Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sabre on May 11, 2015, 01:12:14 PM
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Considering picking one of these up for my daughter, when she move out of the house. Yes, it's ugly, and yes, it's no match-grade shooter. Just looking for reasonable accuracy, reliability and not too expensive. Basically, an inexpensive nightstand gun. Anyone got first-hand experience? Read reviews, but looking for first-hand knowledge.
Rich
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I've got the Hi Point 9mm and I don't think you can go wrong for the money...it is ugly but it's tough and surprisingly very accurate. Plus you can run anything for ammo through it, it's just not fussy. Of course YMMV but I'm very satisfied with mine.
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What does your daughter want? I ask because she'd be more likely to actually practice with something that she preferred over something you just handed her.
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Thanks, Aztec.
Triton: She's used many different firearms. She's rather fond of the 38-special, but is comfortable with auto's, too.
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Hi-points are pretty rough but functional. Make sure she can run the slide as they can be a bear, especially when new. My opinion is that for a defense weapon I would spend a little more and get something a little higher quality. Lots of choices, a Bersa Thunder .380 is a relatively inexpensive one that fits small to medium hands well without being a micro compact.
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My stepdad has one and he seems to like it. I've shot a friends. Actually not terrible for a $150 gun, but still a $150 gun none the less. His rattled when you shook it, are they supposed to do that? I don't recall the XD's doing that. The only issue it had was that once in a while it wouldn't fully cycle. The slide would stop about a mm short of where it should be and you would just need to reach up with your thumb and give it a nudge. Might have been a limp wrist thing but it happened to both of us and this was with a 9mm model so I doubt it. I think it's a good cheap weekend plinker, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. If she likes the .38 why not stick with it? I know it's smaller than what most prefer but they go bang every time you pull the trigger and for home defense I think if you hit what you're shooting at with hollow points he's gonna have a bad day, plus it's not gonna light up the neighbors. I shot a S&W .38 a few years back and loved it, I'd carry that over a hi-point if I was gonna CC.
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I have a Hi-Point 9mm carbine that's fun to shoot.
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Triton: She's used many different firearms. She's rather fond of the 38-special, but is comfortable with auto's, too.
If she's shot a .38 a lot and likes it, I'd try to find a used J-frame or similar and be done with it. Reliable and simple.
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Got one...use good ammo...its a great gun...
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This is your daughter we're talking about. I'd definitely go with a cheap HiPoint over something reliable like Smith & Wesson or Ruger. You might save $100.
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There's a feller out at the gun range that swears by his "$250" .45 ACP High point.
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HiPoint pistols are unreliable junk Sabre. Spend just a little more and get something more reliable. Police trade ins are a good option if money is tight.
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HiPoint pistols are unreliable junk Sabre. Spend just a little more and get something more reliable. Police trade ins are a good option if money is tight.
What is your evidence? Not being combative; just want to know why you say this; is it based on recent, personal experience, or anecdotal/hearsay evidence.
RPM: I'm asking for that reason, because it is my daughter. I've read four review articles; only one was negative, and several aspects of the negative article were suspicious, like it was a deliberate hit-job. If the gun is reliable and reasonably accurate, then I'll consider it over a much more expensive piece. She doesn't shoot for sport or competition. This is a night-stand gun, or for the glove-box when she drives.
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So you're saying it's not something that can misfire with few if any ramifications......I think. Or is it "not really important like a range gun".
Seems like a nightstand/truck gun would be ultra simple, totally reliable, and easy to put away (conceal). I tend to go with options that have Zero negative feedback. Situations like this demand absolutes.
I can see trying one on for kicks but I don't want my kid finding out which side of the debate has more merit.
http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/specSheets/5401.html
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Revolver all the way.
.38 special with high quality hollow points
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If she likes revolvers I'd go with a used K frame S&W with some decent ammo. Nothing wrong with the J frames but they are harder to shoot and are going for a premium now that ccw has gotten more popular. The K frames are also easier and more comfortable to shoot leading to more practice.
Not a high point fan but don't have personal experience either. I do prefer a revolver to a semi of any brand for a "nightstand" gun.
FWIW you can usually find PD trade in glocks at some of the larger internet stores like J&G gun sales for a reasonable price if you insist on a semi.
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I would caution in the extreme. They are absolute garbage. Sure, they might shoot, but they are not reliable. I've seen more failures of Hi-point firearms than any other firearm we've come across.
It's your daughter. By her a reliable wheel gun. Better, safer, and easier to manipulate, especially when women are concerned.
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I dont know if this helps ..
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/05/benjamin-t-shotzberger/gun-review-hi-point-c9-9mm-pistol/
Lawndart
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I have a bersa Thunder 380 auto, hands down a nice piece and a tack driver.
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Personally, I would get her a Diamondback DB9 or the pricier Rohrbaugh R9. Very reliable. Very accurate.
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Ive had 2 hi-point pistols the .45 and the c9...if you buy good ammo and don't limp wrist it...it does fine...they have lifetime warranties...don't like it send it back...get it fixed or replaced...
Unreliable is not a term I use for my pistol...it shoots the first time I pull the trigger...always
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If I was getting a gun for my daughter or wife I'd take her to a gun shop with a large variety of revolvers, and have her repeatedly pick them up and point them. Let her select the 2-3 that "feel good", then have her repeat the pick up and point drill, but this time aiming at something with eyes closed. Then open up the eyes and see which one is actually pointing at the target after the eyes are opened. The one that is pointing closest at the target when the eyes are opened is likely to be the most naturally pointing one in a stressful situation.
There are lots of anecdotal but consistent stories about wives at home pointing a gun at an intruder, closing their eyes and pulling the trigger until it quits going bang, and then when they open their eyes they see that they've put just about every round into the intruder because the gun pointed well. Not saying any particular person (wife/daughter/husband/son/etc) or any gender is more or less likely to react and shoot that way, but a gun that points naturally is going to be more effective in a home defense situation. So get her a gun that points well in her hand, period.
And yea, revolver. Preferably DA only without an exposed hammer sticking out to catch on things.
.38 is a reasonable load too. Plenty of load options suitable for just about any level of skill and hand/wrist strength, and likely enough stopping power without being too hot to handle under stress.
If you still go with an auto, consider both 9mm and .40. The .40 has both more recoil and more stopping power, but the round size/shape is short so the gun grip is often as small as a 9mm grip. That may be an important consideration when getting a gun for someone with smaller hands.
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As for hi-point itself... A cheap gun that gets you a variety of reactions from "junk" to "yea its ok for a cheap gun" isn't something I'd give to a family member who might need to use it one time in their whole life. Would you give her a cheap parachute that sometimes doesn't open and professional jumpers won't recommend, just because its cheap and this one guy thought it would "probably work just fine"? Would you buy tires for the family truckster that sometimes blow out for no reason but are usually ok if driven carefully?
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Glock 19 or 42, Bersa thunder, s@w Shield, Bla bla. No high point trash. Their carbine is good, i have one for the lake house. Save a couple extra $ and buy something that will function and she will enjoy shooting. Remember one of the most dangerous aspects of shooting is clearing a jam. I am also revolver man also but it does take more practice for the Da triggers.
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I dont know if this helps ..
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/05/benjamin-t-shotzberger/gun-review-hi-point-c9-9mm-pistol/
Lawndart
Yes, I read that article. It is the "hit-piece" job I mention earlier. One hit is the false representation about the slide contacting the hand, with the accompanying close up of the rear of the slide while the author is holding it. Looks terrible, right? but if you scroll down a bit farther, there's a picture, two actually, side-by-side. The left hand picture shows him holding a brick as if it was a pistol (making the point that it is heavier than comparable guns); the right hand picture next to it shows him holding the actual gun. Notice anything about the hand placement? Another article I read actually references this same article, and could not duplicate any of the problems Shotzberger eludes to. So, three out of four reviews were positive.
Regarding the idea that I'm trying to save money at the expense of my daughter's safety, that's the whole point of researching the brand and asking opinions here, of course. I will always put her safety first, but if I can save some money at the same time, I will. Having some experience in manufacturing and quality assurance, I can tell you that companies that make garbage don't generally offer a life-time warranty. The end date of most warranties is set to correspond with just prior to the beginning of the up-tick in failures, at the end of what's sometimes referred to as the "bathtub" curve.
Regardless, I appreciate all the feedback. I may just give her my old 38-spc, and get a new one for myself. She likes shooting it, and as noted, you can't get simpler to operate than that. Only big drawback is it only holds 5 rounds. When it comes to ammo, I generally believe more is better. That is especially true in self-defense engagements, where anywhere from 70 to 90 percent of shots miss (including trained police officers). That was one of the reasons I was looking at a non-compact 9-mm.
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Only High Point Ive shot is their carbine, which is kinda fun but not very practical. Its been a long, long time since Ive shot any of these makes. HP, Astra's, Bersa's, Lorcins, even Taurus at one time was considered a semi-junk gun but now make a very good gun for the money. Hell Brazil even makes very good passenger jets in the Embraer line.
Honestly from what Ive read in gun forums and on their web sight their 9mm seems a decent pistol in the $200 range.
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I must go with Triton, Maverick and others who say revolver.
It's what I got my daughter. And my GF.
I also told them 2 shots, what til guns on target for second. NEVER just one.
AND usual "do not get it out unless your need to shoot it, and than be sure.."
Range time.
JGroth
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I have a bersa Thunder 380 auto, hands down a nice piece and a tack driver.
+1 on the Bersa Thunder 380. :aok
(http://i343.photobucket.com/albums/o460/caldera_08/guns-4.jpg~original) (http://s343.photobucket.com/user/caldera_08/media/guns-4.jpg.html)
It is considerably smaller than a 1911 but not pocket sized. Weighs just 20 ounces empty.
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Personally I'd rather have a sharp stick than a Hi-point . At least I could be sure the sharp stick wouldn't fail if I needed it.
Working at an indoor range and gunshop, I've seen to many fail to even consider owning one as a range gun let alone a self defense gun. The lady smiths are nice....maybe take a look at one for her
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Regarding the idea that I'm trying to save money at the expense of my daughter's safety, that's the whole point of researching the brand and asking opinions here, of course. I will always put her safety first, but if I can save some money at the same time, I will.
You've already made up your mind, why are you trying to convince us it's a good decision? If you want to buy a cheap gun, buy the cheap gun.
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Actually, none of the reviews has shown a HI-Point to be unreliable.
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Yeah but there's not a semi built that can match (not approximate) the reliability of a sound wheel gun. None. If the kid's lifestyle allows for a "nightstand' weapon, a real last stand type of solution, I can't imagine how a "plan B" would even exist. Especially one that's sole reason to be is being the second cheapest gun available.
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I'd look at the second hand market for a used gun of better quality. For $200-300 you can get 2nd or even 3rd gen Glocks and Berettas in good condition.
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Actually, none of the reviews has shown a HI-Point to be unreliable.
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2011/05/benjamin-t-shotzberger/gun-review-hi-point-c9-9mm-pistol/
Reliability nil
I could not make this gun go bang every time. That is my one gateway requirement to reliability. When I pull the trigger, it must go boom. When it goes boom, it must consistently be ready to go boom again. The fact that misfeeds and jams were the norm and not the fluke leads to my first ever “zero” rating.
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How about a zastava M88?