Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Rich46yo on February 20, 2015, 03:14:38 PM
-
All the shooting and competing Ive done and Ive never even owned a high capacity handgun or ever shot a Glock in my life. But everyone is buying Glocks so I figure what the heck.
Kinda strange not feeling the heft of steel. We'll see, I cant get to the range for a couple weeks.
-
Of all the Glock models, you bought the best one IMO. I like the 19 more than the 17, it's a little more concealable, and the slightly shorter sight radius makes zilch difference, at least to me. A couple less rounds, but with such high capacity already, nbd. My first Glock was a 21, first gen, and I barely shot it. I was issued a G19 for work years later, and really grew to like it, and as I said, after shooting piles of them on the rental range I worked at as a kid, found it to be what I think is the best overall model.
Depending on what you're used to shooting, you might not like the trigger a whole lot. There are options, putting an aftermarket trigger in with a 3.5lb dis-connector, plus a few other tricks, can really change the trigger press on the GLock pistol to something fairly decent.
You planning on carrying it off duty (or on)? What kind of holster are you going to use? Also, what generation is it, the newest 4 or an older model? I've heard that Chicago PD has a variety of sidearms approved for use, and that officers that have been around a while (cough) could keep their older single action or revolvers if they had them before a certain date. I assume from your post that this is what you did, not having a hi cap semi and so on.
-
Well...we've had a variety approved for awhiles. Like 8 or 10 years. My first 10 to 15 it was a choice between what 6 shooter and 158 .38 LHP , and then what crummy 9mm 147 subsonic. Of course we had a wide variety of choices for a 2nd back then. But never a .357 JHP mag so I never bothered, other then a 645 or a .38 snub. I sold the 1st gen SW and hung on to the snub. Time wore on, I ended up with a 3953 for OD, while winning trophys with a 1911 milspec and a wheelgun.
But who in a big Dept. gives a frack how you can shoot right?
So I got out of it for 12+ years totally other then qualifys. Then we got all modern. Rifles, striker fires, High caps, +Ps, +P+'s, .40s, any JHP in approved calibers and guns. Ive never owned a high cap pistol and my rifle looks like a reject from Apocalypse now.
So I bought this Glock for my last year and beyond' Once I retire who knows how much I'll carry it. I still have the original 686 lol. It'll go to my kid along with the warning to do something else. The Glock feels like a feather, for the last 15 its been a P220 and you can hammer nails with that thing. Big piece the 220, the hole alone will settle arguments.
Seems to me the 9mm is making a comeback. Lotsa buzz about it again. Damn good caliber.
In the end Lol the only one Ive used in anger is the .38 snub 158 grn +P LHP. They all work as long as you put it in the boiler room. :salute
Of all the Glock models, you bought the best one IMO. I like the 19 more than the 17, it's a little more concealable, and the slightly shorter sight radius makes zilch difference, at least to me. A couple less rounds, but with such high capacity already, nbd. My first Glock was a 21, first gen, and I barely shot it. I was issued a G19 for work years later, and really grew to like it, and as I said, after shooting piles of them on the rental range I worked at as a kid, found it to be what I think is the best overall model.
Depending on what you're used to shooting, you might not like the trigger a whole lot. There are options, putting an aftermarket trigger in with a 3.5lb dis-connector, plus a few other tricks, can really change the trigger press on the GLock pistol to something fairly decent.
You planning on carrying it off duty (or on)? What kind of holster are you going to use? Also, what generation is it, the newest 4 or an older model? I've heard that Chicago PD has a variety of sidearms approved for use, and that officers that have been around a while (cough) could keep their older single action or revolvers if they had them before a certain date. I assume from your post that this is what you did, not having a hi cap semi and so on.
-
Just a heads up Rich, I bought and dropped in a Fulcrum trigger in mine and I love it
While I'm a Sig and 1911 guy, after putting this trigger in my 19 I'm really enjoying it. I've shot it at a few IDPA and 3 gun matches this year, and am thinking of using it exclusively next
yr
(Oh and as far as wheel guns, I carry a stainless SW mod 60 chiefs special that was my dads......it's a Timex, just keeps going and going and going
-
I have run almost every style or caliber handgun during my ipsc days. I found that when your really addicted the best pistol to have is the one that cost the least to run. I love My SW 9mm 8 shot and also the small STI their really fun to shoot. This year i decided to prove to my buddies a 9mm can be a hunting round. Shot placement is everything so i took a deer and a couple pigs while in the stand. The deer ran 10 yards and the jumbo pig about 20.
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0By0zKKCWMUdBdVJXaVdJTl9tUVE&usp=sharing
-
A glock? A GLOCK?!?!
(http://sportsdad60.smugmug.com/photos/i-LVpbdzr/0/O/i-LVpbdzr.jpg)
-
Thanks Bailey, maybe someday. A PD gets squirrely about conversions after purchase except for night sights.
FX I wish I'd kept that original 645 cause it was double/single and would be grandfathered in before the idiot proof trigger requirement.
Rip I already have a 1911. Lol unfortunately I cant carry it. In this you are probably more "free" then me.
-
A glock? A GLOCK?!?!
(http://sportsdad60.smugmug.com/photos/i-LVpbdzr/0/O/i-LVpbdzr.jpg)
Have one love it. Wilson's are excellent, Wilson's Supergrades are excellent +10
Thanks Bailey, maybe someday. A PD gets squirrely about conversions after purchase except for night sights.
Ahhhh sorry didn't see it was a duty gun. One of these days I'll learn to read :bhead
-
A glock? A GLOCK?!?!
Funny pic!
I went with a "swock," sw m&p .45. Looked at the glocks but didn't like the feel of the grips.
(http://sportsdad60.smugmug.com/photos/i-LVpbdzr/0/O/i-LVpbdzr.jpg)
-
Couldn't spike much of a reaction with ol' Rich. :D
Congrats on your purchase.
Rich, agree on the 1911 for conceal and carry, it's bulky!
I don't carry my Colt 1911 (made in 1916-95% condition) either but I do have a Para Ord P12 .45 ACP (double stack 11+1) that is a really nice fit with a Tucker & Byrd pancake holster.
The Colt is too valuable to carry anyway.
-
Yep the Wilson is a Beaut. Were I still competing.........I wonder what a super grade is going for nowadays?
I will always be a .45 guy. .45ACP, .454 Casull, .450 Marlin, .45 Colt. For hunting the Speer 300 grn SPs are just a marvel, a 400 grn for the .450 . This is why, during my prime, I had no problems with a good single stage reloader. The 9mms, 5.56s, 7.62X39s, were all so cheap why bother reloading?
Lol Last time I tried finding a Dillon progressive I went two weeks with a busy signal calling Dillon. What can I say?
But is seems ammo's coming down and I will shoot a bit again. I believe in the 9mm and the new offerings, most of all the 110+P+ and the 124 +P. It was the original 147 grn subsonics that turned us off from the 9mm. They were crapola.
-
Yep the Wilson is a Beaut. Were I still competing.........I wonder what a super grade is going for nowadays?
Mine was about $4750.00 custom order with a 10month build time. I had them do a couple tweaks...magwell,custom grips etc.
-
Mine was about $4750.00 custom order with a 10month build time. I had them do a couple tweaks...magwell,custom grips etc.
Lol, yeah I figured 3 to 4 G at least. A wonderful piece tho.
At this stage of my life I'd rather put money towards Historical pieces. But the Wilson is a wonder.
-
Glocks are good guns, no doubt. I had to carry a Glock 22 on duty for a year. As soon as I was able to I went back to Sig, now I carry a 229 (E2) Elite in 9mm.
Be very careful of going with "what everyone else is carrying". In most cases, people are not having the chance to (truly) test out multiple platforms, calibers, etc. They go with what is issued, cheap, hear-say, etc. That goes for all models.
Luckily, over the years I've been able to test out, qualify (LEO), and tinker with multiple platforms. I have more rounds though Sig P6/226/229's, Beretta 92's, and 1911's that I do Glocks. This I know: it is more about what to stay away from than it is about what you pick. There are a whole host of handguns I would trust with my life, after I've been able to learn them, and there are a whole host of handguns I would rather use as a paperweight vs using as a weapon.
Stay away from Jennings, Lorcin, Phoenix Arms, and a few other POS's. I wouldn't trust a number of the Taurus auto loader "copy cat" models (but their revolvers are fine, imo), either. But to each his own.
-
Mine was about $4750.00 custom order with a 10month build time. I had them do a couple tweaks...magwell,custom grips etc.
That makes my WC CQB seem like a bargain. :eek:
-
Thanks Bailey, maybe someday. A PD gets squirrely about conversions after purchase except for night sights.
FX I wish I'd kept that original 645 cause it was double/single and would be grandfathered in before the idiot proof trigger requirement.
Rip I already have a 1911. Lol unfortunately I cant carry it. In this you are probably more "free" then me.
i think you guys would have to worry about lawsuits and such too, if you ever really needed to use it....and it was found out your pistol was modded in any way.
-
Couldn't spike much of a reaction with ol' Rich. :D
Congrats on your purchase.
Rich, agree on the 1911 for conceal and carry, it's bulky!
I don't carry my Colt 1911 (made in 1916-95% condition) either but I do have a Para Ord P12 .45 ACP (double stack 11+1) that is a really nice fit with a Tucker & Byrd pancake holster.
The Colt is too valuable to carry anyway.
i used to carry my 1911compact. even that was hard to conceal, and heavy. i gave up on that, and now carry a ruger sr9c. i like it a lot. nice smooth, light trigger, easy to conceal, and i can drill holes at 10 yards with it. i still carry a full size 1911 at home though.
-
i think you guys would have to worry about lawsuits and such too, if you ever really needed to use it....and it was found out your pistol was modded in any way.
Well Cap it all depends on who you are. This city is like a medieval fiefdom. Kings, Queens, Knights, Princesses, Squires, Barons, serfs....ect "Heavy" enough and you can get water turned into wine.
Unfortunately I'm a serf whose only skills are for meaningless things like making pinches, spotting criminals, shooting, self defense....ect None of the important ones. So as a serf no modding for me but thats OK. Im getting old but can still shoot any weapon pretty well.
-
Rich, good choice there. I agree with Gman the 19 is the best of the 9's that Glock puts out for constant carry. I started with the 17 when my PD transitioned from all wheelguns. The 17 was OK but it was too big for off duty in the desert SW. I got a 19 for offduty carry and found it shot so nice that I started carrying it both on and off duty. It was the same size overall, other than width, as my old Offiocers model and far far lighter. I found I forgot I was carrying it IWB style compared to my Officers Model. I used that same 19 for more than 10 years including as a Motor where it was exposed to the elements al lot more than regular Patrol carry. Since I used it for duty I didn't have to buy ammo for offduty use. I still have the thing and the only change has been the slide was hard chromed after about 5 years of dual use and I have the next size taller rear sight. The finish started to wear and a guy who did refinishing for a lot of Cops did a really nice job with it. It shoots better than I can hold today and I have muti thousands of rounds through it. I also used it to compete in what used to be called Combat Pistol competition way back when.
I would decline to put in an after market trigger bar though. Leave it bone stock there in case you have to use it then defend the use of it in court. We both know an attorney has no obligation to remain truthful in court and innuendos carry far more weight than it should in the minds of a jury.
Modern ammo like Hornady critical defense / duty makes the 9 the equal in effectiveness to the old 45 even with today's ammo. Don't let it worry you, there is a more than adequate history behind the new ammo in actual shootings to prove the point.
I don't carry the 19 now because I have transitioned to smaller and lighter for carry but I do drag it out for the annual LEOSA qualification. It's also just fun to shoot. It's second only to my old wheelgun (S&W 66) that I started with since I'm still an old revolver guy.
-
Rich, good choice there. I agree with Gman the 19 is the best of the 9's that Glock puts out for constant carry. I started with the 17 when my PD transitioned from all wheelguns. The 17 was OK but it was too big for off duty in the desert SW. I got a 19 for offduty carry and found it shot so nice that I started carrying it both on and off duty. It was the same size overall, other than width, as my old Offiocers model and far far lighter. I found I forgot I was carrying it IWB style compared to my Officers Model. I used that same 19 for more than 10 years including as a Motor where it was exposed to the elements al lot more than regular Patrol carry. Since I used it for duty I didn't have to buy ammo for offduty use. I still have the thing and the only change has been the slide was hard chromed after about 5 years of dual use and I have the next size taller rear sight. The finish started to wear and a guy who did refinishing for a lot of Cops did a really nice job with it. It shoots better than I can hold today and I have muti thousands of rounds through it. I also used it to compete in what used to be called Combat Pistol competition way back when.
I would decline to put in an after market trigger bar though. Leave it bone stock there in case you have to use it then defend the use of it in court. We both know an attorney has no obligation to remain truthful in court and innuendos carry far more weight than it should in the minds of a jury.
Modern ammo like Hornady critical defense / duty makes the 9 the equal in effectiveness to the old 45 even with today's ammo. Don't let it worry you, there is a more than adequate history behind the new ammo in actual shootings to prove the point.
I don't carry the 19 now because I have transitioned to smaller and lighter for carry but I do drag it out for the annual LEOSA qualification. It's also just fun to shoot. It's second only to my old wheelgun (S&W 66) that I started with since I'm still an old revolver guy.
I agree on a couple of things:
1> Leave the stock trigger along. Shoot the hell out of if and break it in, you dont need to have a "light" trigger on a duty or combat gun.
2> Do not discount the 9mm when using modern HP ammo, especially in +P+ config. The wound channels are impressive. Compared to 20 years ago the 9mm has vaulted forward in viability. When comparing military FMJ stuff, the .45 ACP will have an edge over the 9mm. Not so when using modern HP.
-
Well Cap it all depends on who you are. This city is like a medieval fiefdom. Kings, Queens, Knights, Princesses, Squires, Barons, serfs....ect "Heavy" enough and you can get water turned into wine.
Unfortunately I'm a serf whose only skills are for meaningless things like making pinches, spotting criminals, shooting, self defense....ect None of the important ones. So as a serf no modding for me but thats OK. Im getting old but can still shoot any weapon pretty well.
yea, i hear ya. my thought process comes from living in nj. things are so goofy here, that if i were to use reloads in a self defense shooting....i'd probably end up at the mercy of the badguy, or his heirs.....'cause they'll use anything. shot with a "hot" load? why did you want only to kill him? shot with a light load? why did you feel the need to maim him, or make him suffer? modded gun? so apparently mr cap, you were itching to kill someone, otherwise why would you have a special trigger installed?
silly crap like that.......
-
Yeah no Mods except for the allowed night sights.
I have smaller carry guns. A Ruger LCP, a SW M-36, even a 3953. Mostly I throw a .380 in my pocket off duty and an extra magazine. If I have ANY advice here ALWAYS carry an extra reload. But if you had to paint a picture of a person who wants to avoid a gun fight more then anyone else that pictures me. Ive lost all trust in the system and am tired of being vilified. But you might end up with your back to the wall and no other options.
Im really amazed at the weight of the Glock. Everything I own is steel and when I picked up the empty M-19 it was like a feather. Now I hear the Hot Glock is the 34 and they are hard to find. We'll see, if I ever compete again. Frankly its just fun to be doing a little shooting again.
-
Congrats, I own a 27 gen 4 and carry it concealed.
You must know how to clean it properly, so here is a vid :aok for you. Practice makes perfect so watch it over and over if you feel the need to.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1m6Qct68wo
-
Here is my holster also. (no vid, sorry heheheh)
Nobody, except cops, is able to identify what it is. Well, it is extremely rare someone asks me what it is. I tell them it's my tablet, medical kit, binoculars etc... and then there are some I tell the truth to.
http://www.sneakypeteholsters.com/glock-27-sneaky-pete-holster-belt-clip/
Edit: If you go this route for a holster, go with the belt clips over the belt loops. It's a lot easier to grab the bottom of the clips and remove it as opposed to removing your belt entirely.
Good luck, be careful, shoot alot, know your weapon, take a safety course and God Bless America.
-
Living in a non-ccw allowed country I don't always consider the potential legal ramifications of an aftermarket trigger - the only time I've carried a pistol is in an area of ops where the odds of a lawsuit where a lighter trigger would play a factor is zero. I do understand that with the current atmosphere in the USA, it could be very much the case. The 5 to 5.5ish # trigger isn't all that much heavier than the 3.5lb anyway, it's more about other factors than the weight with the improved trigger press anyway IMO.
One thing nobody has mentioned much is the sights. If you haven't tried the Vickers/Wilson Glock sights, and ever plan on changing your Glock sights, try these ones out. Excellent sights, the best Glock sights I've used, night or otherwise. I wouldn't necessarily say it's worth the $ if you already have night/good aftermarket sights, but if you have the Glock factory sights, these are the ones to get IMO.
Do any of you USA guys doing ccw use a pocket magazine holder of some kind for your extra mag, if you're carrying just a single and not using a typical belt mounted mag holder? Again, not product that has much use where I'm from unfortunately, but I read some stuff recently about the leather or kydex single mag holder that is shaped to sit in your pocket, and present the magazine in a consistent way other than just in your pocket how it ends up sitting randomly. I agree that a pistol without a reload is a terrible idea, not just for the extra ammunition obviously, but primarily for stoppage drills - a worst case scenario stoppage where stripping the magazine is required to clear it leaves one in a poor spot without an easily accessible replacement mag, as trying to retain your only magazine while working the stoppage = tricky stuff, and will slow the whole operation by a large factor. I could also understand though that doing CCW in warmer weather with a belt mounted mag holder on the opposite side of what you're trying to hide on the other (the pistol) makes concealment even more difficult overall. That's why I found the whole pocket mag holder an interesting little piece of kit.
I had a Glock 34, not a gen4, and they were very popular in the Gen3 days as well. Everybody and their dog that shot competition in the various classes that allowed it were shooting it in my parts. I still prefer the G19 if I was carrying due to size/dimensions/etc.
-
Living in a non-ccw allowed country I don't always consider the potential legal ramifications of an aftermarket trigger - the only time I've carried a pistol is in an area of ops where the odds of a lawsuit where a lighter trigger would play a factor is zero. I do understand that with the current atmosphere in the USA, it could be very much the case. The 5 to 5.5ish # trigger isn't all that much heavier than the 3.5lb anyway, it's more about other factors than the weight with the improved trigger press anyway IMO.
One thing nobody has mentioned much is the sights. If you haven't tried the Vickers/Wilson Glock sights, and ever plan on changing your Glock sights, try these ones out. Excellent sights, the best Glock sights I've used, night or otherwise. I wouldn't necessarily say it's worth the $ if you already have night/good aftermarket sights, but if you have the Glock factory sights, these are the ones to get IMO.
i only carry at home, and at work, as in nj, you will not get a carry permit. there's less than 1500 in the entire state. at work, where i carry my ruger, i keep a spare mag in the thigh pocket. at home where i carry my 1911, i don't carry a spare mag, as there's always a rifle or shotgun pretty close....so the 1911 will essentially only need to cover me long enough to get to one of those.
of course, it goes without saying, that i(as i'm sure most anyone is) hope to never need them.
Do any of you USA guys doing ccw use a pocket magazine holder of some kind for your extra mag, if you're carrying just a single and not using a typical belt mounted mag holder? Again, not product that has much use where I'm from unfortunately, but I read some stuff recently about the leather or kydex single mag holder that is shaped to sit in your pocket, and present the magazine in a consistent way other than just in your pocket how it ends up sitting randomly. I agree that a pistol without a reload is a terrible idea, not just for the extra ammunition obviously, but primarily for stoppage drills - a worst case scenario stoppage where stripping the magazine is required to clear it leaves one in a poor spot without an easily accessible replacement mag, as trying to retain your only magazine while working the stoppage = tricky stuff, and will slow the whole operation by a large factor. I could also understand though that doing CCW in warmer weather with a belt mounted mag holder on the opposite side of what you're trying to hide on the other (the pistol) makes concealment even more difficult overall. That's why I found the whole pocket mag holder an interesting little piece of kit.
I had a Glock 34, not a gen4, and they were very popular in the Gen3 days as well. Everybody and their dog that shot competition in the various classes that allowed it were shooting it in my parts. I still prefer the G19 if I was carrying due to size/dimensions/etc.
-
One thing nobody has mentioned much is the sights. If you haven't tried the Vickers/Wilson Glock sights, and ever plan on changing your Glock sights, try these ones out. Excellent sights, the best Glock sights I've used, night or otherwise. I wouldn't necessarily say it's worth the $ if you already have night/good aftermarket sights, but if you have the Glock factory sights, these are the ones to get IMO.
https://www.xssights.com/Products.aspx?CAT=8208
I went with these on my 17 and 19.
-
Also here are some shooting grip essentials.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iDnEkFSMRik
-
XS sights are decent as well, sold/installed/used many of them over the years, we were the Canadian distributors for their stuff back in the early 2000s. The big dot on CCW pistols is fantastic for picking up your front site on a short sight radius pistol.
-
Well I got tru glo TFX night sights cause the front sight looked really good to me. Of course finding the front sight is everything in combat shooting. Its big, green, round, and illuminated. I could have spent like "forever" looking at sights but often first impulse is enough.
Probable carry load will be Win Ranger 124 grn JHP +P. I used to go with Speer 110 +P+'s but we have Denizens who like to wear 3 or 4 leather coats in winter, cause they are cold, and they make for a pretty good street BPV. Ive heard reports raving about the 147 grn JHPs but I'll never trust them I dont think. Not after the after shooting reports Ive read when we adopted it. Remember? After the Miami fiasco the FBI went to the 147 grn SS's and all the PDs followed?
In the early years they were crap.
-
Rich / Gman
Have you ever seen any data (or used) CorBon rounds? I use them in most of my ccw handguns. My dad was an instructor for the PA State PD and I still have a relationship with some of the troopers he trained. A few of them turned me on to them and I find they function flawlessly in all my firearms. They are also very popular amongst many of my customers at the indoor range/gunshop I use to work at and still help out at on occasion . Guess what I'm asking is do you have any feedback on them in your professional backgrounds?
Funny story about growing up......my dad was a Maine and Pa state trooper, his twin brother was DEA, and his oldest brother was INS. Their father (my grandfather) was a "beat cop" in Boston then detective. My moms side was all Methodist Ministers my grandfather, 4 uncles and 3 cousins all ministers. Growing up I was under the impression that if I screwed up I was going to Jail or Hell :D
-
Rich / Gman
Have you ever seen any data (or used) CorBon rounds? I use them in most of my ccw handguns. My dad was an instructor for the PA State PD and I still have a relationship with some of the troopers he trained. A few of them turned me on to them and I find they function flawlessly in all my firearms. They are also very popular amongst many of my customers at the indoor range/gunshop I use to work at and still help out at on occasion . Guess what I'm asking is do you have any feedback on them in your professional backgrounds?
Funny story about growing up......my dad was a Maine and Pa state trooper, his twin brother was DEA, and his oldest brother was INS. Their father (my grandfather) was a "beat cop" in Boston then detective. My moms side was all Methodist Ministers my grandfather, 4 uncles and 3 cousins all ministers. Growing up I was under the impression that if I screwed up I was going to Jail or Hell :D
Until you fire hundred and hundreds of rounds of CorBon though your gun (s), I'd hesitate to say "flawless". There is a whole lot more to labeling something as so absolute as "flawless".
There is tons of data on CorBon ammo, so a quick search and you'll see why it isn't considered a "front line" round like the Gold Dot, Federal HST, Winchester Ranger, etc, etc.
-
Probable carry load will be Win Ranger 124 grn JHP +P.
124 or 127? My last two quals we were issued the Ranger 127gr +P+ after using the Gold Dot 126gr +P for several years.
-
Until you fire hundred and hundreds of rounds of CorBon though your gun (s), I'd hesitate to say "flawless". There is a whole lot more to labeling something as so absolute as "flawless".
There is tons of data on CorBon ammo, so a quick search and you'll see why it isn't considered a "front line" round like the Gold Dot, Federal HST, Winchester Ranger, etc, etc.
I've fired closer to thousands of rounds of corbon ammo thru my ccw guns. I surpassed hundreds years ago
Rich, Gman what's your thoughts?
-
I've fired closer to thousands of rounds of corbon ammo thru my ccw guns. I surpassed hundreds years ago
Rich, Gman what's your thoughts?
Shoot a quality JHP of 9mm or larger and hit the right spots on the guy trying to kill you. It may surprise some, considering the amount of shootings and murders we have here, but I dont know a whole lot about wound ballistics. Other then what I just said. Normally I pull up to the scene, secure it and the evidence, and at most canvass for witnesses. I can see what round was used, or caliber at least, if from a semi-auto "and most are" by the shell casings on the ground. I can tell by where the wounds are if the shootee is in serious trouble or not, or kilt. But other then that I never got to deep into it.
Im not a Det. or a forensic pathologist. Or even an evidence tech. And frankly not even many of them get to involved in the specifics of ballistic performance. Even still today there isnt a whole lot of material on the subject.
If its a good self defense round and it feeds well in your gun then use it. Of all the variables the type of quality round used is probably the least important. "Where" you put that round is 1st, assuming it feeds flawlessly in your gun. Getting those rounds into that target before the other guy can is of equal importance.
One kid gets shot in the lung and dies on the spot , another gets shot in the lung "same type gun/round" and runs 2 blocks, bleeds out, yet gets kickstarted and lives? Who knows why? The only hand gun round Ive seen used that actually impressed me was the .357 mag JHP 125 grn. And scared me to since a gangster fired 4 at me once.
Get a well regarded self defense JHP that feeds well and practice with it. Even better take some courses on how to shoot while moving. Or with either hand. Or how to use cover. Or all of the above. Thats the summation of what I know.
-
THe above is what I've liked about reading Rich's handgun/caliber posts.
He sees more of the real world effects due to his job and the nature of where it is, regarding pistol lethality, and probably has a more accurate idea than most, especially taken over the long view/many samples, of how lethal, or non-lethal, pistols with the majority of calibers are. 80 percent of those shot no matter what type of ammunition survive being shot, often with multiple wounds, with common semi auto pistol rounds, and the more light performing revolver rounds. I agree that 357mag and 44 mag and other high velocity revolver rounds are a league apart from the common semiauto rounds.
My opinion on all the various types of "wonder rounds" for any caliber is that it's a game of inches. Millimeters even. I just think it's best to not wrap to much mind power around comparing the lethality of various common semi auto pistol rounds as it becomes an argument of "which of these things of which the world's very best isn't all that great, is better". Again, having a good performing purpose built ammunition/round isn't going to hurt anyone, but being concerned about a percent or two here and there of handgun ammo performance when a shoulder supported weapon such as a carbine, shotgun, even a pistol caliber rifle, is SO much more lethal than most pistol rounds - it just seems pointless for a weapon that is at best a secondary system or a last ditch/defensive weapon. IMO any of the decent defensive loads will suffice with a user who is able to be accurate and has a solid skill set that is maintained through training.
Smokinloon said it well IMO as well. I would agree with Rich as well, 147 gr stuff designed to be primarily used in suppressed weapons has shown a large enough gap in overall performance that I think it's safe to say to avoid it in 9mms unless you need a subsonic round. Having a wonder bullet moving so slow really degrades the effectiveness of all that "bullet tech" anyway, so it's not a very good option for much of anything IMO, even in a suppressed weapon I would just use ball ammo as the low velocity really doesn't allow expanding bullets to perform all that great, but that's really my only really consistent thing I have to say about common pistol rounds.
It's mostly about location. Like real estate. Location, location, location. The US Air Marshals have had 4 or 5 engagements, all of which ended up being lethal. This doesn't jive with the usual 80% survival rate for a reason. Many like to point to how the 357 sig is close to 357mag in lethality, and that is certainly a part of the story, but not the majority IMO. It's hit placement, every one of these engagements had the target being struck right in the t-line, with rounds striking the cone of vulnerability accurately and often. Do this, and any round type will work, although again having a good defensive ammunition won't hurt, again with the game of inches theory regarding lethality. If I had to pick one, for me it would be Gold Dots, but again there are others that perform, and many are close enough to not make much difference. Shoot some of any of these over a chrono, and you'll see enough variation in velocity that it makes arguing a few percentage points a moot issue anyway, when velocity can vary 50 or 70 fps with even the most expensive ammo.
-
i made myself a couple expensive range nights. first one was running critical defense through my sig. i put a couple hundred rouds through it to be sure it'd feed/function reliably. i suspected it would, and it didn't disappoint. second night was feeding the same thing, but in 9mm through my sr9c. that's my carry gun at the shop. i'm a lot closer to camden there, and only a 5 minute walk from a "questionable" apartment complex.......