General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: ebfd11 on March 23, 2015, 02:59:32 PM
Title: Stolen Valor
Post by: ebfd11 on March 23, 2015, 02:59:32 PM
I know there a lot of military vets here and i was wondering if you know of someone who is commiting stolen valor here would you ..
A. Call him/her out with the proof you have.
B. PM and give the proof
c. Ignore it and let him hang him/herself out.
Also do you pm Skuzzy to have certain sig phrases deleted???
Opinions...comments..
LawnDart
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: FLOOB on March 23, 2015, 03:16:22 PM
You forgot D. You don't give a toejam because your occupation has never been your identity or a source of self validation and you cringe with embarrasement for both those who wrap themselves in their DD 214s and those wannabes who gnaw at your codpiece with salivating adulation.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: PR3D4TOR on March 23, 2015, 03:30:51 PM
^ Sig material! :rofl
Seriously though, I'd call him out.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Arlo on March 23, 2015, 04:01:48 PM
8 Ways to Spot A Phony
By Laura Bailey, Times Staff Writer
Wannabe war heroes aren't just the guys at bars telling tall tales about their glory days as a Navy SEAL or recon Marine. Impostor veterans infiltrate unit reunions, military events and even funerals. Most are former military members beefing up their image with employers and friends. Some are active-duty service members trying to get an edge at promotion boards. Some have never even seen the inside of a military base.
So the odds are you'll run into a faker at some point. But how can you tell for sure? If you think someone is an impostor, usually your first instinct is accurate, said FBI Special Agent Thomas A. Cottone Jr., the bureau's lead agent on medals fraud cases.
"If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is," he said.
Medal of Honor impostors are the easiest to expose because there are few living members and they maintain a tight network, Cottone said. There are only 130 living recipients, according to the Congressional Medal of Honor Society, which maintains a complete online list of recipients that can be checked to verify a suspicious story.
An independent investigator of phony veterans, B.G. "Jug" Burkett, said the men who impersonate war heroes gain from it personally and professionally. Burkett, author of the book "Stolen Valor," says the con often begins when a military member leaves or changes services. Once they're no longer with their peer group it becomes easier to lie, Burkett said. If they have doctored their records, their new peers don't bother to check them, he said.
The crime usually starts small, he said, typically beginning with tall tales at a social event. It often escalates when the story teller gets stuck in the lie, so he continues making up details to support the original lie. Then he might continue from there once he sees the benefit of the lie. The community might take him and make him the local war hero, for example.
"It's like knowing a sports hero," Burkett said. "Suddenly he's feeling better about himself. He's getting treated better." But medal fraud hunters are out to ruin those good feelings. They have special ways to decipher whether someone is the real deal, and while they wouldn't share all their tricks of the trade, they did disclose a few that you can use to help ferret out a phony.
1. Sketchy records. When asked to verify details of their military record, phonies often say they didn't go through the normal military channels, said Mike Sandborn, an FBI special agent and former Marine captain who works medals fraud cases. Sandborn said phonies will often say they were in high demand by the military and weren't required to go through the normal training.
2. Appearance matters. Impostors put on pretty lousy impersonations. They're often out of shape or have a "slovenly appearance in uniform," Sandborn said. If they look like "50 pounds of pork shoved into a 10-pound sack," Sandborn said, they're probably an impostor.
3. Top secret? Probably not. A phony often will say details of his career exploits are classified. But even with awards for classified actions, ceremonies are never top secret. Veterans claiming to have received an award should be able to produce an order granting it no matter how secretive the action.
4. "My dog ate it." Phonies often say their military documents were destroyed in a fire or some similar disaster.
5. Watch that rack. Check their decorations; phonies often wear medals in the wrong order or in disproportion to their time in service.
6. Check the birth date. When it comes to the Medal of Honor, age matters. According to the Congressional Medal of Honor Society, the youngest living recipient is 53-year-old Gordon R. Roberts. "If you see a young kid wearing a Medal of Honor, he's impersonating," said Gary Littrell, president of the society.
7. Just ask. Don't be afraid to test someone if you think they're faking, FBI agents say. If they're legit, they won't mind if you ask questions, Cottone said. Highly decorated veterans usually are very modest and rarely draw attention to their accomplishments; impostors love to boast. Sandborn cautioned troops to remember that "true heroism is like a river - the deeper it runs, the quieter it is."
8. Surf the Web. Still not sure? Check out the online databases of information about both real and phony war heroes. The site www.homeofheroes.com has a confidential online "bust a phony" form. Information submitted is turned over to the FBI. The Congressional Medal of Honor Society maintains a list of living MOH award recipients at www.cmohs.org. Also, www.pownetwork.org maintains a list of phony veterans.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 23, 2015, 04:33:07 PM
There is currently someone in game doing it, claiming to be an A-10 "Pig" pilot for the Louisiana ANG. When I called him out, he refused to provide any proof other than telling me to give him my phone number and friend him on Facebook so he could have his "squadron mates" and "Senior" (whoever that is supposed to be) set me straight.
ack-ack
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: JunkyII on March 23, 2015, 04:54:09 PM
There is a difference between stolen valor, and speaking of false service. Valorous awards are awards given for valorous acts Aka Bronze Star with valor device, Medal of Honor....Telling a lie about what you did in/for the service aka wearing a Ranger tab without ever going to Ranger School...well it's just a lie and a bit pathetic. It's not Valor, you need a Valorous situation to earn a valorous award aka pulling another Soldier from a burning MRAP, most people who do lie and steal valor wouldn't have the intestinal fortitude to handle such a situation. To forget about oneself in order to save anothers.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: glzsqd on March 23, 2015, 04:54:48 PM
There is currently someone in game doing it, claiming to be an A-10 "Pig" pilot for the Louisiana ANG. When I called him out, he refused to provide any proof other than telling me to give him my phone number and friend him on Facebook so he could have his "squadron mates" and "Senior" (whoever that is supposed to be) set me straight.
ack-ack
Is he the one who has a A-10 in his sig?
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: XxDaSTaRxx on March 23, 2015, 05:02:30 PM
If so, I'd never do anything of the sort. I'm just another college kid, I'm no Pig pilot.
Ack-Ack, the guy you're talking to isn't me, if your in suspicion of it being me.
You're not TheShrap.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: glzsqd on March 23, 2015, 05:16:53 PM
Ok I didn't think so. Kippy is a poser in a completely different way :neener:
JK, hes cool
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Tumor on March 25, 2015, 02:44:34 AM
As a 20+yr USAF Retiree, I don't care unless the faker is wearing a uniform and/or using the B.S. for personal (monetary) gain. Otherwise big deal, chances are they aren't right and need psychiatric help anyway. I knew dudes IN the military that would use the old "I'm a Viper Pilot" line at a bar... they were just horny friggin morons. Besides, if she's that easy she deserves what she gets! :airplane:
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Rich46yo on March 25, 2015, 11:57:35 AM
Ive know quite a few that have faked former lives in the service. If they dont go all the way and say they were spec Ops they almost always say they are ex-marines. I can tell after 3 mins if they were ever in any military service, and a few have spent quite a bit of time researching their mystery life.
This all started after military service became all the rage again. Lol I hate to say it but this happens in Police Dept.'s also and probably other jobs like it. Wearing false decorations, claiming past service, telling BS war stories. Thats why I never tell war storys or wear decorations. Many of which are given for Political connections.
I knew a guy who had built a past in the Marines and as a MC racer that was so convincing even skeptics like me believed it. He claimed he was a 32yo unemployed doosh living with Mommie cause he got injured in a race. But he believed this fantasy past so much even we believed it. Most of the time we just dont care when we hear this crap.
People can be pretty strange. I think I would draw a line when it came to wearing uniforms or insignia and certainly License plates. Report them and its pretty easy for their DD-214 to be checked on.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: FBDragon on March 26, 2015, 02:41:38 AM
<SHRAP "read it slower for those that can't pronounce it correctly *first and foremost a brother in arms FBDragon Ron .. who knows me real world gave me me his login because i never look at the bbs after i catch wind when i get back from a trip and log on and get a message from kippy ... to stop claming im from "Laarng" ... ?lousiana ang? maybe thats what he mean't? .. dumb enough..then my brother ron finds the thread for me and i see AKAK is saying im claming to be from Lousiana ang? "which i would LOVE TO SEE ANY VIDEO OF" .. "alt r" ya know? making such ignorant claims ..... ..considering i have been SHRAP for years and no one can pronounce it right and if you do you probabally dont know me ... considering most call me sharp still ... like all the alchemists... so to set it straight.. i was 188th fighter wing .. fort smith .. arkansas air natl guard... since retired...and the wing as been reduced to predator training as of now and the a10s liquidated. "which kippy or whatever didn't even know .."shocker that AKAK didn't either"............. anyone and everyone that actually knows me knows this... the mere fact this entire immature unfounded conversation has made it this far confounds me... but rest not your weary brains.... this falls under slander and defamation of character .... as my lawer informed me ... ;) have a nice chat kiddos ...
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Traveler on March 26, 2015, 08:34:02 AM
There is http://www.stolenvalor.com/ an group of Vets including myself that uses public military records to verify some claims and vet some claims on bogus DD214 doucments. They can not do anything about bogus claims on facebook or twitter and don't bother. Some corporations have used our service to verify military record documents.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Rich46yo on March 26, 2015, 09:15:07 AM
<SHRAP "read it slower for those that can't pronounce it correctly *first and foremost a brother in arms FBDragon Ron .. who knows me real world gave me me his login because i never look at the bbs after i catch wind when i get back from a trip and log on and get a message from kippy ... to stop claming im from "Laarng" ... ?lousiana ang? maybe thats what he mean't? .. dumb enough..then my brother ron finds the thread for me and i see AKAK is saying im claming to be from Lousiana ang? "which i would LOVE TO SEE ANY VIDEO OF" .. "alt r" ya know? making such ignorant claims ..... ..considering i have been SHRAP for years and no one can pronounce it right and if you do you probabally dont know me ... considering most call me sharp still ... like all the alchemists... so to set it straight.. i was 188th fighter wing .. fort smith .. arkansas air natl guard... since retired...and the wing as been reduced to predator training as of now and the a10s liquidated. "which kippy or whatever didn't even know .."shocker that AKAK didn't either"............. anyone and everyone that actually knows me knows this... the mere fact this entire immature unfounded conversation has made it this far confounds me... but rest not your weary brains.... this falls under slander and defamation of character .... as my lawer informed me ... ;) have a nice chat kiddos ...
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Arlo on March 26, 2015, 09:24:16 AM
Oh no. A law suit.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: DaveBB on March 26, 2015, 11:08:11 AM
<SHRAP "read it slower for those that can't pronounce it correctly *first and foremost a brother in arms FBDragon Ron .. who knows me real world gave me me his login because i never look at the bbs after i catch wind when i get back from a trip and log on and get a message from kippy ... to stop claming im from "Laarng" ... ?lousiana ang? maybe thats what he mean't? .. dumb enough..then my brother ron finds the thread for me and i see AKAK is saying im claming to be from Lousiana ang? "which i would LOVE TO SEE ANY VIDEO OF" .. "alt r" ya know? making such ignorant claims ..... ..considering i have been SHRAP for years and no one can pronounce it right and if you do you probabally dont know me ... considering most call me sharp still ... like all the alchemists... so to set it straight.. i was 188th fighter wing .. fort smith .. arkansas air natl guard... since retired...and the wing as been reduced to predator training as of now and the a10s liquidated. "which kippy or whatever didn't even know .."shocker that AKAK didn't either"............. anyone and everyone that actually knows me knows this... the mere fact this entire immature unfounded conversation has made it this far confounds me... but rest not your weary brains.... this falls under slander and defamation of character .... as my lawer informed me ... ;) have a nice chat kiddos ...
I'd like to solve the puzzle. This is someone who lived near an A-10 base, or maybe was even an enlisted airmen who worked on a base. Then with a little knowledge of the workings of the A-10, began claiming to be a pilot in the Louisiana Air National Guard. There are four major red flags in his quote. The first is the fact that he chose a base that has changed aircraft. Nobody to corroborate his claims. Second he demands proof that he made such outrageous claims. Third, he threatens to bring in his lawyer. Fourth, his grammar is horrible. It's on a middle school level. Definitely not the education level of a college graduate pilot.
What do I win?
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Arlo on March 26, 2015, 11:29:14 AM
Jay, tell the man what he's won!
He's won a million pesos in Confederate currency and a ride in an A-10 Warthog.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Gman on March 26, 2015, 11:58:23 AM
AkAk posted screen shots at the forum that must not be named IIRC, proving what Shrap is now trying to refute. I'm sure AkAk is losing a lot of sleep over that rambling slander accusation - I agree, this guy's writing and grammar prove he's either using English as a 2nd or 3rd language, or is just proving how unlikely it is he was ever in the USAF in any capacity, what with his inability to pass comms in even a rudimentary fashion.
I hope he didn't have to pay his lawyer the hourly rate for such sage advice. He states plainly in the screen shots of 200 text that he "flies in the ANG", and when asked what plane, responds "A102c"...uh, what? Then he literally begs and pleads for AkAk to share his FB info, then asks for his home phone number and address - not a joke. Hey, it's perfectly reasonable and normal to ask for home address and phone number of somebody you just met while angrily PM'ing that person for shooting you down in a game.
When this kindly offer of information exchange is turned down by Akak, he becomes quite angry. He also leaves his own FB contact info unsolicited prior to his stomping off, for anyone to look up and get a very good idea of why he's acting in the manner he is.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 26, 2015, 01:00:54 PM
I made a mistake, I thought he had mentioned Louisiana ANG but looking at the screenshots, it was Arkansas ANG but other than that, his story is BS. When asked to show some proof, he squelched me. Then the next day he sends me a PM and tells me to give him my FB name (I don't use FB) and my phone and email because "he had a few people that wanted to talk to me" and that his "senior was infactuated (think he meant infatuated) with what I said". In the initial PM he sent me, he said he was "flying" and not retired.
I don't know why he felt it was necessary to send me a PM telling me he was an A-10 "Pig" pilot with an ANG squadron, other than he was trying to score "cool points" with me and thought I'd be awed and wouldn't question his awesomeness.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: DaveBB on March 26, 2015, 01:11:52 PM
Stop it Ack-Ack you are going to make his Senior mad and I won't get a ride in his A-10C.
Edit: Nevermind, this guy is legit. I found him flying his A-10 on YouTube.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Arlo on March 26, 2015, 02:53:10 PM
In case I'm made party to the law suit ... my real name is Inigo Moñtoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die. The six fingered Warthog pilot is mine.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Wolfala on March 26, 2015, 02:55:24 PM
I don't have the attention span of a house plant but after two pages you think there was a name associated with this thread.
So who is it?
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Dragon Tamer on March 26, 2015, 05:12:58 PM
He just confirmed his fraud with the term "senior". No one in the AF uses terminology like that. Self proofed that he is a fake.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Arlo on March 26, 2015, 06:01:42 PM
(http://thisainthell.us/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/brian-williams-NBC-210x300.jpg) "I remember SHRAP in his A-10 defending my helicopter from the Cong in Iraq."
- Brian Williams
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 26, 2015, 07:50:42 PM
(http://thisainthell.us/blog/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/brian-williams-NBC-210x300.jpg) "I remember SHRAP in his A-10 defending my helicopter from the Cong in Iraq."
- Brian Williams
:rofl
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: kilo2 on March 26, 2015, 09:39:41 PM
One part of his story is true. The Arkansas Air National Guard did fly A-10s.
The base is about 45 minutes away from where I live.
My question would be what years were you actively flying a-10s?
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Rich46yo on March 26, 2015, 10:19:17 PM
You havnt lived until you have lived thru a combat zone. (http://i478.photobucket.com/albums/rr149/Rich46yo/Hillary_zpsdc9kvmha.jpg)
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: FBDragon on March 27, 2015, 12:20:18 AM
OK, this time it is me FBDragon. I do know him outside of AH, from talking with him on the outside world I do believe he was or is in the ANG. Is he a pilot, I can't say because we don't talk too much about the military then (I had enough of the navy so I don't like to talk about it) personal reasons on my part!!
I don't throw accusations at anyone but this does need to be cleared up, just do it a civilized matter!!!! Throwing stones is not gonna get any where!! Shawn's a good guy, Idon't think he has a reason to lie about his service. That's is my opinion though!!! I respect everyone here in AH so I hope everyone will do the same. :salute :salute :salute
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: kilo2 on March 27, 2015, 12:30:52 AM
OK, this time it is me FBDragon. I do know him outside of AH, from talking with him on the outside world I do believe he was or is in the ANG. Is he a pilot, I can't say because we don't talk too much about the military then (I had enough of the navy so I don't like to talk about it) personal reasons on my part!!
I don't throw accusations at anyone but this does need to be cleared up, just do it a civilized matter!!!! Throwing stones is not gonna get any where!! Shawn's a good guy, Idon't think he has a reason to lie about his service. That's is my opinion though!!! I respect everyone here in AH so I hope everyone will do the same. :salute :salute :salute
:salute
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: JVboob on March 27, 2015, 05:51:53 AM
When people ask what plane you fly because your Air Force just tell them you fly an X-Wing lmao. I hate when everyone thinks your a pilot. smh worst part is a person believed me :x
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Traveler on March 27, 2015, 06:39:39 AM
OK, this time it is me FBDragon. I do know him outside of AH, from talking with him on the outside world I do believe he was or is in the ANG. Is he a pilot, I can't say because we don't talk too much about the military then (I had enough of the navy so I don't like to talk about it) personal reasons on my part!!
I don't throw accusations at anyone but this does need to be cleared up, just do it a civilized matter!!!! Throwing stones is not gonna get any where!! Shawn's a good guy, Idon't think he has a reason to lie about his service. That's is my opinion though!!! I respect everyone here in AH so I hope everyone will do the same. :salute :salute :salute
Easy enough to clear up, just need a copy of his DD214 and in 6 yo 8 weeks StolenValor.com can verify it with the DOD. Of course if the DD214 was altered that's a crime and the DOD may want to do a followup with him. But in most cases they do nothing because the subject of the verification usually claims that they didn't alter the document, someone else must have. But we would have a copy of his real DD214 and know if he's a liar liar pants on fire, kinda guy.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Arlo on March 27, 2015, 08:51:24 AM
I think Shawn got his feelings hurt. Air nat'l guard must be the more sensitive types. I, of course, am of a tougher breed, being a bona fide space commando ninja sniper.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: DmonSlyr on March 27, 2015, 09:14:12 AM
I couldn't see someone who is an a10 pilot writing like that. Lower case letters and 8 periods later, I just cannot logically believe he is a pilot with the amount of emotion he uses while writing. Now, I could see him working on a10s or what ever, but I'm not seeing the correlation to a pilot here.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: FBDragon on March 27, 2015, 02:32:23 PM
Easy enough to clear up, just need a copy of his DD214 and in 6 yo 8 weeks StolenValor.com can verify it with the DOD. Of course if the DD214 was altered that's a crime and the DOD may want to do a followup with him. But in most cases they do nothing because the subject of the verification usually claims that they didn't alter the document, someone else must have. But we would have a copy of his real DD214 and know if he's a liar liar pants on fire, kinda guy.
Now see, this is what I mean about being civil!!! :saluteTraveler :salute
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: FBKampfer on March 27, 2015, 03:20:24 PM
Really don't like the hero worship vets get. I have enormous respect for them and what they do, but it's quite questionable if they're heroes.
Especially given the morally ambiguous stuff the US military has been involved in of recent decades. Defending the homeland is one thing. Taking part in defense of US financial and politics interests abroad is another thing entirely.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Arlo on March 27, 2015, 03:37:36 PM
Politics - will kill AH threads.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: FBKampfer on March 27, 2015, 05:22:35 PM
It's not politics, it's fact. No war fought in recent history has been in defense of US citizens at home, and no enemy has posed an existential threat to the US.
Now if you want to get into a value judgment of the wars, that's another story.
However all I'm saying is that there's a big difference between giving your life to defend your home from existential crisis, and fighting terrorism because it's bad in general for the world you happen to be a part of.
I make no judgment or criticism of the government or its soldiers here. I can't stress that enough.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: DaveBB on March 27, 2015, 05:32:35 PM
I am going to ask one final time. Am I, or am I not getting a ride in an A-10C with karp?
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Arlo on March 27, 2015, 05:33:08 PM
It's not politics, it's fact. No war fought in recent history has been in defense of US citizens at home, and no enemy has posed an existential threat to the US.
Now if you want to get into a value judgment of the wars, that's another story.
However all I'm saying is that there's a big difference between giving your life to defend your home from existential crisis, and fighting terrorism because it's bad in general for the world you happen to be a part of.
I make no judgment or criticism of the government or its soldiers here. I can't stress that enough.
You're not getting me. What you are inserting will kill this thread. (May be just as well. *ShruG*)
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Yankee67 on March 27, 2015, 05:51:26 PM
I don't know why he felt it was necessary to send me a PM telling me he was an A-10 "Pig" pilot with an ANG squadron, other than he was trying to score "cool points" with me and thought I'd be awed and wouldn't question his awesomeness.
Hey, if I PM you telling you I'm a middle-aged shlub from Jersey with 3 kids and a mortgage, and a pick up truck with a valve tap, what kind of cool points could I score?
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Arlo on March 27, 2015, 05:52:30 PM
Hey, if I PM you telling you I'm a middle-aged shlub from Jersey with 3 kids and a mortgage, and a pick up truck with a valve tap, what kind of cool points could I score?
Can you qualify that?
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Yankee67 on March 27, 2015, 05:55:33 PM
Probably the only thing I couldn't prove over the internet is the shlub part. We'd have to meet in person for that.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: ozrocker on March 27, 2015, 09:26:43 PM
By all means call him out. It's disgraceful that someone would use the Uniform/status to attempt to obtain benefits or recognition unearned.
Also, in reference to the US Military & Politics.
Military Personnel are sent where the Commander- In - Chief says to go, regardless of personal beliefs.
:cheers: Oz
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Serenity on March 27, 2015, 09:44:08 PM
I say call them out. Always. To quote Scrubs, people are b*****d coated b*****ds with b*****d filling. They will keep pushing and lieing and manipulating until they are confronted.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Ack-Ack on March 27, 2015, 10:26:15 PM
Hey, if I PM you telling you I'm a middle-aged shlub from Jersey with 3 kids and a mortgage, and a pick up truck with a valve tap, what kind of cool points could I score?
A lot more points than someone pretending to be an A-10 "PIG" pilot.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Serenity on March 27, 2015, 10:26:52 PM
Does anyone actually call it that? I've NEVER heard that term for the 10 before...
The only name I've ever heard it called is "WartHog". I don't recall it ever being called a "Pig". If you do a google search for "WartHog" you get a lot of information about the A10 aircraft, you do a google search on Pig and you learn a lot about Pigs, as in this little piggy.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Bodhi on March 29, 2015, 06:49:09 PM
Would the community be better off if they were made aware that a member claimed to be off doing charity work (for roughly 6 plus months) when they were actually not? Does that not take away from those that truly do good work?
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: guncrasher on March 29, 2015, 07:09:02 PM
I did community work for a couple of years. scariest thing was going looking for vets who needed help and were homeless. some where really sick and it was really hard not to feel anything.
semp
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Arlo on March 29, 2015, 07:25:56 PM
Would the community be better off if they were made aware that a member claimed to be off doing charity work (for roughly 6 plus months) when they were actually not? Does that not take away from those that truly do good work?
It's like saying an online community is different from a face to face community when it comes to a pathological liar amongst them. It's not unheard of for a 'harmless' lie to eventually lead to harmful ones (perhaps more-so online). Lets take your example:
A player comes back to the game after six months. Other players recognize him and ask what he's been up to.
"I've been helping the earthquake victims of Blandistan."
"Wow, dude! You're a good soul!"
"Shucks, weren't nuthin'."
A couple of weeks later someone asks him about his volunteer work and if he'll be going back.
"Well, I'm still involved. I've still got contacts and we're trying to round up more supplies. I don't have the personal funds to go back just yet."
"Oh, I wish I could go. Work and family prevents me. Is there a source where I could donate so you can go back?"
Oddly enough, a week later there is. A website where you can donate to send whats-his-face back to Blandistan.
When it blows up and is revealed for what it is, you bet it harmed legit charities. First, the money given can't be 're-given.' Secondly, it undermines anything legitimate.
Now, lies don't always lead to such. But lies, themselves, are insulting once the truth is out. And a really bad lie? Well, may everyone be sharp enough to see it for what it is.
Nobody should be given a free pass on lies, stupid or otherwise. And any such lie is doubly stupid amongst a group of intelligent skeptics.
So if you're attempting to defend liars in the community, that's being a 'Devil's Advocate' that's not worth your time (or ours).
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Serenity on March 29, 2015, 08:50:31 PM
It's like saying an online community is different from a face to face community when it comes to a pathological liar amongst them. It's not unheard of for a 'harmless' lie to eventually lead to harmful ones (perhaps more-so online). Lets take your example:
A player comes back to the game after six months. Other players recognize him and ask what he's been up to.
"I've been helping the earthquake victims of Blandistan."
"Wow, dude! You're a good soul!"
"Shucks, weren't nuthin'."
A couple of weeks later someone asks him about his volunteer work and if he'll be going back.
"Well, I'm still involved. I've still got contacts and we're trying to round up more supplies. I don't have the personal funds to go back just yet."
"Oh, I wish I could go. Work and family prevents me. Is there a source where I could donate so you can go back?"
Oddly enough, a week later there is. A website where you can donate to send whats-his-face back to Blandistan.
When it blows up and is revealed for what it is, you bet it harmed legit charities. First, the money given can't be 're-given.' Secondly, it undermines anything legitimate.
Now, lies don't always lead to such. But lies, themselves, are insulting once the truth is out. And a really bad lie? Well, may everyone be sharp enough to see it for what it is.
Nobody should be given a free pass on lies, stupid or otherwise. And any such lie is doubly stupid amongst a group of intelligent skeptics.
So if you're attempting to defend liars in the community, that's being a 'Devil's Advocate' that's not worth your time (or ours).
Hit the nail on the head. Let the lie slide and more will come.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: Aspen on March 30, 2015, 04:22:15 PM
Its sad but its not a simple as yes or no for me. Lawn is probably referring to a kid (ok, legally an adult but..) and kids do dumb stuff. Sometimes suffering the consequences of those dumb things is how we learn and mature. Sometimes if the consequence is a big one, that kid gets derailed for a long time, maybe forever.
I would be less concerned about getting a pound of flesh and more interested in him stopping it and learning a lesson from it that eventually helps him get on track. From what I have seen, if it is what it appears to be, the real world harm he has done isn't worth the real world consequences he could face. He needs to be called on it, but for a kid that already has issues, a full exposing could be a life changer.
I suggest proceeding with care while handling stuff that once done, cannot be undone. People can change and I try not to judge people based on their worst moments.
Title: Re: Stolen Valor
Post by: eagl on March 30, 2015, 05:31:51 PM
Everyone knows I flew the F-15E but I wasn't authorized to say I was also associated with specwarcomfleetpac and was known as special agent cheetah spot. I've been working on a computer game that incorporates all this cool experiences but I recently retired and my insurance hasn't switched over (thanks VA!) and so I had to pay a few post-op visits after my back surgery out of pocket. That's put me in debt so I can't continue working on the game until I get it sorted out. Kickstarter won't allow games based on real world military experience, but I just can't work until I replace my computer which was fried from a power surge. I figure just $25,000 would let me rebuild the computer and pay the rent for a couple of months until I get my insurance sorted out. I'll guarantee the loans (I want a loan not a handout thanks!) by offering one share of the holding company managing the game development for every $100 loan I get. When we ship, go public, or get bought out, I'll redeem each share for $150.
Sounds so reasonable, why not eh? So easy to mix a little truth in with the lie and make the "loan" sound legit. All I need is 2-3 shades account and one real sucker who doesn't know I'm lying to vouch for me, and voila I'm in business.
Its happened before. "Voss" suckered people out of about $25,000 grand before Robey Price outed him, and some kid managed to sucker about 6 USAF officers in a real-world F-15E squadron into revealing various tidbits of detail to make his pretend online persona sound real.