Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Pudgie on May 12, 2015, 10:22:10 PM
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http://www.pcper.com/news/Graphics-Cards/Leaked-AMD-Fiji-Card-Images-Show-Small-Form-Factor-Water-Cooler-Integration
If true this is a good looking form factored vid card......................... ...........
Won't be long now.......................
:salute
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LOL @ calling it Fiji
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http://techreport.com/review/28294/amd-high-bandwidth-memory-explained
Joe Macri @ AMD engineer is giving interviews on this stuff now.......................... .........& has made some interesting comments that could transform into this new tech along w/ the new Fiji XT GPU being the real deal................if pans out this could be a game changer...........
Reported that this R9 390X card will come in 2 flavors: 1 air-cooled, 1 water-cooled............
Getting closer....................... .............................
:salute
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AMD is going to come out with a new HBM memory technology. 10x memory bandwith, anyone?
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015/05/19/amd_hbm_high_bandwidth_memory_technology_unveiled#.VV7qA9OqpBc
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I wonder if that new technology is consumer friendly in terms of money ...
Do they state any pricing ?
AMD is going to come out with a new HBM memory technology. 10x memory bandwith, anyone?
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2015/05/19/amd_hbm_high_bandwidth_memory_technology_unveiled#.VV7qA9OqpBc
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the new Fiji XT GPU being the real deal
As a regular traveler to Fiji, I just want to underscore Fiji brings me images of friendly people, extensive corruption, slow (or no) service, nothing getting done, and "island time" (feel free to google that).
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Now this is gonna be subjective thinking to some in here at best but.......................
Since Nvidia has just stepped out in front of AMD's upcoming release & released it's scaled down version of the 12Gb mem fully fleshed GM200 GPU TitanX listed at $1,000.00 w/ GTX 980 Ti w/ fully fleshed GM200 GPU, 6Gb mem & fewer cuda cores listed at approx. $650.00----ahead of AMD's scheduled launch of it's new "rumored" Fiji\Fury XT GPU-equipped vid cards w/ now-known HBM architecture that will be limited to 4 Gb capacity at launch, coupled w/ the now known move that Nvidia did more than 2 yrs ago to counter AMD's launch of their R9 290X Hawaii XT GPU w/ 512-bit GPU\mem bus w/ 4Gb GDDR5 mem at 1250Hz freq vid card that was listed at $750.00-$800.00 to counter Nvidia's original GTX Titan--crippled GK110 GPU w/ crippled cuda cores (2816 instead of 2880) w/ 6Gb GDDR5 mem at 6000Hz freq on a 384-bit GPU\mem bus listed at $1,000.00--by shortly following up AMD's release w/ a FULLY fleshed GK110 GPU GTX 780Ti w/ FULL 2880 cuda cores, 3Gb GDDR5 mem on 384-bit GPU\mem bus w/ the mem freq SPED up to 7000Hz listed at approx. $650.00-$700.00.................
My gut read here tells me that the proverbial shoe that Nvidia landed on AMD's neck at that time has just been "landed" on Nvidia's neck by AMD as there was no reason for Nvidia to get out in front of AMD if they believed that they were not gonna be out done by AMD's release of this new "tech"....they simply just could have done what they did w/ the GTX 780Ti AFTER AMD released the R9 290X 2 yrs back & cut AMD's throat again........but Nvidia did not wait this round to do that & couple in the known fact that Nvidia WILL be using HBM2 architecture (along w/ AMD as well) w/ their next gen Pascal GPU's..................from this action I smell a rat & from all this is why I'm really gonna wait for AMD's release & will most likely purchase 1 if the initial reviews prove what I'm already thinking right now................regardless of whether the Nvidia GTX 980Ti is cheaper or not or if the AMD drivers are not quite polished at initial release for Fiji\Fury.................that this upcoming AMD hardware release is indeed a game changing product & is the real deal.
Marketing 101 being employed here folks by Nvidia attempting to hold on to % of market share in lieu of their competitor AMD releasing a potentially better performing & cost-efficient flagship product to market than what flagship product Nvidia currently had in the market...................
My 2 cents....................
We'll find out if I interpreted this correctly in a few days...........I just can't see AMD's marketing dept falling for this 2 times in succession...................
:salute
Also note that AMD is out front of Nvidia & have an advantage on Intel w/ their new combined "APU" sers CPU\GPU chips which are already out w/o either of the competition effectively countering them........yet........& AMD is about to come out w/ a new architecture (Zen) & when used in conjunction w\ HBM tech could even further enhance their current position in the market place.........I think that AMD has learned a thing or 2 along the way..............
PS......This is no different than what is currently occurring w/ SSD's right now transitioning from SATAIII-based to PCI-E-based & from AHCI protocol to NVMe protocol.....the new "tech" is clearly superior to the prior tech (& I have a PCI-E SSD that clearly proves this)....just cause it's in the infancy of development thus it is priced out of reach of most of the mainstream consumer markets at this time does not justify that it is a bad thing\deal for other fellow consumers to spend the necessary funds to acquire it as it develops because they CHOSE to do so.....simply a reality of being in a free market society.
Again my 2 cents................
:salute
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Look it has a cover on it that appears to be a grill. Multi purpose graphics card pannini maker? You know that sucker is going to be hot.
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Look it has a cover on it that appears to be a grill. Multi purpose graphics card pannini maker? You know that sucker is going to be hot.
It's water cooled, duh.
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http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1041663380#post1041663380
An even more definitive photo of the new AMD Fury graphics card w/ water cooling.....................
We'll find out Tuesday!
:salute
PS--Even if this card's TDP was as low as the GTX 980Ti's 250W TDP, the form factor size of this package IMHO can only be adequately cooled by water cooling....the package is too small IMHO to accommodate adequate air cooling, based on the size of the smallest adequately air-cooled 250W package....the Nvidia Titan-designed metal blower cooler....is better than 30% larger than this new AMD form factor size so this IMHO also doesn't mean that this new AMD Fury card's TDP is higher than 250W.........& since water cooling is known to be the most commercially efficient method of transferring heat away from components outside of using extreme cooling methods like LNG, this can also be interpreted to use water cooling to enhance even more power application (using 2-8 pin connectors instead of using the std 1-6 pin, 1-8 pin connector combo) to further enhance the GPU\mem performance output but still stay within the card's TDP design limit......not just to keep another poorly designed AMD GPU from overheating. We'll find this out on Tuesday as well but it sure is a slick looking package & I'm liking what I'm seeing so far......................... :salute
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I am getting a 980Ti and have no desire to leave EVGA.
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I am getting a 980Ti and have no desire to leave EVGA.
got mine the other day this thing is a beast
(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff115/MAVADAKIN_2007/2015-06-12%2016.50.19.jpg)[/URL]
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http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1041663380#post1041663380
An even more definitive photo of the new AMD Fury graphics card w/ water cooling.....................
We'll find out Tuesday!
:salute
PS--Even if this card's TDP was as low as the GTX 980Ti's 250W TDP, the form factor size of this package IMHO can only be adequately cooled by water cooling....the package is too small IMHO to accommodate adequate air cooling, based on the size of the smallest adequately air-cooled 250W package....the Nvidia Titan-designed metal blower cooler....is better than 30% larger than this new AMD form factor size so this IMHO also doesn't mean that this new AMD Fury card's TDP is higher than 250W.........& since water cooling is known to be the most commercially efficient method of transferring heat away from components outside of using extreme cooling methods like LNG, this can also be interpreted to use water cooling to enhance even more power application (using 2-8 pin connectors instead of using the std 1-6 pin, 1-8 pin connector combo) to further enhance the GPU\mem performance output but still stay within the card's TDP design limit......not just to keep another poorly designed AMD GPU from overheating. We'll find this out on Tuesday as well but it sure is a slick looking package & I'm liking what I'm seeing so far......................... :salute
Well the baby has been birthed!
From what was reported to be said by the AMD folks during the E3 launch the AMD FuryX vid card is Fiji-powered, has a 275W TDP (25W more than TitanX\980Ti's 250W TDP), is equipped w/ a 6 phase VRM to power this thing w/ max VRM output of 400A (that's a LOT of available power to have on hand--2 8-pin connectors), the water cooling system is capable of cooling a max of 500W worth of heat & keep the card within the rated TDP (if so this sucker should OC big time) & there will be 3 more Fiji-powered variants coming (Fury will be FuryX w/ air cooling, Fury Nano--air cooled & shorter form factor than Fury\FuryX-- & an unnamed X2-Fiji GPU variant) all w/ 4 Gb HBM on interposer w/ GPU\GPU's. FuryX is reported to be 1.5X more power efficient than 290X ( I suspect AMD is intentionally under reporting the FuryX's max performance somewhat on purpose), the Fury Nano is reported to be able to reach 2x the performance per watt of 290X when it debuts (this is why I suspect some under reporting of the FuryX's performance ceiling).
The Fury line was targeted to be able to run games well at 4K w/ all graphics at ultra settings & so none of these cards will be equipped w/ DVI connections, only 1 HDMI port & 3 DP ports & the FuryX will be priced at $649.99....right w/ the Nvidia GTX 980Ti card.
It appears that AMD is really gonna go head-to-head w/ Nvidia & compete for our dollars................
Waiting on the reviews as the FuryX will hit the stores on 6-24-15........................
I just might have to get & test 1 of these out...............I love new tech!
Already got me a new HDMI 18Gb\s cable w/ Redmere control chip in anticipation................. ......
http://techreport.com/news/28481/amd-fiji-gpu-rides-in-on-four-radeon-r9-fury-graphics-cards
:salute
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While waiting on the reviews to come out next week on the AMD FuryX card's performance after it ships to retail, I went on Newegg & researched cabling for the HDMI & DisplayPort interface to decide on which 1 I was going to get to set up for the advent of me getting 1 of these cards....& also using reasoning that Nvidia will also at some point most likely follow suit as AMD has started & do away w/ the DVI port on their cards as well (this is another piece of PC architecture that has served its purpose & is time to be discontinued & will help to cut some development\implementation costs on these products as well).
At this time, since I have made the decision to stay w/ my current monitor for now (DoubleSight DS-279W) I went w/ HDMI. I found this HDMI cable on Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812117610
After researching on it & others HDMI cables I went for a couple of these (1 for my box & 1 for the wife's box....on her box I'm gonna enable sound to go across this cable to the speakers located in her HP 2710M monitor & get rid of the external speakers currently being used....) due to the Redmere chip being used to enhance signal output & quality on the HDMI 2.0 spec.
I got the time yesterday to pull my box out & remove the DVI cable, install the Coboc HDMI cable (had to reposition my vid card slightly in its slots to make room for the HDMI plug to fully seat in the socket) then boot up & go into my monitor menu & change the signal from DVI to HDMI....all came up in good order w/o any issues.
The very 1st thing that I noticed immediately is the improvement in display operation...transition was faster, smoother & crisper. The display images were very clean & clear....I wasn't expecting this to happen, but I should have as this is 1 of the advantages of using HDMI (or DP) over DVI is the advent of using surround sound in conjunction w/ video so the signal transfer rate across this cable for both video & sound needs to be very fast & wide (bandwidth) w/ good signal fidelity.
Went up & flew around for a while & thru the gameplay as now seen on my monitor it has shown me that a lot of the "stuttering" (which I will add that I noticed very little of anyway) is really not all due to the graphics card.......
Every part of the process has a part to play in the total result..............
:salute
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My next upgrade will be end of summer/fall whenever Skylake's new platform is available. I've been a long time nVidia supporter, but wouldn't mind checking out the new Fiji or Fury cards for kicks with the new build. A lot of rumbles on tech channels about the new Ram AMD is using and the performance to price ratio of these new cards. I put a Titan X in my 5960x box before the 980ti came out, or I would have bought that instead, and have no regrets with my 980s in my other 2 systems. The only AMD card I still have is a 5770 in a home theater pc that is still trucking along 5 years later.
I'm not so stuck on brand, despite being very happy with nVidia for the last 4 years, that I won't try AMD if the reviews show it to be a better card for the money. Driver support is one issue I have concerns over, but only time can tell with that one.
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The 390 series is essentially a rebranded 290 series. They upped the ram performance a bit but thats it.
Tests show that the 8Gb ram is useless unless you crossfire, a single GPU configuration doesn't have the oomph required to utilize anything past 4Gb with playable framerates.
The architecture is exactly the same as the previous 290 series. The new wide memory bandwith models are still in the future.
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I saw that on the WanShow from LinusTech today, that the 390 is basically the same as the previous version with some driver updates is all. The Fury and Fiji, still have to wait and see if the new memory type/etc is any better than nVidia. Some stuff out there from those who are testing them saying the 650$ AMD card will be much faster than the 980ti and Titan, but I'll believe it when I see it.
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Exactly Gman. All of this window dressing is for naught and am looking at upgrading my 780ti to a 980ti or ti Hybrid.
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Several tech sites put up reviews through the night showing the performance of the Fury X. The 980ti handily beats it in most benchmarks and games tested, and the 980ti also doesn't need an external fan/liquid radiator setup. So much for the superiority of the new "high bandwidth memory" AMD has been working on for 7 years. I thought their 650$ Fury X was going to be a surprise for nVidia, and start the GPU wars up again. Who knows, maybe the Fiji will do so next month, but considering the $/performance value I'm seeing with the Fury X, and it being a bit of a letdown, I'm not optimistic that AMD is going to snatch any titles from nVidia back anytime soon.
Maybe I'm wrong, and Fiji will be a Titan/ti killer, but I wouldn't be betting any money on it after the Fury X results.
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Several tech sites put up reviews through the night showing the performance of the Fury X. The 980ti handily beats it in most benchmarks and games tested, and the 980ti also doesn't need an external fan/liquid radiator setup. So much for the superiority of the new "high bandwidth memory" AMD has been working on for 7 years. I thought their 650$ Fury X was going to be a surprise for nVidia, and start the GPU wars up again. Who knows, maybe the Fiji will do so next month, but considering the $/performance value I'm seeing with the Fury X, and it being a bit of a letdown, I'm not optimistic that AMD is going to snatch any titles from nVidia back anytime soon.
Maybe I'm wrong, and Fiji will be a Titan/ti killer, but I wouldn't be betting any money on it after the Fury X results.
Furys problem is not the memory bahdwith. It has only 4Gb of vram because the first generation HBM can't handle more, combined to a slow GPU. Once the tech picks off the current cards will be left in the dust.
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The performance does not surprise me at all. The can throw 100GB of memory at it and it is not going to make any difference at less than 4K resolutions where most people are today and where the 980Ti ate the R9's lunch.
The HBM memory is doing about what I would expect, in the real world.
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It's really a shame AMD can't come up with something better than this. I remember when I was building my first x79 system in mid/late 2012, and Skuzzy you were putting together a new system around that time, and put in I believe it was a 7950GPU from AMD. I recall having a very tough time deciding on either an nVidia 680, which was the fastest GPU out then, or a few various AMD cards like the 7970 or 7950, which had equal or even better $/performance ratios as nVidia.
It's all gone to crap for them now it seems though, as even with these new offerings that have been so anticipated, have fallen flat on their faces really.
Very disappointed tbh.
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AMD's Fury X is the same price as the 980Ti, but with worse performance. And no HDMI 2.0 support (since that was previously mentioned as someone's anticipated feature).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l-Wl4_rSII#t=4
It would be fine if AMD priced it lower than Nvidia. Right now AMD is just taking people's money before the inevitable price drop. It won't take them long at all, they gotta drop the price by $50 or $100 or once the pre-order crazies are done, or else there will be no one else lined up to buy these.
Or maybe they are gambling that another bitcoin phenomenon is going to happen in their favor. I'm having trouble making sense of AMD's pricing here otherwise.
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The performance does not surprise me at all. The can throw 100GB of memory at it and it is not going to make any difference at less than 4K resolutions where most people are today and where the 980Ti ate the R9's lunch.
The HBM memory is doing about what I would expect, in the real world.
As mentioned the current generation of HBM memory is severely limited by the 4Gb max addressing issue. The tech industry has high hopes for the HBM future generations. Nvidia is going to implement it too on future cards.
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As mentioned the current generation of HBM memory is severely limited by the 4Gb max addressing issue. The tech industry has high hopes for the HBM future generations. Nvidia is going to implement it too on future cards.
Yes NVidia is going to go with HBM memory as it uses less power. It is a no-brainer for that alone and for its densities. However, it does not matter what the address size limitations are, the performance is not going to change in any user measurable manner.
AMD really screwed up by over-hyping the performance potential of HBM memory. Sure, there is one case where there is an extreme benefit, but unfortunately, that one case will never be seen in the real world.
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Yes NVidia is going to go with HBM memory as it uses less power. It is a no-brainer for that alone and for its densities. However, it does not matter what the address size limitations are, the performance is not going to change in any user measurable manner.
AMD really screwed up by over-hyping the performance potential of HBM memory. Sure, there is one case where there is an extreme benefit, but unfortunately, that one case will never be seen in the real world.
So what you're saying is that it makes no difference if you have 4Gb vs 8Gb on 4k resolutions? Or how does it not 'change performance'? Of course having only 4Gb addressable is a huge disadvantage. Once the tech matures and they go higher the old technology will be sitting in the dust.
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So what you're saying is that it makes no difference if you have 4Gb vs 8Gb on 4k resolutions? Or how does it not 'change performance'? Of course having only 4Gb addressable is a huge disadvantage. Once the tech matures and they go higher the old technology will be sitting in the dust.
No, I did not say any such thing. Allow me to highlight what I said.
The performance does not surprise me at all. They can throw 100GB of memory at it and it is not going to make any difference at less than 4K resolutions where most people are today and where the 980Ti ate the R9's lunch.
The HBM memory is doing about what I would expect, in the real world.
The cards performance was poorer at HD resolutions than the NVidia card. It remains to be seen what additional memory will do for UHD performance, as it will depend on the application being used. To suggest it would be better or worse is simply speculation, at this point.
However, AMD again screwed up their marketing by insisting this card is best at UHD. If they really believe that, then why bother with only 4GB of RAM when it needs more than that to realize its full potential at UHD resolutions? The contradiction is rather blatant.
They would have been better off waiting until they could populate the card with 6GB of RAM, or more, before claiming the performance is best at UHD resolutions.
At this point, it is not much more than an embarrassment for AMD.
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At this point, it is not much more than an embarrassment for AMD.
Pretty much how every tech/gaming site/channel is coming down as well.
I'll admit, their marketing and hype got me interested in trying their new Fury X/Fiji cards in my upcoming Skylake builds, but for reasons as stated in the last few posts, I lost any gumption I had on risking a switch from nVidia. I'm sure they lost a lot of potential customers with this recent endeavor, which IMO was nearing a bait and switch sort of deal. Maybe that's a little too harsh, but still, it's pretty disappointing to see these new cards and options from AMD fall on their face like this.
Looks like staying with nVidia for a few more years is going to be very likely, if it isn't broke, don't fix it I suppose. Again though, I was truly hoping for performance that beat the 980ti handily, and with the Fiji beat the Titan - I'd have bought at least 3 cards shortly, maybe more from AMD had they not screwed this all up.
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The sad thing is, the Fiji is not a bad card.
Two things:
1) It needs to be about $100.00 U.S. less than the 980Ti. Given it has 2GB less RAM and is slower than the 980Ti that would be about the right price point.
2) AMD should not have raised expectations with the marketing campaign they did.
Those two things would have made this a much better launch.
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Yep, agree.
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I made the switch last from a 480GTX to a 280x a year and a half ago when BF4 came out . My last AMD card before that was an X800 pro IIRC , so when i was looking for a new car I had browsed benchmarks on the 280x not really reading reviews just looking at FPS and thought it was a good bang for the buck card ....so i went with it .
It's been fine with both BF4 and AH but after finding it was a rebranded 7970 ghz edition.... i was a little upset with myself for not doing more research. Is the 280x a bad card for the money.... not imho ... but i still felt duped . Wonder how some of the 390 guys will feel when they realize its basically a repackaged 290?
It makes it tough to stick with AMD next upgrade cycle , that and the last official (non beta) driver update for the R9 series was december of 2014.
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I made the switch last from a 480GTX to a 280x a year and a half ago when BF4 came out . My last AMD card before that was an X800 pro IIRC , so when i was looking for a new car I had browsed benchmarks on the 280x not really reading reviews just looking at FPS and thought it was a good bang for the buck card ....so i went with it .
It's been fine with both BF4 and AH but after finding it was a rebranded 7970 ghz edition.... i was a little upset with myself for not doing more research. Is the 280x a bad card for the money.... not imho ... but i still felt duped . Wonder how some of the 390 guys will feel when they realize its basically a repackaged 290?
It makes it tough to stick with AMD next upgrade cycle , that and the last official (non beta) driver update for the R9 series was december of 2014.
Rebranding is common. Also Nvidia has done it in the past.