Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Mister Fork on March 02, 2015, 09:38:24 AM
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I have a F-350 CREW Lariat 4x4 with the Scorpion 6.7L diesel engine. To be honest, I like the engine and it's towing capability, but everything else Ford put into this truck seems sub-par quality. Cheap feeling/looking plastic adorn my 2013 truck that was $60k new. It has been into the shop for lots of weird poor quality issues - squealing front end, rear diff bearings, front wheel bearings and seals, death-wobble at 30MPH exactly that the dealership can't replicate (or won't), and that frucking MyTouch (or as my wife calls it - DON'TOUCH) which has more glitches than Windows ME. To date, I've had it in 17 times for issues. 17 TIMES!
My friend has a 2014 RAM Diesel 4x4 3500 Laraine (basically the exact competition model from Dodge against the Ford Lariat) and his truck seems like a completely different quality of vehicle. The interior trim feels very rich, quality stereo components, a touch screen menu system that works, and the truck actually feels more solid than my F-350. It was exactly the same price too. It also has a tonne more features - like heated steering wheel, auto 4x4, and the interior quality is 5X what my Ford has.
I haven't driven the GMC/Chev equivalent, but when I was buying my Ford, rear leg room was non existent for adults, and the rear seats were only half height. I'm not sure of the current models, but I've heard it's improved. I did think the Chev had the best ride of the three as before my Ford I had a GMC Sierra which I loved the ride.
This spring, I plan to dump my Ford and get something less problematic. But what do I replace it with?
Anyone here own a newer GMC 4x4 2500/3500 diesel truck? Opinions?
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I don't know what you're hauling or your transmission preference, but Dodge screwed up royally in 2010 when they decided (I'm told as a concession to the EPA) you could no longer get anything but a 3.73 rear end in a manual tranny 3500. You'll get the 4.10's in an auto, but automatic transmissions are for the weak and uncoordinated, right? :D
Seriously, it made a huge difference. An 03 Cummins with less torque and HP would handily out pull the '10... mostly because of the gears. To get the same pulling performance, you have to spend another several thousand dollars for the tuner, clutch, labor, new exhaust, etc. The 2010 had about 271 scrubbing chambers that served to choke the life out of the truck even more. :mad:
It's just not right to spend $60k on a new truck and then feel like you've got to spend more to get it the way you want it. :bhead
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Personally I prefer the Dogge given the cummins engine and now Dodge also adopted a bit earlier than the competition the new towing standards. I also had a Ford f350 dually for a while. It was a gutless wonder and had issues with the glow plugs.
I have to ask what are you towing and how heavy? Bumper pull or 5th wheel?
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I have owned all three, cummins Dmax and powerstroke. I currently have a cummins with a manual trans. My dodge pulls the hardest (maybe because I'm rolling with 600hp and 1100ftlb of torque) but my favorite has been my duramax. Only isssue with new Dmax is the fuel pump design being a cp4. The older cp3 was a lot more reliable and didn't cause catastrophic fuel system failure. Warrenty won't cover it either as they say its "from bad fuel" but it's not always that. Will cost you 10k for it to be fixed when it Goes. 6.7 cummins is known for popping head gaskets, 6.7 ford is eating turbos, 6.6 dmax might trash the fuel sytem.
The ride of gmc is alot better than the other simply from it being IFS front suspension and not solid axel like dodge and ford.
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Simple break down
Buy a ford if you are lookin for a work truck
Cummins for towing heavy all the time
Chevy for day to day driving with some towing and also if you want to go fast.
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Wasn't an uncommon fight my dmax pulling my ford around... :O(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b461/snax6/IMG_4235_zpsbzsetrrp.jpg) (http://s1046.photobucket.com/user/snax6/media/IMG_4235_zpsbzsetrrp.jpg.html)
New rig(http://i1046.photobucket.com/albums/b461/snax6/IMG_4993_zpsekqwznjc.jpg) (http://s1046.photobucket.com/user/snax6/media/IMG_4993_zpsekqwznjc.jpg.html)
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I've always had Chevys and never had issues. On the old 03 I knocked my exhaust off plowing and had to put an aftermarket one on that made it a bit loud, but not Chevys fault of course. That particular one was not great on the road mainly because I had big plow tires on it. All of mine have towed my snowmobile trailers and gooseneck trailers with no problem.
I guess it comes down to what Jo said, what you pull and how often.
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Personally I prefer the Dogge given the cummins engine and now Dodge also adopted a bit earlier than the competition the new towing standards. I also had a Ford f350 dually for a while. It was a gutless wonder and had issues with the glow plugs.
I have to ask what are you towing and how heavy? Bumper pull or 5th wheel?
Bumper pull. It's my O&G work truck for winter and family camping vehicle for summer. I also really like the rear space in the back - adults don't feel cramped back there.
Didn't know the GM had a different front end - probably also has a better turning radius. I also like the idea of getting a manual Dodge 2500 diesel and doing the DEF delete when it's off warranty - that could be a fun truck to own.
Ok - food for thought. More items to consider. Thanks for your input guys.
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Bumper pull. It's my O&G work truck for winter and family camping vehicle for summer. I also really like the rear space in the back - adults don't feel cramped back there.
Didn't know the GM had a different front end - probably also has a better turning radius. I also like the idea of getting a manual Dodge 2500 diesel and doing the DEF delete when it's off warranty - that could be a fun truck to own.
Ok - food for thought. More items to consider. Thanks for your input guys.
GM is the only manufacture that uses Independant front suspension in the medium duty market. 2010 is the last year for the manual in the dodge. You still have the fancy 4th gen body which you said you enjoy. The bigger issue is removing the EGR, that is by far the most damaging to Diesel engines. Tuning and deletes are the best thing you can do for any new diesel. Improved fuel economy, engine runs 100% better, and more power.
Also having to add DEF fluid sucks when it's 3$ a gallon.
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Recently had reps come in from cummins bridgeway where they talked about getting rid of the EGR systems in their new line of engines in heavy equipment market. What is going to happen is they are going to run the engines hotter and then DPF issues will become less of an issue as soot won't build up and clog like in the new systems.
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Recently had reps come in from cummins bridgeway where they talked about getting rid of the EGR systems in their new line of engines in heavy equipment market. What is going to happen is they are going to run the engines hotter and then DPF issues will become less of an issue as carbon won't build up and clog like in the new systems.
Maybe wait then? In Canada, the RAM Diesel 2500/3500 still are offered in 6-speed manuals... :P
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(http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w653/scottyd66/2012-09-15_19-09-35_290_zpsab7326db.jpg) (http://s1334.photobucket.com/user/scottyd66/media/2012-09-15_19-09-35_290_zpsab7326db.jpg.html) my diesel :salute
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How do you find parking spaces scotty!! lol
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Maybe wait then? In Canada, the RAM Diesel 2500/3500 still are offered in 6-speed manuals... :P
I didn't know in canada they did that, supposedly the manual will come back in U.S market. In all honestly ill hold tight with what you have and wait for the new tier of emission equipped trucks. They are getting better, slowly but surely.
2016 will be a year where changes will happen again.
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we had a guy get locked up recently up here in new england after he started flipping out shooting parked cars that were parked in apparently preshoveled spaces.. if you're up here in new england or in northern city areas you know what this guy was dealing with
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I also had a Ford f350 dually for a while.
Lucky you ... I still do :uhoh
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa135/olythekid/20141213_102020-1_zpsbczee1az.jpg) (http://s199.photobucket.com/user/olythekid/media/20141213_102020-1_zpsbczee1az.jpg.html)
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Word also was at one time recently that Cummins has, or is working on something where they will not have to run DEF. Isuzu is getting close to having the same thing for their bigger engines as well.
DEF at $3 a gallon seems pretty cheap to me Joach1m, how much are you using that your complaining about it? A 2 1/2 gal jug of the John Deere DEF runs us about $12. I use that in my service truck and I can run at least 200 gallons of diesel thru with that much, provided I use straight up diesel, no bio.
I avoid that stuff like the plague, and always run a fuel treatment conditioner as well year round.
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Word also was at one time recently that Cummins has, or is working on something where they will not have to run DEF. Isuzu is getting close to having the same thing for their bigger engines as well.
DEF at $3 a gallon seems pretty cheap to me Joach1m, how much are you using that your complaining about it? A 2 1/2 gal jug of the John Deere DEF runs us about $12. I use that in my service truck and I can run at least 200 gallons of diesel thru with that much, provided I use straight up diesel, no bio.
I avoid that stuff like the plague, and always run a fuel treatment conditioner as well year round.
my cummins luckily doesn't use DEF I have a DPF system
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Word also was at one time recently that Cummins has, or is working on something where they will not have to run DEF. Isuzu is getting close to having the same thing for their bigger engines as well.
DEF at $3 a gallon seems pretty cheap to me Joach1m, how much are you using that your complaining about it? A 2 1/2 gal jug of the John Deere DEF runs us about $12. I use that in my service truck and I can run at least 200 gallons of diesel thru with that much, provided I use straight up diesel, no bio.
I avoid that stuff like the plague, and always run a fuel treatment conditioner as well year round.
fleet management records are showing we are using 2-300$ a week in just DEF fluid.
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(http://i1334.photobucket.com/albums/w653/scottyd66/2012-09-15_19-09-35_290_zpsab7326db.jpg) (http://s1334.photobucket.com/user/scottyd66/media/2012-09-15_19-09-35_290_zpsab7326db.jpg.html) my diesel :salute
Question: Why aren't euro trucks more popular in the US? Price? They have 25-35% more power and load carrying ability typically.
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(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n580/rpm371/Cornbinder.jpg)
Bulletproof.
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I'm on Duramax number 3, this spring/summer we'll be trading/selling and getting a couple of new cars, and likely for next winter a new diesel truck, so I'm in the same boat trying to decide which is the best option. I have no real brand loyalty, I just want whatever is the best for 2015 or 16. I tow moderate loads at the most, it's mainly a winter vehicle, as in the winter months we have some poor roads with deep snow due to the location of where we stay in the cold season, and a truck with good winter tires and 4x4 is necessary.
(http://www.mediafire.com/convkey/9eb0/hbtba8cso4ss4syzg.jpg)
I've had good luck with Chevy, a 2003, 2006, and 2010. The 2010 has been so good I'm almost hesitant to let it go.
I wouldn't mind taking a look at the new Dodge. We nearly bought a gas truck, one of the Ford Raptors, but for the cost, everything Fork said about the quality of the interior with his Ford was my big problem with it, it was like a mid 80s Corvette wherever I touched plastic. Pass.
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Question: Why aren't euro trucks more popular in the US? Price? They have 25-35% more power and load carrying ability typically.
good question..maybe it's a design thing or just haven't been exposed or given that option with euro trucks
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(http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n580/rpm371/Cornbinder.jpg)
Bulletproof.
oh know a 6leaker! ;)
I really do love those trucks. :aok
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Problem is with the ford is that that that 6.7 hasn't been out long enough to find out if it is truly a solid engine. The early ones ruined turbos because someone thought ceramic bearings would hold up to 1400+ temps :rolleyes:
Dodges new auto trans mission 68re and 68rfe are fine with stock emission equipped trucks, but adding any power to then kills them. Along with head gaskets popping. But if you are any mechanically inclined you can put head studs on them for less that 500$.
Dmax only issue is the CP4 pump (trucks 2013+) failure that will trash the injectors aswell.
Id say drive all of them and decide which one is for you.
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fleet management records are showing we are using 2-300$ a week in just DEF fluid.
In a fleet I can see that happening, of course it also is dependent on fleet size as well. The really sad issue of it all is simply the Government mandates. You won't find a rep of any kind anywhere from a major engine manufacturer that will say their company was happy to make the engines run cleaner.
The automotive/trucking industry was hardest hit, they simply didn't have the time to design and test ( hence why CAT pulled out of the truck engine market when they did) . Those of us on the AG/Construction side had a little more breathing room. Our FT4 motors now get better fuel economy, and pump more power than the IT4 / stage 3b motors for sure, and they do it without going into derate when running. We are seeing up to 10,000 hours on DPF's as well..... thankfully.
One thing I would tell anyone who is looking at a diesel truck is this. Regardless of brand, or motor.... You cannot do enough to make sure you have quality fuel, the fuel quality in this country is not great by any means. Stay away from bios, don't store more than 30 days, buy from stations or distributors that you know are turning over product. USE CONDITIONERS and also ANTI BACTERIAL additives in your tanks if you suspect you may possibly have a water issue, be it in the vehicle tank or storage tanks. Keep the filters changed!!
Now on the 3 brands, GM is going to give the flat out best ride, it's what they do. I like to think that the Ford is going to be a really good motor, I know presently they have had some issues, but reflash of the ECU has been the cure for the issues they have experienced thus far.
The Dodge is a solid truck, and the cummins you can get worked on at most any decent truck dealership along the highways and byways..
Otherwise as stated, drive em all! Pick the one you like! Good luck!
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Drove all three brands while I was employed with the oilfield service company the past few years.
Started out with Dodge Cummins 3/4 ton trucks. I liked them, til two of them left me stranded out in the boonies. All of the Cummins trucks in the fleet pretty much stayed at the dealership having one thing or another fixed.
The Ford Powerstrokes had nifty features like the back up cameras, but the four trucks all had to visit the dealership numerous times to have the front suspension rebuilt.
I ended up in a brand new 2013 Chevy 2500HD Duramax in October of 2012. I had heard bad things about them, but have to say that of all three brands that company had in service, and that I used on a routine basis, it was my favorite. At the same time that I got the new truck they issued me a new travel trailer, bumper pull, that weighed in about 1500lbs heavier than the one I was hauling around with my previous truck, a 2012 Cummins.
Where the Cummins was struggling to get up to highway speed, and was all over the road at 60-65 mph, the Duramax just kept on going and going. First time I got on the highway with the Duramax and the new heavier trailer, being used to the Cummins having to struggle to pick up speed, I looked down and was at 85 mph and still climbing. Had to remember to always set the cruise at 65 when I had that Duramax to keep from going over the limits of the tires and the speed limit.
The Dodge truck, well pretty much all the new trucks I think, had an issue with idling. Idle for any length of time and you had to go for a drive to clean the DPF or "regenerate" as the Dodges called it. The 2012 Dodge would require several drives a day, sometimes after only an hour of idling. The Duramax would require similiar drives, but far less frequently.
The only thing the Chevy ever saw the shop for was the switch on the brake to allow you to shift out of park.......I had no problems whatsoever with it other than that.
When I decided to go into business for myself, I ended up getting an older Duramax, a 2003 model, as they have little or no emissions equipment to worry about.
My only complaint about this truck, and it's one I could have avoided by getting a two year newer model, is the lack of a 6th gear. I got so used to cruising at 70-75 mph with the engine between 1500 and 2000 rpm that this truck just sounds busier......took a while to get used to it. It pulls everything the 2013 model did (actually, my fifth wheel weighs in at 14500, where the bumper pull the 2013 pulled was just under 11K) and gets similiar mpg.
Just my experiences with the domestic diesels. Your mileage my vary............ :aok
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I have owned all three, cummins Dmax and powerstroke. I currently have a cummins with a manual trans. My dodge pulls the hardest (maybe because I'm rolling with 600hp and 1100ftlb of torque) but my favorite has been my duramax. Only isssue with new Dmax is the fuel pump design being a cp4. The older cp3 was a lot more reliable and didn't cause catastrophic fuel system failure. Warrenty won't cover it either as they say its "from bad fuel" but it's not always that. Will cost you 10k for it to be fixed when it Goes. 6.7 cummins is known for popping head gaskets, 6.7 ford is eating turbos, 6.6 dmax might trash the fuel sytem.
The ride of gmc is alot better than the other simply from it being IFS front suspension and not solid axel like dodge and ford.
I used to work for a Chevy Dealer as a technician. The fuel injectors are the only fault on the Dmax, but they crap out on every one. Guaranteed. I believe that there's a warranty special policy adjustment that covers the injectors up to 100K miles ore maybe more. I left the industry 3 years ago, so my memory is a bit fuzzy on specifics. Hope you weren't getting hosed, because shelling out an unnecessary 10K is bullcrap.
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Here in Canada they cover the injectors up to 10 years or over 200km frequently. I've been very lucky, no failures yet. 150k miles on my 2010. Fingers crossed for another 6 months.
I would be happy with a new Duramax, but I'm liking what I see with the Dodge.
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I used to work for a Chevy Dealer as a technician. The fuel injectors are the only fault on the Dmax, but they crap out on every one. Guaranteed. I believe that there's a warranty special policy adjustment that covers the injectors up to 100K miles ore maybe more. I left the industry 3 years ago, so my memory is a bit fuzzy on specifics. Hope you weren't getting hosed, because shelling out an unnecessary 10K is bullcrap.
that would be the early 01-04 models. Lb7 engine name lly,lbz,LMM,lml were a lot better
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In a fleet I can see that happening, of course it also is dependent on fleet size as well. The really sad issue of it all is simply the Government mandates. You won't find a rep of any kind anywhere from a major engine manufacturer that will say their company was happy to make the engines run cleaner.
The automotive/trucking industry was hardest hit, they simply didn't have the time to design and test ( hence why CAT pulled out of the truck engine market when they did) . Those of us on the AG/Construction side had a little more breathing room. Our FT4 motors now get better fuel economy, and pump more power than the IT4 / stage 3b motors for sure, and they do it without going into derate when running. We are seeing up to 10,000 hours on DPF's as well..... thankfully.
One thing I would tell anyone who is looking at a diesel truck is this. Regardless of brand, or motor.... You cannot do enough to make sure you have quality fuel, the fuel quality in this country is not great by any means. Stay away from bios, don't store more than 30 days, buy from stations or distributors that you know are turning over product. USE CONDITIONERS and also ANTI BACTERIAL additives in your tanks if you suspect you may possibly have a water issue, be it in the vehicle tank or storage tanks. Keep the filters changed!!
Now on the 3 brands, GM is going to give the flat out best ride, it's what they do. I like to think that the Ford is going to be a really good motor, I know presently they have had some issues, but reflash of the ECU has been the cure for the issues they have experienced thus far.
The Dodge is a solid truck, and the cummins you can get worked on at most any decent truck dealership along the highways and byways..
Otherwise as stated, drive em all! Pick the one you like! Good luck!
The only way a lot of manufactures are getting away with emmissionless diesels In heavy equipment is having high horse power engines. Claus is putting 850hp Mercedes engines in their equipment now.
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that would be the early 01-04 models. Lb7 engine name lly,lbz,LMM,lml were a lot better
They were still an issue on the later on the later models as well.
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Still driving my 1999 F-350, Crew cab Dually with the 7.3 liter Diesel, 240k so far.
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Still driving my 1999 F-350, Crew cab Dually with the 7.3 liter Diesel, 240k so far.
thats what i'm talking about.. hopefully another 200k
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They were still an issue on the later on the later models as well.
hmm I had 200k on my 07 and my flow and return rates were almost perfect. :O
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i wish my my ninja 600 was diesel maybe it wound't be quite so disposable.. but at the same time it was exciting as could be when that rear wheel was putting 100 plus horsepower to the ground in such a light package!! :police:
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How about the F650
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/13/fb/f2/13fbf266c4e0a77cdc25b0cb4678eeec.jpg)
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How about the F650
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/13/fb/f2/13fbf266c4e0a77cdc25b0cb4678eeec.jpg)
Bet you it has a cummins in it :)
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Lawndart, I love those uber-trucks, I've ridden in a quad cabbed Top Kick that had 2 huge air suspended front buckets and 3 across in the rear row that could come out and have a pretty wide custom bed put in for long trips/camping and whatever. Very cool, but very impractical in the city so far as parking, or even in narrow lanes.
I think that Ford looks way better than the GMC Top Kick variants like it, in fact that's the nicest one I've seen. I wonder what powertrain he has in that one. I bet that's easily a 6 figure truck, the Top Kick I was in cost more than the owner's Zr1 at the time. Look at the size of that fuel tank.
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I bet it is a Cummins engine and backed with an Alison tranny.
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I haven't ran into many people who said many things bad about the Allison. :)
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I haven't ran into many people who said many things bad about the Allison. :)
I could show you different, but I am not one who had an issue with one. :)
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Cool looking truck for sure :aok
My current service truck is a 2015 F-750. Cummins motor (6.7) with Allison trans. No complaints about the powertrain so far, seems to do ok given the way it is setup and weight (27,500lbs) . I like the interior, and all the goodies ( sync system, power windows, nice sound system, air seat, tilt, cruise, air, heated mirrors) but the seating position??? if your over 5'11" it SUCKS!! and I am around 6'3" :huh
The lack of an upright rider cab is a joke! (I at one time heard they were going to reintroduce a cab that would be reminiscent of the old Louisville cabs)
My 03 4400 IH was tons better all around in that aspect, and the 466 in it was bullet proof. I had over 17,000 hours on that motor, it was got an in chassis at 13,000 hours ( piston kits, bearings, gaskets, and head work.... nothing else) Trans (allison) was never touched except for normal service.
Even the big diesel motors will have their day of reckoning, it's just a matter of time. Even the railroads will have emission regs on locomotives when all said and done.
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A lot of the industry is moving to natural gas.