Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Hajo on February 11, 2015, 11:35:06 PM
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I remember seeing this movie for the first time when I was 6 years old. That would have been the year 1956. It didn't hurt to have
what I consider to be the most beautiful four engine aircraft ever as the subject. My brother and I were airplane nuts at an early age. You see this
was at the height of the cold war. Youngstown Ohio being a huge steel making area was protected by an Air Force Base which had F-84,
F86, up to F-102 and F-106s' as time progressed. They also had "Flying Boxcars" and Commercial Airlines such as Eastern and Capitol Airlines
flying in as scheduled. Prop Airliners then no jets. Our Father would take us to the airport just to see the aircraft land and takeoff. Something my Brother and I will never forget.
Back to the Movie. IMHO it is one of two of the finest Movies based on the WWII air battle in Europe. It gave us all a more personal view on
what the crew of these bombers experienced at that time. (realize at this time most young men in the services were never more then 20 miles
from their homes usually before being trained and shipped over seas.)
The aircraft in the film were from original footage for the most part. Great to see real 109s, 110s' , FW190s' and P47s'.
So IMHO 12 O'clock High ranks #1, with Battle of Britain (which had a love story and more flash and dazzle to attract viewers) as a close #2.
Was great to see it again last night.
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Great film. Greg Peck gave a powerful performance in the early part of his early in his career for Twelve O'Clock High.
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ahead of its time
http://youtu.be/3BDbajGm9Lg?t=59m32s
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It is an excellent movie.
Other WWII movies of its caliber, in my opinion:
A Bridge Too Far
Das Boot
Midway
30 Seconds Over Tokyo
Theirs is the Glory
The Best Years of Our Lives
Downfall
Saving Private Ryan
Grave of the Fireflies
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My favorite WWII era movie is Pasqualino Settebellezze or the Seven Beauties. Written and directed by Lina Wertmüller in 1975, it tells the story of the adventures of a Pasqualino Frafuso who is a small time hustler in Mussolini’s Italy and later in war torn Germany.
While it is not really a “war” movie, through two somewhat parallel stories in Italy and Germany you get a comparison of the two “spirits” of fascism in those two countries and a sense of the ethos that defined their era.
At the end of the movie you are left wondering if Pasqualino Frafuso has learned the right lesson from all of his adventures. :old:
The movie was made in Italian. It is available with English dubbing. A number of critics have pointed out the English dubbed version is better than the original Italian. This is especially true of the first scene.
I do not believe that the movie is available on a streaming service, but it was available on Netflix’s DVD service.
Here is the Italian version of the first scene, (English versions have been taken down).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mx2GoEV5yf0
Here is a transcript of the poem, I like these lines. :rock
“The ones who are always standing at the bar.
The ones who are always in Switzerland.
The ones who started early, haven't arrived, and don't know they're not going to. Oh yeah.”
Again, try to watch this with the English sound track: :cool:
The ones who don't enjoy themselves even when they laugh. Oh yeah.
The ones who worship the corporate image not knowing that they work for someone else. Oh yeah.
The ones who should have been shot in the cradle. Pow! Oh yeah.
The ones who say, "Follow me to success, but kill me if I fail," so to speak. Oh yeah.
The ones who say, "We Italians are the greatest he-men on earth." Oh yeah.
The ones who are from Rome.
The ones who say, "That's for me."
The ones who say, "You know what I mean?" Oh yeah.
The ones who vote for the right because they're fed up with strikes. Oh yeah.
The ones who vote blank ballot in order not to get dirty. Oh yeah.
The ones who never get involved with politics. Oh yeah.
The ones who say, "Be calm ... calm."
The ones who still support the king.
The ones who say, "Yes, sir." Oh yeah.
The ones who make love standing in their boots and imagine they're in a luxurious bed.
The ones who believe Christ is Santa Claus as a young man. Oh yeah.
The ones who say, "Oh what the hell."
The ones who were there.
The ones who believe in everything ... even in God.
The ones who listen to the national anthem. Oh yeah.
The ones who love their country.
The ones who keep going, just to see how it will end. Oh yeah.
The ones who are in garbage up to here. Oh yeah.
The ones who sleep soundly, even with cancer. Oh, yeah.
The ones who even now don't believe the world is round. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
The ones who are afraid of flying. Oh yeah.
The ones who've never had a fatal accident. Oh yeah. The ones who've had one.
The ones who at a certain point in their lives create a secret weapon: Christ. Oh yeah.
The ones who are always standing at the bar.
The ones who are always in Switzerland.
The ones who started early, haven't arrived, and don't know they're not going to. Oh yeah.
The ones who lose wars by the skin of their teeth.
The ones who say, "Everything is wrong here."
The ones who say, "Now let's all have a good laugh." Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
Also this scene always brings a smile:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDsJ0hwRTxc
And finally, IMO one of the best examples of a film director working magic with a camera and actors acting:
(Sentencing scene in an Italian court).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePL_7WAma_g
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Just by chance watched Fury and 12 O'clock High yesterday. 12 O'clock high was the better movie albeit I did like Fury.
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Forgot to mention how great Dean Jagger was as Harvey Stovall. He won Best Supporting Actor that for performance.
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Agreed on 12o'clock High as one of the best, if not the best.
Any news on Hanks and Spielberg's HBO project on the Mighty Eighth?
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"Battleground" still beats em all for war movies. Only one besides "Best Years of our Lives" to get my wife to sit down and watch
To me "Twelve O'Clock High!" is a good one but it departed from the book in many ways which makes it harder to watch for me.
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To me "Twelve O'Clock High!" is a good one but it departed from the book in many ways which makes it harder to watch for me.
I've thought of that quite a lot. The screenplay for the film was written by the book's authors, so I assume they knew what they were doing. The themes of the book and movie were different. The book stresses the need for firmness and single-minded dedication. The movie focuses on the human impact of that need. For example, consider the difference between the book's Davenport and flight surgeon, and the way they're portrayed in the movie.
For many years, like Dan, I didn't like the film. I've grown accustomed to it; it's simply a different story with the same title as my favorite book.
On the plus side, it's probably Peck's best acting, it has real B-17s (can you imagine them bellying-in one of them now?) and, as mentioned above, Dean Jagger is exactly what Harvey Stovall is supposed to be.
- oldman
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Bernie Lay, who wrote the book and screenplay along with Sy Bartlett had a previous movie with B-17s to his credit. If you want to see some real early pre-war 17s track down a copy of "I Wanted Wings"
Much of 12 O'Clock High is based on actual events. General Savage is based on General Frank Armstrong, who turned around the 306th BG. 306 x 3 = 918th BG. Two different Medal of Honor winning events occur in "Jesse's" plane. Jesse's action in that Belly Landing is reference to "Red" Morgan who got the MOH for one hand flying his 17 back while holding off the dying struggle of his pilot with the other arm. On that same flight the top turret gunner had his arm blown off and the crew ended up bailing him out in hopes the Germans would find and save him. That gunner did survive.
The bombardier dying over his bombsite is based on Jack Mathies who got the MOH for crawling back to his bombsite and dropping the bombs before dying. He only got "Bombs...." out before collapsing. Another crewman called the "away!"
Red Morgan was shot down and made a POW on another flight. There is another MOH event that is used in the book but not the movie if memory serves.
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Much of 12 O'Clock High is based on actual events.
I went and looked up the movie on Netflix. For some reason I had never seen it. (No I am not a kid, I remember when all you had was black and white TV).
I thought that the movie was OK, but I had some questions and I'm wondering if you guys had any thoughts.
I was surprised to see General Savage go on so many missions. How often did generals go on missions in WWII? (I think I once saw a film which showed Carl Spatz returning from a mission, but I wasn't sure if I was watching a staged MacArthur type thing or not).
Were there cases of pilots on mass requesting transferees during WWII?
During WWII would an Inspector General actually investigate a base commander unless he had strong information about fraud, waste or abuse? Or I guess another way of asking the question is, what was the role of the Inspector General in operational matters during WWII?
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There is a movie called "Fortress" about a B-17 crew in 1943, flying out of North Africa to attack Sicily and later on Rome.
I would add that one to list.
And the "The Big Red One - The Reconstruction".
This was done by his Sam Fuller's friends. It has almost 45 minutes of editted film put back into the movie.
It gives more depth to Schroder's character. Much better than the castrated studio release.
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While I appreciate 12 O clock high, I don't like movies from this time period. So much of the dialog is stupid and the acting tends to be over the top.
There seems to be a tendency to think every thing that is old is classic and wonderful while everything new sucks.
I really doubt that the corny, goofy acting in Sands of Iwo Jima is more realistic than that in The Pacific.
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Keep in mind every box office orientated movie exaggerates real life to hold our attention.
12O'clock was to show there is a big difference between leadership and commanding by "my good buddy" system.