Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: MrRiplEy[H] on February 13, 2015, 04:22:25 AM
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As promised I made a mini tutorial on my latest ultra-cheap Pentium G3528 build! The whole upgrade cost me only 260 bucks.
I replaced an aging Core2Duo system with a Haswell based Pentium G-series. Reused graphics card, PSU, case etc. Overall you can get this system for 700ish dollars (all new from the shop that is).
My build: Asus Z97-pro gamer + Corsair Vengeange 8Gb combo (was on offer for 155 bucks)
XFX black 450W PSU
Pentium G3258 with stock cooler
GTX660
Many hdd:s and the Intel 520 256Gb SSD
Preface: Always - ALWAYS ground yourself to the metal of the computer case before you install any part or touch any part inside the computer. Static electricity kills (components)! Preferably use an anti-static wristband.
Step 1: Pick up the stuff from the post:
(http://i.imgur.com/auA7VUl.jpg)
Step 2: Prepare installation liquids for the build:
(http://i.imgur.com/fjMU9oO.jpg)
Step 3: Unpack the stuff and start building.
Install the power supply and the motherboard to the case - keep the CPU socket cover on. Install case power switch, reset, hdd led etc. leads to the motherboard.
(http://i.imgur.com/Sq4gBli.jpg)
Don't forget thermal paste!
(http://i.imgur.com/SrKfTeu.jpg)
Install the CPU and carefully close the lid - make sure you set it the right way so that the holes align with the slots:
(http://i.imgur.com/0KaAbhu.jpg)
Next comes the CPU cooler. Clean up the thermal pad with acetone if you use thermal paste. If you're real cheap you can install the cooler just like it is without paste, the pad works ok.
Boxed cooler straight off the box:
(http://i.imgur.com/YHOBEvs.jpg)
A bit of acetone and paper:
(http://i.imgur.com/D8UlBES.jpg)
Clean as a whistle!
(http://i.imgur.com/H0Rew1o.jpg)
Next add a dab of thermal paste on the cpu:
(http://i.imgur.com/6sULeGv.jpg)
Install the cooler by aligning the 4 plastic clips to matching holes in the motherboard. Press firmly untill they click.
(http://i.imgur.com/h5lIwUc.jpg)
Remove the cooler by turning each black plastic clip anti-clockwise and pull it off.
Check that the paste covers the whole contact surface:
(http://i.imgur.com/YS6qGfp.jpg)
Looks good!
Re-seat the cooler and plug in the fan to the 'cpu fan' slot of the motherboard.
Next comes the memory. Consult your owners manual on correct ram installation, check that the ram slot aligns correctly to the ram stick. Slide the ram in and push firmly untill the little plastic clips click:
(http://i.imgur.com/kqYovIL.jpg)
Next plug in SATA cables. Every budget build of coures needs the SSD drive, right? :D
(http://i.imgur.com/83BdylD.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/HPjzC6B.jpg)
Next you can install the graphics card, use the top PCI-E slot. Slide the card in carefully, do not touch the copper parts on the bottom of the card! The card slides right in and clicks. Screw it in and attach the PCI-E power cables.
At this stage you can also connect the 24-pin motherboard power plug (right from the ram sticks) and the 4-8 pin Auxiliary 12V power pin (next to the CPU on top left):
(http://i.imgur.com/y3ncyvS.jpg)
Install any extra fans you like, make sure they blow to the direction you need them to - check the markings on the side and plug the fans to the fan headers marked on the motherboard:
(http://i.imgur.com/ssmWlXK.jpg)
Now the system is ready for your first boot. Switch on the power supply and press the power button.
What do you know? It booted straight up! I must have got lucky!
Next enter the UEFI bios and configure the settings - I was lazy and just clicked automatic overclocking which boosted the G3258 from 3.2Ghz to 4.3Ghz with one press of a button.
(http://i.imgur.com/HnOEAM5.jpg)
Reboot later the system loaded my Fedora linux up:
(http://i.imgur.com/UTJ2C9A.jpg)
Next I rebooted again, plugged in my USB3 stick and installed Windows 10 release preview (cheap as free). Here already downloading Battlefield 3 for testing:
(http://i.imgur.com/vZx588u.jpg)
And that's it folks!
First impressions of the machine are really positive. It's quiet, snappy and fast (no doubt due to the SSD) and game performance is flawless. Smooth as butter.
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Awesome thanks for sharing.
Can we please sticky this
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One thing I see that Ripley didn't mention is to use a non fiber type of cloth so as not to leave fibers when cleaning the old thermal paste off. The best thing, I use personally, is a qtip and acetone. You can also use nail ploish remover but you are better to use acetone as it doesnt leave a residue.
LawnDart
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One thing I see that Ripley didn't mention is to use a non fiber type of cloth so as not to leave fibers when cleaning the old thermal paste off. The best thing, I use personally, is a qtip and acetone. You can also use nail ploish remover but you are better to use acetone as it doesnt leave a residue.
LawnDart
A Coffee filter works very well too.
Coogan
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A Coffee filter works very well too.
Coogan
Agree! :aok
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Is it wise to pull the cooler off to check paste spread? Some guides state that doing so and replacing without cleaning and reapplying can introduce air-pockets and reduce heat-transfer efficiency.
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Is it wise to pull the cooler off to check paste spread? Some guides state that doing so and replacing without cleaning and reapplying can introduce air-pockets and reduce heat-transfer efficiency.
That may be true but this is a beginner build and cheap components. If your temperatures stay normal you don't need to worry about air pockets. That stuff is for the extreme overclockers. Technically speaking I shouldn't have used the automatic overclocking either but that will guaranteed give you a better result if you're a first timer builder.
The most important thing is that if you're installing a CPU for the first time you need to check that you put enough paste (and not too much).
Oh and the quality of whisky is also essential. Do not build while drunk on a cheap brand! :P
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Great post, MrRipley!
I am interested on your thoughts regarding the Win 10 pre release ( how it measures up to 7, 8.1 etc ) <--- can take this to pm actually
you picked some good drink and I liked that you showed the fan direction/flow pic! a lot of people put their fans in backwards before they figure that one out, hehe
nice desktop background btw!
great thread.....
TC
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I am interested on your thoughts regarding the Win 10 pre release ( how it measures up to 7, 8.1 etc ) <--- can take this to pm actually
Win10 is showing great promise but it's still just a preview. I definitely like it already better than 8.1. I'm going to use it in my budget gaming box untill it expires and then I have a feeling I'll switch to it. DX12 and all.
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Win10 is showing great promise but it's still just a preview. I definitely like it already better than 8.1. I'm going to use it in my budget gaming box untill it expires and then I have a feeling I'll switch to it. DX12 and all.
I do not know how you might separate these different forums, but I feel you do the same as me.........and with that said! your post kind of speak volumes to me, even if others do not quite see it yet!
TY for your post/reply to me
TC
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Been using Win10 for a little while now myself and I love it. I think it falls right in line with the early versions of Win7 as far as how MS tends to screw the pooch every other OS release.
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As promised I made a mini tutorial on my latest ultra-cheap Pentium G3528 build! The whole upgrade cost me only 260 bucks.
I replaced an aging Core2Duo system with a Haswell based Pentium G-series. Reused graphics card, PSU, case etc. Overall you can get this system for 700ish dollars (all new from the shop that is).
My build: Asus Z97-pro gamer + Corsair Vengeange 8Gb combo (was on offer for 155 bucks)
XFX black 450W PSU
Pentium G3258 with stock cooler
GTX660
Many hdd:s and the Intel 520 256Gb SSD
Preface: Always - ALWAYS ground yourself to the metal of the computer case before you install any part or touch any part inside the computer. Static electricity kills (components)! Preferably use an anti-static wristband.
Step 1: Pick up the stuff from the post:
(http://i.imgur.com/auA7VUl.jpg)
Step 2: Prepare installation liquids for the build:
(http://i.imgur.com/fjMU9oO.jpg)
Step 3: Unpack the stuff and start building.
Install the power supply and the motherboard to the case - keep the CPU socket cover on. Install case power switch, reset, hdd led etc. leads to the motherboard.
(http://i.imgur.com/Sq4gBli.jpg)
Don't forget thermal paste!
(http://i.imgur.com/SrKfTeu.jpg)
Install the CPU and carefully close the lid - make sure you set it the right way so that the holes align with the slots:
(http://i.imgur.com/0KaAbhu.jpg)
Next comes the CPU cooler. Clean up the thermal pad with acetone if you use thermal paste. If you're real cheap you can install the cooler just like it is without paste, the pad works ok.
Boxed cooler straight off the box:
(http://i.imgur.com/YHOBEvs.jpg)
A bit of acetone and paper:
(http://i.imgur.com/D8UlBES.jpg)
Clean as a whistle!
(http://i.imgur.com/H0Rew1o.jpg)
Next add a dab of thermal paste on the cpu:
(http://i.imgur.com/6sULeGv.jpg)
Install the cooler by aligning the 4 plastic clips to matching holes in the motherboard. Press firmly untill they click.
(http://i.imgur.com/h5lIwUc.jpg)
Remove the cooler by turning each black plastic clip anti-clockwise and pull it off.
Check that the paste covers the whole contact surface:
(http://i.imgur.com/YS6qGfp.jpg)
Looks good!
Re-seat the cooler and plug in the fan to the 'cpu fan' slot of the motherboard.
Next comes the memory. Consult your owners manual on correct ram installation, check that the ram slot aligns correctly to the ram stick. Slide the ram in and push firmly untill the little plastic clips click:
(http://i.imgur.com/kqYovIL.jpg)
Next plug in SATA cables. Every budget build of coures needs the SSD drive, right? :D
(http://i.imgur.com/83BdylD.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/HPjzC6B.jpg)
Next you can install the graphics card, use the top PCI-E slot. Slide the card in carefully, do not touch the copper parts on the bottom of the card! The card slides right in and clicks. Screw it in and attach the PCI-E power cables.
At this stage you can also connect the 24-pin motherboard power plug (right from the ram sticks) and the 4-8 pin Auxiliary 12V power pin (next to the CPU on top left):
(http://i.imgur.com/y3ncyvS.jpg)
Install any extra fans you like, make sure they blow to the direction you need them to - check the markings on the side and plug the fans to the fan headers marked on the motherboard:
(http://i.imgur.com/ssmWlXK.jpg)
Now the system is ready for your first boot. Switch on the power supply and press the power button.
What do you know? It booted straight up! I must have got lucky!
Next enter the UEFI bios and configure the settings - I was lazy and just clicked automatic overclocking which boosted the G3258 from 3.2Ghz to 4.3Ghz with one press of a button.
(http://i.imgur.com/HnOEAM5.jpg)
Reboot later the system loaded my Fedora linux up:
(http://i.imgur.com/UTJ2C9A.jpg)
Next I rebooted again, plugged in my USB3 stick and installed Windows 10 release preview (cheap as free). Here already downloading Battlefield 3 for testing:
(http://i.imgur.com/vZx588u.jpg)
And that's it folks!
First impressions of the machine are really positive. It's quiet, snappy and fast (no doubt due to the SSD) and game performance is flawless. Smooth as butter.
You do understand the the computer case is not ground unless its directly connected to ground. That is most cases have rubber feet and are by no means a low resistance path to ground. What you need to do is either install the PSU and plug it in with the switch off (the 3rd prong mains is a direct path to ground and is connected to the metal shell of the PSU and thus the case) or plug the antistatic rest strap into the 3rd prong of an outlet.
TL;DR: The computer case is not ground unless directly to connected to ground, if not its floating just like everything else.
Also,
Check that the paste covers the whole contact surface:
(http://i.imgur.com/YS6qGfp.jpg)
Looks good!
Re-seat the cooler and plug in the fan to the 'cpu fan' slot of the motherboard.
That is a very bad idea, once you lift the heatsink off the CPU the thermal paste will get air pockets inside of it, put a dot in the center and install, if you have to pull the cooler off again you MUST reapply thermal paste or you will have a very hot CPU.
http://forums.evga.com/Do-you-have-to-reapply-Thermal-Paste-each-time-you-take-the-heat-sink-off-the-CPU-m1811437.aspx
EDIT: I just saw your post about how it won't mater for a beginner but it will, those stock heatsinks are really terrible and need all the help they can get.
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You do understand the the computer case is not ground unless its directly connected to ground.
Touching the case will negate any possible potential difference your body and the case has so you won't zap the components inside. It doesn't need to be grounded.
Also,
That is a very bad idea, once you lift the heatsink off the CPU the thermal paste will get air pockets inside of it, put a dot in the center and install, if you have to pull the cooler off again you MUST reapply thermal paste or you will have a very hot CPU.
I didn't reapply the paste after taking the pictures. The CPU is overclocked to 4.3Ghz with the stock cooler and I have zero problems with heat. So it doesn't seem to be a real world issue. The G-series CPU is a stripped down Haswell so it produces very little heat. The stock cooler is enough unless you push extreme voltages and go beyond 4.3Ghz. G3258 has a max TDP of only 53 watts!
As it is now I get smooth gaming experience from BF3, CS GO etc. games I play. This computer is going to my daughter who plays mainly toontown online etc. non first person shooters, it was more of an experiment on what it can do for extremely low cost. It is really surprising what it can do for the price.
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Touching the case will negate any possible potential difference your body and the case has so you won't zap the components inside. It doesn't need to be grounded.
I didn't reapply the paste after taking the pictures. The CPU is overclocked to 4.3Ghz with the stock cooler and I have zero problems with heat. So it doesn't seem to be a real world issue. The G-series CPU is a stripped down Haswell so it produces very little heat. The stock cooler is enough unless you push extreme voltages and go beyond 4.3Ghz. G3258 has a max TDP of only 53 watts!
As it is now I get smooth gaming experience from BF3, CS GO etc. games I play. This computer is going to my daughter who plays mainly toontown online etc. non first person shooters, it was more of an experiment on what it can do for extremely low cost. It is really surprising what it can do for the price.
But their is no return loop, its a fundamental concept in electricity. If the case is not grounded to earth ground (i.e. mains ground) then it is considered "floating". It doesn't actually have a voltage. With that in mind lets say your body is charged to 20kV (ballpark estimate voltage for static electricity) and you touch the case that is not directly connected to ground, nothing at all will happen because current can't flow anywhere, for there to be a change in voltage there needs to be some change in current (ohms law V=IR, I is current and R is resistance, if either are 0 then the voltage is 0)
Now the case itself is not a very good capacitor, that is, it won't hold ANY charge. While your body is has a capacitance of around 1pF (this is the value used in touchscreens to figure out when you touch them). Mean while the case has essentially no capacitance (everything actually has some capacitance, its just so small its not noticeable, we are talking attofarads here or 10^-18). In short the case will not hold ANY CHARGE and you can't simply make it equal to the charge in your body by touching it.
With the case floating (that is, not grounded)there is so much resistance between it and you that no current will flow and because its not a capacitor it will not hold any charge at all. The circuit diagram would look like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/CRlRLIS.png)
Where as if you properly ground yourself:
(http://i.imgur.com/3eQw6sl.png)
You may think I'm being a bit anal about this but it is people's hard earned money and while its not 100% that if you don't ground your case when working on your computer you will break something, it is a higher chance than 0 chance.
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But their is no return loop, its a fundamental concept in electricity. If the case is not grounded to earth ground (i.e. mains ground) then it is considered "floating". It doesn't actually have a voltage. With that in mind lets say your body is charged to 20kV (ballpark estimate voltage for static electricity) and you touch the case that is not directly connected to ground, nothing at all will happen because current can't flow anywhere, for there to be a change in voltage there needs to be some change in current (ohms law V=IR, I is current and R is resistance, if either are 0 then the voltage is 0)
Now the case itself is not a very good capacitor, that is, it won't hold ANY charge. While your body is has a capacitance of around 1pF (this is the value used in touchscreens to figure out when you touch them). Mean while the case has essentially no capacitance (everything actually has some capacitance, its just so small its not noticeable, we are talking attofarads here or 10^-18). In short the case will not hold ANY CHARGE and you can't simply make it equal to the charge in your body by touching it.
With the case floating (that is, not grounded)there is so much resistance between it and you that no current will flow and because its not a capacitor it will not hold any charge at all. The circuit diagram would look like this:
(http://i.imgur.com/CRlRLIS.png)
Where as if you properly ground yourself:
(http://i.imgur.com/3eQw6sl.png)
You may think I'm being a bit anal about this but it is people's hard earned money and while its not 100% that if you don't ground your case when working on your computer you will break something, it is a higher chance than 0 chance.
By your own explanation no ESD can occur since the case is floating. If it's not floating, touching the case will even up the potential, especially when the case is usually laying on it's side while it's being assembled. So you see you're making up problems and certainly not helping this thread. You're creating unnecessary fears for people who are thinking about making their first own build. Now you're talking about the need to have special ESD gear. What next? An electron microscope to check heatsink surfaces?
The instructions I gave are valid. I've done literally dozens of builds with no problems and people can SAVE literally hundreds of dollars of their hard earned money by breaking out of their fear and building their own.
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After building about a dozen rigs myself, I have to agree with ripley on this one. But I did do something different, I used a 12 dollar rubber mat that I used plus an antistatic wrist band. If you are really worried about it you can also run a jumper, 2 alligator clips attached to a 4 ft section of 12 guage wire attached to a nail in the wall.
Like I have said, I have built a dozen rigs and have had zero problems. Waystin2, dkff49, and a few others can attest to their rigs that I have built for them.
Just remember, an ounce of prevention saves a pound of problems.
Lawndart
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By your own explanation no ESD can occur since the case is floating. If it's not floating, touching the case will even up the potential, especially when the case is usually laying on it's side while it's being assembled. So you see you're making up problems and certainly not helping this thread. You're creating unnecessary fears for people who are thinking about making their first own build. Now you're talking about the need to have special ESD gear. What next? An electron microscope to check heatsink surfaces?
The instructions I gave are valid. I've done literally dozens of builds with no problems and people can SAVE literally hundreds of dollars of their hard earned money by breaking out of their fear and building their own.
Having the case floating or not does not have anything to do with ESD, lets say at 20kv there is no ESD and all your stuff is safe, touching the case also doesn't even up the voltage as I have said before because its not a capacitor. How ever if you have enough charge in your body to make a spark fly through the air then you can get ESD in a floating case because air is a better insulator than rubber. The whole point of grounding yourself is to discharge all residual voltage in your body before it can happen.
Let me put it this way, ESD is essentially very small scale lightning, there is a build up of electricity until a spark can fly through an insulator, in this case air.
How is it more gear? its literally just installing your power supply FIRST with it plugged in and switched off in the back or having a anti static rest strap that you can get for a 1.99$
http://superuser.com/questions/262641/grounding-yourself-before-while-you-are-building-a-computer
look at the last post in that thread to see how antistatic mats work.
After building about a dozen rigs myself, I have to agree with ripley on this one. But I did do something different, I used a 12 dollar rubber mat that I used plus an antistatic wrist band. If you are really worried about it you can also run a jumper, 2 alligator clips attached to a 4 ft section of 12 guage wire attached to a nail in the wall.
Like I have said, I have built a dozen rigs and have had zero problems. Waystin2, dkff49, and a few others can attest to their rigs that I have built for them.
Just remember, an ounce of prevention saves a pound of problems.
Lawndart
And by using the anti static rubber mat you are preventing the build up of charge in the first place. Also if the nail in the wall is earth grounded then its also never allowing any voltage to build up inside your body.
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Ok so now you've successfully scared any aspiring home builder away from the task. Well done. I'm out.
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Ok so now you've successfully scared any aspiring home builder away from the task. Well done. I'm out.
Can you honestly re read what I said, specifically the part where i say "Install the PSU first and plug it so the case is grounded" because that is literally all you need to do. Perhaps that is a little complicated, however I can't comment on that.
Do you just leave when anyone counters your argument or provides and facts in the form of external links? I'm sorry, I was just trying to inform people how to handle there expensive computer parts that they have spent their hard earned money on.
Lets go over this again,
step 1: Install power supply (don't connect anything just screw it into the case)
step 2: Plug it in
Congratulations, you have now grounded your case and you can now safely handle all those delicate components by paying the low price of exactly 0$! Remember to touch the case about every 5 minutes or so to discharge any potential static electricity.
Method number 2:
step 1: Buy an anti static wrist strap
step 2: Connect it to any metal part of the case
Congratulations, you have now made the case the same potential as you just by connecting a wrist strap to it! The reason this works and not just touching an ungrounded case is because the wrist strap is always touching you and is always connected to the case, so the case doesn't have to hold any charge and thus is always connected to you and has the same potential.
And if somehow that was all too complicated here is a great video on how to build a PC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbDiSMQ_L_k
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Can you honestly re read what I said, specifically the part where i say "Install the PSU first and plug it so the case is grounded" because that is literally all you need to do. Perhaps that is a little complicated, however I can't comment on that.
Do you just leave when anyone counters your argument or provides and facts in the form of external links? I'm sorry, I was just trying to inform people how to handle there expensive computer parts that they have spent their hard earned money on.
Lets go over this again,
step 1: Install power supply (don't connect anything just screw it into the case)
step 2: Plug it in
Congratulations, you have now grounded your case and you can now safely handle all those delicate components by paying the low price of exactly 0$! Remember to touch the case about every 5 minutes or so to discharge any potential static electricity.
Method number 2:
step 1: Buy an anti static wrist strap
step 2: Connect it to any metal part of the case
Congratulations, you have now made the case the same potential as you just by connecting a wrist strap to it! The reason this works and not just touching an ungrounded case is because the wrist strap is always touching you and is always connected to the case, so the case doesn't have to hold any charge and thus is always connected to you and has the same potential.
And if somehow that was all too complicated here is a great video on how to build a PC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbDiSMQ_L_k
The wrist wrap doesn't differ in any way from holding the case with your left hand while installing the component with your right. But all this complication now FOR SURE put off the timid users that perhaps otherwise would have had the courage to try an install themselves.
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The wrist wrap doesn't differ in any way from holding the case with your left hand while installing the component with your right. But all this complication now FOR SURE put off the timid users that perhaps otherwise would have had the courage to try an install themselves.
So you're going to install say, a motherboard one handed? I would like to see that!
Also if someone is discouraged that easy then they shouldn't have attempted in the first place. The fact remains what you said in your first post was incorrect and could have lead to people destroying the parts, and what is more discouraging? Reading about how not to break your stuff or actually breaking it? Its important with first time builders to understand how to make sure they don't blow up there components.
Why am I so passionate about this? Because I've destroyed a motherboard by not properly grounding myself and thinking that just touching the case that isn't grounded would be ok, needless to say when I felt the static shock a great deal of money was lost (and being 13 at the time of that incident, yes 150$ is quite of bit of money). So yes Ripley, better discourage the would be builder than have him waste 50, 100, maybe even 500 dollars.
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So you're going to install say, a motherboard one handed? I would like to see that!
Very simple. You need to contact the case only for the moment your component touches the case for the first time. This ensures that if any electricity is going to flow anywhere it's going to flow through your hand.
Your rant about timid people shouldn't be attempting to self build in the first place is pretty arrogant and egoist. You're ready to condemn them to an eternal cycle of buying branded computers and paying extra for nothing.
If you managed to fry your motherboard it's nothing but a classic case of bad luck. In all my history of doing self builds I've never used any ESD safety gear and I've never managed to kill a component so far. If your case is not grounded the electricity has nowhere to go. If your case is grounded, touching the case will dissipate any potential your body may have.
Actually by grounding your case you create the environment needed for ESD. If your PSU is plugged to the wall, any static electricity in your body is going to be instantly drained on first contact with the case. That is when you kill your components. If there's no ground available the static won't zap anything since the current literally has nowhere to go.
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But you can't just touch the case, its not a capacitor, it can't hold a charge. Also lets say you're charged up to 5kv through and you're messing with your PC. Nothing will happen because 5kv is not enough spark to create and air gap. If your PC is grounded you can touch the case and instantly discharge all of this. But if you don't discharge this and it keeps growing higher and higher until about 25kv-30kv when you create a spark through the air. Now lets get something out of the way, there doesn't need to be a direct path to ground to cause current to flow (this is actually called self capacitance and is essentially a small capacitance between everything and ground, like I said, its very small but still there) as thus, you will be putting 25kV or so across ICs, transistors, and capacitors all of which have a voltage tolerance (and this is around 1.5v for a CPU or 12v for a capacitor onboard). Putting that much voltage accrossed them breaks down the thin electrolite layer in capacitors and even smaller oxide layer in MOSFETs which will destroy them.
If you feel I am wrong, here is an engineering discussion board topic on the same thing (I am not the thread starter, user name on said board is oddball)
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/static-electricity-do-you-need-a-path-to-ground/
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But you can't just touch the case, its not a capacitor, it can't hold a charge. Also lets say you're charged up to 5kv through and you're messing with your PC. Nothing will happen because 5kv is not enough spark to create and air gap. If your PC is grounded you can touch the case and instantly discharge all of this. But if you don't discharge this and it keeps growing higher and higher until about 25kv-30kv when you create a spark through the air. Now lets get something out of the way, there doesn't need to be a direct path to ground to cause current to flow (this is actually called self capacitance and is essentially a small capacitance between everything and ground, like I said, its very small but still there) as thus, you will be putting 25kV or so across ICs, transistors, and capacitors all of which have a voltage tolerance (and this is around 1.5v for a CPU or 12v for a capacitor onboard). Putting that much voltage accrossed them breaks down the thin electrolite layer in capacitors and even smaller oxide layer in MOSFETs which will destroy them.
If you feel I am wrong, here is an engineering discussion board topic on the same thing (I am not the thread starter, user name on said board is oddball)
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/static-electricity-do-you-need-a-path-to-ground/ (http://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/static-electricity-do-you-need-a-path-to-ground/)
If touching the case does nothing, then your wrist band does nothing either. You need to have an ESD mat connected to ground and the wrist band must be connected to it to ground you. So with the wrist band you've done nothing but bought yourself a false sense of confidence.
I have handled literally hundreds of components with no problems in the past. This is why I can't agree with your worries. The only time I'd be worried is if your house has extremely low air humidity, you wear extremely electric (plastic or wool) clothes or you've just finished stroking your cat in your lap :D Some vinyl flooring also create very nasty voltages. One of my customers has a meeting room that creates voltages high enough to create loud snaps and arcs whenever I touch a (charging) laptop in the room. Even my anti static work shoes did nothing to prevent this, probably due to the whole flooring being the problem.
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1: The wrist strap is ALWAYS connected to the case, even though you're not discharging the static you're making the ground plane the same potential.
2: ESD mats are to prevent electrostatic build up, not stop it from discharging. To stop discharges you need a faraday cage, aka anti static bag that all of your parts come out of the box with.
Its very possible you could work on PCs all your life and with no safety for ESD and not damage one part. Its also possible to go in a swimming pool during a lightning storm and never get hit by lightning.
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also here is a quote from a thread a linked.
'In the early days when things were really sensitive to static, all of this was mandatory work practice. Now, most circuitry contained on boards has some anti-static protection built in. It's a good idea to not to challenge Murphy. The first static zap will probably not destroy a device, nor maybe the second one, but it can weaken components to cause future mysterious failures, something you don't need.
Following these practices, I've yet to zap something into oblivion.'
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also here is a quote from a thread a linked.
'In the early days when things were really sensitive to static, all of this was mandatory work practice. Now, most circuitry contained on boards has some anti-static protection built in. It's a good idea to not to challenge Murphy. The first static zap will probably not destroy a device, nor maybe the second one, but it can weaken components to cause future mysterious failures, something you don't need.
Following these practices, I've yet to zap something into oblivion.'
If you seriously think that any home builder is going to invest in ESD mats etc. you're way off the mark. 99% of the home builders never use any ESD gear and they manage to do their builds just fine. Some people get seriously unlucky, some win in lottery.
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Ripley I see what OLDS is saying about plugging it in ..he is using the ground from the 3 prong to act as a anti static wrist strap.. which in theory makes sense but I still will go the route of using a 12 dollar floor mat to build on.. then i plug in all connections to power starting with the 24 pin them 8 pin then vid card ..so on so forth. I always plug in the HD last.. then plug in the PSU to the wall outlet.
I think you and I have the same building sense and I am glad you posted this for the novice builders. I learned from trial and error, with alot of error.
LawnDart
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Ripley, that quote I posted literally says the opposite of what you just said. Let me paraphrase, As time goes on, chips have more ESD protection and thus you need to worry about ESD less.
Unless I'm away from my home, I too use an ESD mat that way when working on multiple projects I'm always 100% safe.
EDIT: I'm having a really hard time using the new forum, seems it messes up quotes a lot.
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Ripley I see what OLDS is saying about plugging it in ..he is using the ground from the 3 prong to act as a anti static wrist strap.. which in theory makes sense but I still will go the route of using a 12 dollar floor mat to build on.. then i plug in all connections to power starting with the 24 pin them 8 pin then vid card ..so on so forth. I always plug in the HD last.. then plug in the PSU to the wall outlet.
I think you and I have the same building sense and I am glad you posted this for the novice builders. I learned from trial and error, with alot of error.
LawnDart
The ESD mat is useless unless you ground it. Where do you ground it at your home?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGg0yUTgT_M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cGg0yUTgT_M)
Please watch that video.
ESD mats prevent static build up in the first place, but can also can be grounded to act like a wrist strap.
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This is all over blown. I assemble my PCs with my socked feet resting on a running treadmill with a carpeted belt. No issues.
YMMV.
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To be totally fair the wrist grounding method is the best way to go. You cannot always be sure that electrical ground is always earth ground. That is you should work with the PSU unplugged from the wall. In your part of the world earth ground might always be the same as electrical ground, but I wouldn't count on it. In France, for instance, there may be several miles between the house and the substation where neutral is actually grounded. In that case there may be a few volts present on neutral and in that case you do not want the PSU plugged in when you interact during a build.
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IMO there's many more variables to take into account here than just the strap, mat and sweaty arm that have been mentioned. One factor is that here in Finland we don't use wall-to-wall carpet very much which reduces static charges quite efficiently. Clothing is another factor, wearing an acrylic pullover on a polyester shirt is prone to cause sparks.
I once visited a factory where static electricity was strictly prohibited. They had ESD mats all over the floors around their work benches, everyone moving around there had to take care their shoe soles and clothes fulfilled the specs etc. Definitely something else than a budding PC builder unwrapping his gear on a thick living room carpet wearing woven clothes during the driest winter.
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To be totally fair the wrist grounding method is the best way to go. You cannot always be sure that electrical ground is always earth ground. That is you should work with the PSU unplugged from the wall. In your part of the world earth ground might always be the same as electrical ground, but I wouldn't count on it. In France, for instance, there may be several miles between the house and the substation where neutral is actually grounded. In that case there may be a few volts present on neutral and in that case you do not want the PSU plugged in when you interact during a build.
You do know that ground and neutral are different right? Ground is a pole that goes 13ft down at your own house. Neutral is grounded at the power lines.
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Yes, and that is consistent with what I posted.
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Old buildings may have problems with grounding. For example when I bought my house which is built in 1945 it didn't have a grounding loop at the main switch box at all. We naturally installed one when we renewed the electric systems of the house. Required digging a 9 meter long 1 meter deep hole on the back yard and sinking a copper cable in it.
It seems some of you guys have blown the safety requirements completely out of proportions. If you don't have a grounded ESD mat under you, you're just as safe touching the case manually than you would be with a wrist band connected to the case. Working at a factory professionally under ESD protection is one thing and working at home building your home pc is another.
I guess you all buy a 3 grand 4-point car lift, oil suction pumps with a 10 gallon tank, professional tool sets, seat covers, overalls, 3 grand STAR analyzer etc. for your home garage when doing chores on your car? I mean no professional will touch the car without those. Me, I'm satisfied with my 25 dollar OBD II reader to check the occasional fault code. Works for me.
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2: ESD mats are to prevent electrostatic build up, not stop it from discharging. To stop discharges you need a faraday cage, aka anti static bag that all of your parts come out of the box with.
Its very possible you could work on PCs all your life and with no safety for ESD and not damage one part. Its also possible to go in a swimming pool during a lightning storm and never get hit by lightning.
ESD mats work only if you ground them. Their whole idea is to be made out of a conductive material that grounds YOU and dissipates any static buildup you may have. An ungrounded ESD mat on top of a static charged room carpeting is fully static just as any other material would be.
But if using one makes you feel better, go ahead :)
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ESD mats work only if you ground them. Their whole idea is to be made out of a conductive material that grounds YOU and dissipates any static buildup you may have. An ungrounded ESD mat on top of a static charged room carpeting is fully static just as any other material would be.
But if using one makes you feel better, go ahead :)
So rubber is a conductive material? And as its been pointed out to you many times, touching the case is only effective if you hold the case and not just touch it
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So rubber is a conductive material? And as its been pointed out to you many times, touching the case is only effective if you hold the case and not just touch it
Yes, rubber can be made very conductive if need be. In case of static electricity it's preferable to have a low conductivity to safely dissipate any static buildup. You also don't want a situation where your right hand touches live mains and your left hand is free current flow connected to the ground. That would instantly electrocute you. That's why your average wrist band also has a 1Mohm resistor attached to it. If your rubber mat would be an insulator, you'd be creating a big static potential just like when you walk on vinyl flooring or plastic carpeting.
http://hollandshielding.com/93-Electrically_conductive_rubber?gclid=CI70m8Oi7sMCFcQCcwodc7sA8Q
What did you think the ground lead in the ESD mat was for? ;)
When I assemble my computer I firstly never hold it upgright on its feet but lay it down on its side. Then when I install the components, I support my elbows to the sides of the case so whenever I install a new component or touch an existing one, I'm in contact with the case. Also most devices are largely protected so if you refrain from touching the metal connectors while installing your chances of ESD damage are greatly reduced.
Seriously, if ESD was that big of a practical problem you make it to be I'd have at least one component damaged during installation by now. On older computer parts I've ripped parts off and yanked new (used) ones in very carelessly and not one time I experienced problems. However if I was wearing clothes that made me shock door handles, faucets etc. regularly, I'd probably choose not to touch the innards of a computer under those conditions :)
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When I was studying computing we also had some PC building lessons. Our teacher told about wrist bands, but said that he never uses one. Sweaty arms leaning against the case would do the trick was his opinion. He also told about leaving the PSU plugged into mains for grounding, only switching it off - unless there was no switch in which case the computer had to be unplugged. So that's how we took apart and rebuilt the computer in the classroom - on a standard table without any ESD mats or anything. During that year we also had personal hard disks which we swapped for every lesson. None of the computers broke because of a zap.
The same guy successfully managed to hot-swap a bios chip after a failed flashing.
A long time ago I once managed to zap one component. I was doing the building on our living room rug which had proven to charge people very effectively if they dragged their wool socks on it...
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Yes, rubber can be made very conductive if need be. In case of static electricity it's preferable to have a low conductivity to safely dissipate any static buildup. You also don't want a situation where your right hand touches live mains and your left hand is free current flow connected to the ground. That would instantly electrocute you. That's why your average wrist band also has a 1Mohm resistor attached to it. If your rubber mat would be an insulator, you'd be creating a big static potential just like when you walk on vinyl flooring or plastic carpeting.
http://hollandshielding.com/93-Electrically_conductive_rubber?gclid=CI70m8Oi7sMCFcQCcwodc7sA8Q
What did you think the ground lead in the ESD mat was for? ;)
When I assemble my computer I firstly never hold it upgright on its feet but lay it down on its side. Then when I install the components, I support my elbows to the sides of the case so whenever I install a new component or touch an existing one, I'm in contact with the case. Also most devices are largely protected so if you refrain from touching the metal connectors while installing your chances of ESD damage are greatly reduced.
Seriously, if ESD was that big of a practical problem you make it to be I'd have at least one component damaged during installation by now. On older computer parts I've ripped parts off and yanked new (used) ones in very carelessly and not one time I experienced problems. However if I was wearing clothes that made me shock door handles, faucets etc. regularly, I'd probably choose not to touch the innards of a computer under those conditions :)
http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/19262/how-to-know-that-i-am-grounded-with-an-anti-static-wrist-strap
also you seem to keep forgetting that I never said you needed an ESD mat or any ESD protection at all. Modern components have protection circuits in the form of internal diodes from - to +.
Also, that 1mOhm resistor is to stop any painful discharge and discharge your body slowly.
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http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/19262/how-to-know-that-i-am-grounded-with-an-anti-static-wrist-strap
also you seem to keep forgetting that I never said you needed an ESD mat or any ESD protection at all. Modern components have protection circuits in the form of internal diodes from - to +.
Also, that 1mOhm resistor is to stop any painful discharge and discharge your body slowly.
The resistor is to stop any painful death in case your other hand happens to touch 120V/240V. Also the resistor limits currents if your grounded body touches a staticly charged object. Current damages, not voltage.
The rule of thumb any electrician is taught at school is to keep your other hand in your pocket when examining live circuits. Electricity can do no harm as long as it has nowhere to go - the current must always flow somewhere. In case of static it gets a bit tricky because two floating objects can still zap eachothers if they have differently charged potentials. That's why joining the objects through your body will even up their potential to the same level using your skin as a resistor.
If your installation target is grounded that always creates the maximum possible potential difference so without a high value resistor you could kill your component wearing a wrist wrap if the component was placed on a highly static floor rug for example. The static of the rug would dissipate explosively through you when you touch the component. The resistor limits the current to a safe level in addition to protecting your life.
But again, if the case is floating, touching it will even up any potential difference your body and the case has. Once there's no potential difference no ESD can happen. And your repeated posting about 'it's no capacitor' is not valid. You're not a capacitor either but you still build up static.
I have nothing against people buying the anti-static wraps naturally as long as they know how to use them and follow the other basic safety guidelines.
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The resistor is to stop any painful death in case your other hand happens to touch 120V/240V. Also the resistor limits currents if your grounded body touches a staticly charged object. Current damages, not voltage.
The rule of thumb any electrician is taught at school is to keep your other hand in your pocket when examining live circuits. Electricity can do no harm as long as it has nowhere to go - the current must always flow somewhere. In case of static it gets a bit tricky because two floating objects can still zap eachothers if they have differently charged potentials. That's why joining the objects through your body will even up their potential to the same level using your skin as a resistor.
If your installation target is grounded that always creates the maximum possible potential difference so without a high value resistor you could kill your component wearing a wrist wrap if the component was placed on a highly static floor rug for example. The static of the rug would dissipate explosively through you when you touch the component. The resistor limits the current to a safe level in addition to protecting your life.
But again, if the case is floating, touching it will even up any potential difference your body and the case has. Once there's no potential difference no ESD can happen. And your repeated posting about 'it's no capacitor' is not valid. You're not a capacitor either but you still build up static.
I have nothing against people buying the anti-static wraps naturally as long as they know how to use them and follow the other basic safety guidelines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_capacitance
also, saying "its not the voltage that kills, its the current" is the most dangerous thing to tell anyone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xONZcBJh5A
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OLDS can you at least say this is an informative post by Ripley and agree he did a good job.
LawnDart
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_capacitance
also, saying "its not the voltage that kills, its the current" is the most dangerous thing to tell anyone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xONZcBJh5A
No its not. Quit creating horror stories out of nothing. Even your video admitted 'there's some truth to it' and the video basically verified what I said. The voltages are not dangerous, the current is. You can very safely touch a 6kV voltage if you do it through a 20Mohm resistor. I've done this countless times when building electrostatic speakers. Through ESL panel and high voltage step-up power circuit building I'm quite familiar with static electricity and high voltage systems ;)
The fact that the joules raise with voltage has nothing to do with the basic fact that you can have 100 kilovolts and it won't do you a thing if you have enough resistivity to limit the current to a safe amount. Despite the fact that you need less amps at high voltages to create danger, the amps still matter. Same thing with electronic components, voltage or static charge does nothing to (at least most) of them. But when you connect that static charge to ground, current flows at near short cirquit amperage through the sensitive electronics and kills it.
Actually as far as human body goes, the dangerous voltage starts from 20 volts if there's conditions for current to flow (wet body).
https://www.physics.ohio-state.edu/~p616/safety/fatal_current.html
(http://i.stack.imgur.com/SNt5d.png)
You claim to be the expert on ESD and yet a few posts ago you didn't even know that an ESD mat is conductive and needs to be grounded. Give it a rest, please.
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By the way for all of you who were kind enough to worry about my thermal paste, I just got the back-order heatsink-fan combo (Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO) from the post and I'll be replacing the stock heatsink with it. I'll redo the paste probably tonight. With the new heatsink I'm going to be pushing the poor G chip to 4.7Ghz or more with some overvoltage.
But for the purposes of the guide, the stock heatsink has kept the peak temperatures below 70°C at 4.3Ghz even with the 'horribly badly done' paste ;)
For a stock heatsink and silent fan profile that is a good result.
Next week I'll be getting parts for my i5 4690k based build. The Asus motherboard combo worked so well in my budget build that I chose to buy another set and build a mid-tier build with a budget of 1600 euros. I considered for a second to make a X99 based system but that would have cost me 3000 euros and give maybe 10-15% higher fps in the end.
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OLDS can you at least say this is an informative post by Ripley and agree he did a good job.
LawnDart
I never said this was a bad post, infact I think it should be a sticky because its simple and informative to first time builders. I was simply pointing out that he was mistaken on his ESD protection.
Its very possible to build PCs with out any ESD protection as I have said. For me, I like to be better safe than sorry.
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I never said this was a bad post, infact I think it should be a sticky because its simple and informative to first time builders. I was simply pointing out that he was mistaken on his ESD protection.
Its very possible to build PCs with out any ESD protection as I have said. For me, I like to be better safe than sorry.
I really fail to see where I was mistaken. What do you want from me? Did I or did I not say that you should preferably wear an anti-static wristband? I mean what is your issue?
Preface: Always - ALWAYS ground yourself to the metal of the computer case before you install any part or touch any part inside the computer. Static electricity kills (components)! Preferably use an anti-static wristband.
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I really fail to see where I was mistaken. What do you want from me? Did I or did I not say that you should preferably wear an anti-static wristband? I mean what is your issue?
Actually I don't want anything, I was just pointing out the flaw in your grounding.
Also, ohms law is a linear relationship, as voltage goes up, or resistance goes down, current goes up. And the current alone doesn't kill you, as seen by the static discharge model in the video, its time dependent aswell.
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Actually I don't want anything, I was just pointing out the flaw in your grounding.
Also, ohms law is a linear relationship, as voltage goes up, or resistance goes down, current goes up. And the current alone doesn't kill you, as seen by the static discharge model in the video, its time dependent aswell.
You pointed out correctly that if the case is not plugged to the wall you're not actually grounding yourself to the case. Touching the case negates the chance of ESD however regardless of the case floating or being grounded. This is because if your body is charged and the case is grounded, your body static will dissipate on touch.
If your case is not grounded and you touch it, if there was any potential difference between you and the case, it's now gone. You can safely install the component.
The electrostatic discharge requires two conditions: Either ground is present or oppositely loaded charge is present. Touching will effectively dissipate both those conditions.
If there's no potential difference it is physically impossible for ESD to occur.
If we make a little thought game, think about this:
Have you ever got zap by static electricity? Yes? Many times. Have you ever got zapped twice in a row by static electricity? No?
Have you ever got zapped by an object you just previously touched? No?
Fuel for thought... :headscratch:
The only exception to the rules above is our poor kitty who creates an insane amount of static walking on our 100% wool carpets. He gets zapped to the nose all the time. But even he doesn't get zapped twice unless he rubs his hair enough to create more static.
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You pointed out correctly that if the case is not plugged to the wall you're not actually grounding yourself to the case. Touching the case negates the chance of ESD however regardless of the case floating or being grounded. This is because if your body is charged and the case is grounded, your body static will dissipate on touch.
If your case is not grounded and you touch it, if there was any potential difference between you and the case, it's now gone. You can safely install the component.
The electrostatic discharge requires two conditions: Either ground is present or oppositely loaded charge is present. Touching will effectively dissipate both those conditions.
If there's no potential difference it is physically impossible for ESD to occur.
If we make a little thought game, think about this:
Have you ever got zap by static electricity? Yes? Many times. Have you ever got zapped twice in a row by static electricity? No?
Have you ever got zapped by an object you just previously touched? No?
Fuel for thought... :headscratch:
The only exception to the rules above is our poor kitty who creates an insane amount of static walking on our 100% wool carpets. He gets zapped to the nose all the time. But even he doesn't get zapped twice unless he rubs his hair enough to create more static.
You would have to constantly hold the case to keep the potential difference 0. Touching the case that is not grounded will not dissipate static charge.
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Ripley, Nice post Sir. Someone will surely use it to their advantage.
olds, you lost me with this statement........
You do know that ground and neutral are different right? Ground is a pole that goes 13ft down at your own house. Neutral is grounded at the power lines.
What planetary group dictates a 13ft ground rod on a home? Its not the NEC here in the US. And a neutral is generally any bare copper GROUND that is tied to the GROUND buss in a breaker panel. Guess what? THE GROUND ROD IS TIED TO THE SAME BUSS.
I know this is late in coming to the conversation, but you blew your point making an argument over semantics.
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You would have to constantly hold the case to keep the potential difference 0. Touching the case that is not grounded will not dissipate static charge.
You are correct. It will however negate any potential difference which is required for two floating objects to zap each others. When you and your target float at the same +5kV potential for example there can be no discharge. ESD occurs only if you have, say, 5kV positive charge and your case (or object under it, connected to the case) has a negative charge. When you touch, sparks fly when your potentials are leveled (but not negated like when grounding). After your potentials are same no ESD happens anymore.
Same as when you get shocked by a sofa canvas. First touch zaps you, after that your potential difference is gone and you won't be zapped again unless you shuffle your vinyl pants enough to create static.
If what I say wouldn't be true, 99% of computer installations in this world would result in broken hardware since objects would just remain charged differently despite being touched. It would also mean that we would be all doomed to eternal static shocks whenever we move somewhere as charges would just remain forever.
If you think of it, what IS the ESD shock? It's a transfer of electrons from an object to another. When it gets strong enough it creates an arc. Now, once the electrons have been transfered via a medium (your hand) the system (you and the object you touch) have reached an equilibrium that negates further shocks.
I have one practical example for you: I have an electrostatic speaker. It's a sandwich structure with a 2 micron mylar sheet sandwiched between perforated steel plates.
The mylar holds a 4 kilovolt negative charge which keeps it flat centered between the metal stators at all times (well, except when you direct 1V - 7 kilovolts of AC to the stators at which time the membrane starts to move in pace of the AC, producing sound as it pushes air).
Now, the whole speaker is floating (it has to be due to design or it wouldn't be working in the first place). If I join the cables of the stators and the mylar membrane together, a spark occurs. Once. After that the mylar no longer remains centered between the stators because there are no electrostatic forces to keep it there anymore as the stators and the membrane have now reached the equilibrium. No further sparks appear no matter how I try to connect the + to the - or stator to the membrane.
Having said that - I agree with you Olds. It is always better to ground yourself by plugging your PSU and using the anti-static wrist wrap that is securely connected to a bare metal part of the case.
And see, now most of you learned something new - the working method of an electrostatic speaker lol. It's in essence a giant capacitor. In my case 6.5 foot tall and 2 feet wide. But only less than a half inch thick.
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This is all over blown. I assemble my PCs with my socked feet resting on a running treadmill with a carpeted belt. No issues.
YMMV.
I have my ssd outside of the case on the carpet. been like that for god knows how many months. zero problems. also when I build my computer, i build it on the kitchen table and countertops. was wearing my boots which is the reason my first hd is broken on one side, slipped out of my hand and tried to catch with with my foot so it wouldnt hit the floor too hard, i more like kicked it. also have had zero problems with that hd.
I dont know how many times i have taken my computer apart or upgraded one thing or another. I never had a mat or wrist band. one thing I always did, well when she was around, I would always ask my gf for a good luck kiss. she never knew it was to make sure I didnt have any static electricity. I never did.
you guys are arguing now for the sake of arguing. the first 3 or 4 posts on static electricity basically said it all.
semp
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I have my ssd outside of the case on the carpet. been like that for god knows how many months. zero problems. also when I build my computer, i build it on the kitchen table and countertops. was wearing my boots which is the reason my first hd is broken on one side, slipped out of my hand and tried to catch with with my foot so it wouldnt hit the floor too hard, i more like kicked it. also have had zero problems with that hd.
I dont know how many times i have taken my computer apart or upgraded one thing or another. I never had a mat or wrist band. one thing I always did, well when she was around, I would always ask my gf for a good luck kiss. she never knew it was to make sure I didnt have any static electricity. I never did.
you guys are arguing now for the sake of arguing. the first 3 or 4 posts on static electricity basically said it all.
semp
The sole reason for my thread was to show people that building your own computer is no rocket science and can be done in a few very simple steps. For a second I thought I achieved my goal lol.
I know there are many people who are struggling with old computers and 15fps arenas. If even one of them manages to find the budget to upgrade using these instructions I'm a happy camper.
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Ripley
I conncur with what you posted and I only wish people would see it as just that and not a discussion on EMP's UMP's or MMP's ...
Great job sir, :aok
LawnDart
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Ripley, Nice post Sir. Someone will surely use it to their advantage.
olds, you lost me with this statement........
What planetary group dictates a 13ft ground rod on a home? Its not the NEC here in the US. And a neutral is generally any bare copper GROUND that is tied to the GROUND buss in a breaker panel. Guess what? THE GROUND ROD IS TIED TO THE SAME BUSS.
I know this is late in coming to the conversation, but you blew your point making an argument over semantics.
Ground during normal operation has no current through it. Neutral however does carry current and when there is a difference in current between neutral and live that means there is a problem (this is how GFIs work). Secondly, You're correct in saying ground is not 13ft rod at the house itself, but at the powerlines it is infact 13ft into the ground. And neutral and ground are eventually tied to the same bus but serve different purposes.
Ripley
I conncur with what you posted and I only wish people would see it as just that and not a discussion on EMP's UMP's or MMP's ...
Great job sir, :aok
LawnDart
I get the impression that arguing is bad on this board. I already said ripley's post was a solid post and served its purpose very well. I do think that arguing a somewhat important point especially with older hardware.
I have my ssd outside of the case on the carpet. been like that for god knows how many months. zero problems. also when I build my computer, i build it on the kitchen table and countertops. was wearing my boots which is the reason my first hd is broken on one side, slipped out of my hand and tried to catch with with my foot so it wouldnt hit the floor too hard, i more like kicked it. also have had zero problems with that hd.
I dont know how many times i have taken my computer apart or upgraded one thing or another. I never had a mat or wrist band. one thing I always did, well when she was around, I would always ask my gf for a good luck kiss. she never knew it was to make sure I didnt have any static electricity. I never did.
you guys are arguing now for the sake of arguing. the first 3 or 4 posts on static electricity basically said it all.
semp
That SSD case is grounded by the sata power connector. Like I said, its possible to not get struct by lightning while swimming in a pool in a lightning storm, also the fact that modern hardware has ESD protection built also fixes most issues.
Arguing for the sake of arguing is the best way to learn new things, I would bet a lot of people have learned new things by this thread and this argument. I know I have, and with that I shall end the argument.
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Arguing for the sake of arguing is the best way to learn new things, I would bet a lot of people have learned new things by this thread and this argument. I know I have, and with that I shall end the argument.
Arguing for the sake of arguing is very exasperating to read if you're not involved yourself.
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Ya know olds.................
your just not worth it.......
Nice ruined post Ripley, it started out well enough.
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Not sure how I missed this one, great post Ripley. An excellent reference and guide, especially for new builders on a budget.
I've built a good dozen or so, probably more as well, using your method for static combined with Lawndart's (a cheap mat). I'm not sure if the mat makes a difference or not, but I've never bothered with the wrist thingy, and haven't fried anything (yet). It's not enough of a risk to really bake my brain over, or get too concerned with. I replace and swap components probably every month, and replace/build new systems x 2 or 3 boxes every year or two, and haven't had a failed component or fried a single thing. Maybe I'm just lucky. Just did it again this week swapping 2 970s with two new 980s going into aircooled box 1.
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/278c/cnbzijbdmbtcdfczg.jpg)
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Not sure how I missed this one, great post Ripley. An excellent reference and guide, especially for new builders on a budget.
Thank you for your kind words. I realize the instructions are not perfect but I had 15 minutes before an online meeting to patch this thing up from the uploaded images I saved on the previous day.
The main thing I would like to improve on the tutorial is how to connect the reset and power switch cables. Those are tiny and tricky. I think Im going to make a new tutorial on the i5 4690k system Im building next. This time I even bought an anti-static wrist band just to please Olds!
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Ripley a little trick I do for power and reset pins is to use a little scotch tape and tape them together, depending on the mother board inputs. Two of them are easier than 1 to put on and if they are close enough i will bundle them all together as one then plug them in.
Some mother boards also have the jumper plug and that makes life so much easier.
LAwnDart
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Some mother boards also have the jumper plug and that makes life so much easier.
LAwnDart
Yes I actually have saved the jumper plug from an old motherboard I used to have, it makes things that much easier.
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Ripley a little trick I do for power and reset pins is to use a little scotch tape and tape them together, depending on the mother board inputs. Two of them are easier than 1 to put on and if they are close enough i will bundle them all together as one then plug them in.
Some mother boards also have the jumper plug and that makes life so much easier.
LAwnDart
I prefer tequila, but whatever :).
semp
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From someone that has no idea how to build a computer, but is thinking of taking the plunge, thanks Ripley, great post......definately a confidence builder, and very informative. I'm going to practice the Whiskey part first, and then move on from there
Seriously tho, Appreciate you taking the time :salute :cheers:
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From someone that has no idea how to build a computer, but is thinking of taking the plunge, thanks Ripley, great post......definately a confidence builder, and very informative. I'm going to practice the Whiskey part first, and then move on from there
Seriously tho, Appreciate you taking the time :salute :cheers:
Just don't stop to the whiskey part! Cheers! :D
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From someone that has no idea how to build a computer, but is thinking of taking the plunge, thanks Ripley, great post......definately a confidence builder, and very informative. I'm going to practice the Whiskey part first, and then move on from there
Seriously tho, Appreciate you taking the time :salute :cheers:
It's ridiculously easy. After building the one I'm using now there's zero chance I'd ever buy another Dell-type rig.
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