances and then the show went on a few weeks later, so we got to see the play a month or two later than originally planned.