Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Randy1 on February 25, 2015, 08:23:14 AM
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Of late I seem to get a pilot wound or worse when attacking bombers with a P-38.
I try to avoid the deadly six shoot. I tried using a slashing attack from the side and bottom but fail to get enough hits on the average pass to take a bomber down. The P-47 I use now and then has enough firepower I don't have this problem.
If I try to get above the bomber to do a diving attack the bomber most often uses the flying from a gun position feature to keep turning the bomber in sharp, hard turns. You would think they would loose their drones but that is another post.
What is my best attack procedure for bombers with specifically the P-38?
I look at the stats for top players like ak-ak and lazer and they have good numbers of bomber kills so it is definitely my bad.
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Best attacking position in any fighter is from directly above. Build up lots of speed, hit them hard and fast, and then get out of their gun range as quickly as possible (which is easy since you have now built up lots of speed in a dive). If the bomber pilot does the hard turn thing then just laugh at him and shoot his defenseless drones. I don't know why bomber pilots think this tactic somehow works in shaking an attacker off. You're drones don't turn that hard with you. Instead they become a much easier target as they are no longer shooting back at the attacker. The only reason I can think they do this is because they want to exploit the teleporting drone bug where their drones will teleport back to them if they get too far away. This is a really annoying little bug that I hope gets fix in the new version of Aces High.
If they don't get the teleporting drone bug then all you have to do is easily slaughter his drones and now he's lost 2/3 of his defensive firepower :) . Best place to aim is for the wings, specifically between the inboard engine and fuselage. Hit them there and 9 times out of 10 they burst into flames from just a few rounds. The B17 is easier to set on fire if you attack it from below but climbing to attack it makes you slow making it easier for them to shoot you and prolongs your time in their gun range so I still recommend attacking b17s from above and just aiming for the wings.
Attacking bombers takes patience. Set up the perfect attack approach to minimize the effectiveness of return fire from the bombers, make sure to land at least some hits to maybe kill some gunners or just damage their plane, and don't loiter inside of 1K of the bombers. Only time you should be within 1k of bombers is when you're making a high speed attack run.
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Best attacking position in any fighter is from directly above. Build up lots of speed, hit them hard and fast, and then get out of their gun range as quickly as possible (which is easy since you have now built up lots of speed in a dive).
Best place to aim is for the wings, specifically between the inboard engine and fuselage. Hit them there and 9 times out of 10 they burst into flames from just a few rounds.
Attacking bombers takes patience. Set up the perfect attack approach to minimize the effectiveness of return fire from the bombers, make sure to land at least some hits to maybe kill some gunners or just damage their plane, and don't loiter inside of 1K of the bombers. Only time you should be within 1k of bombers is when you're making a high speed attack run.
These are important points by Latrobe.
To add.
1. Climb out ahead of the bombers while maintaining 1k distance. This is where patiences comes into play. You want to be out front and above the bombers by 1k before making your attack.
2. Roll over and attack the bombers from a forward top/side angle and drill them from their top 10-11 or 1-2 o'clock position. As Latrobe said either go for the wings, or aim directly on the cockpit.
When you go underneath the bombers pull level and get about 1k away (you will want to be underneath extending away from the right or left side.) Never extend directly behind them. Again patience plays a part here, dont lose your speed.
When you are 1k away pull up above the bombers and again extend until you are above and in front of the bombers. Then roll over rinse and repeat.
I have found this is one of the hardest shots for bombers to make. From the 9-10-11 oclock positions and from the 1-2-3 o'clock positions.
If you are attacking a hoard of bombers. Start from the outside bombers and pick them off either from right to left or left to right. So say I'm going for the guy on the left of the group. I will be 1k away to the left of the entire group and will climb 1k above to be higher than them. When I'm ready. I'll roll over to the right, attack the first left bomber from the top 1-2 o'clock positions and when I go under the bombers roll back slight right (away from the group) and I'll be able to extend the other direction so that I do not go under the entire fleet of bombers. Then I'll pull up after 1k extend climb back to front top position. Rinse and repeat.
Patience and aimimg and position are your biggest challenges and are the most important to attacking those pesky bombers.
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A good way to throw of a bomber gunners aim is to dive out in front of them, and only once your in firing range do you pull in to make your shots. It doesn't allow you to really lean into them but I find is the safest approach.
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+1.
Hitting the wing root is critical. It's less about hitting power than it is about aim. Its entirely possible to wipe out a buff formation with a 4x .50 gun package. I've done it using an FM2.
Be advised that in the event of 999000 you may experience severe rattling sounds and then death.
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When you make a high side slashing attack, if you point at the bombers you will end up on their 6. If you put the targeted bomber in a stationary position in your front/side view, you will merge with the bomber. If the bomber is moving forwards or back on the windscreen you need to adjust your flight path until it's stationary. This is one of the things you can practice with the offline bomber drones.
The guns on the P-38 are also good for long range shots because you don't have to consider a convergence point.
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I greatly appreciate all the advice and will put it to good use. Based on your replies I do need to concentrate on getting a good position on top of the bombers. The taunted laser like gun fire of the P-38 does offer considerable aim difficulty as compared to wing mounted guns.
I have tried many times to climb above a set of bombers in pursuit. That is very difficult and especially if they start climbing as well over 15000 ft.
Practice is what I need to do now.
Thanks guys.
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I have tried many times to climb above a set of bombers in pursuit. That is very difficult and especially if they start climbing as well over 15000 ft.
Practice is what I need to do now.
Thanks guys.
That is why patience is a key factor. You must get into this position every time you want to make a pass. Getting into that position may take a couple of extra minutes each pass. Attacking bombers is like seeing Christmas presents under the tree before Christmas. If you open them too early you will get in trouble.
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The vaunted laser like gun fire of the P-38 does offer considerable aim difficulty as compared to wing mounted guns.
It's easier to get hits when your converged guns have spread out past the convergence point but you want concentrated fire to do damage. Aiming is the same in either case.
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It's easier to get hits when your converged guns have spread out past the convergence point but you want concentrated fire to do damage. Aiming is the same in either case.
Wing mounted guns are generally easier to get bullets on target with though. If you align your wings so they are along the line of travel of the bomber, when you make your attack run slashing attack both banks will hit somewhat on the way through. With the 38 and pretty much all nose mounted guns, you have to hit with the small circle of fire rather than a 'strip' of fire with wing mounted guns.
If you can hit with it, the 38 hits hard, but you need to be able to direct that small cone of fire accurately.
Wiley.
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I said it's easier to get hits with converged guns (wing mounted) but you say wing mounted (converged) guns are easier to get hits with. Good point! :D
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When attacking bombers, I use the overhead attack method.
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I said it's easier to get hits with converged guns (wing mounted) but you say wing mounted (converged) guns are easier to get hits with. Good point! :D
LOL sorry folks I didn't quite emphasize the point that was going through my head I guess. The wings parallel to direction of travel was what I was pointing out was important.
With nose guns, orientation doesn't matter much. With wing mounted, if you attack with your wings perpendicular to the direction of travel you may get just as many hit sprites outside of convergence, but they're going to be on different areas of the wing. The way the DM works, that's generally going to be less effective than aligning your wings to put the crossing shot in the same location.
I am also in the overhead is my favorite spot club. The only thing I don't like about it is the better gunners seem to be only slightly less effective than at dead six if you come straight down on them. I find the best compromise is generally coming in at around 60 degrees or higher (ish, I don't generally think in numbers when I'm flying. Fairly steep dive in any case) to give them multiple vectors to solve for with their gunnery.
Wiley.
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That was a good point Wiley, it was just funny the way you phrased the first sentence.
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That is why patience is a key factor. You must get into this position every time you want to make a pass. Getting into that position may take a couple of extra minutes each pass. Attacking bombers is like seeing Christmas presents under the tree before Christmas. If you open them too early you will get in trouble.
When attacking bombers, I use the overhead attack method.
There will be some bombers that I will just have to let go because I just would not be able to achieve a good position given the SA at that time. Either that or take a very high risk shot. I think I have learned my lesson. Good stuff.
That was a good point Wiley, it was just funny the way you phrased the first sentence.
FLS would argue with a skunk on a stump. :)
I will use Wiley's slashing method on the P-47.
Good stuff from all. The P-38 is my favorite with the P-47 being a close second. If I can be more successful in my attacks on bombers it will round my game out quite well.
Thanks again.
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My favourite with the mossie is the uppercut attack - from low 12 into their chin. They are completely unready for this and the only way to fire at you is from the ball position rotated forward, and after you blow through, they have to jump to the rear or top position and quickly acquire you as you distance yourself with both your speeds combined. The 38 can pull this off as well when it still has the cannon. With just the 0.5s it lacks the punch to make this a sure-fire kill.
Latrobe make a good point about the maneuverings bombers. If the drones get drawn away from the lead - go for the drones. Most players just go after the one with the icon even when it makes no sense. The time to hit the lead is when he is busy shooting at someone else.
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ME410 has like 10 different ways of ruining bombers.
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My favourite with the mossie is the uppercut attack - from low 12 into their chin.
I have tried this several times trying to perfect this shot. The problem, for me anyway, is getting an all too often pilot wound when pulling up from below. I think HTC models the lack of thick, bullet proof glass on the P-38 canopy top. Maybe the mossie has better top protection.
On a B26 this should be the perfect shot but that gunner position or F3 flying can pull the bombers away that shot without much trouble. I got killed once 1K dead below a B26 setting up for this attack.
I too shoot the drones first but I have seen them snap back into position like a warp.
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Randy, I have had no luck attacking buffs from below. As you are pulling up you are decelerating. If you are diving down you are accelerating so you are in their guns too long from below. Every one of my attacks are from 3.0 Icon range or more before I turn to attack and always always always from their 1:00, 12:00 or 11:00. I attack the lead first, and then try to get a few pings on their left or right AI as I fly past. I attack the lead first because if I only oil his engine, my next attack will always be on the AI's until they are dead. I do not attack the lead on the second and third pass when I have oiled his engine because in just a little while, he will lose that engine and his entire formation will slow because of it. This will make a huge difference if he is at altitude because he will slow down dramatically or have to start descending, making it easier on subsequent attacks.
If at any time you would like to ride along, please PM me and ask and I will be more than happy to have you ride along.
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I like to attack the Lead because he doesn't usually warp into me.
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FLS would argue with a skunk on a stump. :)
I wasn't arguing with Wiley. I was pointing out our agreement.
Remember my advice about looking for errors? :D
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I like to attack the Lead because he doesn't usually warp into me.
Given my druthers, I attack them in the order Right-Left-Lead. This will minimize warping, although if he's maneuvering hard all bets are off and I just make it a point not to get too close to the formation when that's happening.
Wiley.
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Given my druthers, I attack them in the order Right-Left-Lead. This will minimize warping, although if he's maneuvering hard all bets are off and I just make it a point not to get too close to the formation when that's happening.
Wiley.
This is actually the best order of attack. You have to consider that crossing over the top of the lead in order to get the drone may give the lead an easier shot over the top as well as underneath.
If the drones become seperated from the lead during a sharp turn, then consider attacking the drones.
Most "great" bomber pilots attempt to keep you on their 6 by making slight turning adjustments while also pushing nose down so it is hard to get ahead and over top of them.
If you attack under the nose from the 12 oclock position be prepared to nose down and and dive slightly to get away from the back gunners, turn to the left or right to throw off their aim.
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If at any time you would like to ride along, please PM me and ask and I will be more than happy to have you ride along.
Good offer Zoney. Thanks.
I really appreciate all the help. I have a pretty good game plane in mind by incorporating all the replies.
Bozon I need to spend sometime in the Mossie. Interesting plane.
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This is actually the best order of attack. You have to consider that crossing over the top of the lead in order to get the drone may give the lead an easier shot over the top as well as underneath.
I agree this is the best (safest) attack profile. The reason I choose to hit the lead and one AI on each attack run, (again, unless I oil the lead's engine), is because I'm going for the "Twofer". I love a "Twofer". Only thing better is the "Threefer", and someday I'd like to get a "Sixfer" like icepac did.
I attempt these "Twofers" because Wiley is my Wingy, and with him, you got to get the kills fast or he steals them. He's like that, then he calls me names.
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I agree this is the best (safest) attack profile. The reason I choose to hit the lead and one AI on each attack run, (again, unless I oil the lead's engine), is because I'm going for the "Twofer". I love a "Twofer". Only thing better is the "Threefer", and someday I'd like to get a "Sixfer" like icepac did.
I attempt these "Twofers" because Wiley is my Wingy, and with him, you got to get the kills fast or he steals them. He's like that, then he calls me names.
I have a great film of everything we are talking about that I took a few nights ago. Wish I could post the .ahf file on the boards. Icepac got me a FIVEFER insta proxies by HOing the massive group with rockets, it was hilarious. My other 3 kills were incorperating the metheds I have been discribing. It its a perfect example of some of the things we have described.
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Spent some time in offline practice trying to get my attack angle right as y'all suggested. Coming in high, and from in front from the 3 O'clock position gave me the best guns on time with the most damage. Collided several times in trying to get the pass right. Good practice on those drones bombers.
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Just wanted to thank everyone for the good advice. Tried Latrobe's tactics last night and with a K4 against B17s. It worked well until I ran out of ammo. Thanks.
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I fly bombers 90% of the time. My one weakness is when an interceptor drops down on my buffs. The closer to the 3 or 9 o clock position while dropping in can be damn near impossible to defend against if they have a lot of speed. I have found in this situation the only way to defend against this is to set auto climb to 110, engage it, and turn into the plane attacking while spray and praying. I'd say against really good players who attack from this position I've got a 25% chance of not loosing all my buffs if I use this counter move.
Latrobe is right simply turning away is suicide for buffs. Attacking any other way against me in buffs and it doesn't end well for the other guy. This is why I have no problem climbing to 20k for wf/base shutdown runs and +30k on strat runs cause I virtually take away this attack. Player has to be in position already and if he is he deserves the kills! Hope this helps.
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I wanted to add simply slashing from the side of a buff at any speed will end badly if the player is good with the guns. It's easier to get a firing solution on an interceptor if he slashes from the side from my experience. Simply have to guess a good lead and allow the target to come into the line of fire. Very easy to pilot wound or smoke em when the slash from the side. Practice dropping in at angles of 45-90 degrees starting about 2-3k above the target.