Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: Devil 505 on March 11, 2015, 12:14:43 AM
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White-9 was flown by Georg Amon in spring of '43 from Sicily.
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Seeman1_zps4d05dupc.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/Aces%20High/Seeman1_zps4d05dupc.png.html)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Seeman2_zpsg871ja9h.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/Aces%20High/Seeman2_zpsg871ja9h.png.html)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Aces%20High/Seeman3_zpsmuv0an8u.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/Aces%20High/Seeman3_zpsmuv0an8u.png.html)
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It is a nice skin, and the work is much appreciated, but why are there so many rivets? :(
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It looks great! The fading, weathering, everything. Are you submitting these skins? You must have a great video card too because your screenshots are outstanding.
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Beautiful skin Devil, great work. :aok
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:aok
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Very nice!
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Very nice skin! but I do have one critic and that is I can see gondolas attached to the plane. Please remove those from future 109s as it takes away from the beauty of the plane. :D
:aok
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The 'other' skin master :cheers:
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Wtg Devil Hope this is in the game before May's FSO We will be over there that month
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Wtg Devil Hope this is in the game before May's FSO We will be over there that month
Oh really?... This will be ready for May. :salute
of course this means I have to crank out a Jg77 G-6 as well - as if I'm not already up to my eyeballs in G-6s as it is! :devil
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Spent some time looking at walk around sites for 109's and close-up photo's of parked planes from ww2.
Krup is correct in his observation. Fuselage lines are barely seen aft of the main engine cover lines. The impression is that they are filled before painting or the panel joining is very tight. Rivets are not that pronounced unless seen at an angled light source, nor do so many pronounced lines show on the tops of wings without a light source.
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Spent some time looking at walk around sites for 109's and close-up photo's of parked planes from ww2.
Krup is correct in his observation. Fuselage lines are barely seen aft of the main engine cover lines. The impression is that they are filled before painting or the panel joining is very tight. Rivets are not that pronounced unless seen at an angled light source, nor do so many pronounced lines show on the tops of wings without a light source.
I can assure you that only in rare cases were the panel joints filled and sanded. Also, the dimensions of the game bitmap versus actual aircraft ensure that these details are not able to be scaled proportionally. This is also a problem with the historical photos, the human eye can pick out these details better than period cameras from the same range. While lighting is always a consideration, I don't believe that it plays as big a role in making those details more or less apparent as you do. Lighting conditions are just as apt to wash out details as they are to enhance them. Therefore, it comes down to artistic license. I choose to have these details because I feel that without them the skin becomes too flat and characterless - it's boring to look at.
And here's some photos of this exact aircraft and others that clearly show rivets and panel lines that aren't merely hatch gaps.
(http://i.imgur.com/7ayKJDI.jpg)
(http://www.57thfightergroup.org/pictures/64/images/27.jpg)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Hackler_zpsckuj7mqf.png~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/Hackler_zpsckuj7mqf.png.html)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/PrillerCard_zpsdt1tu4tb.jpg~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/PrillerCard_zpsdt1tu4tb.jpg.html)
(http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff252/DropkickYankees/Silva_zpspwh6fltg.jpg~original) (http://s241.photobucket.com/user/DropkickYankees/media/Silva_zpspwh6fltg.jpg.html)
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Your rendition of the weathered rivets and lines mostly are too heavy.
Panel lines on the fuselage from the rear of the wing forward show up in photos with the most pronounced panel line the rear of the engine cover at the wing root. From the rear of the cockpit back they are not as evident unless light reveals it even in walk-arounds. Rivets on 109s show majority much more subtly opposed to even spits. Recessed screws show because of size, the slots, and usage. Yes I also visited spit walk-around sites to make panel and rivet comparisons.
Still, if Krup was inspired to make a comment, you are a tad heavy on your lines and rivets for a 109. I've known Krup for many years, so I made the effort to visit as many walk around sites as I could and ww2 photos. Black and white photos that are then re-rendered for publication in books will make lines heavier and even blurrier than real life or the original due to the rendering process. My wife's father worked as a printer for 30 years after he mustered out of the NAVY from ww2, long before PC's existed.
And if the original black and white photo was not used, then the grains representing the lines will become thicker with each re-rendering of the copy of a copy. And you don't know how much cleaning up and enhancement someone did just to make details show up in the publication the BnW photo went into. Color photos from ww2 are more faithful to the rendering of lines and how much of that line is "light" play versus physical line and dirt than BnW which translates "light" play into shades of black and gray, or thicker lines, or rings, or shapes.
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Your rendition of the weathered rivets and lines mostly are too heavy.
Again, I'll emphasize the need and use of artistic license.
For my skins, and I assume most others, panel lines and rivets are a size of one pixel. For the upper engine hatch on the 109, I use a width of two pixels to represent the more noticeable gaps there. Also, curves lines are wider due to the nature of drawing curves. The lines are drawn in black and reduced in opacity to 15%, the rivets to 10%. Rivets are by their nature less visible than panel lines, but rivet opacity under 10% borders on total invisibility amongst the other layers of weathering I use. Truly scaled and visible panel lines and rivets are impossible, I choose to make details visible vs. true scale because of their artistic value to the overall skin.
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Just know that BnW photos make lines and structures thicker than real life where a color photo will show the color and shadow light gradient along with the real seam, panel or rivet outline's real width which is a much thinner line. BnW will also amplify the contrast between shades of color and turn small shadows into additional thickness of lines. Then exacerbate this with BnW grain rendering technology of old photos that have been copied.
Greebo seems to get this right more often. Or he isn't taking as much license.
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Nobody is trying to discredit your work Devil, but as you can see below, rivets are present and not nearly as abundant or pronounced as your skin. I'm sorry but they do not add artistic value, they subtract from it. Of course, that is my opinion.
(http://www.wallpaperup.com/uploads/wallpapers/2013/11/19/176959/bcc4d065eba7967df6eee13bba1cab24.jpg)
(http://www.worldwarphotos.info/wp-content/gallery/germany/aircrafts/messerschmitt-bf-109/Messerschmitt_Bf_109F-1.jpg)
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8251/8592694122_188da3d00a_b.jpg)
(http://www.bundesheer.at/archiv/a2005/airpower/galerie/vollbild/ap05_heinz_messerschmittbf109_004_sm.jpg)