Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Custom Skins => Topic started by: oboe on April 30, 2015, 04:42:27 PM
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All the Ki.61 skins I submitted were rejected for pixelation of some details in the skin. (I assume they mean exhaust manifold, inside of flap surfaces, etc).
I don't think I've ever started with a 256x256 skin before, and when resizing to 1024x1024, some areas become pixelated.
I've tried selecting and blurring the area, but that doesn't look right. Do you just have to try to redraw the item by hand?
Thanks for your help
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Have you talked to Skuzzy about why they were rejected?
Also, I doubt the exhaust manifold is the issue, all of the other Ki 61 skins use the default texture.
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If you send skuzzy an email, he will give you a more specific reason and where to look to fix it.
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I haven't talked to Skuzzy about it; the explanation given for the rejection seemed clear. All 10 skins had rejection messages basically identical to one of these two:
Reason for rejection: April 30, 2015, 6:18 pm: Many details of the skin were not properly corrected after resizing the skin (pixelation)
Reason for rejection: April 30, 2015, 6:20 pm: Some of the skin details were not properly corrected, after resizing the skin from 256x256.
I can see the pixelation, most evident in the exhaust manifold stack at top right in the skin map below:
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/tjlaven/KI61SID.png)
I do look over the skins offline very closely, in multiple light conditions and from many different angles. Literally, I've spent hours panning around in external view, zooming in and out on these skins, making sure panel lines line up, control surface edges are correct, etc. I just never noticed anything wrong with the manifold texture. It's probably true that since it was a default texture and one that I had not changed, I wasn't scrutinizing it like I was other aspects of the skins.
Here is a closeup of the default Ki.61's exhaust manifold:
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/tjlaven/ahss219.png)
And here is the close-up of one of the skins I submitted:
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/tjlaven/ahss218.png)
The pixelation on the manifold that is so obvious in the skin bmp file just doesn't seem very apparent to me in the game, even on close inspection. I don't know how to explain the rejections, unless they didn't look at the skins in game, and only reviewed and rejected based on the bmp files?
I think it's unfortunate to have the skins rejected so close to the skin release date. If I had even one more day I could fix them and resubmit (assuming I figure out how to correct the pixelation, or someone tells me what to do) all of the skins.
Man, I can't tell you how much I was looking forward to having some new skins for the Ki.61 in game!
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If you send skuzzy an email, he will give you a more specific reason and where to look to fix it.
Sorry I missed your post DT, I'll send Skuzzy an email right now. I think its most likely too late to make the skin release though.
I've looked at the other bmp for the Ki.61 (it has 2 you must submit) and there is also pixelation evident in the wheel cover and tire tread, but these are even less noticeable in the game than the manifold texture...
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Compare the two manifolds next to each other closely by cropping and pasting into a work sheet from your screen shots. Your work where the top brown flat area ends at its edge over the 5 exhaust barrels looks like it could use some AA to un jagged it. Except in the original skin that same line is smooth. The only other difference is all the bump mapping in the area above that you put into your skin, where as the default is smooth.
What does pixilation mean in Skuzzy speak? He does look at your skin in person rather then run it through some custom Hitech proofing application for a read out?
I like your weathering.
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Thanks Bustr. The Ki.61 is an AH1 model so it doesn't support bump mapping; I didn't put any bump mapping in at all. Also I must clarify, none of these Ki.61s were my original work. Most were produced by a very talented IL-2 skinner named 200th_Taro. I discovered his skins when I was looking for Ki.61 images, and found I was able to adapt one to AH's format and it looked great in game. I contacted him and asked if it was OK if I submit his skins to AH and he agreed. I also got permission from a couple of other skinners and adapted one of their skins each, but 200th_Taro's were the best. To ensure that the original skinner's receive credit, I put their names on the bmp file, and also used a 512x512 jpg of the bmp file with a "credit" plate showing all their names, and submitted it as one of the reference images that we are encouraged to submit along with our skins. The skinners at the IL-2 skinning forum thought that was a good solution to ensure credit given where it is due. The IL-2 skinning community is a little different in that they seem to freely collaborate and share work - for example 200th_Taro's skins were produced using a template created by a skinner named JayPack44 (I also contacted him and received his approval and permission as well).
Here's the best example I can show of what pixelation is, it's effect on the skin in-game:
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/tjlaven/Pixelation-in-AH-resized-skin.jpg)
This is an example of the reason given that all the Ki.61 skins were rejected. I hadn't altered the manifold texture at all, and it did not jump out at me as something that needed to be corrected. The same pixelation problem occurred on other areas of the skin I left untouched - tire tread, wheel covers, inside of the flap texture. However in those areas I believe it is less noticeable in game. For example:
(http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd148/tjlaven/Pixelation2.jpg)
I'm sorry I missed it in my reviews. It was totally my error; I don't think I had skinned from a 256x256 default file before. Live and learn I guess!
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Actually, if a bump map is made available, the game should use it, for any model. It has been a while, but that is how it has been intended to work.
We did not go back and create bum maps for models we knew we would replace, but the code should use the bump map if it is available.
If it shows up in the skin viewer, it will work in the game as well.
If the skin admin tool does not allow a bump map, that is a different story and one I can address.
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See Rule #4
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I just want to say, I think Skuzzy is a good guy and has done a lot of great work for HTC and the players over the years. I think his new Web Submission system for skins is excellent, for example. It's all that AND and a slice of cake! And I appreciate every effort he has made regarding my skins - getting them in game, clearing up problems with them, etc. I know I haven't always made it easy for him. (I had no idea how much work I was causing him back in the old days when I would re-submit through email my skins which had been assigned a skin ID but hadn't been reviewed or accepted yet - I'm very sorry about that).
I would also like to very gently suggest that posts that are in disagreement with some decision Skuzzy has made regarding skins do not need to be met with a RULE #4 edit. There is value in disagreement; it can be learned from I think. Disagreement is not a personal attack , flame-baiting, or incitement, though it may require relying on our better angels to not view it as annoying at times. If there is only one point of view allowed on the board I think we will all lose.
Let's all remember, in the end, we should all be here to make the game better for AH players, and more appealing for potential subscribers. And that's what we should make every effort to do.
And thank you, Citabria. You and Greebo have been my skinning inspirations; I appreciate your support and encouragement.
<S> all.
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See Rule #4
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天才だ！！
WTG!! Oboe!!<S>
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Many thanks for your kind words and encouragement, Blade.
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Hmm, so keep them on file for when the Ki-61 get's updated. I don't think you'll have to worry then. :aok
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Hmm, so keep them on file for when the Ki-61 get's updated. I don't think you'll have to worry then. :aok
Skuzzy said they weren't good enough. If they weren't good enough for the old Ki.61, they surely won't be good enough for the new model. Besides, I am sure the bmp file layout will change, so none of what I produced would work with the new model's texture map anyway.
I thought I had found a quick way to get a number of high-quality Ki.61 skins into the game, without risking the loss of a lot of effort whenever the new model comes out. I wouldn't modify IL-2 skins for the new Ki.61 model - after the Ki.61 is updated, it would be worth the time and effort to develop your own skins and not start from an IL-2 skin template.
If you like flying the Ki.61, you'll just have to continue using the existing skins until the new model comes out. Then you'll be back to a single skin for a time, but I'm sure it will look very nice.
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I've just been looking at my remaining AH1-era skins and I did reskin all the small parts from scratch. There really isn't any other way to make those parts look good. However I wouldn't do all that work now for a buggy, low poly shape that might have a lifetime of a year or two at best before its replaced.
I'd object to anyone filling slots with these sort of cut and paste skins on an AH2 model. However I can't see the problem doing it with an old AH1 shape like this unless HTC just don't want to set a precedent for allowing it.
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Greebo,
Thought you would get the skinning contract for all the AH1 updated to AH3. Common spill the beans...... :O
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The way it works is Waffle or Superfly will post a new shape in the private skinner team forum and asks who wants to do it. Recently however these guys been very busy making trees, buildings and other stuff for the new terrain and so I have not been working on any new stuff for a while. For future reference if I'm not posting skins in here every week its a good bet I'm working on something new for them.
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I've just been looking at my remaining AH1-era skins and I did reskin all the small parts from scratch. There really isn't any other way to make those parts look good. However I wouldn't do all that work now for a buggy, low poly shape that might have a lifetime of a year or two at best before its replaced.
I'd object to anyone filling slots with these sort of cut and paste skins on an AH2 model. However I can't see the problem doing it with an old AH1 shape like this unless HTC just don't want to set a precedent for allowing it.
Exactly. Except, if that is really HTCs problem with it (which I think is an understandable, reasonable and defensible position to take) then why not come out and say that? I would prefer that to Skuzzy publically impugning my judgement and ability as a skinner.
It was exactly one of the reasons I was so open about what I was doing. I wanted anyone and everyone to voice any objections they had before I spent a lot of time on it. Instead, I received positive comments and encouragement to continue. So I did end up wasting my time on them.
I even had a discussion with Skuzzy privately about my concerns for showing proper credit to the original skinners. Again, it was an opportunity to tell me not to continue with this; that these skins would not be accepted.
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I have no idea where you come off making the accusation I have publicly impugned you!
The results of any skin release are private to the skinner only. You are the one who has come in here and told everyone what was said. Your choice, not mine.
This thread is done.