General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: SilverZ06 on May 16, 2015, 07:43:22 AM
Title: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: SilverZ06 on May 16, 2015, 07:43:22 AM
My wife and I met with some coworkers of hers last night for some drinks and her boss brought his new Tesla P85D. I asked him to take us for a ride and wow is all I can say. The instant torque of the motors throws you back into the seats and throws your stomach into your chest. You definitely get butterflies in stomach. The Tesla sprints to 60mph in just 3.1 seconds in "insane mode". If anyone has ever ridden the rock and roll roller coaster at Disney in Orlando, the car launches just slightly slower than that ride but it feels almost exactly the same. The ride sprints to 60 in 2.8 seconds if I remember correctly. I can honestly say I've never really cared for Tesla cars and considered them glorified golf carts but last night changed my opinion of them. I am very impressed (and for $120K I should be.)
It's not the hp. It's the instant torque with no wheel spin. I've driven supercharged vipers and they didn't pull as hard and as quick from a dead stop. It really is incredible. I still wouldn't buy one, but it is an amazing car.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: -ammo- on May 16, 2015, 09:49:01 AM
How do they get the car to plant all that power without wheel spin? Amazing
I've seen two of these cars in the past 2 weeks - one parked at SHAPE when I was TDY there and another in Stuttgart. The latter's driver was tempting me into doing shenanigans with him but there was too much traffic and I abstained. He did hit it from a roll and it shot like a rocket. I could tell the car is an acceleration monster.
Saw a vid on YT the other day with one of these up against a Ferrari 458. The P85 beat it out of the hole but after a few seconds, the 458 reeled him in
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Gman on May 16, 2015, 11:04:44 AM
I've driven a couple times in their first little coupe 2 seater roadster - astonishing back then, and this thing is even faster...far faster. Electric or at least electric supplementing gas motors is the future for sports cars for the next little bit. I'd buy this sedan in a flash tbh.
Look at the new Porsche and such other hybrid sports and super cars. You just can't beat that instant torque and power from an electric motor.
I'm interested in the bikes coming out as well.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Sol75 on May 18, 2015, 09:53:27 AM
I've driven a couple times in their first little coupe 2 seater roadster - astonishing back then, and this thing is even faster...far faster. Electric or at least electric supplementing gas motors is the future for sports cars for the next little bit. I'd buy this sedan in a flash tbh.
Look at the new Porsche and such other hybrid sports and super cars. You just can't beat that instant torque and power from an electric motor.
I'm interested in the bikes coming out as well.
Me too, very interested in this lineup: https://www.mission-motorcycles.com/rs (https://www.mission-motorcycles.com/rs)
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 18, 2015, 11:00:54 AM
Even a Prius will blow Tesla away on longer hauls. It has to pull an hour advantage one way to even keep up lol.
Accelerate fast a couple times, recharge for hours.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: DmonSlyr on May 18, 2015, 11:48:34 AM
Yeah that P58D is insane!! Literally!! Watch videos on YouTube of the guy changing to insane mode, they even expect it and blows them away. Also watch it vs the Lambo off the start. It crushes the lambo to almost the first quarter mile and then the lambo passes it. this car is ridiculous!!
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Widewing on May 18, 2015, 09:14:20 PM
I read a recent test comparing the Tesla to the Dodge Charger Hellcat. In a drag race, the Tesla edged out the Dodge by 0.1 seconds. This is the result of the Tesla's all wheel drive. At the end of the 1/4 mile, the Tesla was doing around 113 mph. However, the Dodge was doing 124 mph and would simply blow past the Tesla about 50 feet beyond the timing lights, coming on like a rocket. One thing to note though was that they overheated the Hellcat's tires doing dumb burnouts. With a set of 305 wide Nitto NT555R tires (street legal), the Hellcat could crack into the high 10s (as has the Challenger Hellcat).
The Tesla has a very limited top speed. The Dodge can do better than 204 mph. Now, add the Hellcat's much lower price (about half that of the Tesla) and the Dodge is an unbeatable value. What the Tesla also lacks is the awe inspiring sound created by the Dodge's blown Hemi.
Next point... They did three quarter mile runs in the Tesla, and realized that they had eaten up nearly 40% of the car's range. Sure, it had great range at normal highway speeds, but that shrinks quickly when you use full power, and the P85D already has much less range than the standard S. So, unless you can find a charging station....
Tesla fits a very limited nitch. They are remarkable cars, but they are expensive. Electric cars in general are not selling well. The initial cost and limited range coupled with low gasoline prices are resulting in tepid sales, down considerably when compared to a year ago. There will always be a market for the Tesla, but that market isn't growing at this time.
It's also not a genuine performance car. Why? Because it can't make full power for more than few minutes without the batteries overheating and defaulting the car to limp mode. Several attempts to do a hot lap around Nurburgring resulted in this occurring. This involved both the standard S and P85D on separate occasions.
I read a recent test comparing the Tesla to the Dodge Charger Hellcat. In a drag race, the Tesla edged out the Dodge by 0.1 seconds. This is the result of the Tesla's all wheel drive. At the end of the 1/4 mile, the Tesla was doing around 113 mph. However, the Dodge was doing 124 mph and would simply blow past the Tesla about 50 feet beyond the timing lights, coming on like a rocket. One thing to note though was that they overheated the Hellcat's tires doing dumb burnouts. With a set of 305 wide Nitto NT555R tires (street legal), the Hellcat could crack into the high 10s (as has the Challenger Hellcat).
The Tesla has a very limited top speed. The Dodge can do better than 204 mph.
Top speeds or performance above 0-60 has practically zero meaning in normal driving. If you blow anything away at 0-60 you practically own the streets. You need to worry about 60-200 only at the time when you are ready to worry about losing your drivers licence or even getting jail time.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Masherbrum on May 18, 2015, 11:08:41 PM
I can careless about Dodge, etc. This thread is about the Tesla and the advancements made so far, while expensive, are incredible.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: -ammo- on May 19, 2015, 11:49:07 AM
Saw a vid on YT the other day with one of these up against a Ferrari 458. The P85 beat it out of the hole but after a few seconds, the 458 reeled him in
Here's the vid. The P85 is insane from a dig but runs out of breath shortly thereafter.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: -ammo- on May 19, 2015, 11:51:27 AM
It's relevant because in the daily situations of most of the planet a Tesla owner will dominate in traffic lights etc. Theoretical top end speed is useless unless you're on autobahn or on a track.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: -ammo- on May 19, 2015, 03:03:43 PM
It's relevant because in the daily situations of most of the planet a Tesla owner will dominate in traffic lights etc. Theoretical top end speed is useless unless you're on autobahn or on a track.
By that logic you should champion a prius or civic and trumpet your statistics for saving the planet while those of us with big egos and deep pockets drive drive GT500s and Hellcats.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 19, 2015, 03:53:59 PM
By that logic you should champion a prius or civic and trumpet your statistics for saving the planet while those of us with big egos and deep pockets drive drive GT500s and Hellcats.
A Prius or a Civic can hardly beat my Merc 500 in traffic lights. You seem to have more ego than brains.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: -ammo- on May 19, 2015, 04:16:44 PM
Me too, very interested in this lineup: https://www.mission-motorcycles.com/rs (https://www.mission-motorcycles.com/rs)
I checked these out and as cool as they seem I have a few issues with it. First why a fake tank,ya the battery goes there I suspect but it would be better to have that weight down low,certainly lower than the tank. And speaking of weight,540 is somewhat excessive,no? What does your duke weigh?
The speeds and lap times seem impressive but the 0 to 60 times werent what I would have expected,I would have thought a sub 3 sec time,guess that 540lbs was showing there!
But it is cool tech and we need more of this sort of thing! Maybe an elec spyder or that polaris 3 wheeler might make a good idea.
:salute
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 19, 2015, 08:51:00 PM
Forgot which car magazine did the testing a week or so ago but they ran a Telsa on a track at 125mph and the battery only lasted 12 minutes before the car's software started to power down the car because of battery over heating.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Widewing on May 19, 2015, 09:09:29 PM
Top speeds or performance above 0-60 has practically zero meaning in normal driving. If you blow anything away at 0-60 you practically own the streets. You need to worry about 60-200 only at the time when you are ready to worry about losing your drivers licence or even getting jail time.
As a former road racer, 0-60 means little to me.... I don't much care about blowing away cars from stop lights. Anybody can bury his foot and go. I've had my quick cars. I've owned exceptionally quick bikes as well. The fun wasn't beating others from a red light, it was in carving up winding roads and weekend track days. I had more fun with a 90 hp MG Midget than I did with our 300ZX, or Mustang LX. The roads here are full of fast cars driven by people who haven't a clue how to enjoy them. If they're not profiling, they're hot-dogging at stop lights or scaring the hell out of themselves on highway off ramps.
I think that the Tesla is amazing technology. It's rocket quick from a dead stop. Yet, it weighs more than 5000 lbs, and doesn't lend itself to much full power antics. For considerably less than a Tesla S P85D, you can buy a Hellcat AND a Camaro ZL1 and have two cars that are far more entertaining to drive. Or, you could drop a very large sum on a Tesla, and watch the batteries overheat after a few minutes of using full power.... Until there's a quantum leap in battery technology, you'll have the quickest car on the road for less than 8 minutes...
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: BoilerDown on May 20, 2015, 01:11:47 AM
OP is impressed by instant acceleration, then people jump in to criticize low endurance and top speed. Where did anyone claim anything about top speed or it not being a battery-powered car that can run well over the speed limit for hours?
These aren't valid criticisms of the Telsa IMO.
Btw, I'm pretty sure if you want to run a certain distance as fast as possible so that the battery lasts just barely long enough to make it and then still have enough juice to crawl back to a charging station, you can program that in and have it tell you what speed to run.
Instead of just flooring it and hoping for the best, you can understand your tool and use it effectively.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: guncrasher on May 20, 2015, 06:29:25 AM
It's relevant because in the daily situations of most of the planet a Tesla owner will dominate in traffic lights etc. Theoretical top end speed is useless unless you're on autobahn or on a track.
it would only dominate if the batteries are at full charge. otherwise the kid on the sidewalk with a skateboard will be faster.
theoretically top speed only means something if you have gas or battery power or in some cases a good foot to push your skateboard.
semp
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 21, 2015, 01:21:25 AM
I doubt many Tesla owners would take them to a road race though. But city traffic lights and humiliating a sports car driver... very likely.
No, Tesla's won't be racing... Can't run more than a couple of laps before it defaults to limp mode.... Maybe they could build a Formula E car.... You know, open wheeled golf cart racing.
Electric cars are boring, no matter how fast. Racing without the sound is something I couldn't tolerate. Slot cars, really. Give me an old Ferrari P3 or 7 liter Chaparral 2F at full chat any day.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Wolfala on May 21, 2015, 06:40:52 PM
WW,
I have a 2013 Audi S4 stock. Are many folks modifying the supercharger belts for higher boost on the track circuit?
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 21, 2015, 07:15:45 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LoFVO31CbE0
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Dragon on May 21, 2015, 07:52:24 PM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Masherbrum on May 21, 2015, 08:09:19 PM
I have a 2013 Audi S4 stock. Are many folks modifying the supercharger belts for higher boost on the track circuit?
I wouldn't know, I'm afraid. I haven't done a track day in a long time. When we had Bridgehampton race circuit just a short drive away, you'd find a little of everything running touring schools and time trials. However, Bridgehampton is gone. Due to Southampton Township refusing to issue the required permits to rebuild it onto a world class facility. It seems the wealthy don't mind the sound of helicopters, landscape mowers and leaf blowers, but race cars were too noisy. The owner built a top-notch golf course instead, and to the dismay of the rich snobs, opened it to the general public. He did leave the main straight intact, with its famous Chevron bridge.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: BaDkaRmA158Th on May 21, 2015, 11:33:03 PM
You humans have been held back by old technology for far too long.
There was electric motors long before any efficient gas engine.
:noid
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: DREDIOCK on May 22, 2015, 12:22:18 AM
It's relevant because in the daily situations of most of the planet a Tesla owner will dominate in traffic lights etc. Theoretical top end speed is useless unless you're on autobahn or on a track.
Having good acceleration is good to have at traffic lights. Having great acceleration is good and more important to have when you are already moving.
If you arent on a racetrack from a dead stop acceleration is really only good for jollies and if you want to pop out and change lanes to get in front of the guy along side of you. That is if you are lucky enough to be the first at the light
How does it accelerate from say 40 or 50 MPH? Acceleration is more important in passing situations when you are already moving. Ive also been able to accelerate myself out of problem/dangerous situations where braking (another important feature) or doing nothing and maintaining my current speed would have meant disaster.
Jumping from zero to 60 may be wow cool. But being able to jump from 50 to 70 is far more useful
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Ack-Ack on May 22, 2015, 02:19:34 AM
How does it accelerate from say 40 or 50 MPH? Acceleration is more important in passing situations when you are already moving. Ive also been able to accelerate myself out of problem/dangerous situations where braking (another important feature) or doing nothing and maintaining my current speed would have meant disaster.
Jumping from zero to 60 may be wow cool. But being able to jump from 50 to 70 is far more useful
I haven't driven one personally but since Tesla doesn't have a gearbox it has rubber band like torque all the way. Whenever you press the pedal, stuff happens instantly. Even if a top end Ferrari manages to blow it into dust past 100mph it won't mean that a Tesla won't be way faster than any average car still at that speed.
What I'm mostly amazed of actually is that Tesla is the most popular new car purchase in Norway at the moment. Usually electric cars suffer horribly from cold climate, they can lose up to 50% battery capacity from the get go. Perhaps they have heated battery packs.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: SilverZ06 on May 22, 2015, 09:07:59 AM
See Rule #4
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: MrRiplEy[H] on May 22, 2015, 11:37:53 AM
Top speeds or performance above 0-60 has practically zero meaning in normal driving. If you blow anything away at 0-60 you practically own the streets. You need to worry about 60-200 only at the time when you are ready to worry about losing your drivers licence or even getting jail time.
... If you get caught. In many rural US towns, when you pass a cop at night, it is almost guaranteed that you won't see another that cop that night. There's often only one cruiser on duty, or up north, none.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Widewing on May 22, 2015, 03:42:21 PM
Golly-geeit, that was another Thing I was Going To Do Someday.
That and flying lessons.
*sigh*
Need another gig I guess.
There's many good racing schools where you can learn in a Formula Ford (on street legal tires, generally). I attended the Skip Barber school back in 1979 at Lime Rock. A good place to find out if you really want to invest in the expense of buying, maintaining, preparing and transporting a race car. That's an advantage for vintage racing. You don't need to invest in the latest chassis, nor buy the best engines. Much less expensive, but still fun and reasonably competitive.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Masherbrum on May 22, 2015, 06:00:46 PM
OP is impressed by instant acceleration, then people jump in to criticize low endurance and top speed. Where did anyone claim anything about top speed or it not being a battery-powered car that can run well over the speed limit for hours?
These aren't valid criticisms of the Telsa IMO.
Btw, I'm pretty sure if you want to run a certain distance as fast as possible so that the battery lasts just barely long enough to make it and then still have enough juice to crawl back to a charging station, you can program that in and have it tell you what speed to run.
Instead of just flooring it and hoping for the best, you can understand your tool and use it effectively.
I have asked the same thing and realize the same thing has happened for 10+ years here.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: ink on May 22, 2015, 06:01:07 PM
Yep because as I said, someone talking about racing on street is usually one.
dont wanna get into a pissin match and we all think different...but when I assume something about someone and call him a disrespectful name....I think it would be respectful to say hey..."sorry man I said that about ya, hope there is no hard feelings"
instead of trying defend what I said.
:cheers:
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: PR3D4TOR on May 29, 2015, 04:36:43 PM
OK, I'm done making fun of the silly little euroboxes. :confused:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGqltPXF9eg
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Shuffler on May 30, 2015, 12:24:29 AM
Electric cars have a long way to go before they could be mainstream.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Shuffler on May 30, 2015, 12:27:29 AM
It's relevant because in the daily situations of most of the planet a Tesla owner will dominate in traffic lights etc. Theoretical top end speed is useless unless you're on autobahn or on a track.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: BoilerDown on July 11, 2018, 05:38:33 PM
Btw, I'm pretty sure if you want to run a certain distance as fast as possible so that the battery lasts just barely long enough to make it and then still have enough juice to crawl back to a charging station, you can program that in and have it tell you what speed to run.
Follow-up on this old comment I made:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nkqMZBR-ak
So essentially, the gear-shifting part of racing is taken out, but the battery heat aspect is put in. A bit of Battletech, as it were. The cars with the best cooling and the drivers who manage the heat the best, will win. Sure you can go full blast, but should you? How fast can you sustain? That's EV racing.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Vulcan on July 11, 2018, 06:27:39 PM
Electric cars have a long way to go before they could be mainstream.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk
The biggest problem is energy generation imho. Here in NZ 85% of our generation comes from renewables (hydro, wind, thermal). The rest comes old school coal burners. If we switched out petrol/diesel fleets to EV then we'd have to more than double our electrical generation... using coal. Which kind of defeats the purpose of 'zero emissions'.
We need a cheap, safe, clean method of electrical generation before EVs can become mainstream. Right now anytime I meet a smug EV owner I call their cars "coal powered"... :)
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: BoilerDown on July 12, 2018, 11:13:15 AM
Even the dirtiest coal-powered electricity charged EV is much cleaner than it would be if it were replaced by an internal combustion engine. So you'd still come out ahead. What's more, that same EV will get cleaner and cleaner over time, as the dirty power is replaced by cleaner power. No gas vehicle can make that claim.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Mister Fork on July 12, 2018, 11:30:43 AM
INteresting opinion on a 3 year old topic bruh. Boiler - you're forgetting that the amount of emissions used to create a EV from all the rare-earth minerals for the electrical systems and lithium batteries is the same as running a Hummer for 18 years. Yes, that beast. After 18 years, you break even on CO2 and environmental harm from an EV compared to a domestic large vehicle. Not to mention, most of the EV components are not recyclable - they'll end up in a landfill where most car parts get melted down and reused in new cars.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Shuffler on July 12, 2018, 11:32:41 AM
Even the dirtiest coal-powered electricity charged EV is much cleaner than it would be if it were replaced by an internal combustion engine. So you'd still come out ahead. What's more, that same EV will get cleaner and cleaner over time, as the dirty power is replaced by cleaner power. No gas vehicle can make that claim.
Diesels are actually pretty clean.
Volcano in Hawaii puked more co2 yesterday than mankind has since we have been on this planet.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Mister Fork on July 12, 2018, 12:05:41 PM
Volcano in Hawaii puked more co2 yesterday than mankind has since we have been on this planet.
That has been debunked - it's equi to a day-and-a-half of a coal plant. It's emitting a tonne of gasses - but not THAT much. Still not great for locals when mixed with volcanic UFP (ultra-fine particles of sharp volcanic ash). Tears up the lungs pretty good.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: BoilerDown on July 12, 2018, 02:25:42 PM
INteresting opinion on a 3 year old topic bruh. Boiler - you're forgetting that the amount of emissions used to create a EV from all the rare-earth minerals for the electrical systems and lithium batteries is the same as running a Hummer for 18 years. Yes, that beast. After 18 years, you break even on CO2 and environmental harm from an EV compared to a domestic large vehicle. Not to mention, most of the EV components are not recyclable - they'll end up in a landfill where most car parts get melted down and reused in new cars.
You quoted a lot of specific numbers there, care to reveal where you obtained them?
I don't believe any of it, by the way. We can probably agree that plastic, aluminum and steel are all recyclable, so lets leave the majority of the car out of this, it is recyclable.
The majority of the rest is the battery, and Tesla recycles them (this blog post is from 2011, so they've been at it for at least 7 years): https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program . The batteries have also been shown to have had remarkably low degradation, so they'll have a usable amount of charge for decades, not a half-decade like people feared based on early Leafs. https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/16/tesla-battery-packs-live-longer
And what rare-earth minerals are in EVs? Cobalt? Cobalt isn't a rare-earth element. And Telsa uses less Cobalt in its batteries than anyone else, and is planning to decrease that amount to zero going forwards. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-02/tesla-supercharging-its-model-3-means-less-cobalt-more-nickel
In the motors? The Model S (which this thread is about) uses an Induction Motor, which means it doesn't use a (rare earth) magnet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_motor . Not that rare earth magnets are actually bad anyways: https://www.duramag.com/techtalk/rare-earth-magnets-2/why-are-samarium-cobalt-and-neodymium-magnets-called-rare-earth-magnets
So what Rare Earths are you even talking about?
For that matter, is there anything to substantiate anything in your post, at all?
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Skuzzy on July 12, 2018, 02:37:26 PM
Bah, they can keep EV's. I have seen two dead ones on the freeway due to stop and go traffic issues. They simply ran down. Nothing they could do. Charging stations are hit and miss, at best, when you are on the open (well,....they are not really ever open around here) road.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: MiloMorai on July 12, 2018, 03:26:29 PM
Way back in the day petrol stations were few and far between.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: BoilerDown on July 12, 2018, 04:26:39 PM
Air conditioning can run anyone out of... mileage, gas or electric. That said, EVs get most efficient at slower speeds, because air resistance goes up by the square of velocity. So they're fundamentally more tolerant of stop and go traffic, not less. The overhead of air conditioning (or heat in winter to a lesser degree) can be a problem for smaller battery EVs that have to dip into their reserves unexpected.
Here's a few charts most people here can appreciate: http://www.solarjourneyusa.com/EVdistanceAnalysis5.php
The best thing about an EV is arguably the ability to leave home with a full "tank" every day. No need to "fill up" unless you're going on (and in the middle of) a long trip.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Shuffler on July 12, 2018, 04:43:52 PM
That has been debunked - it's equi to a day-and-a-half of a coal plant. It's emitting a tonne of gasses - but not THAT much. Still not great for locals when mixed with volcanic UFP (ultra-fine particles of sharp volcanic ash). Tears up the lungs pretty good.
In CO2 true.... 200 million tons compared to 24 billion per year. So man is better for plants and trees than the volcanoes. Other than the poisonous gasses around some volcanoes....
Of course I have a good friend who emits poisonous gases from time to time.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Shuffler on July 12, 2018, 04:45:52 PM
Bah, they can keep EV's. I have seen two dead ones on the freeway due to stop and go traffic issues. They simply ran down. Nothing they could do. Charging stations are hit and miss, at best, when you are on the open (well,....they are not really ever open around here) road.
Of the two charging stations that I am aware of, I have never seen either of them in use.
Trains make sense as they are like the old subs... diesel electric. Cars and trucks make little sense.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Mister Fork on July 12, 2018, 05:02:32 PM
You quoted a lot of specific numbers there, care to reveal where you obtained them?
I don't believe any of it, by the way. We can probably agree that plastic, aluminum and steel are all recyclable, so lets leave the majority of the car out of this, it is recyclable.
The majority of the rest is the battery, and Tesla recycles them (this blog post is from 2011, so they've been at it for at least 7 years): https://www.tesla.com/en_GB/blog/teslas-closed-loop-battery-recycling-program . The batteries have also been shown to have had remarkably low degradation, so they'll have a usable amount of charge for decades, not a half-decade like people feared based on early Leafs. https://www.engadget.com/2018/04/16/tesla-battery-packs-live-longer
And what rare-earth minerals are in EVs? Cobalt? Cobalt isn't a rare-earth element. And Telsa uses less Cobalt in its batteries than anyone else, and is planning to decrease that amount to zero going forwards. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-05-02/tesla-supercharging-its-model-3-means-less-cobalt-more-nickel
In the motors? The Model S (which this thread is about) uses an Induction Motor, which means it doesn't use a (rare earth) magnet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induction_motor . Not that rare earth magnets are actually bad anyways: https://www.duramag.com/techtalk/rare-earth-magnets-2/why-are-samarium-cobalt-and-neodymium-magnets-called-rare-earth-magnets
So what Rare Earths are you even talking about?
For that matter, is there anything to substantiate anything in your post, at all?
I could ask you for the same on your side - University study on a EV is NOT 0% emissions ->Here (http://www.umich.edu/~umtriswt/PDF/SWT-2017-18_Abstract_English.pdf). This is just to DRIVE a EV - not talking about what's required to make it. So, yes, your EV car MAY get up to 40-55MPG on the emission side. Which is great, except that my Honda Civic got that 25 years ago on a morning commute. And it keeps on getting better with most petrol vehicles getting close to zero-emissions.
And here's the kicker about all the EV and green stuff.. :old:
It usually means I have to BUY something new...so it feeds the infinite consumerist model - and everyone forgets we live on a planet with finite resources. :bhead
And that - isn't very green is it? :rolleyes:
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Vulcan on July 12, 2018, 05:57:24 PM
Even the dirtiest coal-powered electricity charged EV is much cleaner than it would be if it were replaced by an internal combustion engine. So you'd still come out ahead. What's more, that same EV will get cleaner and cleaner over time, as the dirty power is replaced by cleaner power. No gas vehicle can make that claim.
The link posted by Mister Fork would indicate otherwise.
[qupte]on the other extreme are Botswana and Gibraltar (which generate 100% of their electricity from coal and oil), each with 29.0 MPGghg (8.1 L/100 km)[/quote]
Which is fairly close to my 2.2l diesel SUV.
And have a read here: https://www.wired.com/2016/03/teslas-electric-cars-might-not-green-think/
So EVs are not all rosey. The fundamental issue is we need a clean green cheap energy source. At the moment the lack of that degrades the value of EVs for the environment. I'm not saying EVs are bad, I'd buy one at the drop of a hat if there was the appropriate energy solution and they got their range sorted out.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: icepac on July 12, 2018, 07:12:55 PM
In order to shift totally to electric cars, you would need the capacity to charge them.
Sure, nothing is cheaper than Mains electricity but imagine your country having dads arrive home at 5:30pm and plugging in a near dead model S into a 11kw charger.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: puller on July 12, 2018, 07:49:20 PM
In order to shift totally to electric cars, you would need the capacity to charge them.
Sure, nothing is cheaper than Mains electricity but imagine your country having dads arrive home at 5:30pm and plugging in a near dead model S into a 11kw charger.
The capacity is there now. If your commute is only 30 minutes, as your post implies, then you've barely drained the battery at all. And you can easily have it charge when the rates drop if you choose.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: save on July 13, 2018, 02:02:23 AM
One big thing about electric cars, if you have really cold winters, use heating, and headlights on, the range can go down to 1/3rd- 1/4th of the normal range.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Skuzzy on July 13, 2018, 06:43:02 AM
The capacity is there now. If your commute is only 30 minutes, as your post implies, then you've barely drained the battery at all. And you can easily have it charge when the rates drop if you choose.
If everyone had an EV the electric grid of the U.S. would collapse. We are barely able to maintain the grid in many parts of the U.S., during the summer months, right now. Add a few million people plugging in their cars, within hours of each other, and bad things will happen.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Oldman731 on July 13, 2018, 07:49:25 AM
If everyone had an EV the electric grid of the U.S. would collapse. We are barely able to maintain the grid in many parts of the U.S., during the summer months, right now. Add a few million people plugging in their cars, within hours of each other, and bad things will happen.
Just build some more coal-fueled generation stations. Problem solved!
- oldman
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: BoilerDown on July 13, 2018, 09:12:05 AM
Norway has a huge adoption rate right now, and after 2025 they won't even sell non-EVs there (presumably just cars as truck EVs don't exist much yet). Their electrical grid isn't failing. Oh yeah its a cold weather climate there too and they seem to like the cars.
"Even if every single one of our 2.6m personal cars in Norway were electric, charging them would still take up only 5-6% of our total electricity requirements, so the proportion globally is less than people often imagine."
10% of the cars on the road in Norway are EVs now, although the adoption rate is over 50%. It takes time for them to replace their fleet, because as pointed out, its worse to replace a car that doesn't need replacing.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Mister Fork on July 13, 2018, 09:15:09 AM
Norway has a huge adoption rate right now, and after 2025 they won't even sell non-EVs there (presumably just cars as truck EVs don't exist much yet). Their electrical grid isn't failing. Oh yeah its a cold weather climate there too and they seem to like the cars.
....and Norway has a huge fiscal surplus and could afford to build the infrastructure to make it possible. Heck, Norway could build most of Europe's infrastructure for EV's and still have money left over to build a Death Star. With a tractor beam. And a nice sky garden - off the chancellors chambers of course.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Meatwad on July 13, 2018, 09:51:49 AM
Norway is the future :old:
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: JimmyD3 on July 13, 2018, 09:54:23 AM
I thought Norway had one of the highest tax rates in the world. checked Google;
"Norway is one of the most heavily taxed countries in the world with a total tax burden of roughly 45% of GDP– almost 4x Hong Kong and nearly twice the US. VAT here is a whopping 25%. Personal income tax rates border 55%. Corporate profits tax ranges from 28% to as high as 78%."
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Mister Fork on July 13, 2018, 01:08:39 PM
I thought Norway had one of the highest tax rates in the world. checked Google;
"Norway is one of the most heavily taxed countries in the world with a total tax burden of roughly 45% of GDP– almost 4x Hong Kong and nearly twice the US. VAT here is a whopping 25%. Personal income tax rates border 55%. Corporate profits tax ranges from 28% to as high as 78%."
...and yet it's citizens have one of the longest lifespans, high quality of life, report high in happiness, kids always score top ten in the world for education, they have universal health care, low crime rates, and lots of blondes. I just thought I throw that last one in there. Cause...well... they do.
Their 1 TRILLION USD slush fund...which means around $200'000 USD fund per citizen for the future... DEATH STAR money... just saying...
...what were we talking about before?
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Skuzzy on July 13, 2018, 03:24:30 PM
Norway is not the U.S. In many parts of the U.S. the grid is struggling to keep up with demand and has been in that shape for a few years now. California, alone, has been hit with rolling brown-outs at least twice this year with more on the way.
That is the future of the U.S. power grid if the demand for electricity continues to increase at the rate it is now.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: morfiend on July 13, 2018, 04:04:33 PM
EV's are not new,check back into the 20's and you will find all sorts of EVs!
Tesla,the man not the car maker was able to convert a Pierce Arrow to electric and used wireless power to travel from New York to Michigan. Of course the powers that be said there was no way to make money off free power so it was shelved.
The power grid in the US may not be able to support this ATM but the real question is Why?
WWe could have real hybred cars,dual battery packs and a small diesel engine to power the onboard generator,Sweden does this now with Buses and achieve something like 160 miles per gallon while moving 40 plus people. Absolutely no reason why we couldnt do the same thing with person transportation.
Ya I know no one likes change and an EV doesnt have the sound of a 400hp V8 but you could have the stereo play the sounds of any engine you like.... :devil
Soon people will be bragging about how fast their 85KW motor will go!
:salute
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Vulcan on July 13, 2018, 06:05:19 PM
The power grid in the US may not be able to support this ATM but the real question is Why?
Because nobody wants more nuclear power - after the japan quake they are all scared of it. Hydro is expensive and big to build, and though it is zero emissions it has a huge impact on the environment. Wind needs the right place with constant wind within a required speed range - and a lot of room, and it still has an environmental impact. Solar needs lots of sun and lots of room.
Right now power generation is the big bottleneck, followed up by EV recharging stations and recharging time.
We need a clean cheap method of generation, and better range on EVs.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: BoilerDown on July 13, 2018, 11:48:01 PM
Well good thing fusion power plants are only 20 years away. Just like every year for the past 30 years.
But seriously, most new power is going to be Wind and Solar with battery storage. That ship has sailed, its already happening.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: Shuffler on July 14, 2018, 05:34:42 AM
I often pull my RV, 6 horse trailer, floats......
More food for thought. It is dangerous enough to put some people behind the wheel of a 2500 lb. car while eating, putting on makeup, talking on phone. Now you want to put them behind the wheel of a 5000 pound car and make them think they can read the newspaper.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: BuckShot on July 14, 2018, 09:17:20 AM
The gas that Priuses save while dawdling down the highway, is probably equal to what I burn while trying to get around them.
Title: Re: Got the opportunity to ride in a Tesla P85D last night.
Post by: BoilerDown on July 14, 2018, 11:13:19 AM