General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Kruel on March 17, 2015, 09:04:39 AM
Title: RC Quadcopter
Post by: Kruel on March 17, 2015, 09:04:39 AM
Was wondering if anyone else is into these? Just bought my third after the first 2 were Chinese pieces of junk clones. (Syma X11). Ordered the Hubsan X4 ...
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: eagl on March 17, 2015, 12:32:03 PM
I got a "Parrot AR" of some sort as a gift from my Dad. It has a couple of cameras on it and it is controlled by a wifi connection from a smartphone or tablet. It is very cool and not too hard to fly. It can record video and has some extra "fun" modes like a button to flip the thing through a complete roll, and if you apply certain stickers to the chassis there is a race mode. I assume it uses the stickers for collision avoidance but I'm not sure since I don't use that mode.
It flies fine outdoors and has a foam bumper body that can be used for indoor flight or while you're learning how to not wreck it, and the bumper training body can be replaced by a much lighter body that protects just the electronics which gives better flight performance and endurance, at the cost of having no rotor protection. I crashed the thing at least 8 times the first time I flew it outdoors due to various dumb things like going too fast and not understanding that the automatic stabilization features were fighting my inputs in some situations. If you get over your head, just stop giving inputs and it very rapidly goes to a stabilized hover.
It's a very neat toy/gadget and I think its probably a good first quadcopter to get to learn about them before you get serious and start dropping real money into them. Its large enough to be stable and interesting, and while the cost isn't trivial (somewhere between $100-$200 I think) it flies much nicer than the super cheap IR ones. The camera and wifi control setup alone are huge steps up from the cheap toy quadcopters.
As for it being actually useful, it would be perfect for things like checking for roof damage after storms. It's also pretty much the 'perv model' with the forward looking camera and automatic stabilization, if you're the kind of person who wants to look in other people's yards or windows.
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: Kruel on March 17, 2015, 03:25:35 PM
Yeah Parrot is cool, but way too limited for that price, the little ones I got have a range of about 300 feet, for 50 bucks it ain't bad!
I like the camera view on it, have you seen the ones that you wear glasses so you can see through the camera? Sine have range of several miles!
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: Gman on March 18, 2015, 06:51:27 AM
I've built a few Kruel, I started with the 180qx predecessor from Blade (same thing just different name) which was a basic "you fly it all" set up, that was a good starter for a Quad. Then I bought a 350QX (nice but has like 80 bolts to take apart to get into it, which really, really sucks for modding and general maintenance).
Then I bought a Chinese DIJ like everyone else, a Phantom 2 Vision.
I then decided to get more into the true "hobbyist" platforms, the standard frame and then it's all pick what you want sort of deal. The FlameWheel 450 kit is probably the most common and popular, so I built one of these, from a good ARF kit complete with all the standard board stuff, GPS/Flight controller, added landing legs and so forth. I hooked up a mid range FatShark FPV camera and transmitter, no gimbal mount, but I can mount my GoPro Hero3 under the fuselage if I want.
IMO a frame up 450 build is the best bang for the $ for any quad, even for beginners. There are piles of "how to" videos on the net to help anyone build the ARF kit. This is a good place to start - http://www.helipal.com/dji-flamewheel-f450-combo-3-naza-lite-legs.html?osCsid=80drtihanoajf97mdj1vfonn22
Now, that said, Horizon recently partnered with MicroHeli to make a carbon fiber frame for the 350Qx. The huge downside to their 350 as I said, is all the bolts that are required to take apart the flimsy shell/body it has. Microheli makes good stuff, on all my Blade micros, from the mSR up to the 300 and 450 class Blade helis I fly I have their aftermarket steel replacement parts where possible(over a dozen, nearly every model, and I prefer to fly helis over quads, but quads have their place as well IMO), and the new frame they've made is excellent, and cheap at 130$.
This is the frame for the 350Qx - http://www.horizonhobby.com/350-size-multirotor-frame-kit--aluminum-carbon-fiber-p-mhe35qx005qk
And this is how it looks compared to the "old" version. Now it's far easier to work on, add components and features, and do upgrades and such. Plus it's far, far stronger, and lighter to boot. For the 400$ for a new 350 QX version 3 and 130$ for the new frame, for 550$-ish including some instal parts, this is one of the better quads for beginners out there now IMO, as it combines the hobbyist "frame up" build with the "already built and components set up" benefits of both ways of getting into a beginner quad.
And here are some flight videos.
So, for 550$ for the carbon fiber 350 quad, say another 250$ for a Fatshark FPV goggle+camera and mediocre Tx, and 199$ for a GoPro Hero cam, for the 1000$ the new BeBop with the Skycontroller costs, this setup BLOWS the bebop away IMO in so many departments. Plus you don't have to spend it all at once, just starting with the 550$ Quad before adding cameras allows somebody new to the hobby to stagger their costs, while still learning some flight skills.
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: Mister Fork on March 18, 2015, 09:11:27 AM
Great setup Gman... I can only imagine the military use for such a powerful setup. What's the range on it? And do you have a video link-up to pilot it via camera?
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: Kruel on March 18, 2015, 10:49:46 AM
Nice! I have my RC resource! Lol. I'm getting into it way slow, and enjoying the process, took my Hubsan X4 out and it's quite noticeably more powerful than the Syma X11. These are $100 set ups though. Including controller, quad, spare parts, 5x 500 mhA batteries and multi charger.
I will run this one through the ringer then upgrade to the Blade Nano FPV which comes with the FatShark glasses. (~$300)
After that then I will pick up a custom Storm 250 racer (~$450). Learn how to build my own from there...
I have a plan, and it's wonderfully expensive ...will be divorced in about a year lol.
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: Kruel on March 18, 2015, 10:53:35 AM
Will definitely look into that 450. I saw a guy with a Phantom at a picnic I went to recently. Looked awesome, but I don't really want to do the cameraman stuff, would rather get into some FPV racing :)
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: Gman on March 18, 2015, 03:24:48 PM
Depends on the antennas and power of the Tx/Rx setups. Some guys get well over 1000 meters crystal clear with their various goggles or LCDs on tripods. I hadn't thought about Eagl's idea of storm surveying for roof damage, that's a really good idea for quads/fpv/camera platforms IMO.
Great video here, of a guy flying circuits (local home owner gets mad, throws rocks, threatens with a bat..all kinds of fun in this vid), and it gives a good idea of what's possible with tech that's 2 years old now and getting very cheap. This entire video the pilot is sitting in a lawn chair stationary with LCD goggles on. His friend is observing and watching on a tripoded LCD as well. Kruel you could set up a cheap camera w/Fatshark or whatever brand goggs, and fly just like this with a decent little quad (albeit a bit slower, but there are advantages as well), and race about yourself to get experience and have some good clean fun.
That's the whole idea of FPV MrFork, to give you the "on board" view while flying. You can put a gimbal on the cameras and use the included "head tracking" capability that even the cheap goggles have now, so you can actually scan around your environment while "on board" the drone/quad. Most guys have a tripod with a split signal to an LCD so others can watch and laugh, and as a backup if you ever need to strip the goggles to fly visually, or in case of goggle failure and the drone being out of sight (most have an emergency beacon or tracking systems often called "telemetry" on board).
These Deep Reaper drones are cheap, light, able to fly very very low and slow for FPV flying, but do have some good power if you put a good electric power source on it to fly fast and high as well. The configuration of the flying wing is the best thing since sliced bread for FPV, the perfect platform IMO, and cheap as well. Pic below vid.
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: eagl on March 18, 2015, 05:06:55 PM
A good feature I'd want from a GPS/autopilot setup would be a failsafe mode that climbs the thing to 100ish ft above launch altitude, flies back to launch site, and then lowers for a landing at launch site. Triggers should be loss of TX signal or good signal but no commands received for 60 seconds, in the event of FPV fail beyond line of site with good command signal still present. That way just releasing the controls or commanding a brief climb then releasing controls would eventually trigger a return to launch site.
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: Dragon on March 18, 2015, 05:36:02 PM
A good feature I'd want from a GPS/autopilot setup would be a failsafe mode that climbs the thing to 100ish ft above launch altitude, flies back to launch site, and then lowers for a landing at launch site. Triggers should be loss of TX signal or good signal but no commands received for 60 seconds, in the event of FPV fail beyond line of site with good command signal still present. That way just releasing the controls or commanding a brief climb then releasing controls would eventually trigger a return to launch site.
That is available but it brings the price out of hobby range and jumps it into commercial drone range. There are a few more advances being introduced weekly though so just give it some time.
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: eagl on March 18, 2015, 05:43:20 PM
I remember reading something on the parrot AR site about a return to launch site failsafe... might be mistaken on what it does.
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: Gman on March 18, 2015, 06:27:26 PM
Many quads have something similar Eagl. The DIJ Phantoms in the 500 to 900$ range all have a "return home" function you can activate. Other more custom control boards allow you to program in failsafes exactly as you describe. The Blade QX 350 of mine (example in the vids) has a return to home base and land function. I've never "needed" it, but I've tested it, and it works incredibly well, and landed to within 1.5 meters accuracy from where it departed, and I had it from the whites of my local golf course behind our house to out past the pin on a 350 yard hole. It has a flow chart of what happens if there is a loss of signal from the transmitter to the receiver on the Quad - if it isn't flying and is on the ground, it just shuts off, if it's airborne, and has a good GPS lock on its departure point, it'll fly there and land vertically slowly. If it's lost lock, it'll descend slowly until it contacts a surface, then shut down. So, flying over water without floats needs to be done with caution, lol. Like I said, with a more complicated control board, all the conditions you spoke of can be programmed into the quad, but like Dragon said, it's a step up in terms of complication and cost. It is getting a lot cheaper now though.
It's at the point now that if you can think/dream it up Eagl, somebody else has already done it and created it, and it's usually pretty cheap. Guys like you with an aviation career where you had a lot of very complex navigation training/ability as well as low level flight stuff have an absolute BLAST with FPV stuff like the Deep Reaper style of models. The club I'm at for this spring is home base to the Snowbirds air demo team, and their XO is the guy in charge of the club (it's his last year with the team now). Many x RCAF and current RCAF guys from the base come and fly, and it's a great environment to hear their input on how all the tech has trickled down from their stuff to the hobby world, and a bit vice versa as well.
The quads really opened the hobby up to a lot of people, as flying the helos takes a lot more time to develop the skills to just be able to hover and fly box patterns and keep from crashing - quads are so stable that even in free flight mode, you have to actually TRY to crash them to hurt them much of the time.
As Dragon said, most of the sub 1000$ units have a basic "return home" function, but I've seen custom hobbyist "you build" arf kits that have controllers capable of doing exactly what you've described as well. The most remarkable thing in the hobby is the prices, things keep getting cooler and more affordable, with exceptions of course.
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: Sol75 on March 18, 2015, 07:44:03 PM
got myself a 3drobotics iris+, after having a 350qx. Let me say, the iris is amazing..it can be hand flown, follow a pre programmed flight plan, or be used in directed mode, where you use a laptop or tablet to dynamically assign waypoints in 3d space. All flight planning, and direced mode uses a google maps interface. You can dynamically change modes as well during flight, so you can watch the programmed flight on the video downlink, and then either take manual control with the radio, or do a dynamic waypoint, if you see something interesting. One really cool feature is the follow me mode. it will fly and aim the gopro gimble at you, up to 65mph, and can be set to circle, follow etc. This is done via the same device you use for the datalink to your tablet, phone, etc. right now, you have to set an altitude known to clear any obstacles in the path, but they are planning a firmware update which will allow for automated collision avoidance. I plan to use this mode to follow myself on my motorcycle this summer to make a cool riding video...
The price is up there compared to other quads, but is quite good for the feature set...right around a grand for the quad, camera gimble, and a couple extra battery packs. the only thing i dont like is, it has its own radio/transmitter setup for manual flight, so i cant bind it to my spektrum dx18 that i use for my other rc aircraft..
i use a gopro hero 3 black, to record hd video, and transmit live sd video, with a 900mhz video downlink, up to 5000 meters...
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: shotgunneeley on March 18, 2015, 10:11:05 PM
I've got a DJI Phantom 2 Vision + ordered up with a few accessories. We're wanting it to help promote our rural real estate and recreational timberland sales. Looks like I'll only be able to take oblique angled photos and videos, would've been friggin sweet if I could take vertical images so I could georecerence them to make aerial maps.
Wish me luck, my childhood toy copters all caught tree ack. i hope to work in some shark teeth nose art in there somehow :x
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: ghi on March 19, 2015, 09:26:36 PM
"FAA allows Amazon to fly drones experimentally" http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2015/03/19/faa-amazon-drones/25037111/
"Speedy delivery: Amazon launches 1-hour service in Miami area" http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article15355721.html
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: Kruel on March 20, 2015, 07:22:59 PM
ROFL Lost my Quad today :( Now I can't even wait for the delivery of another and found a local hobby shop to go buy another one :( ::crackhead scratch::
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: eagl on March 21, 2015, 10:15:35 AM
How did you lose it? Did you have identifying info on it so anyone who finds it can return it to you?
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: Kruel on March 24, 2015, 09:25:02 AM
I was flying it as normal and it seemed to go sideways on me, trying to recover it just kept going farther away and became a little spec in the sky I tried to cut the motors to have it crash but by then it was probably 2 blocks away, probably landed in someone's backyard/roof/tree/lake/ or pool.
I think I just might bite the bullet and get the Blade Nano QX FPV
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: Flench on March 24, 2015, 09:39:34 AM
I got mine all together but the controller board is fried and am waiting on a replacement .
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: Gman on March 24, 2015, 12:26:58 PM
It happens Kruel, I tell people all the time how fast they can come and go out of nowhere, when I'm in FPV at max forward speed, people NEVER see or hear it coming until I'm right on top of them, or past them even. It's very easy to lose them if you lose radio tx/rx, or even just lose sight of them at higher altitude, it can happen with a sneeze/cough or other distraction very easily.
That Blade Nano unit is VERY tiny, just be warned, it doesn't handle wind at all. If you can at ALL afford it, try and move up to at least the Blade 200 quad, it's a lot bigger, can handle some wind, and can be bought with the FPV stuff pre installed as well. I still recommend at least the 350 size, but the 200 isn't bad. My first quad was the precurser to the 180 that Blade sells now, it was called something else, had different colors, but was identical, and their first quad, and one of THE first quads offered as a cheap retail jobby. I still have it, and mount FPV on it, and it handles wind pretty well for the size, and the little motors still haven't died, I've only replaced a couple rotors, that's it. Not a bad option either, as like I said, the nano is NOT built for anything but indoor or very calm days.
The Blade 200 is about 165$ more than the Blade Nano with the RTF FPV gear and goggles, all ready to go, and it's well worth it. Another huge plus is that same Carbon Fiber kit I showed that you can convert the 350 to, is also made now for the 200, a recent addition. So, you can convert the 200 to a similar kit later if you want, and have a pretty bad little unit, and it's only 80$ for that frame kit.
I'm going to build this exact set up for some close range FPV stuff and for teaching other locals FPV flying, the Blade 200 on the carbon frame. It'll be a very cool little hot rod, and I plan on putting some pretty neat gear on it, but the FPV stuff that comes with the 200 FPV kit will be great already for medium/close range flights.
Here is a few of my Micros, the mQX on the far left is the grandfather of the entire Blade line of quads, their first, and the Nano is about half the size, not much bigger than any of the mSR types in the middle. The 180 is identical in almost every respect to that mQX, and can easily carry a small FPV or recording camera airborne, I've had this one at least 150 feet up in the air before, and it's going on 3 years old now, and still lives. I can post some pics of other larger quads if you're interested in seeing some options or close ups.
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: Flench on March 25, 2015, 06:22:57 AM
Gman you not running the FatShark goggles ? Shoot I love them . After I put the Dragon link on the TX with a patch antenna I have to have a spotter with me when I fly . I hate to lose it with thousand dollars worth of stuff on it . Got to get me a GoPro next .
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: Kruel on April 12, 2015, 01:49:22 AM
I bought RealFlight 7.5 and it is awesome! I have a quad copter video that I am going to make but I couldn't resist flying the F86 :)
Title: Re: RC Quadcopter
Post by: Flench on April 13, 2015, 07:35:43 AM